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Bojang0301

Dynasty: Dallas Goedert, TE Philadelphia Eagles

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1 hour ago, mquinnjr said:

Am I crazy to think the Eagles are trying to v2.0 Brady to Gronk/Hernandez with Wentz to Ertz//Goedert? First thing I thought of logic wise.

hopefully with fewer murders

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Eagles lost Celek & Burton this offseason so this plus adding Rodgers allows them to run their scheme. I’d have to think Ertz loses targets this year though.

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10 hours ago, DJackson10 said:

So now I'm conflicted. Do I draft this guy and then trade Gronk at the end of the year if he's killing it or stay away from Goedert? 

If you have Gronk in a dynasty, you should already be trading him.

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1 minute ago, petekrum said:

If you have Gronk in a dynasty, you should already be trading him.

That’s a blanket statement. Certainly depends on the value you get back. The guy remains a competitive advantage, so a competitive team should still be selective of who they ship him to, and for what. Obviously if you aren’t competitive, yes, he’s a terrific guy to sell. 

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2 minutes ago, petekrum said:

If you have Gronk in a dynasty, you should already be trading him.

Or trying to get him at a discounted rate from a panicked owner...he may not be playing much longer but he is still the undisputed #1 TE right now...he could put a team over the top in 2018 without having to give up anywhere close to equal value...

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49 minutes ago, JPeso said:

That’s a blanket statement. Certainly depends on the value you get back. The guy remains a competitive advantage, so a competitive team should still be selective of who they ship him to, and for what. Obviously if you aren’t competitive, yes, he’s a terrific guy to sell. 

Yes, obviously don’t give him away, but the better dynasty owners don’t let assets retire on their team. 

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Wentz got another weapon! Wentz win, Ertz lose.

Tex

Edited by BigTex
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Fantasy-wise, if he had gone to Dallas he'd be much higher ranked.  I think this is an excellent pickup for the Eagles, but don't expect fantasy relevance for a few years.

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He lined up as a FB and WR in college. 

The Titans ran a ton of two and three TE sets. One read they always spoke of was the TE shifting somewhere and how this helped Mariota to see who followed him. Shifting Walker to the slot helped Henry run better imo, wasn't just for passing.

Jonnu Smith is an awesome downfield blocker. Goedert isn't as good in-line but he is a good downfield blocker too. The Titans liked to get Smith involved on screens to the RB. For a sparingly used TE, he made a nice impact with his blocks. 

The Titans messed it all up, no doubt, but when ya play multiple TE sets often, teams load up the LOS and things become real constricted in the center of the field. The shifts would have been more effective if run by a better OC. The Pats do it very well.

I bet Goedert gets a lot of time early then reverts to a backup spot. He offers a nice sampling and nice competition to get the regular guys moving around. By the time camp comes, we'll have to see how things shake out but it'll be good for their TEs to get some competition moving around at first.

A lot of assumptions here but the 2 and 3 TE offense is so vanilla there isn't a whole lot else that a team can do without Hernandez and Gronk. 

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14 hours ago, petekrum said:

If you have Gronk in a dynasty, you should already be trading him.

It's more of a keeper league keep 4 players. It's just a basic keeper league where picks can be traded and normal PPR scoring. Waivers go by record and reset weekly. 

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13 hours ago, petekrum said:

Yes, obviously don’t give him away, but the better dynasty owners don’t let assets retire on their team. 

Well I wasn't really competitive last year mostly do to player injuries. I got Wentz/Rodgers and Jimmy G at QB Gronk at TE Melvin Gordon at RB with McGuire, Perine. WR Jordy, Robbie Anderson, Kupp and a few others I can't remember. I'm not great but if I could trade him and maybe someone is desperate I think it's fair to get a keeper pick say 3rd or 4th round depending on other assets given back is right to ask for no? 

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On 4/28/2018 at 8:38 AM, petekrum said:

Yes, obviously don’t give him away, but the better dynasty owners don’t let assets retire on their team. 

This is a really bad take

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On 4/29/2018 at 10:36 PM, Hankmoody said:

This is a really bad take

No, it’s not. If you can get younger value for an older near retirement asset in a dynasty, you do it. 

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1 hour ago, Rodrigo Duterte said:

This belongs in that Dallas thread where they keep trying to reassure themselves that they didn't get sniped by the Eagles.

 You seem to have a colossal hard on for not only this topic but the Dallas Cowboys in general. Everything in football doesn’t have to do with the Dallas Cowboys dude. You’re weird.

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1 hour ago, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

 You seem to have a colossal hard on for not only this topic but the Dallas Cowboys in general. Everything in football doesn’t have to do with the Dallas Cowboys dude. You’re weird.

:goodposting:

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On 5/4/2018 at 6:02 PM, petekrum said:

No, it’s not. If you can get younger value for an older near retirement asset in a dynasty, you do it. 

Like Larry Fitzgerald for example?

I don't think that worked out very well as an axiom of what dynasty owners should do.

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18 hours ago, Rodrigo Duterte said:

Last two posts prove my point, Eagles hosed the Cowboys. Super defensive and uptight fans.  I root for neither, btw.  Poor Cowboys.

It gets weirder! :jawdrop:

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2 hours ago, Rodrigo Duterte said:

Last two posts prove my point, Eagles hosed the Cowboys.  Super defensive and uptight fans.  I root for neither, btw.  Poor Cowboys.

i root for the Eagles and :goodposting:

 

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Missed him in every draft...just couldn't get to the right spot

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I've thought a little more about this & it simply doesn't make much sense for the Eagles. 

While Goedert is a very good prospect, I believe it could potentially be a fairly big blunder for them depending on who they would've taken in his place.

It certainly isn't a death sentence to not make an optimal pick in the 2nd, but with the NFC getting increasingly tougher, everything matters.

Edited by Football Jones

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18 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

I've thought a little more about this & it simply doesn't make much sense for the Eagles. 

While Goedert is a very good prospect, I believe it could potentially be a fairly big blunder for them depending on who they would've taken in his place.

It certainly isn't a death sentence to not make an optimal pick in the 2nd, but with the NFC getting increasingly tougher, everything matters.

Please share who you think they would’ve taken in his place. 

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23 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

I've thought a little more about this & it simply doesn't make much sense for the Eagles. 

While Goedert is a very good prospect, I believe it could potentially be a fairly big blunder for them depending on who they would've taken in his place.

It certainly isn't a death sentence to not make an optimal pick in the 2nd, but with the NFC getting increasingly tougher, everything matters.

2 elite TEs in a matchup driven NFL..it doesn’t surprise me that you and your GM Jerry don’t make much sense of it. GL with Rico :lmao:

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1 hour ago, JetMaxx said:

2 elite TEs in a matchup driven NFL..it doesn’t surprise me that you and your GM Jerry don’t make much sense of it. GL with Rico :lmao:

I haven't spent any time figuring out who the Eagles should've taken, but off the top of my head, maybe Connor Williams or Derrius Guice. This was a strong class & with several other NFC teams on their heels, a prospect who likely would've made a bigger impact would make much more sense, IMO. Also, the two TE thing is vastly overblown. In general, I'd rather have the opposing team feature their TEs as opposed to their WRs. TEs typically aren't as dynamic.

Gronk & Hernandez were a difficult pair to defend, but Ertz/Goedert is a different level of talent in the wrong direction compared to Gronk/Hernandez.

Again, it's not the prospect they took, but the positional dynamics involved. A backup TE in the 2nd is something you might do if the starter is older or likely to leave. If it's neither of those, then it's something you only do if you have virtually everything else covered (& that's not the case with Philly).

I thought the pick was odd & maybe the Eagles really did believe Dallas was taking Goedert, which would be even more of a mistake. Same reason why in FF you don't worry about other teams, you just try to make yours as strong as possible.

 

 

Edited by Football Jones

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As I said in about 20 other threads, the Eagles run a ton of 2 TE sets and Ertz misses games frequently. This is a much more important position for them than for most teams, even if it doesn’t translate to huge fantasy numbers. “They only did this to screw with Dallas” is a narrative in your own head and nowhere else.

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1 hour ago, JetMaxx said:

Please share who you think they would’ve taken in his place. 

he "doesn't want to get into it"

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20 minutes ago, Pip's Invitation said:

As I said in about 20 other threads, the Eagles run a ton of 2 TE sets and Ertz misses games frequently. This is a much more important position for them than for most teams, even if it doesn’t translate to huge fantasy numbers. “They only did this to screw with Dallas” is a narrative in your own head and nowhere else.

Ya I don't think anyone thinks it was just to screw Dallas.  I think he was obviously on their board pretty high.  I've seen everything from people calling him the steal of the draft, to a huge reach.  Time will tell, but I like what kind of matchup problems he could present.  If Ertz goes down, its a major hole to fill and time we can't afford to not have a good tight end in this offense.  I like how Howie is continuing to bolster the offense.  Sure we could have taken a defensive player there, but our D is in good shape and its an offensive league. 

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1 hour ago, Pip's Invitation said:

As I said in about 20 other threads, the Eagles run a ton of 2 TE sets and Ertz misses games frequently. This is a much more important position for them than for most teams, even if it doesn’t translate to huge fantasy numbers. “They only did this to screw with Dallas” is a narrative in your own head and nowhere else.

I never thought of it that way, but it WAS a narrative some Philly fans, themselves, were preaching.

I kinda doubt it was done to block Dallas. I can't see a professional team worrying more about their rival than their own team. More likely, it was simply a BPA pick, but my reasoning still stands as far as it not being optimal. 

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6 hours ago, Deamon said:

he "doesn't want to get into it"

I've explained why I believe it wasn't optimal & I also mentioned two players who likely would've made more of an impact (Williams & Guice). 

Another reason I thought it was an odd pick is because TEs typically take awhile to develop & with your salary cap situation, the window is smaller than a team like Dallas (who's younger & will have a lot of cap money to invest).

It's simply an observation. Like I said before, if you guys are happy with the pick, cool.

Edited by Football Jones

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3 hours ago, JetMaxx said:

2 elite TEs in a matchup driven NFL..it doesn’t surprise me that you and your GM Jerry don’t make much sense of it. GL with Rico :lmao:

BTW, I hear a fair amount of negative comments regarding Rico, but that's kind of a dangerous proposition for Philly fans given his immense upside. ;)

I'm not saying Rico is a sure thing because that's far from the case, but if he even realizes the majority of his potential, opposing Ds are going to have their hands full.

Rico is certainly one of the more polarizing players in the NFL right now, both in FF & the real world. 

 

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41 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

Rico is certainly one of the more polarizing players in the NFL right now, both in FF & the real world. 

 

Polarizing? NOt really...the only people pimping him are some of the more delusional Cowboy fans

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18 minutes ago, renesauz said:

Polarizing? NOt really...the only people pimping him are some of the more delusional Cowboy fans

It’s not really about the pimping. 

With Witten retiring as well as Rico’s unconeventional football pedigree, not to mention the potential he’s showed, it makes for a very interesting story.

Edited by Football Jones

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2 hours ago, renesauz said:

Polarizing? NOt really...the only people pimping him are some of the more delusional Cowboy fans

Uncle Rico would be more polarizing. 

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8 hours ago, Football Jones said:

I haven't spent any time figuring out who the Eagles should've taken, but off the top of my head, maybe Connor Williams or Derrius Guice. This was a strong class & with several other NFC teams on their heels, a prospect who likely would've made a bigger impact would make much more sense, IMO. Also, the two TE thing is vastly overblown. In general, I'd rather have the opposing team feature their TEs as opposed to their WRs. TEs typically aren't as dynamic.

Gronk & Hernandez were a difficult pair to defend, but Ertz/Goedert is a different level of talent in the wrong direction compared to Gronk/Hernandez.

Again, it's not the prospect they took, but the positional dynamics involved. A backup TE in the 2nd is something you might do if the starter is older or likely to leave. If it's neither of those, then it's something you only do if you have virtually everything else covered (& that's not the case with Philly).

I thought the pick was odd & maybe the Eagles really did believe Dallas was taking Goedert, which would be even more of a mistake. Same reason why in FF you don't worry about other teams, you just try to make yours as strong as possible.

 

 

This type of analysis is why I don't pay attention to non-Eagles fans.  Connor Williams and Derrius Guice? 

It's easy to see, that TE was a HUGE need for Philly, probably their biggest.  Burton played on 26.53% of the offensive snaps (300 snaps) and 67.54% (2nd on team) special teams snaps (308 snaps) and Celek played on 41.11% of the offensive snaps (465 snaps) and 33.33% on special teams (152 snaps).  I can't imagine why they would have draft Goedert.  Really no need for him.  They could have given the 1200+ snaps on offense and special teams they lost at the position to Ertz.  They could have drafted a Guard who would have seen maybe 200 or 300 snaps this year, maybe if he could be out Seumalo for the backup spot.  Or a RB who would have been splitting time with Ajayi, Clement and Sproles.  I mean Blount got 354 snaps last year.  Or they could have drafted a TE to replace Celek's 617 snaps or Burton's 608 snaps.  I can't imagine why they would have gone TE.  Really not a need for them.  :rolleyes:       

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1 hour ago, Snotbubbles said:

This type of analysis is why I don't pay attention to non-Eagles fans.  Connor Williams and Derrius Guice? 

It's easy to see, that TE was a HUGE need for Philly, probably their biggest.  Burton played on 26.53% of the offensive snaps (300 snaps) and 67.54% (2nd on team) special teams snaps (308 snaps) and Celek played on 41.11% of the offensive snaps (465 snaps) and 33.33% on special teams (152 snaps).  I can't imagine why they would have draft Goedert.  Really no need for him.  They could have given the 1200+ snaps on offense and special teams they lost at the position to Ertz.  They could have drafted a Guard who would have seen maybe 200 or 300 snaps this year, maybe if he could be out Seumalo for the backup spot.  Or a RB who would have been splitting time with Ajayi, Clement and Sproles.  I mean Blount got 354 snaps last year.  Or they could have drafted a TE to replace Celek's 617 snaps or Burton's 608 snaps.  I can't imagine why they would have gone TE.  Really not a need for them.  :rolleyes:       

I made it clear I didn't do any research on who I would've taken as an optimal pick. Williams & Guice were of the top off my head (as I mentioned), but I can tell you either one would've likely had a bigger impact than Goedert, not only in the short term, but in the long run, as well.

I could buy your reasoning if a second TE was a big part of your offensive success, but it wasn't. Celek & Burton had a rather negligible real-world effect on your offense. To go out & grab what amounts to a backup TE in the 2nd (& even used another asset to trade up) because you lost a couple of mediocre players is not optimal at best & a bad pick at worst, IMO. Every pick needs to count in today's NFL with the salary cap, especially day-1 & day-2 picks. There are other legit ways to acquire backup TEs without allocating important resources.

Personally, even though I like Goedert as a prospect, I liked seeing you guys take him there. We'll see how it shakes out.

 

Edited by Football Jones

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7 hours ago, Football Jones said:

I never thought of it that way, but it WAS a narrative some Philly fans, themselves, were preaching.

I kinda doubt it was done to block Dallas. I can't see a professional team worrying more about their rival than their own team. More likely, it was simply a BPA pick, but my reasoning still stands as far as it not being optimal. 

Of course the pick wasn’t to spite Dallas. However, I’m certain they made the trade to (49) in order to secure Goedert because it moved them ahead of the Cowboys(50) AND Patriots(51) which seems to be often forgotten in the narrative. Say what you want but Goedert was in play for the Cowboys in light of the Witten situation and certainly for the Pats because of Gronks age, retirement talk and how much they love to take advantage of 2 TEs much like the Eagles. IMO it’s no coincidence that the Pats traded out of (51) after the Eagles took Goedert. As was stated so well in the posts above, the need at TE was strong. It was another incredibly shrewd move by the NFL Executive of the Year.

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I has absolutely NO problems moving up to take Hurst in our dynasty draft.

Didnt even consider this cat, one second. He'll be a much more impactful real life player than a fantasy/stats one, imo.

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14 minutes ago, JetMaxx said:

Of course the pick wasn’t to spite Dallas. However, I’m certain they made the trade to (49) in order to secure Goedert because it moved them ahead of the Cowboys(50) AND Patriots(51) which seems to be often forgotten in the narrative. Say what you want but Goedert was in play for the Cowboys in light of the Witten situation and certainly for the Pats because of Gronks age, retirement talk and how much they love to take advantage of 2 TEs much like the Eagles. IMO it’s no coincidence that the Pats traded out of (51) after the Eagles took Goedert. As was stated so well in the posts above, the need at TE was strong. It was another incredibly shrewd move by the NFL Executive of the Year.

No way Goedert was in play for Dallas.  They have Rico Gathers, a mythological stud TE who has more trips to the IR than NFL receptions.  If I'm Jerry Jones, I agree.  No need for Goedert.   

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JetMaxx,

Taking Goedert there was far from shrewd, IMO. 

Ertz won't be a FA until 2022. If the idea is to have two top TEs, Goedert will also hit FA in 2022. You going to pay both TEs top money if Goedert pans out?

I don't get either the short-term strategy or the long term dynamics of taking a TE in the 2nd in Philly's situation. Not to mention the implications of taking a long term backup that high in today's NFL with the salary cap. You might do that for a QB, but not a TE.

Edited by Football Jones

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44 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

JetMaxx,

Taking Goedert there was far from shrewd, IMO. 

Ertz won't be a FA until 2022. If the idea is to have two top TEs, Goedert will also hit FA in 2022. You going to pay both TEs top money if Goedert pans out?

I don't get either the short-term strategy or the long term dynamics of taking a TE in the 2nd in Philly's situation. Not to mention the implications of taking a long term backup that high in today's NFL with the salary cap. You might do that for a QB, but not a TE.

The Eagles just lost 2 TEs who each saw significant playing time leaving them with only Ertz and Richard Rodgers on the roster and you don't see how TE was a need?  It was one of, if not the biggest, need of the draft.  Sorry if you don't agree, its a fact.  And trading a 5th to get ahead of 2 other TE needy teams was a good move to get the guy they wanted.

I think Goedert will see a good deal of action his rookie year.  I don't think he'll have much fantasy relevance, but a significant contributor to their offense. 

Edited by Amused to Death

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10 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

The Eagles just lost 2 TEs who each saw significant playing time leaving them with only Ertz and Richard Rodgers on the roster and you don't see how TE was a need?  It was one of, if not the biggest, need of the draft.  Sorry if you don't agree, its a fact.  And trading a 5th to get ahead of 2 other TE needy teams was a good move to get the guy they wanted.

I think Goedert will see a good deal of action his rookie year.  I don't think he'll have much fantasy relevance, but a significant contributor to their offense. 

I do agree it was a need, but for the reasons I've mentioned, taking Goedert in the 2nd doesn't make much sense to me. There are other ways to acquire backup TEs (such as later in the draft). You guys could've used that pick much more wisely, IMO.

I'll be interested to see how much Goedert contributes. Not only because of the real-world implications, but for FF purposes, as well.

Edited by Football Jones

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1 hour ago, Football Jones said:

I do agree it was a need, but for the reasons I've mentioned, taking Goedert in the 2nd doesn't make much sense to me. There are other ways to acquire backup TEs (such as later in the draft). You guys could've used that pick much more wisely, IMO.

I'll be interested to see how much Goedert contributes. Not only because of the real-world implications, but for FF purposes, as well.

I think you are way overthinking things. One of the keys to the Eagles offense is that Wentz spreads the ball around. Look at the TD receptions last year:

Jeffery           9 TD

Ertz                8 TD

Agholor          8 TD

Other TE's      6 TD

RB's               4 TD

Other WR's    3 TD

This is why the Eagles are so tough in the Red Zone. The other team cannot key on any one receiver. You say that Burton did not do much last year, but of his 23 catches, 5 were for TD's. Goedert has the ability to keep the second TE as a valid TD option in the red zone.

Edited by dhockster

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What does Football Jones think of the Eagles taking Goedert? I'm very curious to hear his view on it.

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Loved the pick.  He was not only the best te on the board when the eagles picked but he was the best receiver.  Another weapon for Wentz.

Oh he can also block and seems to be a good guy as well.  

Edited by need2know

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