Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
timschochet

TRADE WAR: Dow drops all week, rebounds a little on Friday

Recommended Posts

This deserves its own discussion as of now, since President Trump is announcing it as official. So far I haven't heard any exemptions or carve outs, but they may be coming.

Edited by timschochet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, timschochet said:

This deserves its own discussion as of now, since President Trump is announcing it as official. So far I haven't heard any exemptions or cutouts, but they may be coming.

War!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Make no mistake, this WILL be popular with a lot of Americans, perhaps a plurality. Almost every economist, liberal and conservative, will tell you it's a bad idea. But a lot of the public likes it, particularly Trump's primary supporters and a lot of the Bernie people as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trump says steel is an essential industry in America. But the facts are that while there are 150,000 people employed in the steel industry, there are millions more who depend on steel and will be hurt by this.

Trump just quoted President McKinley. I kid you not. He has to go that far back to find a President to defend protective tariffs. Unbelievable.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's so many tariffs
There's so many tariffs
There's so many
There's so many tariffs
There's so many tariffs
There's so many

Let's have a trade war!
#### up the Dow Jones!
Let's have a trade war!
It can start in Steel Industry!
Let's have a trade war!
Screw the middle-class!
Let's have a trade war!
Trump banged the porn star that's on stage!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are holding off the tariff on Mexico and Canada- for now- to see if we can renegotiate NAFTA. If we can't make a deal, then we terminate NAFTA.

...And now Trump is threatening countries who don't pay enough for their military. The tariffs take effect in 15 days, but we'll decide who to punish. (No mention here of South Korea, our biggest importer of steel after Mexico and Canada.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

I always liked this gem:

I went down on my knees and prayed to Almighty God for light and guidance and one night late it came to me this way. We could not leave (the Philippines) to themselves-they were unfit for self-government-and they would soon have anarchy and misrule over there worse than Spain's was. There was nothing left for us to do but take them all and educate the Filipinos, and uplift and Christianize them.

Helluva guy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, timschochet said:

"We lose 800 billion a year on trade."

Evidence that Trump doesn't understand what a trade deficit is.

It is more than evidence

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, timschochet said:

a lot of the Bernie people as well

Link?  I can't imagine his supporters being fond of this in any meaningful number.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems like another 'A-ha! we got you this time' Trump thread.

Add it to the rest of the miserable Trump attack failures in this forum. You guys are wrong every time. You should give it up. It's an embarrassing display.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And this is a moronic decision and will accomplish nothing, especially if he creates exemptions.  All that does is change the flow of how things come into this country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Slapdash said:

It is more than evidence

Unfortunately, he's not the only one. I've pointed out before that this is not one of those issues that is conducive to popular understanding. Trump's concept of it, wrong as it is, is much easier to understand that the actual truth. That's why free trade has never been popular.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Calvitron Johnson said:

Seems like another 'A-ha! we got you this time' Trump thread.

Add it to the rest of the miserable Trump attack failures in this forum. You guys are wrong every time. You should give it up. It's an embarrassing display.

Can you please explain how this is going to be a positive for our economy as a whole?  TIA

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Trump's got these tough steel workers there talking about how grateful they are to him.

Picking winners and losers. Remember how the right used to rail against that? Swampy.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Calvitron Johnson said:

Seems like another 'A-ha! we got you this time' Trump thread.

Add it to the rest of the miserable Trump attack failures in this forum. You guys are wrong every time. You should give it up. It's an embarrassing display.

Actually, this is more an instance of "Trump got us" rather than the other way around.

I am attacking Trump for this because I believe that protectionism is a terrible idea. If you think I am wrong about this, make your case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Unfortunately, he's not the only one. I've pointed out before that this is not one of those issues that is conducive to popular understanding. Trump's concept of it, wrong as it is, is much easier to understand that the actual truth. That's why free trade has never been popular.

Free trade is not popular because it doesn't exist.  Free trade is an ideology.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Can you please explain how this is going to be a positive for our economy as a whole?  TIA

:lmao: 

Good one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, The Commish said:

Free trade is not popular because it doesn't exist.  Free trade is an ideology.

OK. I don't want to go down that path.

What Trump is doing is blaming "the others" for what has happened to the rust belt. That is what is popular; it's partly what helped him win the election.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone know what the market would look like without FB,Apple,Amazon,Netflix,Microsoft, and Google out of the picture?  As great as the stock market has performed but especially the last couple of years, I feel like these few big names are propping up the markets.  Drug companies have been getting slaughtered, lots of energy companies have struggled, retail up until recently has been a bloodbath, lots of smaller cap stocks still lagging behind.

It seems like these few names are up almost 1% everyday.  That’s an extra market cap of about $35 billion added to the markets daily on those companies alone. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a side note, I don't think it's a coincidence that the only thing that every one of Trump's policies and actions have in common is that they all punish California.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have never had a major politician, since Joseph McCarthy, who has pushed "fear of the other" as much as President Trump has. I just don't understand how anybody can see this as a positive. I mean, putting aside the economic ramifications, doesn't it make you sick to your stomach? It does for me. I can't stand it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, timschochet said:

It's just speculation on my part regarding Sanders. But these Democrats like what Trump is doing:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/06/trade-democrats-tariffs-rust-belt-442822

I'd probably hold off on using the broad brush of "Bernie guys" then if I were you.  You'll get guys like me coming out of the woodwork who represent the majority focusing on this characterization rather than the larger problem.  My :2cents: 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the proper analogy here, a complex web, a web of dominoes, I don't know.  What I do know is that I do not have faith in this Administration to see the necessary number of moves ahead to win a trade war.  I doubt anyone has ever won a trade war.  Sure, some think they have, but they don't have the perspicacity to see where they would have been sans the war.

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

We have never had a major politician, since Joseph McCarthy, who has pushed "fear of the other" as much as President Trump has. I just don't understand how anybody can see this as a positive. I mean, putting aside the economic ramifications, doesn't it make you sick to your stomach? It does for me. I can't stand it.

What do you mean Tim?  Fear mongering has been a staple of both parties for a really long time.  Has it been as blatant as what Trump has done?  No, absolutely not, but it's been there all along.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, The Commish said:

I'd probably hold off on using the broad brush of "Bernie guys" then if I were you.  You'll get guys like me coming out of the woodwork who represent the majority focusing on this characterization rather than the larger problem.  My :2cents: 

You're right. My apologies.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, timschochet said:

"We lose 800 billion a year on trade."

Evidence that Trump doesn't understand what a trade deficit is.

Well, obviously. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, The Commish said:

What do you mean Tim?  Fear mongering has been a staple of both parties for a really long time.  Has it been as blatant as what Trump has done?  No, absolutely not, but it's been there all along.

Not like this. And it's rarely the emphasis. Ronald Reagan and Barack Obama for example both pushed a sunny, positive message. I could disagree with Reagan all day long but it was impossible for me to dislike the guy because I always felt he liked everybody. Same for Obama.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

On a side note, I don't think it's a coincidence that the only thing that every one of Trump's policies and actions have in common is that they all punish California.

Even with the tariffs and turmoil the market is still up... why is that?  I think you should consider what I said above.  We are reaching a point where one day FANGM will have such a large market cap comparatively that the other companies in the stock market will have little to no impact on the overall change in the Dow/NASDAQ.   These tariff benefitting companies like American Steel and Alcoa for aluminum have market caps that combine for only about 1.5% of the total value of just Apple.  

Essentially, we have gotten to the point where people 401Ks are still going to go up with 1000000% tariffs as long as the value of FANGM keep going up.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“Fair trade...not free trade. “

We must be willing to leverage our national might to drive fair trade.

Sure, no tariffs or restrictions anywhere would be the ideal, just like World Peace is the ideal.

But that’s not the world WE live in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, dschuler said:

Even with the tariffs and turmoil the market is still up... why is that?  I think you should consider what I said above.  We are reaching a point where one day FANGM will have such a large market cap comparatively that the other companies in the stock market will have little to no impact on the overall change in the Dow/NASDAQ.   These tariff benefitting companies like American Steel and Alcoa for aluminum have market caps that combine for only about 1.5% of the total value of just Apple.  

Essentially, we have gotten to the point where people 401Ks are still going to go up with 1000000% tariffs as long as the value of FANGM keep going up.  

There's more to a healthy economy than a bull stock market. Or at least there should be. Our policies lately don't seem to acknowledge that. I wonder why that is?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, timschochet said:

"We lose 800 billion a year on trade."

Evidence that Trump doesn't understand what a trade deficit is.

It's not good that Trump wants to close that gap.

But that gap is eventually going to close anyway, unless we believe the US dollar will always be the world's reserve currency. If Trump closes that gap, then that will just accelerate the arrival of the day the world stops using the dollar for international trade. Basically, he's just making the hurricane in our future hit land sooner. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Politician Spock said:

It's not good that Trump wants to close that gap.

But that gap is eventually going to close anyway, unless we believe the US dollar will always be the world's reserve currency. If Trump closes that gap, then that will just accelerate the arrival of the day the world stops using the dollar for international trade. Basically, he's just making the hurricane in our future hit land sooner. 

From twitter, but kind of makes sense.

"What if I told u Trump, in his heart, knows America rejects his insanity & knows the most important thing to him, his 'brand', his name is internationally ####ed. Not just for him but for his father before him, and his kids after him. And what if now the POTUS resents America?"

"^^^ Short Version: Trumps gonna start smashing the place up, worse than he has done already. The longer he's in the greater the pressure, the more the resentment. Because he's a manchild who never had to bear a consequence for his ####### actions before now. Ego's are a #####."

"^^^ "America! If I can't have - you no one can!"

Edited by Bucky86

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, timschochet said:
17 minutes ago, The Commish said:

What do you mean Tim?  Fear mongering has been a staple of both parties for a really long time.  Has it been as blatant as what Trump has done?  No, absolutely not, but it's been there all along.

Not like this. And it's rarely the emphasis. Ronald Reagan and Barack Obama for example both pushed a sunny, positive message. I could disagree with Reagan all day long but it was impossible for me to dislike the guy because I always felt he liked everybody. Same for Obama

It is always there.  I agree they weren't as blunt about it and Trump being ignorant of just about everything doesn't help much and magnifies his bluntness but I am going to disagree that it hasn't always been there.  That's not to say that those guys did it ALL the time, in every speech, talking engagement etc.  They didn't because they didn't have to, but it was readily used by them frequently.  It's a crutch for Trump when it wasn't for the others.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bucky86 said:

From twitter, but kind of makes sense.

"What if I told u Trump, in his heart, knows America rejects his insanity & knows the most important thing to him, his 'brand', his name is internationally ####ed. Not just for him but for his father before him, and his kids after him. And what if now the POTUS resents America?"

"^^^ Short Version: Trumps gonna start smashing the place up, worse than he has done already. The longer he's in the greater the pressure, the more the resentment. Because he's a manchild who never had to bear a consequence for his ####### actions before now. Ego's are a #####."

The evil genius theory doesn't hold water with me given he seems far away from being a genius to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, The Commish said:

It is always there.  I agree they weren't as blunt about it and Trump being ignorant of just about everything doesn't help much and magnifies his bluntness but I am going to disagree that it hasn't always been there.  That's not to say that those guys did it ALL the time, in every speech, talking engagement etc.  They didn't because they didn't have to, but it was readily used by them frequently.  It's a crutch for Trump when it wasn't for the others.  

Also, Reagan was very blunt in the early years. His "evil empire" claim in 1983 was so extreme it fueled the USA vs Russia culture that was a defining aspect of the 80's. Reagan then took back the claim in 1988 during a visit to Russia. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pros of this?

How many jobs? Increased wages?

Cons?

How much do consumer prices increase?

How much do other businesses suffer (those that rely on steel and aluminum) ?

Trade? And relationships with allies?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it interesting that Randy Bryce, the guy challenging Paul Ryan does not seem to want to talk about the tariffs. At least on his Twitter recently all I see is a bunch of stuff about the Dream Act. 

The guy is a steel worker so it looks like he’d have an opinion...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, timschochet said:

"We lose 800 billion a year on trade."

Evidence that Trump doesn't understand what a trade deficit is.

My trade deficit at the grocery store is ridiculous. Time to wage war. That'll show them. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.