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TRADE THREAD- President Trump signs Phase One of China agreement, China promises to double its purchases in 2020 (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
timschochet
Footballguy
South Korea has agreed to a new trade deal with the USA:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/28/us-south-korea-trade-deal-is-3-deals-in-1-says-us-trade-rep-lighthizer.html
President Trump and his supporters will claim that this is the result of the threatened tariffs (Trump notably did NOT place tariffs immediately on South Korea, but threatened to if a deal was not achieved) and will no doubt cite this as proof that what Trump is doing is working. And perhaps they have a point. Personally, I hate the idea of threatening other nations in order to win concessions from them; it can never be good in the long run. But perhaps in this case it was effective.
So if this deal is as good as it appears to be based on the summary, congratulations to President Trump and his administration.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/28/us-south-korea-trade-deal-is-3-deals-in-1-says-us-trade-rep-lighthizer.html
President Trump and his supporters will claim that this is the result of the threatened tariffs (Trump notably did NOT place tariffs immediately on South Korea, but threatened to if a deal was not achieved) and will no doubt cite this as proof that what Trump is doing is working. And perhaps they have a point. Personally, I hate the idea of threatening other nations in order to win concessions from them; it can never be good in the long run. But perhaps in this case it was effective.
So if this deal is as good as it appears to be based on the summary, congratulations to President Trump and his administration.
dschuler
Footballguy
This will be good for US chip stocks in the near future, China seems hell bent on being self independent in this industry.
China cuts tax rate on semiconductors
China cuts tax rate on semiconductors
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NREC34
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Might want to change your thread title to reflect the current idiocy going on. He's pulling a Lucy on another ally. Can't see how this will end badly
The Commish
Footballguy
Love how Donnie Two Scoops goes all 
with no action, then BAM!!!! China beats him to the punch with their first round of tariffs targeting the areas that most likely voted for Trump 
with no action, then BAM!!!! China beats him to the punch with their first round of tariffs targeting the areas that most likely voted for Trump
timschochet
Footballguy
I will update it.
timschochet
Footballguy
Details of the new Chinese tariffs:
http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/02/news/economy/china-us-tariffs-trade/index.html
http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/02/news/economy/china-us-tariffs-trade/index.html
The Commish
Footballguy
And these are in effect today....it's not what they are talking about doing. They've done it. Maybe they should write a book about deal making...seem to be several steps ahead of the master negotiator.
timschochet
Footballguy
Also, after I praised Trump for the new South Korea trade agreement last week, he is already threatening to walk away from it, and his statements about it indicate that he has no idea of its details and, contrary to the White House assertions, has nothing to do with its negotiation.
Sigh. I do try to praise this President from time to time when he does something that I think is good for the country, even inadvertently, but every time I do I feel a bit like Charlie Brown trying to kick Lucy’s football.
Sigh. I do try to praise this President from time to time when he does something that I think is good for the country, even inadvertently, but every time I do I feel a bit like Charlie Brown trying to kick Lucy’s football.
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
I'm not well educated when it comes to global economics and as such I'm trying to become more informed as I age.
I'm trying to understand DJT's tactics here. I don't believe that he actually thinks things through. I guarantee China did. It took them less than two weeks to consider and implement tariffs. I don't believe they'd do that unless they think the pros outweigh the cons of a trade war with the U.S.
I'm trying to understand DJT's tactics here. I don't believe that he actually thinks things through. I guarantee China did. It took them less than two weeks to consider and implement tariffs. I don't believe they'd do that unless they think the pros outweigh the cons of a trade war with the U.S.
The Commish
Footballguy
His style of "negotiation" is to threaten. That works when you have the big stack at the table and noobs all around. Not so much when the stacks are relatively even and all the guys at the table have pegged you as the noob.
Trump's idea of negotiation is to bluster first. He is a bully, and when dealing with contractors and sub-contractors - and generally dealing from a position of strength - that tactic can work - when you do not have long-term relationships with your negotiating adversary.
What Trump fails to grasp is that those tactics do not work when you are not negotiating from a position of strength or when you are negotiating with people/countries where you have an on-going long-term relationship to cultivate.
China has clearly seen Trump operate, and understood his bluff, and correctly called him on it. Now, the smart move would be to back down from a failed bluff, and live to play another hand. But, does anyone expect Trump to do anything but double down on his bluff?
China's move here, also telegraphs what to expect in a North Korea meeting - North Korea will take a strong stance on US military in Korea - demanding the complete withdrawal of forces - which is exactly what China wants to see.
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
Does our Congress not feel the need to reign him in at all? I find it incredible that they cannot see the dangers of destroying long-established relationships with our allys.
moleculo
Footballguy
this doesn't make sense to me. Aren't tariffs based on country of origin, not ownership?
The Commish
Footballguy
Not quite an accurate title....we need to acknowledge the threat of tariffs vs actual tariffs imposed IMO.
The Commish
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Or they just route it through another country since Smithfield has operations all over the world. Plus even if they do pay the tariff, it's not like the money isn't coming back to themselves and then they can buy up more independant farms here when they can't compete. The pork tariff is BFD for pork producers.
There are too busy researching whether China's tariffs on "pork" will affect their legislative agenda...
They are all (with a few exceptions) petrified to speak out. They think the Trump/Bannon/Hannity machine will bulldoze them out of a job. It's going to take one well-respected Republican to just say F-it and not care about reelection or having Fox News hate him to stand up and say 'Enough is enough!' The only ones with the balls to challenge him on anything are guys like McCain or Flake who are not seeking reelection. The lack of backbone and moral compass is simply disgusting. Paul Ryan is the one who should be most ashamed of himself. He had some convictions of right and wrong during the primaries. As soon as Trump won, he became the biggest wimp on the planet. They all just stand back shaking in their shoes.
Skoo
Footballguy
Oh, I'm sure that that do.
The problem is that they are much more worried about getting re-elected than they are anything else.
sho nuff
Footballguy
You mean running the country like a real estate business doesn’t work?
Everyone now knows his big stacks were a mirage in business.
Am I being naïve to think that perhaps, one day soon, there will be some back room discussions amongst Republican congressmen and senators where they agree to start putting the country ahead political election nonsense? If they banded together, they would sway the right as well as Fox News (which, let's face it, tells the right what to think and feel about everything) to joinj with them to save the country and the Republican party. I mean, despite appearances, I have to think that these guys actually have some compassion and feelings and morals. Right?
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Sammy3469
Footballguy
Is Elaine Chao (otherwise known as McConnell's wife) still the Secretary of Transportation in this scenario?
Skoo
Footballguy
Unfortunately, I do think you are giving them WAY too much credit.
Now, if it becomes clear that Trump is toxic and the smart thing politically is to distance themselves from Trump, then I do think that the tide will start to turn. It'll still be all about them getting re-elected, but at least they'll get to act like they are serving the country's best interests.
timschochet
Footballguy
It’s a sad fact that a 17 year old kid like David Hogg seems to have more guts and courage than nearly all of the Republican politicians, combined.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
It is also the human condition that the young tend towards idealism while those somewhat older bend towards pragmatism.
One of the things I like very much about The Prophet by Kahlil Gibran is that the elders of a community are asking after the metaphysical and philosophical wisdom of one of their youths who is about to enter manhood. They do this to be reminded of the truths of youth, their own truths from their own time, perhaps partially forgotten through the trials of living. Some of that same spirit is captured in Cat Stevens' song Father and Son were both perspectives presented, that of age and experience and that of youth and passion are equally true and valid and are not necessarily counter-posed, though they seem so at first.
The Commish
Footballguy
It's about the job for our politicians. Don't bite the hand that feeds you and you'll be fine. Hogg isn't beholden to anyone. We've already seen a shift in behavior from the adults when they aren't trying to keep a job. Of course, this makes it no less gutless, but I'm trying to be fair by pointing out that Hogg really has nothing to lose. Republican politicians have already lost their souls so now they are trying to do damage control and not lose their jobs.timschochet said:
timschochet
Footballguy
These are excellent points.Ditkaless Wonders said:
But political courage need not rely on youth or idealism. The most comparable political figure in our modern history to Donald Trump, in terms of indecency, was Joseph McCarthy. Then, as now, most Republicans were petrified of him. But a few spoke out: Margaret Chase Smith of Maine was the loudest. Edgar R Murrow, a conservative Republican (despite the fact that he is today regarded as a liberal icon) challenged McCarthy on TV. Joseph Welch, another conservative, ultimately destroyed McCarthy.
These men (and woman) were not young. They were not idealists. But they did have the strength of their convictions. And they were brave.
There are a few prominent conservatives now who are speaking out: George Will, Steve Schmidt, a few others. But they’re not loud enough.
That was supposed to be the great thing about Trump. And every once in a while, in casual sit-down settings, we get to see Trump's actual thoughts when he's dealing face to face with people. His comments about DACA and being a bill of love are a prime example. And his talk about raising the age of purchasing a gun up to 21. But then he crumbles to pressure and it's like those discussions never took place. Trump is actually more beholden than most Presidents, as it turns out. He's beholden to groups like the NRA. He's beholden to every Fox News commentator. And he's beholden to that rabid, red hat wearing bunch of yahoos who attend his rallies.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
And thus my use of terms which were less than absolute like "tend" of 'bend". Certainly, and delightfully, there are exceptions to the generalizations.
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
Pleased to meet you, won't you guess my name?timschochet said:
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Well, he can't carry a big stick in those tiny hands and still tweet...so, small stick it is.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
Wait, I thought we already won the trade war? China is weak and immediately capitulated?
timschochet
Footballguy
China doing the smart thing here- their specific tariffs are designed to punish key red states, like Iowa. Already politicians like Joni Ernst and even that idiot bigot Steve King are complaining to Trump- they don't like what they're hearing from the folks back home.
And now, we are going to have to concede something just to get China to stop humiliating us....
Art of War >>>>>>>>>> Art of the Deal
The Commish
Footballguy
It can't be pointed out enough that Trump is still at the bluffing stage and China's already on to the action portion of the program. We are being impacted immediately having done NOTHING. Unreal.
bluffing stage and China's already on to the action portion of the program. We are being impacted immediately having done NOTHING. Unreal.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Yes....but you forget we have the legendary “backtrack” card in our hand in which we are waiting for the right time to lay it down.It can't be pointed out enough that Trump is still at the
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
Yeah amazing what happens when you don't have one the stupidest people on the planet running your government.
Dedfin
Footballguy
Yeah, I'd presume if we had adults running the government and for some reason tariffs were considered, the responses would be predicted. This anticipatory governance concept is something that I'm 100% certain no Trump official has heard of.
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