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John Bolton, our old NSC- says he resigned, Trump says he’s fired. (1 Viewer)

Ruffrodys05 said:
Glad to see you're still with us....I'm sure it wasn't easy kicking the habit.
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Thanks. It was the easiest thing I ever did and I never looked back. I, unlike others, had the safety net of parents and home at twenty-seven or eight to have. I have less than "tough guy" sentiments about addiction and the pain that flows therefrom and the necessary and attendant services it requires (though mine was done on the sly and I simply dried out and never went back -- I am supremely, supremely lucky in that regard as I have been through rehab for other things, including alcohol, which has been the toughest), and have long since been relieved to see those of my political stripe come somewhat around on the issue, though certainly there are a lot of misconceptions and the general public still lacks information.

I really only put that there because I can remember hanging out with her while I (and only I) was on the stuff, and looking back and seeing how far away from that scene and frame of mind I am now is sort of breathtaking. Wouldn't trade where I am for all that "excitement" in the world.

 
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Apparently some think Trump is so bad, so horrible...

People like John Bolton,  Bill Kristol and the admins former Military Generals all turned against him.

Really a stupendous fiasco.

:tfp:

 
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I hate this pure money grab. Him not testifying is boarder line criminal.  I don’t doubt most of what he says as there plenty of smoke for his fire claims but the fact he was completely unwilling to do anything other then make money off it undercuts any ideas of doing the right thing.  

 
dkp993 said:
I hate this pure money grab. Him not testifying is boarder line criminal.  I don’t doubt most of what he says as there plenty of smoke for his fire claims but the fact he was completely unwilling to do anything other then make money off it undercuts any ideas of doing the right thing.  
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Not entirely.  He was willing to testify at the Senate trial but the GOP blocked him (or minimally did not ask him)

 
The Dude said:
Not entirely.  He was willing to testify at the Senate trial but the GOP blocked him (or minimally did not ask him)
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Never saw anywhere that he was willing.  And he certainly wasn’t with the house side where he could have. 

 
BigSteelThrill said:
The former national security adviser, who has complied with a White House directive not to cooperate in the inquiry, said he would testify if the Senate subpoenaed him.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/06/us/politics/bolton-testify-impeachment-trial.html
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Thanks. Though one wonders if that was offered knowing what the answer would be.  Kinda like when I ask my wife if she needs some help cleaning up dinner just as she finishes loading the dishwasher.  The House was his shot, he passed.   Weak sauce.  

 
dkp993 said:
Thanks. Though one wonders if that was offered knowing what the answer would be.  Kinda like when I ask my wife if she needs some help cleaning up dinner just as she finishes loading the dishwasher.  The House was his shot, he passed.   Weak sauce.  
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At the time I thought they would summon and he'd just walk the company line for the Trump admin and keep himself safe.

 
The Z Machine said:
It's almost like the GOP run Senate knew what he would say under oath and decided that they didn't want to hear it...
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Almost is a serious understatement. The Senate Republicans beyond Romney didn’t want to look any worse than they did not voting to remove. This only would only had made it worse for them no doubt. Who knows how Collins and or Murkowski would have voted had we heard Bolton’s testimony , although I suspect the same spineless way.

 
I wonder if people would have celebrated John Bolton and heralded him as a patriot if he had testified against Trump.  I really think they would have.  They would forgive him for the Iraq War and he would become another antitrump icon like Bill Kristol & David Frum.  

 
ren hoek said:
I wonder if people would have celebrated John Bolton and heralded him as a patriot if he had testified against Trump.  I really think they would have.  They would forgive him for the Iraq War and he would become another antitrump icon like Bill Kristol & David Frum.  
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Can’t speak for everyone but I still would have considered him a chicken hawk and war monger  but at least I would have respected the principled stand on what he believed was right. Instead he choose the money grab.  

 
ren hoek said:
I wonder if people would have celebrated John Bolton and heralded him as a patriot if he had testified against Trump.  I really think they would have.  They would forgive him for the Iraq War and he would become another antitrump icon like Bill Kristol & David Frum.  
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I wouldn't have. He's just a malady of a slightly different stripe than Trump. It would have been great for him to step up when it mattered and put this info out there while the impeachment hearings were going on, or better yet doing the right thing in real time and either correcting all these Trump failures when they were happening or at least letting people know they were happening then. Instead he's divulging info for profit and ego. Maybe there's a silver lining if this info helps get Trump out of office, but it seems like that'd be a side benefit to Bolton. He gets minimal credit on this from me.

 
ren hoek said:
I wonder if people would have celebrated John Bolton and heralded him as a patriot if he had testified against Trump.  I really think they would have.  They would forgive him for the Iraq War and he would become another antitrump icon like Bill Kristol & David Frum.  
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I am no Bolton fan and was very worried when he was brought into the cabinet as he is a war monger and wanted him no where near North Korea or Syria. It would have helped his image among people for sure but I don't think he cares. I'm not sure Kristol and Frum are icons or forgiven but are at least a bit principled in their Republican beliefs to call out what they see as non-Conservative in the Trump administration.

 
dkp993 said:
Can’t speak for everyone but I still would have considered him a chicken hawk and war monger  but at least I would have respected the principled stand on what he believed was right. Instead he choose the money grab.  
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Gr00vus said:
I wouldn't have. He's just a malady of a slightly different stripe than Trump. It would have been great for him to step up when it mattered and put this info out there while the impeachment hearings were going on, or better yet doing the right thing in real time and either correcting all these Trump failures when they were happening or at least letting people know they were happening then. Instead he's divulging info for profit and ego. Maybe there's a silver lining if this info helps get Trump out of office, but it seems like that'd be a side benefit to Bolton. He gets minimal credit on this from me.
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Yeah, I think you are both considerably more measured about this stuff than the average person.  I know there’d be a whole circus ready to welcome him with open arms if he somehow delivered them their orange man though.  

Sheldon Adelson is a mutual friend of Trump & Bolton’s.  And Trump for the most part has given the Bush archconservatives everything they want.  I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the difference between Bolton betraying him in impeachment proceedings and betraying him with a NYT bestseller.  

 
ren hoek said:
Yeah, I think you are both considerably more measured about this stuff than the average person.  I know there’d be a whole circus ready to welcome him with open arms if he somehow delivered them their orange man though.  

Sheldon Adelson is a mutual friend of Trump & Bolton’s.  And Trump for the most part has given the Bush archconservatives everything they want.  I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the difference between Bolton betraying him in impeachment proceedings and betraying him with a NYT bestseller.  
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I mostly agree with you on how many on the liberal side would change their view of Bolton if he did indeed bring Trump down.

As to the bolded, I think you're mostly right, though I'd say they probably wouldn't have cozied up to Putin/Russia, Xi and Kim Jong-un the way Trump has.

 
ren hoek said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the difference between Bolton betraying him in impeachment proceedings and betraying him with a NYT bestseller.  
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Why do you see either as a betrayal?  You of all people here Ren I’m surprised to see frame it this way.  

 
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Gr00vus said:
I mostly agree with you on how many on the liberal side would change their view of Bolton if he did indeed bring Trump down.
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Yep, agreed.  Which ever way the wind is blowing seems to be how either partisan side rolls.  

 
State Dept. mutes reporter asking about Bolton’s book

The silencing of the journalist’s phone line happened during a briefing highlighting the importance of a free press.

The State Department’s top spokeswoman on Monday muted the line of a reporter asking about John Bolton’s book during a briefing extolling press freedom.

The Department convened a telephone briefing ahead of its designation of four additional Chinese news outlets as foreign missions. But when David Brunnstrom, a journalist from Reuters, asked whether U.S. allies had reached out to the assistant secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs in the wake of Bolton’s book, his line was muted.

“That’s not what this call is about,” the department’s spokeswoman, Morgan Ortagus, said in response to the question.

After Brunnstrom continued his question, Ortagus said, “AT&T, we can mute that line.”

In his forthcoming memoir, President Donald Trump’s former national security adviser claimed that Trump tried to enlist China’s help in his reelection campaign. The White House has sought to discredit Bolton and portray his book as filled with lies.

A CBS News reporter, Christina Ruffini, wrote on Twitter that the silencing of the journalist came during the State Department’s attempt to highlight the importance of a free press. Monday’s designation of additional Chinese outlets as foreign missions essentially labels the organizations as state-controlled propaganda.
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Now Bolton covering Trump’s love affair with Kim Jong.

How Trump got totally played so he could snap some photos in the DMZ. Trump giving up a whole lot to get nothing. 

 
The Trump Helsinki video where Trump got dog walked by Putin to the podium.

A true low point in this trainwreck of a presidency.

 
The General said:
Watching this Bolton ABC interview.

”Is Finland part of Russia” -DJT :lol:
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Crazy sad thing is that Russian nationalists believe it is because it used to be - Finland was the sole province to break off from Tsarist Russia after the 1917 revolution. Stalin invaded it to take it back.... and failed, but Russia still sits on occupied Finnish land.

Anyway the only people who believe Finland is part of Russia are hardcore Russian nationalists... and Donald Trump.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Crazy sad thing is that Russian nationalists believe it is because it used to be - Finland was the sole province to break off from Tsarist Russia after the 1917 revolution. Stalin invaded it to take it back.... and failed, but Russia still sits on occupied Finnish land.

Anyway the only people who believe Finland is part of Russia are hardcore Russian nationalists... and Donald Trump.
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He just keeps coming up with these oddly specific beliefs

 
Gr00vus said:
I wouldn't have. He's just a malady of a slightly different stripe than Trump. It would have been great for him to step up when it mattered and put this info out there while the impeachment hearings were going on, or better yet doing the right thing in real time and either correcting all these Trump failures when they were happening or at least letting people know they were happening then. Instead he's divulging info for profit and ego. Maybe there's a silver lining if this info helps get Trump out of office, but it seems like that'd be a side benefit to Bolton. He gets minimal credit on this from me.
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A greedy opportunistic dude and a war monger no doubt and should have come forward and testified at the House inquiry. That being said I do believe him but then again I would take anybody’s word over Trumps. It fits the narrative of what many others have said about Trump. 

 
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The General said:
Bolton says Trump told him directly that aid to Ukraine was tied to Biden investigation.

Trump says he didn’t.

Who is lying? Super hard choice there.
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So the guy in charge of messaging on WMDs is all of a suddenly the white knight of truth?

That's quite the paradigm change.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Crazy sad thing is that Russian nationalists believe it is because it used to be - Finland was the sole province to break off from Tsarist Russia after the 1917 revolution. Stalin invaded it to take it back.... and failed, but Russia still sits on occupied Finnish land.

Anyway the only people who believe Finland is part of Russia are hardcore Russian nationalists... and Donald Trump.
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About .01% of the US population knows this.  Your really think DJT is one of those?

Yeah, me neither. 

 
Sand said:
Here. Good flick if you get a chance to watch. 
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While I love that movie and that is certainly my feeling in the election thats not really an option in with the question posed.  He either did or didn’t tie the aid to the investigation.  

 
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Sand said:
So the guy in charge of messaging on WMDs is all of a suddenly the white knight of truth?

That's quite the paradigm change.
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Answer the question as to who you believe.  Trump?  Seems as if not many believe that guy about anything. At all. Don't think Bolton had that problem, just that he liked to be overtly strong and too forceful towards other nations.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Crazy sad thing is that Russian nationalists believe it is because it used to be - Finland was the sole province to break off from Tsarist Russia after the 1917 revolution. Stalin invaded it to take it back.... and failed, but Russia still sits on occupied Finnish land.

Anyway the only people who believe Finland is part of Russia are hardcore Russian nationalists... and Donald Trump.
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There are also a few Finns who believe that northern Russia is part of Finland. 

 
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