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2020 Census Thread

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Increasingly more in the news lately. Deserves its own thread

The NAACP is spearheading a lawsuit against the Census Bureau and Trump, warning that the federal government is unprepared for the 2020 Census and will substantially undercount African Americans and other people of color in communities.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/naacp-files-lawsuit-over-2020-census

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2 hours ago, squistion said:

Increasingly more in the news lately. Deserves its own thread

The NAACP is spearheading a lawsuit against the Census Bureau and Trump, warning that the federal government is unprepared for the 2020 Census and will substantially undercount African Americans and other people of color in communities.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/naacp-files-lawsuit-over-2020-census

Anyone can sue for anything they want. The article offered no proof or really anything of substance other than some guy’s opinion. 

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The Census is outdated and inaccurate.  Only about half the country votes, millions of people don’t file an income tax, why would everyone suddenly fill out a questionnaire? 

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They want to know how many bathrooms you have so they can put the proper tariff on Canadian pulp - William F. Buckley

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22 hours ago, squistion said:

A coalition of 17 states, 6 major cities and a bipartisan group of mayors is suing the Trump admin over its plan to add a citizenship question to the 2020 U.S. census.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/17-states-sue-trump-administration-block-citizenship-question-2020-census-n862406

Slick move by Trump Administration.  

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On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 0:58 PM, squistion said:

A coalition of 17 states, 6 major cities and a bipartisan group of mayors is suing the Trump admin over its plan to add a citizenship question to the 2020 U.S. census.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/17-states-sue-trump-administration-block-citizenship-question-2020-census-n862406

Are they arguing that registration may led to confiscation?

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10 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Are they arguing that registration may led to confiscation?

No, to deportation.

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22 hours ago, knowledge dropper said:

Slick move by Trump Administration.  

Donald added Bad Hombre as a choice

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1 hour ago, squistion said:

The Hill‏Verified account @thehill

JUST IN: Sarah Sanders wrongly claims citizenship question was asked in every census until 2010

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/380500-white-house-defends-citizenship-question-on-census

You can't expect her to answer every question correctly.

I'm starting to think that we have been asking a little too much of our fact-challenged right wing brethren. Look at Donald -- he's practically a genius and he hardly ever says anything accurate by average standards.

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One reason Latinos are afraid of adding a citizenship question to the 2020 Census: Census data was used to target Japanese Americans for internment during World War II.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/04/03/secret-use-of-census-info-helped-send-japanese-americans-to-internment-camps-in-wwii/?utm_term=.66edffe42f70&wpisrc=nl_daily202&wpmm=1

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Two dozen Latino and Asian-American organizations are alleging in a lawsuit that the Trump admin's plan to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census violates the Constitution because it's racially discriminatory.

https://www.apnews.com/d03ef9cb8c354a1188bf1fe7601cd88d?utm_medium=AP_Politics&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow

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On 4/8/2018 at 9:02 AM, squistion said:

One reason Latinos are afraid of adding a citizenship question to the 2020 Census: Census data was used to target Japanese Americans for internment during World War II.

Yeah...those crazy Democrats....  <_<

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Ari Berman‏ @AriBerman 22h22 hours ago

Boom:

@aclu sues Trump admin over citizenship question on 2020 census, calling it “a naked act of intentional discrimination.” 5th major lawsuit filed against citizenship q

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/06/aclu-sues-trump-over-census-a-naked-act-of-intentional-discrimination/

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A new document appears to contradict Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross's congressional testimony about discussions he had about adding a citizenship question to the 2020 Census, WaPo reports.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/new-document-contradicts-rosss-congressional-testimony-on-census-citizenship-question/2018/10/11/9bedc8d6-cd97-11e8-920f-dd52e1ae4570_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d0ed320e6297

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Got a story to tell about this subject regarding big government and it’s incredible amount of waste: 

Recently I was hired to be an analyst for a large office building/shopping center in escrow on behalf of the buyer. As I was reviewing the leases, I came upon a new one, not yet executed, between the seller and the GSA, the government agency which handles the census. The GSA wanted to rent 5,000 sf of office space for 11 months only in order to conduct census work. They liked the location, but they wanted newly refurbished offices so they required the landlord to perform $300,000 worth of tenant improvements. In order to make this worthwhile to the landlord, the GSA agreed to pay $50,000 a month in rent for the 11 months!!!!

Now you need to understand that in Southern California there are literally tons of expensive office space available and it’s very cheap- between $1-3 per sf per month. If you want absolute top end, high rise space, you might pay up to $4, or $20,000 a month for 5000 ft- but that’s only in Beverly Hills or West LA. Yet here is the government willing to throw down $550,000 of taxpayer money for 11 months. It’s unbelievable. 

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6 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Got a story to tell about this subject regarding big government and it’s incredible amount of waste: 

Recently I was hired to be an analyst for a large office building/shopping center in escrow on behalf of the buyer. As I was reviewing the leases, I came upon a new one, not yet executed, between the seller and the GSA, the government agency which handles the census. The GSA wanted to rent 5,000 sf of office space for 11 months only in order to conduct census work. They liked the location, but they wanted newly refurbished offices so they required the landlord to perform $300,000 worth of tenant improvements. In order to make this worthwhile to the landlord, the GSA agreed to pay $50,000 a month in rent for the 11 months!!!!

Now you need to understand that in Southern California there are literally tons of expensive office space available and it’s very cheap- between $1-3 per sf per month. If you want absolute top end, high rise space, you might pay up to $4, or $20,000 a month for 5000 ft- but that’s only in Beverly Hills or West LA. Yet here is the government willing to throw down $550,000 of taxpayer money for 11 months. It’s unbelievable. 

Hey that taxpayer money doesn't just redistribute itself. 

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On 3/31/2018 at 8:05 PM, squistion said:

Increasingly more in the news lately. Deserves its own thread

The NAACP is spearheading a lawsuit against the Census Bureau and Trump, warning that the federal government is unprepared for the 2020 Census and will substantially undercount African Americans and other people of color in communities.

This is a bad thing?

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2 minutes ago, jiffy said:

I mean, is the census even really needed any more?

Well, yes. But post wasn't talking about getting rid of the census. It was talking about undercounting African-Americans and other minority communities.  Care to expand on why you don't think that's a bad thing?

Edited by TobiasFunke
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Just now, TobiasFunke said:

Well, yes. But post you implied was a good thing wasn't talking about getting rid of the census. It was talking about undercounting African-Americans and other minority communities.  Care to expand on why you don't think that's a bad thing?

Well see, you obviously immediately read it the bad way.  Shame on you.

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2 minutes ago, jiffy said:

Well see, you obviously immediately read it the bad way.  Shame on you.

There was no other way to read it.

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2 minutes ago, jiffy said:

Well see, you obviously immediately read it the bad way.  Shame on you.

please explain it in the good way.   

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1 minute ago, jiffy said:

Well see, you obviously immediately read it the bad way.  Shame on you.

No I didn't.  I'm asking you to explain your post. Are you not capable of explaining your own words?

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18 minutes ago, timschochet said:

GSA, the government agency which handles the census.

Not sure what you mean by this, but I'd say the Census Bureau "handles the census". GSA does several things, one of them being acquiring facilities for other government agencies.

To your point, though, that does seem excessive. However, there may be some legit reasons they want that location and maybe much of the improvements are security (not just physical but also data) related?

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1 minute ago, TobiasFunke said:

No I didn't.  I'm asking you to explain your post. Are you not capable of explaining your own words?

I said above that is the census even really needed any more?  There is no need to hire people to have them go out.  Do it online, have a valid SSN, etc.

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Just now, jiffy said:

I said above that is the census even really needed any more?  There is no need to hire people to have them go out.  Do it online, have a valid SSN, etc.

If you do it online, it would still be a census.

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1 minute ago, jiffy said:

I said above that is the census even really needed any more?  There is no need to hire people to have them go out.  Do it online, have a valid SSN, etc.

There will be an online questionnaire in 2020. Not everyone completes it. Hiring people to go out is part of what's called non-response follow up. There are probably also people who go out ahead of data collection to canvass certain areas to see if addresses are still there and whether a survey response should be expected for those locations.

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Just now, dgreen said:

There will be an online questionnaire in 2020. Not everyone completes it. Hiring people to go out is part of what's called non-response follow up. There are probably also people who go out ahead of data collection to canvass certain areas to see if addresses are still there and whether a survey response should be expected for those locations.

They don't fill it out, they don't get counted.  Simple as that.

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3 minutes ago, dgreen said:

Not sure what you mean by this, but I'd say the Census Bureau "handles the census". GSA does several things, one of them being acquiring facilities for other government agencies.

To your point, though, that does seem excessive. However, there may be some legit reasons they want that location and maybe much of the improvements are security (not just physical but also data) related?

Possible, I don’t know. Even so, 11 months? That’s ridiculous. 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Possible, I don’t know. Even so, 11 months? That’s ridiculous. 

The price might be ridiculous but I don't see how 11 months is ridiculous. Ramp up, peak work, ramp down.

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1 minute ago, dgreen said:

The price might be ridiculous but I don't see how 11 months is ridiculous. Ramp up, peak work, ramp down.

Spending half a million dollars for 5000 feet for 11 months is ridiculous. 

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8 minutes ago, jiffy said:

They don't fill it out, they don't get counted.  Simple as that.

So you'd be ok with apportioning representatives and tax dollars based on a number generated from those who filled it out and not worry about trying to be more accurate by tracking down those who don't fill it out by a certain date?

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12 minutes ago, jiffy said:

I said above that is the census even really needed any more?  There is no need to hire people to have them go out.  Do it online, have a valid SSN, etc.

But the post to which you sarcastically asked "is that a bad thing?" wasn't about whether or not to do the census at all. It was specifically about the federal government's unpreparedness resulting in "substantially undercounting African Americans and other people of color in communities."

So your explanation makes no sense.  If you wanted to question the need for the census, why post about it vaguely in response to a post that has nothing to do with whether it not we will/should do the census?

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3 minutes ago, dgreen said:

So you'd be ok with apportioning representatives and tax dollars based on a number generated from those who filled it out and not worry about trying to be more accurate by tracking down those who don't fill it out by a certain date?

Yup.

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Just now, dgreen said:

 

And you're generally ok with nobody knowing how many people there are in a given geography?

Yup.  If you don't care enough to fill out the forms, then neither should the government.

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1 minute ago, dgreen said:

 

And you're generally ok with nobody knowing how many people there are in a given geography?

why do you talk to it?

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1 minute ago, jiffy said:

Yup.  If you don't care enough to fill out the forms, then neither should the government.

When a hurricane hits and agencies (including local and state governments, charitable organizations, among others) want to plan the level of help needed, do they just go with the number generated by those who filled it out leading them to be underprepared or do they only distribute their help to those who filled it out?

Should the IRS approach tax collection the same way?

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4 minutes ago, Dedfin said:

why do you talk to it?

IDK. I read much of the PSF and wonder why some people go back and forth for pages on conversations similar to this. I guess I'm just in that kind of mood today.

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