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Indefinite Green Bay Packers Thread

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4 minutes ago, JIMGET said:

found matthew's old pill stash?

Jelly his team has to give up a kings ransom and over pay him in order to have a pass rush

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This game is being lost again because the offense sucks and it’s not all McCarthy. 12 needs to get his head out of his ### sometimes.

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12 hours ago, sho nuff said:

This game is being lost again because the offense sucks and it’s not all McCarthy. 12 needs to get his head out of his ### sometimes.

Countless times he refuses to take the shorter route.  Many of his completions were underthrown.  The team kills itself with untimely penalties and a lack of putting together sustained drives.  Low football I.Q. and poor discipline.  They are a disgrace, and once again, on top of it all, decimated by injuries.  A year or two is a coincidence or bad luck, this many years is a trend and has to be considered to be on the coaches.  I'm tired of excuses, rationales, and hope.  I want results or blow it up.  They offend me.

I am tired of Matthews and Graham collecting paychecks.  Rodgers is overpaid and should have been sat until healthy after his injury.  How McCarthy can think of punting the ball away when they are short-handed on the defensive line before the game and is then without Daniels (also overpaid) and with Clark injured is beyond me.  They had zero hope of stopping Seattle at that point.

I suppose they could run the table here looking at their schedule.  They have the Vikings and then a bunch of winnable games if they are a decent team, but right now I have no indication that is so.

Heartless.  Brainless, and ununified.

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders
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I disagree with a few things.  Daniels and Matthews may not have the stats...but they are the reason clark and Lowry and Fackrell do have stats this year.

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16 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

I disagree with a few things.  Daniels and Matthews may not have the stats...but they are the reason clark and Lowry and Fackrell do have stats this year.

You are seeing things I am not seeing.

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16 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

You are seeing things I am not seeing.

I’m seeing a mediocre player like Fackrell get one on one opportunities because others are having the offense focus on them.

Eve with that said...to make the money he is making, Clay needs to do more.

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Rodgers completion % blows. Worse than Blake Bottles. He does need to get his head out of his ###. 

Oh and I forgot who the OC was. It's philbin. He's an idiot. How do you let a loser like that infiltrate your team? I'll tell ya. Losers like losers. 

Edited by lod001

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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/16/seahawks-center-justin-britt-critical-of-officiating-says-packers-were-simulating-snap-counts/

 

This is one of the (many) reasons I despise the Seahawks and hate losing to them.   Whining about the officiating?  From a team whose defensive backs hold the opposing receivers on basically every single play?   Just so incredibly hypocritical.   Go eat a #### Justin Britt.

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The conversation needs to be had not only about McCarthy, but what is wrong with Rodgers.

That pass in the dirt on third down that basically sealed the loss...throwing short to Davante where if he steps into it and hits him in stride its a TD early in the game.

Even the TD to Jones, ive gone back and forth and back on it...

-First thought good route and good catch by Jones with a nice throw.

-Then thought, Jones needs to learn to turn better on those corner routes, he looked lost.

-Then watched again and saw Jones turned fine, he had to back pedal at it because it was thrown short and not to the outside where he turned to...good adjustment on a ball that wasn't thrown as well as we are used to from Rodgers.

 

There are plenty like that, where he is just not as accurate right now as we are used to.  Some of it may be young WRs...but he misses passes a guy as good as him should be making easily.  In addition, on some of these 3rd downs...3rd and 5 or less...does he not have some discretion to get them into something that won't take him on a deep drop to lose yardage when he is ultimately sacked (4 times on 3rd down last night?).

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8 hours ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Countless times he refuses to take the shorter route.  Many of his completions were underthrown.  The team kills itself with untimely penalties and a lack of putting together sustained drives.  Low football I.Q. and poor discipline.  They are a disgrace, and once again, on top of it all, decimated by injuries.  A year or two is a coincidence or bad luck, this many years is a trend and has to be considered to be on the coaches.  I'm tired of excuses, rationales, and hope.  I want results or blow it up.  They offend me.

I am tired of Matthews and Graham collecting paychecks.  Rodgers is overpaid and should have been sat until healthy after his injury.  How McCarthy can think of punting the ball away when their short-handed defensive line before the game is then without Daniels (also overpaid) and with Clark injured is beyond me.  They had zero hope of stopping Seattle at that point.

I suppose they could run the table here looking at their schedule.  They have the Vikings and then a bunch of winnable games if they are a decent team, but right now I have no indication that is so.

Heartless.  Brainless, and ununified.

I do agree with the under routes, I appreciate that they push the ball down the field..but when you have somebody wide open for the first down, its OK to take that if the deep routes are covered.  

The offense does not look good.

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12 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

The conversation needs to be had not only about McCarthy, but what is wrong with Rodgers.

That pass in the dirt on third down that basically sealed the loss...throwing short to Davante where if he steps into it and hits him in stride its a TD early in the game.

Even the TD to Jones, ive gone back and forth and back on it...

-First thought good route and good catch by Jones with a nice throw.

-Then thought, Jones needs to learn to turn better on those corner routes, he looked lost.

-Then watched again and saw Jones turned fine, he had to back pedal at it because it was thrown short and not to the outside where he turned to...good adjustment on a ball that wasn't thrown as well as we are used to from Rodgers.

 

There are plenty like that, where he is just not as accurate right now as we are used to.  Some of it may be young WRs...but he misses passes a guy as good as him should be making easily.  In addition, on some of these 3rd downs...3rd and 5 or less...does he not have some discretion to get them into something that won't take him on a deep drop to lose yardage when he is ultimately sacked (4 times on 3rd down last night?).

Very good points all around.   Is Rodgers consciously trying to get MM fired?   Subconsciously?   Is something else going on?  Is he trying to do too much - almost like an anti-Tom Brady?

That 3rd and short throw was brutal.

Rodgers refused to criticize MM for punting.  Interesting.

Would love to know what is going on inside that guy's head.

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3 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Very good points all around.   Is Rodgers consciously trying to get MM fired?   Subconsciously?   Is something else going on?  Is he trying to do too much - almost like an anti-Tom Brady?

That 3rd and short throw was brutal.

Rodgers refused to criticize MM for punting.  Interesting.

Would love to know what is going on inside that guy's head.

I think Rodgers has given up on MM and has checked out. Time for the packers to move in a new direction, they're broken.

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I'm done defending Mcarthy. It's been 14 years and too many mistakes. He's got to go.  That punt on 4th and 2 when more than half the defense is injured is inexcusable. We're paying Rodgesr $33M/year. Let him go win the game.  If he can't get it done, we lose, simple. But you can't take the ball out of his hands.

Pettine has been a revelation - despite a ton of injuries, the defensive DVOA has been top 10.  

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This team should be 8-2 right now but it can't get out of it's own way. Good teams find ways to win the type of games GB has been losing this year and that is directly related to coaching. Punting it may have been the right call by the book but the book doesn't know how banged up the D is at that point in the game. It was the wrong call again by MM, who seems to be aggressive when he should be conservative and visa versa. 

Just got the alert that Graham will miss time with a broken thumb. :sigh: 

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4 hours ago, Phenomena said:

I'm done defending Mcarthy. It's been 14 years and too many mistakes. He's got to go.  That punt on 4th and 2 when more than half the defense is injured is inexcusable. We're paying Rodgesr $33M/year. Let him go win the game.  If he can't get it done, we lose, simple. But you can't take the ball out of his hands.

Pettine has been a revelation - despite a ton of injuries, the defensive DVOA has been top 10.  

Yeah D has kept them in games like yesterday and against the rams and patriots.  They run out of a gas a bit at the end...not unexpected woth the patchwork bunch he is working with.

Amd whether it’s Gute now or TT...that we have gotten rid of all of our safeties has been a failure.  Hyde, Burnett, and HaHa...that position needs serious attention.

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On 11/16/2018 at 7:23 AM, sho nuff said:

The conversation needs to be had not only about McCarthy, but what is wrong with Rodgers.

That pass in the dirt on third down that basically sealed the loss...throwing short to Davante where if he steps into it and hits him in stride its a TD early in the game.

Even the TD to Jones, ive gone back and forth and back on it...

-First thought good route and good catch by Jones with a nice throw.

-Then thought, Jones needs to learn to turn better on those corner routes, he looked lost.

-Then watched again and saw Jones turned fine, he had to back pedal at it because it was thrown short and not to the outside where he turned to...good adjustment on a ball that wasn't thrown as well as we are used to from Rodgers.

 

There are plenty like that, where he is just not as accurate right now as we are used to.  Some of it may be young WRs...but he misses passes a guy as good as him should be making easily.  In addition, on some of these 3rd downs...3rd and 5 or less...does he not have some discretion to get them into something that won't take him on a deep drop to lose yardage when he is ultimately sacked (4 times on 3rd down last night?).

 

Perhaps Rodgers is hurt more than the Packers or him are letting on? Could explain the inaccuracy. That does not explain the poor decision making though. When he bypasses a short checkdown for a 1st down in favor of a longer lower % pass :shrug:

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On 11/16/2018 at 7:37 AM, Alex P Keaton said:

Very good points all around.   Is Rodgers consciously trying to get MM fired?   Subconsciously?   Is something else going on?  Is he trying to do too much - almost like an anti-Tom Brady?

That 3rd and short throw was brutal.

Rodgers refused to criticize MM for punting.  Interesting.

Would love to know what is going on inside that guy's head.

Rodgers is way too competitive to be trying to sabotage victories to get McCarthy fired. I think it's more ego driven than anything.

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23 hours ago, Dark Matter said:

This team should be 8-2 right now but it can't get out of it's own way. Good teams find ways to win the type of games GB has been losing this year and that is directly related to coaching. Punting it may have been the right call by the book but the book doesn't know how banged up the D is at that point in the game. It was the wrong call again by MM, who seems to be aggressive when he should be conservative and visa versa. 

Just got the alert that Graham will miss time with a broken thumb. :sigh: 

McCarthy is Andy Reid 2.0. Very good coach who's had a lot of success but who's time has come and gone. I have no doubt that this will be McCarthy's end in Green Bay. I also have no doubt that he will go on to another team and be successful as well. Sometimes franchises and coaches just need a change of scenery.  Nothing against McCarthy. He's brought a lot of success to GB and I'm very thankful for that. It's just time.

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On 11/16/2018 at 4:58 PM, sho nuff said:

Yeah D has kept them in games like yesterday and against the rams and patriots.  They run out of a gas a bit at the end...not unexpected woth the patchwork bunch he is working with.

Amd whether it’s Gute now or TT...that we have gotten rid of all of our safeties has been a failure.  Hyde, Burnett, and HaHa...that position needs serious attention.

I'm pretty sure the plan was to  move one of the many secondary talents they've recently drafted to safety next year - probably Josh Jackson.  Safety is a much easier position to find than cornerback and they just didn't believe HaHa was worth $10m+ per year.  I don't blame them.  They have a lot of other talents to pay.  Martinez , Fackrell, and Clark are looking like fantastic talents.  Clark is gonna get paid.  He's really developed. 

 

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5 hours ago, Phenomena said:

I'm pretty sure the plan was to  move one of the many secondary talents they've recently drafted to safety next year - probably Josh Jackson.  Safety is a much easier position to find than cornerback and they just didn't believe HaHa was worth $10m+ per year.  I don't blame them.  They have a lot of other talents to pay.  Martinez , Fackrell, and Clark are looking like fantastic talents.  Clark is gonna get paid.  He's really developed. 

 

They shouldn't have spent a 2nd round pick on Josh Jackson if they plan to move him to safety.

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On 11/19/2018 at 7:29 AM, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Well, one last chance to save the season.  Looks like we are going to go into Minnesota short handed due to injuries.  There has been no real indication that the Packers can do this, yet I hope. n 

They win on Sunday and the Bears lose without Trubisky tomorrow.  Bears schedule has been kind to them; they're not that good.  It gets much easier down the stretch for you guys and especially with the way offenses and QBs are treated these days, a red hot Rodgers could go on a roll.  None of the top teams have great D's.  As is this case with suspect D's, the team has vulnerability, no matter how good the O.  Rodgers can match strides against those D's for sure, as we saw in LA 3 weeks ago.  GB wins that game, or the Patriots game, and a lot would be seen differently right now.

The Saints, Rams and Chiefs look all-world, and the Patriots will make their stand, but all have warts on D.  I'm not a Packers fan by any means, I was just looking at which team is capable of coming out of the woodwork these last 6 games and surprising.  The difference between the Packers and the current darlings isn't much, and so they are my dark horse going down the stretch.  Good luck!  

Oh, and they happen to be a whopping 65 - 1 to win the Superbowl.  Curious, what were you to start the season?

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Not a MN fan, but feel like there's potential here for a serious MN whoopin. 

D was shaky early in the season, but looked like nails later in the game against CHI. No J. Graham. X. Rhodes on D. Adams. Not a prime matchup for A. Jones and the running game, MN at home.

If this banged up D and Rodgers can pull this off I'll be super impressed.

 

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On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 11:28 AM, KingPrawn said:

McCarthy is Andy Reid 2.0. Very good coach who's had a lot of success but who's time has come and gone. I have no doubt that this will be McCarthy's end in Green Bay. I also have no doubt that he will go on to another team and be successful as well. Sometimes franchises and coaches just need a change of scenery.  Nothing against McCarthy. He's brought a lot of success to GB and I'm very thankful for that. It's just time.

Not sure about this.  Watching Andy Reid on Monday night he seems to have adapted to the new NFL.  Granted he has some great weapons in KC I'm just not sure what kind of situation MM is going to get into with better weapons than he has in GB.  MM issue is his stubbornness and refusal to adapt to the NFL played in 2018. 

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3 hours ago, Pipes said:

Not sure about this.  Watching Andy Reid on Monday night he seems to have adapted to the new NFL.  Granted he has some great weapons in KC I'm just not sure what kind of situation MM is going to get into with better weapons than he has in GB.  MM issue is his stubbornness and refusal to adapt to the NFL played in 2018. 

He can go join Fisher on his couch. That's where they can both do the most for the NFL.

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13 hours ago, Pipes said:

Not sure about this.  Watching Andy Reid on Monday night he seems to have adapted to the new NFL.  Granted he has some great weapons in KC I'm just not sure what kind of situation MM is going to get into with better weapons than he has in GB.  MM issue is his stubbornness and refusal to adapt to the NFL played in 2018. 

That's very true. Reid learned to adapt in KC. Not sure if McCarthy has the ability to do so.

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9 hours ago, KingPrawn said:

That's very true. Reid learned to adapt in KC. Not sure if McCarthy has the ability to do so.

He doesn't appear to so far.

Word around GB is that McCarthy will be in Cleveland next year.   And that is the word around Cleveland too - that McCarthy will be there next year.   Would love to see him reunited with D Randall.

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54 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

He doesn't appear to so far.

Word around GB is that McCarthy will be in Cleveland next year.   And that is the word around Cleveland too - that McCarthy will be there next year.   Would love to see him reunited with D Randall.

Can't imagine Dorsey makes that mistake.

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2 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

He doesn't appear to so far.

Word around GB is that McCarthy will be in Cleveland next year.   And that is the word around Cleveland too - that McCarthy will be there next year.   Would love to see him reunited with D Randall.

I think people are connecting the dots because of the GB connections. Who knows if there really is anything there. It will be all about Baker Mayfield's development in Cleveland. Is McCarthy the best fit there? I would think he's gotta be in serious consideration for that reason.  I would think Dorsey brings in a new guy though.

Can't lay all this poor season on McCarthy though. TT let this roster deplete. Couple of drafts in a row where GB got nothing really.

I think the old axiom of it is better to let a player go a year too early rather than a year too late applies to both McCarthy and Thompson here. Both were very good and brought a lot of success to GB. But I think in today's NFL you need to stay fresh and young.

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Gotta love one thing about Rodney Harrison, he won't sugar coat a turd. He just threw Philbin under the bus as someone needs to. No reason that incompetent clown should hold a position as important as OC on any team. The guy has no creativity at all.

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I don't see a quick fix for this team.  The defense is a mess.  The O line, aging.  They have too much money in Rodgers, Matthews, Graham, Perry, Daniels and Cobb.  McCarthy has lost the team and Philbin is unimaginative.  With their remaining schedule they are likely to hurt their draft position.  This is a rebuild now.  Trade Aaron.  Cut or trade the others mentioned. Tank the season, including sitting Rodgers "so that his knee can recover". (Excuse to keep him healthy and tradable)

 

I am sick of injuries, excuses, low football I.Q., and the players caring less than do the fans.  This is no longer a fluke, this is a pattern, everything, injuries included.

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44 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

I don't see a quick fix for this team.  The defense is a mess.  The O line, aging.  They have too much money in Rodgers, Matthews, Graham, Perry, Daniels and Cobb.  McCarthy has lost the team and Philbin is unimaginative.  With their remaining schedule they are likely to hurt their draft position.  This is a rebuild now.  Trade Aaron.  Cut or trade the others mentioned. Tank the season, including sitting Rodgers "so that his knee can recover". (Excuse to keep him healthy and tradable)

 

I am sick of injuries, excuses, low football I.Q., and the players caring less than do the fans.  This is no longer a fluke, this is a pattern, everything, injuries included.

The D is held together by elmers at this point.  I think they have been admirable and Pettine has done a decent job given the personnel.

Agreed on money with those guys...Matthews has been decent and come back on...but still way too highly paid.  Daniels IMO is worth it.  Up the middle guys that can pressure are huge in today's league.  I think he, Clark and Lowry can be a really good front.

I disagree on trading Rodgers.

But yeah, there are a lot of problems on this team.  It will start with MM...and Rodgers needs to majorly think if throwing 1 INT all year is so great of a stat to never take a chance.

 

As for tonight...Fs to most of the guys out there.  Jaire was flying around and in good coverage...he and Clark never gave up tonight.  They would be two of the few positives.

Edited by sho nuff
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7 hours ago, sho nuff said:

The D is held together by elmers at this point.  I think they have been admirable and Pettine has done a decent job given the personnel.

Agreed on money with those guys...Matthews has been decent and come back on...but still way too highly paid.  Daniels IMO is worth it.  Up the middle guys that can pressure are huge in today's league.  I think he, Clark and Lowry can be a really good front.

I disagree on trading Rodgers.

But yeah, there are a lot of problems on this team.  It will start with MM...and Rodgers needs to majorly think if throwing 1 INT all year is so great of a stat to never take a chance.

 

As for tonight...Fs to most of the guys out there.  Jaire was flying around and in good coverage...he and Clark never gave up tonight.  They would be two of the few positives.

Yes, MM needs to go

Regarding the cap, we will have a LOT of cap space next year to go after some quick fixes. I dont doubt this GM does that. Because once Rodgers is done, unless we get lucky again we are likely headed for a few years of misery, so who cares if we mortgage the future for now. 

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Currently the Packers have a worse record than the Dolphins, Bengals, Titans, Broncos and Eagles, are tied with the Browns, and are a half game ahead of the Bills and the Lions.  that is massively disturbing. 

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1 hour ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Currently the Packers have a worse record than the Dolphins, Bengals, Titans, Broncos and Eagles, are tied with the Browns, and are a half game ahead of the Bills and the Lions.  that is massively disturbing. 

I look at it as an opportunity for improvement, potential nice draft slot in a draft that has some great defenders, OL, and wide receivers. MM is likely gone. Bring in some fresh blood with a fresh outlook on the offense. One down year to go all in for the next 2-3 is worth it IMO

 

 

On a side note, what is going on with Rodgers? How many times is he going to throw a terrible long pass to these guys? One play in particular, and I think I turned off after it, was 3rd and 6 or 4 or something, and Rodgers throws a long bomb down the left sideline to Adams and completely misses him. It was as if he was pressured and needed to get rid of the ball, but that wasn't the case; he had plenty of time. That play is the epitome of Rodgers' season. 

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No Fun League Stats w/ The Pack

This is my own VERY cursory look into the Green Bay Packers stats through 11 games in the 2018 season (4-6-1).  This is not intended to be an all-inclusive deep dive – just things that stuck out to me.  Enjoy?

Overall

The Green Bay Packers have as many wins (4) as the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Cleveland Browns, and Buffalo Bills.

Defense

Blake Martinez has more than double the combined tackles (tackles + assists) as the next defender (97 – Jaire Alexander has 44).  Yet seldomly used Antonio Morrison has 38.

Reggie Gilbert has as many sacks as Clay Matthews (2.5) but he has more passes defensed and fumbles recovered (1 each to Clay’s 0).

Raven Green leads the team in forced fumbles (2).  Yes, Raven Green.

Ha Ha Clinton-Dix has been in Washington for a while, but he still has more combined tackles as a Packer (27) than Kyrel Fackrell (26), Nick Perry (24), Josh Jones (23), Mike Daniels (18), and Kevin King (17).  He also has two more interceptions than any other player (3).

Offense

As expected, Davante Adams leads the team in receiving yards (1,022) and touchdown catches (10).  No other Packer has 500 receiving yards or more than two touchdown catches!

Ty Montgomery is now in Baltimore, but he still has more receiving yards (170) than Equanimeous St. Brown (162), Aaron Jones (141) and Lance Kendricks (117).

Aaron Jones only has ten more carries than Jamaal Williams (84 to 74) but has almost double the rushing yardage (534 to 275).

DeShone Kizer has thrown as many interceptions as Aaron Rodgers (1).  ARod has attempted 385 passes – Kizer has thrown 7.

Aaron Rodgers has thrown the ball away 47 times this season.  The Saints Drew Brees has 82 incompletions…total.

Coaching

Choose your own adventure: It’s 4th and 1 and the Packers have the ball in opposition territory down 4.

Punt.  Play the field position game in a league where most teams can move the ball up and down the field.

Go for it.  Be aggressive with your decision making, but be sure to call a run straight up the middle against a stacked line.

Let the play clock run down and call time out.  They probably won’t be needed later on anyway.

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