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MFL - Position Updates 3/6 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter saintfool
- Start date
Tick
Footballguy
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/fantrax/the-individual-defensive-podcast probably - search your podcast app, everyone uses something different.
Tick
Footballguy
Some other podcast predicted this - I don't recall whether it was Read & React IDP Podcast or IDP Guys' Podcast. They described a type of front I don't really understand that both the Rams and the Panthers use, and based on Aaron Donald being classified as a DT, the predicted Addison would be a DE... something like one of the OLBs playing essentially as a DE, therefore changing the classification from:
DE-NT-DE-OLB
...to
DE-DT-DT-DE
Again, this isn't anything I'm trying to defend, just mentioning things I head on IDP podcasts.
northern exposure
Footballguy
Tick
Footballguy
I can't find any updates for today. Do you have a link?
EDIT: https://www.fantasysharks.com/apps/bert/players/depth_chart.php
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trader jake
Footballguy
More than anything MFL needs to add an EDGE positional designation so ff owners can amend their starting positions and get off the DE/OLB swings in value.
Some leagues use DT & DE and some use CB & S...so why not EDGE? Give leagues the option to use or not use the positional designation.
Some leagues use DT & DE and some use CB & S...so why not EDGE? Give leagues the option to use or not use the positional designation.
tripp
Footballguy
I just had an exchange with Davenport (@idpsharks). I asked why Christian Miller is left an LB when he backs up DE Irvin and has similar preseason snap alignments. The response was basically, "welp, I inherited all these designations; we'll get 'em next year; can't change them all."
I don't get it. Why not "change them all?" He got the gig in the spring. If he thought Breeze was doing it wrong (which he wrote RE Donald), why not roll out all the changes in July and prepare to adjust for surprises in preseason?
Instead, we have three cherry picked notable changes and great uncertainty and unpredictability going forward.
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
While I agree, I also think it's clear MFL doesn't know shame/pride or they wouldn't be using html1 as the site platform.
tripp
Footballguy
I'm in the middle of a debate in one of my leagues. I argue Clowney's value goes down if he becomes a dolphin. Mind you, he's already been classified a DE on MFL. First, he'd have no respectable bookend and fewer pass-rush opportunities on a bad Miami team than in Houston. But also this: I have a theory that 3-4 OLBs classified as DE (of which there are now a handful) could have a built-in advantage in leagues that lean tackle-heavy. I'd expect these OLBs to have more coverage and in-the-box tackle opportunities than traditional 4-3 ends (and perhaps LEOs as well, but to a lesser extent). Thoughts?
matttyl
Footballguy
Do we have an official list anywhere. I know of I think 3 or 4.
On Clowney, if he stays an OLB designated as a DL in a 3-4 defense, that's better for him than a traditional DE in a 4-3.
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
are the Dolphins a 3-4 def?
uazwildcats
Footballguy
tripp
Footballguy
We'd have to make a list, I reckon. MFL is allowing the designations to atrophy. Jets, Falcons, and Bucs aren't getting updated to reflect scheme changes. Some, but not all Panthers' and Falcons' OLBs are classified DE. Same was true in Arizona until Andre Branch got cut. The Jets are going the opposite way, so what little value any of their IDPs had just about kaput. Henry Anderson is transitioning from a 3-4 end to a 4-3 end, which the Colts didn't think he could do in their system. Leonard Williams might have been interesting if changed to DT, but Fantasy Sharks is leaving most NYJ, CAR, ATL, and TB vets with their 2018 designations and leaving rookies with apparently whatever designation they received based on their draft profiles (which can conflict with the vets they back up). So, off the top of my head, lining up as starting OLBs with DE tags: Mario Addison, Brian Burns, Vic Beasley, Takk McKinley, and Bruce Irvin, in addition to Clowney. In TB, Noah Spence WAS changed to LB but EDGEs Carl Nassib and JPP were not (although they won't play a high number of snaps behind the line of scrimmage anyway). Then of course there are all the reserves behind these guys, some of which are good deep-dive prospects.
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
they just changed it to DE a couple weeks ago didn't they?
According to the fantasy sharks Texans depth chart (which is what MFL uses now IIRC) he is a DE
https://www.fantasysharks.com/apps/bert/players/depth_chart.php?TeamID=13
tripp
Footballguy
No, MFL just changed him to DE from LB a earlier this month. This has to do with the change in responsibility from Rotoworld to Fantasy Sharks regarding position designations. Gary Davenport of Fantasy Sharks wrote on the site in April that Clowney was classified wrong. Didn't explain specifically why, or how he was unique from every other 3-4 OLB. Similar is true for Aaron Donald. Changed to DT a couple weeks ago. No explanation, just a tweet that Donald should have never been changed to DE in the first place (when Wade Phillips brought 3-4 to LA).
drewd_21
Footballguy
The following player position changes will be made on Friday, August 23rd, to bring our player database up-to-date with the FantasySharks.com depth charts:
ATL: Damontae Kazee from S to CB
DEN: Kareem Jackson from CB to S
GB : Rashan Gary from DE to LB
IND: Tyquan Lewis from DE to DT
JAX: Datone Jones from DT to DE
LAR: Aaron Donald from DE to DT
MIA: Bobby McCain from CB to S
MIA: Robert Nkemdiche from DE to DT
A bit late but worth posting...
ATL: Damontae Kazee from S to CB
DEN: Kareem Jackson from CB to S
GB : Rashan Gary from DE to LB
IND: Tyquan Lewis from DE to DT
JAX: Datone Jones from DT to DE
LAR: Aaron Donald from DE to DT
MIA: Bobby McCain from CB to S
MIA: Robert Nkemdiche from DE to DT
A bit late but worth posting...
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tripp
Footballguy
Now that rosters have been trimmed, this list is pretty manageable. Clowney is of course now a 4-3 end.
These are the OLBs with DE tags in MFL:
Vic Beasley ATL
Talk McKinley ATL
Steven Means* ATL
Mario Addison CAR
Brian Burns CAR
Marquis Haynes CAR
Bruce Irvin? CAR
Austin Bryant* DET
Jacob Martin* HOU
Shilique Calhoun NEP**
Derek Rivers NEP**
John Simon NEP**
Chase Winovich NEP**
Here are 3-4 EDGEs lining up predominantly as LEO/REO vs. OLB, that MFL is leaving DE because that's what they were last year or were classified during the NFL draft:
Charles Omenihu HOU
Oshane Ximenes NYG
Carl Nassib TBB
Jason Pierre-Paul* TBB
*Can't confirm on PFF since they didn't play in preseason with current team.
**PFF snap alignments for all Pats' D-ends and LBs are wonky. Van Noy an EDGE, Bennett a DI.
? Bruce Irvin doesn't appear in Fantasy Sharks' detailed depth chart at all, but he's still on the Panthers' roster, per Panthers.com.
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Ashem
Footballguy
Final Player Position Updates (Published Tue Sep 3 11:33:19 p.m. ET 2019)
The following player position changes will be made on Wednesday, September 4th, to bring our player database up-to-date with the FantasySharks.com depth charts:
ARI: Jalen Thompson from S to CB
ARI: Charles Washington from S to CB
BAL: Michael Pierce from DE to DT
DAL: Kerry Hyder from DT to DE
MIN: Hercules Mata'afa from LB to DT
TB : Anthony Nelson from DE to LB
The following player position changes will be made on Wednesday, September 4th, to bring our player database up-to-date with the FantasySharks.com depth charts:
ARI: Jalen Thompson from S to CB
ARI: Charles Washington from S to CB
BAL: Michael Pierce from DE to DT
DAL: Kerry Hyder from DT to DE
MIN: Hercules Mata'afa from LB to DT
TB : Anthony Nelson from DE to LB
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Tick
Footballguy
tripp
Footballguy
Impossible to know at this point. Bunch of teams with guys designated incorrectly (Panthers, Bucs, Jets, Texans plus a few rookies here and there), and a bunch of coaches on the hot seat (Falcons, Browns, Bengals, Bears, Jags, Giants, Cowboys, Lions). (I wrote about this a couple weeks ago at DFF.) The player I'm most worried about is Jags 'DE' Josh Allen. Gary Davenport threatened to switch him to OLB even tho he plays in a 4-3. Before the Jags' bye, he played mostly DE. But since the Week 9 bye, he's lined up at OLB more often (per ProFootballFocus).
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tripp
Footballguy
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
I'm holding Allen. Ngakoue was a 3rd round pick so no 5th year option. He could be tagged but they may let him go. Campbell is old and having trouble staying off the injury reports and his contract expires 2020. The biggest concern I have is not Davenport, it's coaching change.
MAC_32
Footballguy
The whole organization is about to get nuked. No one has any idea who the coaching staff will be, let alone what scheme they will run and how they intend to utilize Allen.
Tick
Footballguy
So Washington is shifting back to 4-3 under Del Rio. Who becomes the DEs - the existing 3-4 DEs or the existing 3-4 OLBs? Currently: OLB Sweat - DE Allen - DT Payne - DE Ioannidis - OLB Anderson
Allen and Ioannidis were pretty good this season, Sweat’s a first rounder... I don’t know enough about their skill sets to guess at how they translate to a 4-3.
Allen and Ioannidis were pretty good this season, Sweat’s a first rounder... I don’t know enough about their skill sets to guess at how they translate to a 4-3.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
Sweat has a 4-3 DE skillset. I'm skeptical how well he will fit personality wise with Rivera/Del Rio though. It'll either boom or bust, no real in between.
tripp
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/DynastyTripp/status/1212415320989818880
I'm digging into this. The SOLB (Sweat) and WOLB (Kerrigan or Young) become SDE and WDE simply enough. Three IDL positions go down to two.
I'm digging into this. The SOLB (Sweat) and WOLB (Kerrigan or Young) become SDE and WDE simply enough. Three IDL positions go down to two.
tripp
Footballguy
Tick
Footballguy
He says they'll play nickel 70% of the time, but most teams drop a LB, not a DL, when they go to a nickel... it probably wouldn't affect the DEs.tripp said:
Allen and Ioannidis get hosed in this switch.
It always seems like each offseason, there are two teams switching back and forth between a 4-3 and a 3-4 who need to have a conversation... I'll trade you my small OLBs for your slow DEs.
I actually think Allen will be ok especially if they switch him to DT. I think he will become another viable DT option however if he remains at DE classification but bumps inside that will definitely hurt his value.
football fan
Footballguy
That is something I am attempting to figure out is what position Chase Young plays in the NFL.
In my league each IDP position has it's own scoring rules, so Young is gold at DE, and not so desirable at LB (Khali Mack is a great example of the same situation as DLs get more points per tackle than LBs).
I know it's the off-season, any sources out there with information on this subject?
In my league each IDP position has it's own scoring rules, so Young is gold at DE, and not so desirable at LB (Khali Mack is a great example of the same situation as DLs get more points per tackle than LBs).
I know it's the off-season, any sources out there with information on this subject?
tripp
Footballguy
For rookies? Scouting profiles, really. I like the write-ups Lance Zierlein and company put on NFL.com. Then, at the combine in February, prospects will be grouped by position (in broad groups tho). As long as your rookie draft is after the NFL draft, you can safely wait until May to see their position. Just gotta know the scheme of the team that drafts them. Caveat there is that MFL (Fantasy Sharks) neglected to update a bunch of rookies after the draft. They were left with their combine position designation, I guess. Most of them favorable for fantasy purposes. They stand to be corrected this offseason tho. That'll be an unpleasant surprise for IDP gamers.
Tick
Footballguy
It all just depends on who drafts him. But yeah, getting an OLB who's misclassified as a DE is always a cheat code. This year that was Clowney and Addison. I noticed last offseason that FBG started listing some players as Edge or OLB/DE, which was nice - if they have projections, it helps see how the players map if you start to suspect they'll be misclassified.
A good person to follow is Gary Davenport from IDP Sharks, since he's now the person who sets the MyFantasyLeague positions. Listening to his podcast last offseason tipped me off to draft Clowney when he was an LB, knowing he was very likely to be switched to DE.
football fan
Footballguy
Thanks!Tick said:
He looked good down the stretch. In big play scoring I think he will be a cheap upside guy. I like it.I just picked up Montez Sweat in a bottom-of-the-roster trade.
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football fan
Footballguy
Seven sacks in his rookie year along with 31 tackles is a sign of positive things to come.
If Chase Young is added to the other edge, Sweat could be a nice player to have.
If Chase Young is added to the other edge, Sweat could be a nice player to have.
drewd_21
Footballguy
The following player position changes will be made on Tuesday, April 7th, to bring our player database up-to-date with the FantasySharks.com depth charts:
ARI: Charles Washington from CB to S
ARI: Jalen Thompson from CB to S
ARI: Trevon Coley from DT to DE
ARI: Caraun Reid from DT to DE
ARI: Jordan Phillips from DT to DE
ATL: Dante Fowler from LB to DE
ATL: Kemal Ishmael from LB to S
BAL: Jihad Ward from DT to DE
BUF: Leterrius Walton from DE to DT
CAR: Zach Kerr from DE to DT
CAR: Juston Burris from CB to S
CAR: Stacy McGee from DE to DT
CHI: Robert Quinn from DE to LB
CHI: Abdullah Anderson from DT to DE
CIN: Trayvon Henderson from S to CB
DEN: Shelby Harris from DT to DE
DEN: Dre'Mont Jones from DT to DE
DEN: Deyon Sizer from DT to DE
DET: Frank Herron from DT to DE
GB : Tyler Lancaster from DT to DE
GB : Will Redmond from CB to S
GB : Tramon Williams from S to CB
HOU: Jake Martin from DE to LB
JAX: Rodney Gunter from DE to DT
JAX: Cassius Marsh from DE to LB
LAC: Cortez Broughton from DE to DT
LAR: Tanzel Smart from DT to DE
LAR: Jake McQuaide from LB to DT
LAR: Sebastian Joseph-Day from DE to DT
MIA: Eric Rowe from CB to S
MIN: Ifeadi Odenigbo from DT to DE
NE : Tashawn Bower from DE to LB
NE : Byron Cowart from DE to DT
NO : Noah Spence from LB to DE
NYG: Rashaan Gaulden from S to CB
NYG: Julian Love from CB to S
PHI: Jalen Mills from CB to S
PHI: Albert Huggins from DE to DT
SF : Jimmie Ward from CB to S
SF : D.J. Reed from S to CB
TB : Codey McElroy from TE to WR
TB : Deiondre' Hall from S to CB
TEN: Jack Crawford from DT to DE
TEN: Vic Beasley from DE to LB
TEN: Jordan Williams from DE to LB
TEN: Kareem Orr from CB to S
TEN: DaQuan Jones from DE to DT
WAS: Simeon Thomas from S to CB
WAS: Nate Orchard from LB to DE
ARI: Charles Washington from CB to S
ARI: Jalen Thompson from CB to S
ARI: Trevon Coley from DT to DE
ARI: Caraun Reid from DT to DE
ARI: Jordan Phillips from DT to DE
ATL: Dante Fowler from LB to DE
ATL: Kemal Ishmael from LB to S
BAL: Jihad Ward from DT to DE
BUF: Leterrius Walton from DE to DT
CAR: Zach Kerr from DE to DT
CAR: Juston Burris from CB to S
CAR: Stacy McGee from DE to DT
CHI: Robert Quinn from DE to LB
CHI: Abdullah Anderson from DT to DE
CIN: Trayvon Henderson from S to CB
DEN: Shelby Harris from DT to DE
DEN: Dre'Mont Jones from DT to DE
DEN: Deyon Sizer from DT to DE
DET: Frank Herron from DT to DE
GB : Tyler Lancaster from DT to DE
GB : Will Redmond from CB to S
GB : Tramon Williams from S to CB
HOU: Jake Martin from DE to LB
JAX: Rodney Gunter from DE to DT
JAX: Cassius Marsh from DE to LB
LAC: Cortez Broughton from DE to DT
LAR: Tanzel Smart from DT to DE
LAR: Jake McQuaide from LB to DT
LAR: Sebastian Joseph-Day from DE to DT
MIA: Eric Rowe from CB to S
MIN: Ifeadi Odenigbo from DT to DE
NE : Tashawn Bower from DE to LB
NE : Byron Cowart from DE to DT
NO : Noah Spence from LB to DE
NYG: Rashaan Gaulden from S to CB
NYG: Julian Love from CB to S
PHI: Jalen Mills from CB to S
PHI: Albert Huggins from DE to DT
SF : Jimmie Ward from CB to S
SF : D.J. Reed from S to CB
TB : Codey McElroy from TE to WR
TB : Deiondre' Hall from S to CB
TEN: Jack Crawford from DT to DE
TEN: Vic Beasley from DE to LB
TEN: Jordan Williams from DE to LB
TEN: Kareem Orr from CB to S
TEN: DaQuan Jones from DE to DT
WAS: Simeon Thomas from S to CB
WAS: Nate Orchard from LB to DE
Tick
Footballguy
Everyone weigh in here: https://twitter.com/idpsharks/status/1247895313777487872?s=21
Gary Davenport is the source for MFL IDP positional designations.
Gary Davenport is the source for MFL IDP positional designations.
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
Voted snap count, as I think that is clearly the best indicator of where they line up. I don't know how that would work though, as changes aren't made in-season. So players that move to a new team that runs a different system could be wrong for the season as a result. Maybe those cases should be depth chart? Ultimately, I want something stable and easily identifiable, rather than what one guy sees and some sprinkled on fairy dust.
tripp
Footballguy
I don't think there's a foolproof answer. I think snap alignments is the place to start and the majority of the weight for the decision. For instance, there's subjectivity in what PFF charters label. The grayest area is LEO vs. OLB.
I think the teams' depth charts are useful to confirm snap alignments. (The Twitter complaint that some PR intern publishes them in a vacuum is overstated, imo.) Some correctly show which 3-4 'end' is actually the DT (vs. NT) for those teams playing strong and weak side on the line.
When alignments and team depth charts conflict, i think it's useful to contemplate who that player is, i.e., college position, combine position group. I provided this feedback to Davenport to the extent that 280 characters allow.
I strongly dislike that Davenport is looking to other sites. He needs to stop doing that. Folks like ourlads try hard and provide a wonderful service but are frought with errors. They'll fill out a depth chart with guesses if they see fit.
I think the teams' depth charts are useful to confirm snap alignments. (The Twitter complaint that some PR intern publishes them in a vacuum is overstated, imo.) Some correctly show which 3-4 'end' is actually the DT (vs. NT) for those teams playing strong and weak side on the line.
When alignments and team depth charts conflict, i think it's useful to contemplate who that player is, i.e., college position, combine position group. I provided this feedback to Davenport to the extent that 280 characters allow.
I strongly dislike that Davenport is looking to other sites. He needs to stop doing that. Folks like ourlads try hard and provide a wonderful service but are frought with errors. They'll fill out a depth chart with guesses if they see fit.
