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JPP is a BUC... wOT!?!? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Soulfly3
- Start date
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
If they go to more of a 3-4 he didn’t really seem to fit.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Really? I'd love that as a Jets fan with the #3 pick - but I'm not sure this is related. Interesting view though and hope it's correct.
Boston
Footballguy
It is curious...I can't believe they would 100% lock in on a player like Chubb this early...not with the chance they could get some real sweetheart deal for a team looking to move into that #2...if they are not gonna go QB they have to leave all their options open...
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Unless they viewed Chubb as a can't miss All-Pro player I agree.
I think they just needed to clear some cap space and added a third round pick in the process. It's not like having two very good pass rushers would be a terrible thing if they loved Chubb.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Are the Giants going to a 3-4 base?
If they are then I wouldn't rule out a trade-down with Buffalo who could take a QB with the #2 and the Giants could take the best stand up edge rusher in the draft, Harold Landry at #12 plus they could get an extra 1st round pick next year when Eli would be 38 if they don't just take the QB with the #2 in this draft.
Boston
Footballguy
And he has a chance to be...great prospect and they may take him...I just don't see them showing their hand this early...as good as Chubb may be there is a chance that the Giants could get one of those over-the-top deals that can change a team's future...especially if they are not locked in at the QB position with the #2...
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Giants are blowing up their roster?
Hankmoody
Footballguy
He's a clone of Chandler Jones who had a lot of success in Bettcher's system. Credit to @onionsack here, but:
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/765225-nfl-trades/?do=findComment&comment=20896952
"Looking at his time in Arizona, his scheme was 4-2-5 48% of the time, 3-4-4 26% of the time and 3-3-5 17% of the time (according to PFF)."
Just over 40% of the time he lined up with 3 man fronts. I don't know how well JPP and Chubb would play together in that format plus you gotta fit Vernon in there.. One of the keys to that is having DE's that can be a bull edge-setter and reduce inside while having that edge guy (Mack, Chandler Jones) be able to work at different spots on the field - both OLB's, both ends as speed rush, etc. Oakland played this type of defense later in 2015 and had the most success they have had in recent memory with that strategy.
That's fair, but I can't see why else they would make this move otherwise. This gives them "a part of" the haul they would get for moving down without moving down. IND got 3 2nd's, NYG just got a 3 and a 4 for not moving and taking his replacement. You can't just not have a pass rush and this leaves them only with Vernon. Moving back doesn't preclude them getting Chubb if they go to 5. Maybe they get a 2nd and a 3rd and their net is now 2/3/3/4 and still getting younger and more flexible at EDGE. Teams don't tend to trade down out of premium tiers - even the Colts stayed at 6 presumably for a shot at Chubb/Barkely/Nelson, and I think NYG would likely do the same.
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Captain Cranks
Footballguy
The number of digits in his contract could create fireworks around the league.
Boston
Footballguy
In all honesty we could actually be over-thinking this and it could be as simple as wanting to move on from JPP and his 17.5 mil cap hit...new coach/new GM...may simply not see him as part of the future...he is 29 and making big time $..
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Good point.
They aren't keeping the band together and making one last big push for the SB if they trade their best pass rusher.
A base defense does not mean the Giants wouldn't have 4-3 and rush packages where they could have utilized JPP.
The Giants haven't drafting this high since they took LT in 1981 and Chubb isn't LT, he's not even Myles Garrett.
---------------------------------------------------
The only Combine scores that Chubb came close to being equal to Myles Garrett was in size and forty times but even then Myles was better.
40 Yard Dash Myles :4.64 seconds Chubb 4.65, size Myles at 272 lbs to Chubbs 269 but Myles clearly was the better prospect.
Side-by-side comparison Myles Garrett vs Bradley Chubb NFL Combine Scores
Arm Length :
- Myles 35.25 inches
- Chubb 34”
- Myles 10.25 inches
- Chubb 9 7/8”
- Myles 41.0 inches
- Chubb 36
- Myles 128 inches
- Chubb 121
- Myles 33 reps (225 lb)
- Chubb 24
The highest the Giants have drafted this century is #4 in 2004 when they took QB Phillp Rivers.
They just traded their best pass rusher, that isn't setting the table to take a DE and make a Super Bowl run.
That would be trading away a veteran Pro Bowl DE in order to select a rookie DE rated lower than the top rookie DE taken last year.
massraider
Footballguy
That's what I'm thinking. If they like one of the QBs, taking one at #2 makes sense. They can lose Manning after this year and save 17 mill in cap.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Yep. In 2004 they had Kurt Warner and not only took Rivers they traded their 2nd, 5th, and 1st the next year PLUS Rivers to get Eli so this talk that they have Eli so they wouldn't take a QB doesn't hold water.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Why wouldn't they have traded Manning to Jacksonville or Denver already if they were going full rebuild mode? Keeping him seems counterintuitive to that, but I agree this move does lend itself to the notion of rebuilding.
A lot of information that comes out this time of year is calculated - but locally there is a lot of talk that many in the organization think they have their heir apparent at QB already in house, Davis Webb.
At this point I think Buffalo blows their door off and they move back - which does lend credence to a rebuild as well - but if they stand pat I don't think taking Chubb or Barkely takes away from that notion either. They could replace JPP for much cheaper, get a guy that fits their new system better while picking up a third round pick.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Kurt Warner was thought to be finished at that time (the Rams chose Marc Bulger over him in fact) and wasn't very good with the Giants - he did have a resurgence with the Cards though.
That move was two GMs ago - so I'm not sure it's relevant. Like I said above at this point, I think they wind up trading down - Buffalo just has way too much ammo and desperation not to move up. Maybe they take Rudolph or Jackson with the 22 pick - but yesterday the back page stories listed their top three players on their draft board as 1. Barkely 2. Chubb and 3. Nelson - so maybe they just don't like the QBs enough in the draft. Of course that story could be speculative or even bogus as well. The NY papers outside of the Times are rags.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Who started that season when they made a huge trade to take Eli? Warner or Manning?
Rinse and repeat this year but Manning will start and act as the bridge for the rookie.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Nice work by the Bucs adding JPP and Vinny Curry. Plus some other decent bodies to their defense. Good upgrades.
-OZ-
Footballguy
I don't want to read too much into this trade but they could still trade Eli on draft day.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
So I guess whoever the Browns take at QB will be a bust because all of the QBs they took in the past were busts?
What the Giants did in 2005 doesn't have any relevance here, just like what the Browns did in the past has no relevance - it was two GMs ago.
I will agree that this move tells me they aren't all in to win most likely so maybe they do take a QB - although they did also sign a 30 year old OT to the biggest contract in the league, signed a 30 old RB and traded picks away for an ILB.
I'm not really impressed by what Gettleman has done so far so who knows what his plan is. If the Bills offer the 12, 22, a 2nd and 4th plus a future 1st - it would be hard for them to walk away from that.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The two teams where it would make the most sense for him to land - Jax and Denver have filled their QB slots - although I suppose Jax could push Bortles to the backup slot. But, true.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Aznflyer14
Footballguy
It's all about cap room and scheme fit. Giants simply followed the suit from Rams when acquiring LB Alec Olegtree.
massraider
Footballguy
Good question. If I had to make an argument for why I think they would keep Manning, for now, and draft a QB, I would say:
- Manning's deal much easier to move next year. 17.4 mill in dead cap this year, and 6 mill next year. That's a big difference.
- Keeping Manning for a bridge seems kind of ideal, it's what a lot of fans say they would like.
- Maybe it's not 'FULL REBUILD' mold? Packers drafting Rodgers type of thing.
- Maybe the kid sits for a year, Manning plays better with OBJ back, and improves his trade value. He'll be on a one year deal for 16 mill or so to any trade partner in 2019.
- Giants are a stable, loyal franchise. Their relationship with Manning spans two titles. I can see them taking his replacement, but having respect for Manning.
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kentric
Footballguy
I'm surprised they were able to get a 3rd rounder for JPP. He is approaching 30 years of age and his performance, while good, wasn't worth the salary he was being paid IMO.
Hopefully the Giants either take a QB at 2 or trade back and get Nelson as their future Guard. Beef up the O-line.
Hopefully the Giants either take a QB at 2 or trade back and get Nelson as their future Guard. Beef up the O-line.
I suspect the Giants are simply reordering their salary allocation priorities. There was arguably too much money tied up on the D-Line and not enough at other positions (such as LB), especially if you're changing scheme to one that doesn't rely as much on the down linemen to generate a pass rush. Having traded for Ogletree, someone had to go; note their recent signing of Josh Mauro and re-signing of Kerry Wynn, two guys who fit better with the 3-4 (and are a lot cheaper).
The Bucs got JPP and the Giants 4th round pick. Giants got the Bucs 3rd and 4th round picks.
Mr. Brownstone
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Right, so the Giants essentially got a 3rd round pick for JPP since the 4ths more or less cancel out, no?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I mostly agree with this. JPP isn't an elite player at this point. He's a solid piece, but i'm not sure he's even a full time player going forward. The Giants have a promising young prospect in Avery Moss, and could easily take a pass rusher at the top of round 2, or if they trade down. I certainly don't think this locks them into Chubb at all.
Great get for a Tampa team who wanted a pass rusher now, though I think Curry is an even better addition for them.
I would have wanted to get a bit more if I were the Giants, but this is an understandable deal from both sides in my opinion.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
The money the Giants were willing to eat is pretty telling as well. They paid a LOT to get rid of him.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Went from probably the worst defensive line in football to a team strength in one off-season. Not easy to do.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Odd trade from the Giants' end. They already paid him the "bad' part of the contract last year at $22.5M. He's owed about $13M per year on average over the next 3 seasons and can be released after 2018 with no cap hit. Fairly cheap for a veteran DE, 8-10 sack player, and solid run defender. I guess they expected to do that after 2018 and figured let's just get something for him now? Weird.
I think they are gaining the necessary draft capital to move to #1 overall and get Darnold. End of story. Cleveland still gets their guy Allen at #2 while adding some picks from the Giants. Sending the whole organization to watch Darnold throw was smoke and mirrors... but it obviously worked the Giants into a frenzy.
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
He’s been the lone bright spot on this defense.
Thought they had something going into the season. My how the turn tables have turned.
Thought they had something going into the season. My how the turn tables have turned.
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