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Dr. Dan

Indefinite Green Bay Packers Thread

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22 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

On a side note, what is going on with Rodgers? How many times is he going to throw a terrible long pass to these guys? One play in particular, and I think I turned off after it, was 3rd and 6 or 4 or something, and Rodgers throws a long bomb down the left sideline to Adams and completely misses him. It was as if he was pressured and needed to get rid of the ball, but that wasn't the case; he had plenty of time. That play is the epitome of Rodgers' season. 

If it is the play I am thinking of, Rodgers had the defense offsides and he pretty much always goes deep in those “free play” situations.  What seems different to me this year is how rarely he connects on those.

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2 minutes ago, Arodin said:

If it is the play I am thinking of, Rodgers had the defense offsides and he pretty much always goes deep in those “free play” situations.  What seems different to me this year is how rarely he connects on those.

If he did, there wasn't a flag thrown and he didn't protest. 

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So Let’s play the what if game. So if McCarthy gets fired who would you like to see replace him? Also, do you think we replace everyone or just the head coach/offensive coordinator.

I have not been thinking of an individual person, but I kind of would like to see the old fashion West Coast offense. Go back to a lot of Quick strike slants things that you know you get the ball out quick break a tackle and get long gainers. But it also had its share of long throws as well so I think it would keep Rogers happy and the fact that he’d still be able to go deep.

I really don’t think anybody runs that Bill Walsh style offense anymore, maybe small parts of it but I still think it’s effective it’s approved for ever to work and if you have a superstar quarterback running the show I think it would be good.

The one plus about it is, Rogers is a book worm/film room type person, so I have no concerns if we tear down the offense and restart it from scratch by the first game Rogers will have it down and know it like the back of his hand.

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I’m not too worried about the defense... other than missed tackles. If Pettine can’t fix that, replace him too.

D line is very good already. Adams and Lowry are starting to contribute.

ILBs are fine, that’s not a position you have to invest in heavily. Burks was supposed to be the good coverage guy...

OLB needs an overhaul. Perry’s contract means he’s probably around through 2019. Draft, trade, FA, whatever—just get some good edge rushers. Nice to see Fackrell contributing but he should remain a rotational guy.

Safety – need a real FS. SS could use an upgrade but isn’t that bad. FA market was cheap last year so who knows.

CB – they invested a lot here already and have to hope King and Jackson can play. Alexander is good.

On offense, Right Guard desperately needs “an upgrade” i.e. competence. At TE, maybe Tonyan is good. If not, add some young talent there. I could see adding a veteran WR. OL depth would be nice! Other than that the lineup is fine.

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59 minutes ago, The Claymaker said:

So Let’s play the what if game. So if McCarthy gets fired who would you like to see replace him? Also, do you think we replace everyone or just the head coach/offensive coordinator.

I have not been thinking of an individual person, but I kind of would like to see the old fashion West Coast offense. Go back to a lot of Quick strike slants things that you know you get the ball out quick break a tackle and get long gainers. But it also had its share of long throws as well so I think it would keep Rogers happy and the fact that he’d still be able to go deep.

I really don’t think anybody runs that Bill Walsh style offense anymore, maybe small parts of it but I still think it’s effective it’s approved for ever to work and if you have a superstar quarterback running the show I think it would be good.

The one plus about it is, Rogers is a book worm/film room type person, so I have no concerns if we tear down the offense and restart it from scratch by the first game Rogers will have it down and know it like the back of his hand.

I would let that coach bring in his guys, so yes, clear it all out if that coach wants to. 

 

I've always been a fan of Josh McDaniels TBH. A lot of people don't like him and that's fine. Another possibility would be an assistant from one of the better offenses in the league; offenses that have adapted to today's NFL. Maybe Carmichael, LaFleur, DeFlillipo

Edited by Dr. Dan

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Bruce Arians. I know he just said Cleveland is the only team he would come out of retirement for but Arians is too much of a pro to come out and lobby for a job that's not open. 

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9 hours ago, Dark Matter said:

Bruce Arians. I know he just said Cleveland is the only team he would come out of retirement for but Arians is too much of a pro to come out and lobby for a job that's not open. 

I do not want retreads absent maybe Reid or Sean Payton.  Give me a hot young coordinator not named Josh McDaniels or get a college guy on the rise. It's a new NFL, move forward, not backward or sideways.

 

How about Dabo Sweeney as Head Coach with Jim Leonhard as D-Coordinator.

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders
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Just now, Ditkaless Wonders said:

I do not want retreads absent maybe Reid or Sean Payton.  Give me a hot young coordinator not named Josh Daniels or get a college guy on the rise. It s a new NFL, move forward, not backward or sideways.

Agree with that. I'm not sure I'd want to go college, but at this point I wouldn't blame GB for trying to think outside of the box; worked out great for LAR

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5 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

If he did, there wasn't a flag thrown and he didn't protest. 

That was a different pass. The one in question, there was pressure and he just chuked it off his back foot as he was backing up. When he threw it I was like 'wtf are you doing'. It had virtually no chance of being completed or caught by anyone...which may have been his plan, maybe get a flag for interference. 

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1 hour ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

I do not want retreads absent maybe Reid or Sean Payton.  Give me a hot young coordinator not named Josh Daniels or get a college guy on the rise. It s a new NFL, move forward, not backward or sideways.

Agreed. Arians would be one of the few retreads worth it but he could retire a year later. Rolling the dice on a college coach that is putting up big O is better than bringing in another Philbin type loser.

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2 minutes ago, lod001 said:

That was a different pass. The one in question, there was pressure and he just chuked it off his back foot as he was backing up. When he threw it I was like 'wtf are you doing'. It had virtually no chance of being completed or caught by anyone...which may have been his plan, maybe get a flag for interference. 

My reaction as well. I thought there was moderate pressure- not like he was about to get sacked instantly. 

I feel like I've seen so many of those passes. Last week he consistently passed up on Aaron Jones check downs to throw these awful passes deep to nobody. At least completing the pass you have a shot at getting the 1st down. 

Rodgers used to throw those deep passes inside of a garbage can. Maybe it starts with the OL giving him enough time to not rush his throws. I'm not exactly sure. He certainly hasn't looked comfortable in the pocket all season long. And frustrated with the play calling. It's clear this team is a bottom 50% team. The coach has lost the players. It's time to move on.

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7 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

I look at it as an opportunity for improvement, potential nice draft slot in a draft that has some great defenders, OL, and wide receivers. MM is likely gone. Bring in some fresh blood with a fresh outlook on the offense. One down year to go all in for the next 2-3 is worth it IMO

 

 

On a side note, what is going on with Rodgers? How many times is he going to throw a terrible long pass to these guys? One play in particular, and I think I turned off after it, was 3rd and 6 or 4 or something, and Rodgers throws a long bomb down the left sideline to Adams and completely misses him. It was as if he was pressured and needed to get rid of the ball, but that wasn't the case; he had plenty of time. That play is the epitome of Rodgers' season. 

Agreed on all counts.  It wasn't just the missed pass to Adams for the TD when he was wide open.  That pass where as you said he acted like he was being pressured when none was there and he threw it nowhere near Adams who was being covered one on one.  Didn't even give him a chance to try and get it.

He seems more interested in not throwing INTs than really completing passes right now.  Odd to go from gunslinger to someone who seems too careful sometimes.

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1 hour ago, KingPrawn said:

The article captures what I have been saying here for over two years.  Rodgers has fallen in love with his own myth.  It is a major problem.  Throw the damn ball on rhythm.   Oh, and for those who are going to tell me that his receivers are covered, I say, bull####.  Receivers with route options are always open in one direction.  If they are being trailed they are open ahead. if being under-routed they are open over.  The only way they are covered is if each eligible receiver is covered by two men, and if that is the case I believe Rodgers and his five O-linemen would do quite well running the ball on the single defender rushing the Q.B.

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders
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No heart.  Such a sad way to end an era, losing, at home, in December, in the snow, to one of the worst teams in football.  That makes us one of the worst teams in football. We have a 35 year old Q.B. with an exorbitant contract who is displaying little.  We have two  overpaid L.B.'s, one receiver, and a right tackle who is cooked.  We have a Kicker who is aging and no longer clutch.

3rd and 23.  3rd and #######g 23.

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5 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

No heart.  Such a sad way to end an era, losing, at home, in December, in the snow, to one of the worst teams in football.  That makes us one of the worst teams in football. We have a 35 year old Q.B. with an exorbitant contract who is displaying little.  We have two  overpaid L.B.'s, one receiver, and a right tackle who is cooked.  We have a Kicker who is aging and no longer clutch.

3rd and 23.  3rd and #######g 23.

Yep, shocking how far the Packers have fallen.  I'd not have thought it possible with Rodgers at the helm.  But the whole snow, cold, December thing used to be such a huge advantage vs. warm-weather teams like Arizona.  Almost seemed the other way round today.  And vs. a rookie QB too.

 

Maybe the biggest surprise of this season.

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7 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

No heart.  Such a sad way to end an era, losing, at home, in December, in the snow, to one of the worst teams in football.  That makes us one of the worst teams in football. We have a 35 year old Q.B. with an exorbitant contract who is displaying little.  We have two  overpaid L.B.'s, one receiver, and a right tackle who is cooked.  We have a Kicker who is aging and no longer clutch.

3rd and 23.  3rd and #######g 23.

Unreal.   We've given up huge 3rd and 4th down plays throughout the recent history of this franchise.  Never seen another team so consistently fail and 3rd or 4th and long.

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This team has zero playmakers on it. Rodgers is not what he used to be but you could see that last year. The play calling is terrible. We refuse to feed the running back when averaging 6+ yards a carry.
The front office, while not wanting to mortgage the future, have failed to put more talent on this team and wasted having the best QB in the league and a chance for multiple titles as well. I think it's time to blow it up. How can we not have any speed/quick guys? Those types are a dime a dozen in the NFL. Lord a year ago we had Lacy and the change of pace was Starks 😂 . Look at New England, they drop and grab those quick players every year for cheap. 

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1 hour ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

No heart.  Such a sad way to end an era, losing, at home, in December, in the snow, to one of the worst teams in football.  That makes us one of the worst teams in football. We have a 35 year old Q.B. with an exorbitant contract who is displaying little.  We have two  overpaid L.B.'s, one receiver, and a right tackle who is cooked.  We have a Kicker who is aging and no longer clutch.

3rd and 23.  3rd and #######g 23.

This what surprised me the most. For a team playing for their playoff lives, the effort was very very weak. Players have quit. Thanks for your time Coach McCarthy but it's time to move on.

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11 minutes ago, Papa Georgio said:

This team has zero playmakers on it. Rodgers is not what he used to be but you could see that last year. The play calling is terrible. We refuse to feed the running back when averaging 6+ yards a carry.
The front office, while not wanting to mortgage the future, have failed to put more talent on this team and wasted having the best QB in the league and a chance for multiple titles as well. I think it's time to blow it up. How can we not have any speed/quick guys? Those types are a dime a dozen in the NFL. Lord a year ago we had Lacy and the change of pace was Starks 😂 . Look at New England, they drop and grab those quick players every year for cheap. 

Complete disagree on playmakers.  Adams is a playmaker and Jones could be in the right offense.  McCarthy doesn’t know how to use him.

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16 minutes ago, Papa Georgio said:

This team has zero playmakers on it. 

Before people start hurting themselves jumping off the non-existent bandwagon...Davante Adams and Aaron Jones are big-time playmakers.

 

Kumerow too. 😜

Edited by trader jake
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As much as I hate McCarthy right now Rodgers needs to pull his head out of his ### and look hard in the mirror.  He was off target all day especially that last drive where they could’ve easily picked up another 20 yards if he hits guys in stride.  Short throws too and don’t give me the rookie WR bit we’re well into the season now.

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34 minutes ago, Pipes said:

As much as I hate McCarthy right now Rodgers needs to pull his head out of his ### and look hard in the mirror.  He was off target all day especially that last drive where they could’ve easily picked up another 20 yards if he hits guys in stride.  Short throws too and don’t give me the rookie WR bit we’re well into the season now.

Yeah that throw to Cobb was terrible. Hit him in stride and there was another 20 yards for a much easier FG attempt.

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1 hour ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Unreal.   We've given up huge 3rd and 4th down plays throughout the recent history of this franchise.  Never seen another team so consistently fail and 3rd or 4th and long.

And the inability to convert 3rd and 5 or less right now.

 

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47 minutes ago, Pipes said:

As much as I hate McCarthy right now Rodgers needs to pull his head out of his ### and look hard in the mirror.  He was off target all day especially that last drive where they could’ve easily picked up another 20 yards if he hits guys in stride.  Short throws too and don’t give me the rookie WR bit we’re well into the season now.

I’ve been saying it for weeks...McCarthy needs to go too...but Rodgers play this year has been bad.  Seems so afraid to throw an INT that we settle for crap.

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2 minutes ago, Fan of Charles McCoy said:

I agree on the Rodgers comments in here. I was stunned when GB paid him like they did. Basically paying him for past performance just to be nice or something?

No, while it’s been bad this year...there was no real indication here.  I don’t think he is done or anything.  

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Best wishes to Coach McCarthy. He brought us a Vince Lombardi Trophy. Thought he deserved the respect to at least finish out the season. You don't gain anything by making the change now. But it was time for a change. Just thought it would come at the end of the season.

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I wanted Green Bay to part ways with coach McCarthy.  Not sure I feel good about firing him before the season is over.

I get it's a business.  He did bring a Lombardi trophy to GB.  

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20 minutes ago, Cheese and Crackers said:

It was Murphy wielding the sword, Gute did not have the authority.

 

I assume Murphy did it now because he I’d on the hot seat too.

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Just now, Johnnymac said:

I wanted Green Bay to part ways with coach McCarthy.  Not sure I feel good about firing him before the season is over.

I get it's a business.  He did bring a Lombardi trophy to GB.  

I agree with Howie Long comparing it to Reid in Philly.  MM is still a decent coach, too stubborn at times, but he lost the locker room.  Time for a change.  I feel MM will be end up on his feet and get a decent gig next year.  

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13 minutes ago, Pipes said:

I agree with Howie Long comparing it to Reid in Philly.  MM is still a decent coach, too stubborn at times, but he lost the locker room.  Time for a change.  I feel MM will be end up on his feet and get a decent gig next year.  

I agree to an extent. He's a decent coach but he's not in the same league as Reid. He's just incredibly stubborn, just refuses to adapt or make changes. Probably called Capers to hire him to be his DC already.

Edited by voiceofunreason
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3 hours ago, Fan of Charles McCoy said:

I agree on the Rodgers comments in here. I was stunned when GB paid him like they did. Basically paying him for past performance just to be nice or something?

There was a time this summer when, seemingly out of nowhere, it became absolutely imperative that the Packers extend Rodgers. Ryan got his deal, and we all knew it was a priority to make 12 the highest paid player in all of football, which of course is what we did. His contract exceeds Ryan at #2 by over $20mil. 

I heard Rob Reischel make an interesting point on the radio this week. With two years left on his contract, and 2 years of franchise tags, the team had the player locked up for 4 years. He’d be 39 then. He’d be unhappy, to be sure, but still paid very well under a contract he was very happy to sign. The club had all the leverage in the world this summer. Your characterization I think is correct - they paid him for past performance to be nice. 

Edited by CletiusMaximus
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4 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

There was a time this summer when, seemingly out of nowhere, it became absolutely imperative that the Packers extend Rodgers. Ryan got his deal, and we all knew it was a priority to make 12 the highest paid player in all of football, which of course is what we did. His contract exceeds Ryan at #2 by over $20mil. 

I heard Rob Reischel make an interesting point on the radio this week. With two years left on his contract, and 2 years of franchise tags, the team had the player locked up for 4 years. He’d be 39 then. He’d be unhappy, to be sure, but still paid very well under a contract he was very happy to sign. The club had all the leverage in the world this summer. Your characterization I think is correct - they paid him for past performance to be nice. 

Correct. But to be fair he'll presumably be named their next head coach

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3 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

There was a time this summer when, seemingly out of nowhere, it became absolutely imperative that the Packers extend Rodgers. Ryan got his deal, and we all knew it was a priority to make 12 the highest paid player in all of football, which of course is what we did. His contract exceeds Ryan at #2 by over $20mil. 

I heard Rob Reischel make an interesting point on the radio this week. With two years left on his contract, and 2 years of franchise tags, the team had the player locked up for 4 years. He’d be 39 then. He’d be unhappy, to be sure, but still paid very well under a contract he was very happy to sign. The club had all the leverage in the world this summer. Your characterization I think is correct - they paid him for past performance to be nice. 

Some guys who weren’t paid on past performance

Watkins, Bradford, anybody Al Davis signed.

Its kind of stupid. Franchise qbs get paid and Rodgers is still young for a qb. 

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If Rodgers is resurgent I am going to suspect him of tanking just to get his way and get McCarthy out, in which case I will hate him for tanking the whole organization just to appease his own ego.  If he does not show improvement I do not see how they can build around him with any hope and they will not be able to trade him as his contract is enourmous and his play is calling into question his value.

Toward the end Favre became the problem. He was bigger than the organization and tried to hold it hostage, threatening retirement if they did not do exactly what he wanted, and unfortunately Favre was no rocket scientist.  Now Rodgers appears poised to make the same mistake.  He wants to run things.  The problem is that active players lack perspective on the team as a whole, almost, but not quite always.  This is possibly not his fault. Likely McCarthy made him insane, but he has lost it.  Just as I advocated trading Favre before it was too late, which it got to, so to have I advocated trading Rodgers while he had incredible value. His value now decreases with every game. He needs a clean slate and so do we.  I know this opinion will draw much ire, I get it, I love him too, just as I did Starr, who I also wanted gone before he embarrassed himself, and just as I wanted Favre gone.

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You guys need to relax. Rodgers hasn't been his best this year but there is still no other QB I would rather have. 

He will be fine. The offense is too predictable and predicated on beating matchups plus the line holding up. 

I imagine that Rodgers will make the HC job pretty enticing. This team has some major problems but Rodgers isn't one of them. 

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13 hours ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

If Rodgers is resurgent I am going to suspect him of tanking just to get his way and get McCarthy out, in which case I will hate him for tanking the whole organization just to appease his own ego.  If he does not show improvement I do not see how they can build around him with any hope and they will not be able to trade him as his contract is enourmous and his play is calling into question his value.

Toward the end Favre became the problem. He was bigger than the organization and tried to hold it hostage, threatening retirement if they did not do exactly what he wanted, and unfortunately Favre was no rocket scientist.  Now Rodgers appears poised to make the same mistake.  He wants to run things.  The problem is that active players lack perspective on the team as a whole, almost, but not quite always.  This is possibly not his fault. Likely McCarthy made him insane, but he has lost it.  Just as I advocated trading Favre before it was too late, which it got to, so to have I advocated trading Rodgers while he had incredible value. His value now decreases with every game. He needs a clean slate and so do we.  I know this opinion will draw much ire, I get it, I love him too, just as I did Starr, who I also wanted gone before he embarrassed himself, and just as I wanted Favre gone.

Lol, so in other words, no matter what Rodgers does he is the problem.  Not the fact that there have been over 70% passes called on offense this year or the bizarre usage of Aaron Jones or several other coaching decisions that Rodgers has no control over (including most of the play calling...he is not calling that many audibles from what I can tell from watching the TV) that have been thoroughly discussed in this thread. 

You have been bashing Rodgers for the last two months....always with an insinuation that he is not playing his best on purpose and is all about his ego.  And now not only is he tanking but he is doing it to get back at .....McCarthy? .... fans? .....Rodgers has not played to his level of the past but to think someone that is as competitive as he is would toss games says a lot more about your decision making and ego than Rodgers.

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To flesh out my first response further....by your statement.  If Rodgers plays better than he was tanking to get McCarthy fired and stroke his ego.  If Rodgers plays poorly, it is because of his ego and caring too much about running the organization.  You frankly don't deserve to have Rodgers QB your team.  I would guess 26 of the NFL teams would take him off your hands even if he only has 3-4 more years of high level play.

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7 minutes ago, Ksquared said:

Lol, so in other words, no matter what Rodgers does he is the problem.  Not the fact that there have been over 70% passes called on offense this year or the bizarre usage of Aaron Jones or several other coaching decisions that Rodgers has no control over (including most of the play calling...he is not calling that many audibles from what I can tell from watching the TV) that have been thoroughly discussed in this thread. 

You have been bashing Rodgers for the last two months....always with an insinuation that he is not playing his best on purpose and is all about his ego.  And now not only is he tanking but he is doing it to get back at .....McCarthy? .... fans? .....Rodgers has not played to his level of the past but to think someone that is as competitive as he is would toss games says a lot more about your decision making and ego than Rodgers.

I am confident that yours will be the more popular take on the situation.

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13 hours ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Toward the end Favre became the problem. He was bigger than the organization and tried to hold it hostage...

Pretty common tale, no? Favre, Manning, Montana, Esiason, others had to be shown the door for becoming upset with the future plans of "their" franchises. Seeing forms of this now with Roethlisberger and maybe even the reason Jimmy G had to be traded out of New England.

Rogers got his way (for now)... and soon the Packers will draft his successor (like they did with him under Favre) and we'll see how he handles that.

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These problems already existed but Ty Montgomery’s fumble was the catalyst. He might as well have dropped McCarthy’s decapitated head on the LA Coliseum turf. Coming out of the bye, McCarthy had them up for a huge game and they played the NFL’s best team to essentially a draw after 58 minutes. After that…

Three good quarters in New England, followed by an Aaron Jones fumble and faceplant of a fourth quarter.

In Seattle, a very good first half and dreadful second half.

In Minnesota, a decent first half and bad second half.

Yesterday, all bad.

RIP in pepperonis

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