What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

It's time for the Old Guard of the Democratic Party to go away: Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden (1 Viewer)

timschochet

timschochet

Footballguy
A lot of the people on the above list are politicians I really admire, particularly Clinton and Pelosi. With the exception of Bernie, all of the above people I mentioned are part of the Democratic "establishment", and I favor the establishment. Most of them, again with the exception of Bernie, are moderates and centrists, and I favor the moderate and centrist wing of the Democratic Party.

But none of that matters.

They're too old. And Republican voters are too ingrained against them. For instance, they see Pelosi as pure anathema, and they're not going to change their minds. We need new voices, new people to lead the party. There are plenty, both centrist and liberal. I've been impressed by Conor Lamb, (despite his anti-trade positions) and by Kamela Harris (despite the fact that she is probably too leftist for me.) I love Corey Booker.

The Democratic party needs to attract the students who marched this week against gun violence. They need to attract millennials in general. And they need to attract independents and Republicans disgusted with the current direction of the GOP. More energy is needed.  For that they need to get younger. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dems should at least adopt a party plank of never running a candidate for national office over the age of 70. 75 if we're feeling generous.

 
If we just be patient, change is coming....All of these youts who are walking out and marching and such are our upcoming Congressmen and women..

 
timschochet said:
To be specific: if Nancy Pelosi were to announce her retirement right now, it would immediately boost the Democrats' chances to win back the House. She needs to take one for the team here.
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure about all the others but this I can agree with.  She is viewed and hated by many the same as Hillary is.

 
The Clintons have already moved on. 

I think for the rest never underestimate the importance of power and those who know how to wield it. Having said that I believed that a phalanx of young Dem leaders running in 2016 for president would have been terrific. It's really one thing I was annoyed by. I really hope we see that in 2020, say 5-8 really terrific, younger governors & Congressmen who understand policy and overcome the bull#### of the past. That was Obama I suppose but I'd say more is needed now. 

 
timschochet said:
To be specific: if Nancy Pelosi were to announce her retirement right now, it would immediately boost the Democrats' chances to win back the House. She needs to take one for the team here.
Click to expand...
The GOP is explicitly running against her. But keep in mind Trump is in the WH and frankly wily as hell and knowing procedure as a counterweight is a big deal. 

 
NREC34 said:
Probably a good chance he won’t even be alive in 2020 tbh. 

Saw a pic of him recently talking with a homeless guy and he looked pretty frail to me. 
Click to expand...
he's 75...he's old...they need to turn the page and get some new blood to lead the party...more centrist.

 
BigSteelThrill said:
One thing I know for damn sure... when it comes to progressive politics and how to better the American citizenry by their implementation, don't ever listen to you mr timschochet.

sorry if that sounds harsh, but its true.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, BST, but what I wrote really doesn't have much to do with the progressive vs. centrist paradigm. It DOES have to do with basic politics- mainly that voters tend to be attracted to youth, and that is more true today than it was a few years ago.

 
timschochet said:
Fair enough, BST, but what I wrote really doesn't have much to do with the progressive vs. centrist paradigm. It DOES have to do with basic politics- mainly that voters tend to be attracted to youth, and that is more true today than it was a few years ago.
Click to expand...
Like Trump?

Because at the base level, that youth can come in from the new candidates without kicking anyone to the curb simply based on age or ageism.

 
BigSteelThrill said:
Like Trump?

Because at the base level, that youth can come in from the new candidates without kicking anyone to the curb simply based on age or ageism.
Click to expand...
This is more political strategy than discrimination. There's a huge new bloc of voters coming along who won't be energized by someone old enough to be their great-grandfathers/mothers. We old libbies will vote for younger candidates, too, and we won't lose a thing by not getting the blue hairs who think Trump's hairstyle is the shizz.

 
BigSteelThrill said:
Like Trump?

Because at the base level, that youth can come in from the new candidates without kicking anyone to the curb simply based on age or ageism.
Click to expand...
Trump certainly represented something new. But two points:

1. If we look at the 17 people who ran against Trump, the only youthful one was Rubio. And Rubio killed his chances with the conservative base by being for immigration reform; he couldn't get past it. He also proved rather inept at debate (much to my surprise.) Had Trump not been around, though, I suspect that Rubio would likely have been the nominee.

2. Democratic voters historically prefer youth more than Republican voters do, for a variety of reasons.

 
It's a big IF, but if Beto O'Rourke can upset Ted Cruz this year, he might be able to turn on a dime and run for POTUS in 2020. Politically, he needs more seasoning, but, his career trajectory is not unlike Obama's. Dare I suggest, he can nearly match the charisma of Obama too. At the very least, he can execute the Bernie Sanders playbook perfectly; specifically, no big donor contributions accepted.

 
I mostly agree.  I do wish Bernie wouldn't run for POTUS again though, as much as I like him.

Schumer is a better leader than Reid was, but that is damning with faint praise.

Biden, I'm torn on.  He is probably too old to run in 2020, but I think he would do well.  He would have won in 2016 though.  As others said, he at least is good as an elder statesman. 

 
timschochet said:
Trump certainly represented something new. But two points:

1. If we look at the 17 people who ran against Trump, the only youthful one was Rubio. And Rubio killed his chances with the conservative base by being for immigration reform; he couldn't get past it. He also proved rather inept at debate (much to my surprise.) Had Trump not been around, though, I suspect that Rubio would likely have been the nominee.

2. Democratic voters historically prefer youth more than Republican voters do, for a variety of reasons.
Click to expand...
Disagree on Rubio.  Chris Christie ruined Rubio in one night when Rubio repeated the same script 3 times in 4 minutes after he was criticized for having a tendency to reapeat the same three or four one liners without any substance.  Didn’t matter what the question was, Rubio had the same tired answer.  Worst night ever for Rubio, so bad it might have forever tarnished him.  

Rubio repeats himself over and over again

 
timschochet said:
A lot of the people on the above list are politicians I really admire, particularly Clinton and Pelosi. With the exception of Bernie, all of the above people I mentioned are part of the Democratic "establishment", and I favor the establishment. Most of them, again with the exception of Bernie, are moderates and centrists, and I favor the moderate and centrist wing of the Democratic Party.

But none of that matters.

They're too old. And Republican voters are too ingrained against them. For instance, they see Pelosi as pure anathema, and they're not going to change their minds. We need new voices, new people to lead the party. There are plenty, both centrist and liberal. I've been impressed by Conor Lamb, (despite his anti-trade positions) and by Kamela Harris (despite the fact that she is probably too leftist for me.) I love Corey Booker.

The Democratic party needs to attract the students who marched this week against gun violence. They need to attract millennials in general. And they need to attract independents and Republicans disgusted with the current direction of the GOP. More energy is needed.  For that they need to get younger. 
Click to expand...
It's funny you mention this because Bernie got quite the hero's welcome when he talked to the walkout crowds in D.C. I agree with the general sentiments of your post but Sanders is absolutely a net positive for the left right now. Virtually every poll shows him to be the most popular politician in America - especially amongst young people. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet said:
A lot of the people on the above list are politicians I really admire, particularly Clinton and Pelosi. With the exception of Bernie, all of the above people I mentioned are part of the Democratic "establishment", and I favor the establishment. Most of them, again with the exception of Bernie, are moderates and centrists, and I favor the moderate and centrist wing of the Democratic Party.

But none of that matters.

They're too old. And Republican voters are too ingrained against them. For instance, they see Pelosi as pure anathema, and they're not going to change their minds. We need new voices, new people to lead the party. There are plenty, both centrist and liberal. I've been impressed by Conor Lamb, (despite his anti-trade positions) and by Kamela Harris (despite the fact that she is probably too leftist for me.) I love Corey Booker.

The Democratic party needs to attract the students who marched this week against gun violence. They need to attract millennials in general. And they need to attract independents and Republicans disgusted with the current direction of the GOP. More energy is needed.  For that they need to get younger. 
Click to expand...
A good way to keep millennials home on election day would be to do exactly what you suggest. Every democratic candidate has been centrist but that does not prevent Rush Limbaugh or Fox News from saying that they are the most liberal candidate ever, now matter how centrist they are. Anyone who thinks Pelosi is an anathema will not vote for a democrat even if you get rid of her, and any pandering to win over independent or GOP voters will massively lower young voter enthusiasm while gaining you essentially nothing, because if they are still voting GOP by now...

 
timschochet said:
To be specific: if Nancy Pelosi were to announce her retirement right now, it would immediately boost the Democrats' chances to win back the House. She needs to take one for the team here.
Click to expand...
Nancy or no Nancy, I think the Dems take the house.  Easily, really.  I think they lose seats in the senate though.  

 
Pelosi’s image is negative, but it’s not about age. Plenty of young people like Bernie.

Biden is much more likeable in memes than he is in real life.

I agree that the party leadership needs new blood. That’s what it needed in 2016 as well, but better late than never.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Pelosi has got to go. If she truly cared about this country should would step aside as she is just so hated in this country she hurts Dems in every single district. 

 
Franknbeans said:
F the Dems. Bernie needs to establish a new opposition party.
Click to expand...
This is exactly the same as saying "I want Donald Trump to win a second term and for the GOP that bends to his every racist, authoritarian, idiotic whim to remain in power for the foreseeable future." 

Exactly the same. 100% guaranteed outcome.

 
Redwes25 said:
Pelosi has got to go. If she truly cared about this country should would step aside as she is just so hated in this country she hurts Dems in every single district. 
Click to expand...
I agree that she's toxic, but for what it's worth the reason she is the minority leader and remains a possibility to be speaker if the Dems take back the House is because she's good at it.  She gets things done.  Progressives and liberals should be very thankful that Paul Ryan isn't nearly as good at the gig as Pelosi was.  That doesn't make it a good idea for her to linger and harm Dems at the polls, and the polls are the most important thing right now. But for the sake of explanation, that's why she's still in the position she's in.

Also FWIW we should probably ask ourselves why it seems like old women in politics are so often considered toxic or the targets of a disproportionate amount of hatred. Compare public perception of Dianne Feinstein to Tim Kaine, who is similar politically.  Or Hillary Clinton to John Kerry.  Or Liz Warren to Richard Blumenthal.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet said:
To be specific: if Nancy Pelosi were to announce her retirement right now, it would immediately boost the Democrats' chances to win back the House. She needs to take one for the team here.
Click to expand...
Even though many dems are trying to distance themselves from Pelosi it never happen...They will have to carry her out on a gurney.

 
i'm good with both Warren and Pelosi. for me, it's not about the "old guard" stepping aside but rather the new blood stepping up. i'm good with Schiff as House Speaker, for example, because he's carved out a space for himself. he's shown the leadership and core competency to the public. Pelosi has shown herself time and again to be an effective political backroom operator. there would be no Obama without Nancy. 

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

GordonGekko
Lyricist Nancy Pelosi Begs Pro-Choice Voters For $15 To Attain A Team Blue Majority That Already Exists (6/30/22 18:29 PST)
Replies
17
Views
624
GordonGekko
GordonGekko
GordonGekko
Do You Believe College Liberals Have Hijacked The Democratic Party? (5/19/22 7:43 PST)
2
Replies
77
Views
2K
BladeRunner
BladeRunner
GordonGekko
New York Times: "Will Asian Americans Bolt From The Democratic Party?" (6/20/22 23:20 PST)
Replies
36
Views
876
jon_mx
J

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top