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Dr. Dan

Indefinite Green Bay Packers Thread

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I've not watched one minute of preseason, and have read almost nothing about the Packers, but will say this -- regardless of all the discussion of all the different position groups, the season hangs almost 100% on #12 staying healthy and returning to a pro-bowl level of play (I know he technically made the pro bowl last season.)  What are the odds that happens?  He's turning 36 this year, and has been injured most of the last two seasons (he played through injury most of last season.)  One year ago, the Packers gave him a four-year extension valued at $130+ mil with a $50+ mil signing bonus.

For me, it is criminally negligent not to have drafted or signed a quarterback with the upside capability to be Rodgers' successor at QB. That guy is not on the roster today, but should be. Most of us are old enough to remember Ron Wolf almost always having a capable back-up to Favre, even knowing he would never miss a game.  Detmer, Brooks, Hasslebeck, Pederson, Rodgers.  Backup QB is the biggest hole on this team right now, and is by far my biggest concern.

 

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3 hours ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Backup QB is the biggest hole on this team right now, and is by far my biggest concern.

Not sure it should be.  Agree the back-up QB spot is less than ideal, but I'm not sure how much it matters.  If ARod goes down with another injury the team is in trouble either way.  Unlike when Wolf was around, the QB spot has become a top40 pick or pass on it altogether position.

Of more immediate concern to me is the lack of quality depth in the front 7.  Seems one injury away from some major question marks.  Maybe Pettite can hide issues more in year 2 of the scheme, but that's the unit I'm most concerned about.

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4 hours ago, trader jake said:

 

Of more immediate concern to me is the lack of quality depth in the front 7.  Seems one injury away from some major question marks.  Maybe Pettite can hide issues more in year 2 of the scheme, but that's the unit I'm most concerned about.

They already have a major question mark at inside LB due to injuries.

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1 hour ago, Chicago Hooligan said:

LB Brandon Marshall is available but I wouldn't be excited if they added him:

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-broncos-expected-to-push-lb-brandon-marshall-into-free-agency-in-2019

Rooting for WR Darrius Shepherd to make the roster despite last night's fumble.

Yeah...I like Shepherd.  

Adams, Allison, MVS are locks...Kumerow and Davis seem to be near locks...the question is if they keep 6...who is 6?  Do they try 7?

And do they keep 4 TEs (Graham, Lewis, Tonyan, Stern)?

Hard to have 11 guys tied up at those positions if they keep Vitale at FB as well.  Would hurt depth elsewhere.

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So after the initial 53...my thoughts.

Offensively I feel good.  My initial questions on the WRs have turned into liking the depth there.  Keep Rodgers healthy and this group should put up points.  OLine you just never know...the obvious is always the health of Bulaga.

Defense...secondary I feel ok...OLB i feel pretty good.  Elsewhere, Im worried about deprh.

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This defense is going to be fantastic. Great D Coordinator and versatile defenders. Pretty excited.

Offense needs to shake off rust especially Rodgers. Seemed to have happy feet even when the pocket was clean.

Hard not to be really optimistic about this season. We haven’t had a D like this in years.

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3 minutes ago, Balco said:

We haven’t had a D like this in years.

I'd pump the brakes on this one...they won't be facing the Bears every week.

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4 minutes ago, Statorama said:

I'd pump the brakes on this one...they won't be facing the Bears every week.

True but his statement still stands.  Of course that's not saying much with how crappy the defense has been the last 5 plus years.

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An ugly win...is still a win, and on the road, and against a division rival.

The good...yes, it was against the Bears...but the D was great.  Put pressure on the QB, and DBs were hitting and covering well for the most part.  Still improvement to be made...but a good start for that unit.  And seeing the free agents combine for 2.5 sacks and an INT is a nice nod to the GM.  All of that without really seeing Gary on the field (I think he played 6 snaps).  The Smiths on the outside were great together.  Savage and Jaire look to be a great pairing in the secondary for a while as well.  Need to develop that other corner spot though.  Tramon can get away with some of those veteran type moves and plays...but not sure how long that can last.

Special teams was good too...from kickoffs to Scott's punting.  I was worried after the first punt as it looked like we had nobody at first getting downfield the cover.  That got way better as the game went on.

Offensively...there wasn't a ton to be that excited about.  The good I saw of Rodgers was he seemed more apt to let the ball go even into coverage or tighter spaces (it was incomplete but an attempt at a back shoulder throw to M. Lewis who was well covered.  And the TD pass was because he trust Graham to come up with it or knock it down and saw mostly the backs of defenders not even watching.  Feels like last year he would have thrown that away.

The Oline was sloppy...too much pressure...too many penalties.  Seemed they had better luck on those one cut not stretched out running plays and got in trouble in the more finesse type looks (to be expected against an aggressive team like the Bears).  Rodgers was still rusty though...the ball to MVS was short...and several other short balls that he just didn't step into.  He is relying on what he used to be able to do throwing off of whatever foot and the ball isn't as zippy as it once was.

But...in the end...1-0

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22 minutes ago, Statorama said:

I'd pump the brakes on this one...they won't be facing the Bears every week.

Definitely not going to pump the brakes. They have built an impressive defense with players that can play multiple positions - this versatility is key to Petine’s scheme. This is going to be, health permitting, an upper echelon defensive unit. Seeing pressure brought from everywhere, with talented players bringing the pressure - it’s a beautiful thing.

I think offense is shaking off rust, but I have concerns especially after Allison’s no show in the slot.

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It’s hard to make Rodgers/Jones/Adams/Graham boring, but in retrospect it’s *possible LaFleur outcoached Nagy last night.

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So, its Friday.  Savoring a win helps the recovery day go smoother.  A bit of stretching and ice tubs or hot tubs, depending, some film review, and out the door for rest and recovery.  Meanwhile the Vikings are still installing their game plan for this week. in two days they will have their game, and in three they will be conducting the same process the Packers are enjoying now, though maybe without a win under their belts.  Also the will be enjoying the idea of travel to G.B. which shortens their week juuuust a tad.  There is an opportunity here, lets not miss answering the door as it is knocking.

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders
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It was nice to see Aaron processing and appreciating the opportunities that might come from a good defense.  He seemed very upbeat for the first time in a few years.  Maybe that's a good thing.  I think so.

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I'm happy to see they came out with a win. I feel more optimistic about the defense. They looked a lot faster than in the past. It's still early but maybe they have made the correct changes to become a good defense? Both teams struggled on offense and especially in the OL. Was this due to the limited game time in the preseason? I'm hoping that as they become more cohesive the offense will improve but they seem to be a long ways away from mid season form. 

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The other big negative...that pass interference challenge was awful.

And another that carries over from previous years...the need to take the play clock down to almost zero before every snap?

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15 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

The other big negative...that pass interference challenge was awful.

And another that carries over from previous years...the need to take the play clock down to almost zero before every snap?

I thought it was great defense. Challenge? I don't know. Nobody ever wins those, but I could see the opportunity.

 

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Happy with game last night, defense sure looks like a strong unit this year. Next week better test as Choke Vikings have better talent on offense than Bears. Packer offense was going to struggle this week because of the Bears D, but I did not think as much as it did. Issue on offense might be the interior line, it needs to block better in both pass and run game. This might be better against other teams and more time together in game conditions should let them grow.

Like that our play caller didnt just abandon the run after early plays didn't work. Also used a lot of 2 TE formations and TEs got into the passing game. The old play caller gave lip service to establishing the run game and using multiple TEs. But after couple bad runs we might not see any for a couple series. Using the run game kept the LBs and Safeties honest with play action plays. This offense will be fine as the season goes on with more time together and lesser defenses.

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Jaire Alexander is quickly becoming my favorite Packer.  Though I could see Darnell Savage pushing him for that spot. Love this secondary now just hope King can stay healthy....huge if I know.

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The other positive and maybe the lone one on the OLine...Bulaga played a hell of a game.

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I like that the Packers wake up this morning, just as they did Friday and Saturday, without a game to paly while the Vikings, our next opponent, are looking forward to a tough match-up today.  I don't wish the Vikings any injuries, but I do wish for them a long, exhausting game that leaves them stiff and sore for days and doubting themselves.  

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The Athletic coverage has been excellent imo. Articles by Fennel and Schneidman this week are very good, and of course Bob McGinn’s grades is always a worthwhile read. 

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Haven't read any of the grades for that game yet...but will say the interior OL should be ripped for that one.  Bulaga and Bakhtiari seemingly played pretty well...at least against Mack (minus Bakh's penalties).  Run blocking though was pretty poor.

Will be interesting to see how things go against Minnesota this week.  Another very stout D and an offense a bit better than we saw in Chicago who won't stray from the run like Nagy did.

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Faux News Headline:  Aaron Rodgers demands Green Bay Packers fans stop doing this one thing during home games.

Demands!  lol...😂

So, if Favre made comments about "it'd help if you didn't" do the wave when they're on offense, would it get as much attention?

 

Edited by Kleck

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On 9/10/2019 at 11:54 AM, sho nuff said:

Haven't read any of the grades for that game yet...but will say the interior OL should be ripped for that one.  Bulaga and Bakhtiari seemingly played pretty well...at least against Mack (minus Bakh's penalties).  Run blocking though was pretty poor.

Will be interesting to see how things go against Minnesota this week.  Another very stout D and an offense a bit better than we saw in Chicago who won't stray from the run like Nagy did.

McGinn's stuff is behind a paywall, so here are just a few snippets, cutting out the detailed comments.  As usual, I agree with Bob's OL analysis.

Quote

The best performer was Bulaga, the 10-year veteran whose health is of paramount importance again this season.

On the other side, David Bakhtiari needs to play a whole lot better than that. He was beaten by Floyd for a bull-rush sack in 3.0 seconds, allowed another but was saved by a penalty, drew two holding penalties and twice had problems with undersized OLB Isaiah Irving in his seven snaps.

Corey Linsley started poorly on the first two plays and posted a rather ugly stat line: three pressures, one “bad” run.

Turner didn’t look like a legitimate starter in his debut for Green Bay. He looks like another Band-Aid at right guard following Jahri Evans in 2017 and Byron Bell last season.

LG Lane Taylor allowed a bad bull rush sack to Roy Robertson-Harris on the third snap and had a team-high 2 ½ “bad” runs. Before long, rookie Elgton Jenkins is going to get the call at one of the guards.

 

 

 

 

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Rodgers isn't getting any younger. What brings the Packers closer to a championship? Improving an already solid looking defense with more depth and talent, or a late 2nd round pick next year? (that's what I've read the asking price is)

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Can we not put Jimmy Graham on a stud  any defensive player 1 on 1?

Otherwise, a W is a W. 

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tough to get a read on a team that has played two top defenses but 2-0, signs of a defense, though I wish they could catch the interceptions that are there, and a running game.  I am cautiously optimistic.  the Bronco defense coming up is also fairly good, though having a down year statistically on sacks, but that can change in the blink of an eye.  I hope the coaches are watching Bronco tape and realize that Left Tackle Garret Boles needs to be rushed constantly.  He will give up at least 2 sacks and will get at least 3 holding penalties if under any kind of pressure.  He is the weak link, to be certain. Keep showing a bit of improvement week to week.  First 10 points, then 21, now lets go for 31.  Oh, and stay healthy.

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Quite a difference in the first drives last week vs. this week.

And then things got sloppy.

Loved how the offense moved the ball those first drives (and really with the run game most of the game).  Rodgers was crisp early hitting guys all over the place.  Was a well designed game plan.  And the wheels came off a bit with mistakes...the fumble after the hit on Allison and the botched snap/exchange.  Not to get too McCarthy on it...but they "need to clean it up" seems to apply to this game.  

Defense...played well for most of the game.  But those big plays can't be excused.  Savage's angle on Cook was awful...getting gashed once by Don Beebe's son...and that deep ball to Diggs.  Alexander had a eye on it but needs to know the situation there (was third down I think).  Went for the INT while tracking across the field (was that King that was toasted?) and lost out.  If he just gets one hand out instead it likely falls incomplete and they punt.

Still...another win against the division is pretty sweet.

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3 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Quite a difference in the first drives last week vs. this week.

And then things got sloppy.

Loved how the offense moved the ball those first drives (and really with the run game most of the game).  Rodgers was crisp early hitting guys all over the place.  Was a well designed game plan.  And the wheels came off a bit with mistakes...the fumble after the hit on Allison and the botched snap/exchange.  Not to get too McCarthy on it...but they "need to clean it up" seems to apply to this game.  

Defense...played well for most of the game.  But those big plays can't be excused.  Savage's angle on Cook was awful...getting gashed once by Don Beebe's son...and that deep ball to Diggs.  Alexander had a eye on it but needs to know the situation there (was third down I think).  Went for the INT while tracking across the field (was that King that was toasted?) and lost out.  If he just gets one hand out instead it likely falls incomplete and they punt.

Still...another win against the division is pretty sweet.

Yep.  A win is a win.  “Holding serve” in the division is huge.

Packers D looked really good most of the game, but we just can’t give up 3 explosive plays like that.

The offense looked awesome until a) the Vikings adjusted, b) Rodgers stopped running the offense.  Same ####, different year.  In the first quarter, he ran the plays.  He didn’t let the play clock tick down to 0, they had rhythm, he got the ball out quickly.  Presto!  Good things happen.

And then Rodgers turned into......Rodgers. Play clock ticks down.  Audibles every other play.  Holds onto the ball.  Takes massive hits.  Gets sacked.  

Dude can still wing the ball......but his ego is the #1 reason the offense isn’t better. 

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In the previous 7 games against Minnesota, GB only won one (and tied one). This is a big win, although the Vikings played like chumps. I’m going to enjoy it.

Kevin King played all but 1 snap and appears to be at full strength (jinx?). Great INT after dropping one last week. Remember that as a team they only had what, 7 picks all last year? Big improvement in the secondary so far. Josh Jackson is only getting on the field for special teams.

Jenkins got snaps at LG and may be the starter there soon. Another tough pass rushing group will challenge the edges this week. Bulaga has been quietly very good. Bakhtiari wasn’t himself and I hope playing didn’t make his reported back injury worse.

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Quote

On Saturday, the Chiefs waived speedy return man Tremon Smith, who was a 6th-round draft pick in 2018. The Packers have acquired Smith via a waiver claim, adding some more speed and depth to the roster.

Smith played in 14 games for the Chiefs as a rookie in 2018, serving primarily as a return specialist. He returned 33 kickoffs for a total of 886 yards, an average of 26.8 yards per return that ranked him fourth among qualifying players.

RIP Trevor Davis? He had a good offseason but isn't showing much in the return game...

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37 minutes ago, Chicago Hooligan said:

RIP Trevor Davis? He had a good offseason but isn't showing much in the return game...

Maybe...but they would then add another player...he seems to be taking Greene's spot on the roster as secondary depth and the ability to return is nice too.

Not sure they cut Davis though.

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The Packers don't play an away game for 31 straight days between September 5th and October 6th.  That's crazy.

Wonder how many times this has ever happened in league history not counting a bye week.

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Came here to this Packer love fest to see if there was anyone admitting that Rodgers is slowing down and the offense just isn't what it used to be ("pedestrian" might be the word).  But I will acknowledge that they have played two top defenses - whom they have to play again later this year (during the  FF playoffs to boot).  Perhaps I should wait until the soft middle of the schedule to pass full judgement, but that still doesn't keep me from wanting to drop MVS for something shinier.  What you think Packer devotees?  Is MVS a hold as a WR4/5 in a 12 team redraft?  Injuries and upcoming byes have me nervous, I certainly don't feel comfortable throwing MVS out there now.  I thought as Rodgers #2 he would show better, but not.

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I think the problem with O is that Lafleur wants to utilize middle of field and incorporate tight ends and that is the weakest part of this O. (As an aside I like his offensive system, but you need personnel that fits). 

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would love for them to call Miami and ask about Kenyon Drake. Would be a nice tandem with Jones.

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If they were going to make moves...I would have thought it would have been one of the corners (though, I wouldn't have paid a first for Minkah and Im sure Ramsey's asking price would be just as high).

We aren't going to trade for a RB.  Williams...as pedestrian as some may think he is...is a good compliment to Jones.  He is the more power back.

As for the above question of Rodgers.  I don't think slowing down or arm strength is any issue (give the throws he has made the first two weeks).  And did the offense look pedestrian the first 3 drives?  Inconsistent is a good word right now.  And that is from top to bottom on the offense starting up front with the OL.  Great at times...porous at others it seems.  Is it more of the same of last year...or is it familiarity with the system and truely getting on the same page between the QB, rest of the offense, and coach?

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