Balancing job offers -- advice? (1 Viewer)

Yeah, I know: "LOOK AT ME! TWO OFFERS!"

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With that out of the way, let me lay out the situation.

Job #1, the job I would prefer to have. Permanent position, pay stays about the same as at previous job. Stay within the field I've been in for the past dozen years. Will not have to relocate -- stay in the same house, kids stay in their schools, stay near our families

Job #2, the second-choice job. 12-month contract, substantial bump in pay. Would start over in a new field (though I am a data professional, so the basic tenets of data management still hold). Will not have to relocate for the next year, but might have to after 12 months is up. Would be employed by the contracting firm, not the client firm. The contracting firm places people globally -- after one year, they might tell me (a) "We have nowhere to place you right now", or (b) "We have an immediate placement overseas, how fast can you get there?"

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Job #2's pursuit is more aggressive. I am chiefly dealing with one contract-firm recruiter, who likely has a commission at stake. They've done everything over the phone (one 20-minute phone interview on 3/28 with three of the client firm's people) or e-mail. In just a few business days, they went from that one phone interview to a verbal offer (nothing in writing yet) and a proposed start date. No meeting with anyone in person. No second interview. I've gotten some employment screening information via e-mail this morning. That phone interview went very well, but my spidey sense is still going off. Why is their hiring process so superficial? I have researched the contracting firm ... from all I can tell, they are a legit company.

Job #1's pursuit has been slower and more traditional. First interview (chief admin officer and HR) on 3/22, second interview with company owner and HR on the 3/29. After second interview, was told by HR person "You did wonderfully [in the interviews]." and "The principals have crazy travel schedules. It can take a week to a week and a half to get your offer, but they might expedite things for you and the offer will come in a few days". The position I interviewed for for was never advertised -- I got a tip from a former colleague who works there. I am given to understand that no one else has interviewed for the position, not even an internal candidate.

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What I am hoping for at this point is that Job #1 comes in with a written offer ASAP and beats Job #2 to the punch. Unfortunately, without that Job #1 offer, I have had to proceed with Job #2 as though they are my first choice. I got a proposed start date with Job #2 this morning. Since I never got a written offer, I asked if Job #2 could send me one -- this should buy me a little time.

Anyway -- what I am concerned about is avoiding a situation where either of these two cases happens:

     (a) After too much time passes, I commit to Job #2 right before Job #1 makes a written offer.

     (b) The worst case scenario: Something goes wrong on both ends, and neither job comes through (though that seems close to impossible with Job #2 at this point).
 

So ... my questions for the house:

Can I let one or both potential employers know the broad strokes of the situation? It's not cool to call Job #1 and tell them about the full-court press from Job #2, is it? Asking them to hurry up seems out of bounds -- but maybe there's a better, more subtle way to approach things?

And I totally assume it's a terrible idea to tell Job #2 that I am waiting for on an answer from somewhere else before I fully commit. However, I would like to be able to gracefully bow out when/if it comes time to do so. So far, I have been very careful with my words with Job #2 -- I tell them I'm glad to be considered, and I tell them that the things they propose sound "great". I have not told Job #2 that I am on board yet. Nevertheless, they seem to be to be proceeding as if I am on board.

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To reiterate and to be clear:

Job #1 -- First choice. No verbal or written offer, just advice from the HR person that attended both interviews that I should expect an offer in the next week or so (but maybe quicker).

Job #2 -- Second choice. Verbal offer only, written offer supposed to be coming as a formality. Employment screening process starting today.

What about Larry and Stan?

Doug B said:

So ... my questions for the house:

Can I let one or both potential employers know the broad strokes of the situation? It's not cool to call Job #1 and tell them about the full-court press from Job #2, is it? Asking them to hurry up seems out of bounds -- but maybe there's a better, more subtle way to approach things?

And I totally assume it's a terrible idea to tell Job #2 that I am waiting for on an answer from somewhere else before I fully commit. However, I would like to be able to gracefully bow out when/if it comes time to do so. So far, I have been very careful with my words with Job #2 -- I tell them I'm glad to be considered, and I tell them that the things they propose sound "great". I have not told Job #2 that I am on board yet. Nevertheless, they seem to be to be proceeding as if I am on board.

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To your first paragraph, no nothing wrong with telling Job#1 that you have an offer out there.  I'd probably tell them that they are your first choice, but you are being aggressively perused by another company.  Hopefully that will get them to speed up a bit so they don't miss out on you.

are you presently employed?   how far away is job #2?  Age/range to retirement?

There are a lot of factors in play here.

If it were me, I'd probably give company 1 a call and let them know you are being aggressively recruited by another firm.  Your preference would be to work for them, but without an offer, you are feeling a bit hanging in the wind - if there is anything they could do to give a time table as to offer letter, start date that would be appreciated.

I'd let company 2 do all the leg work and once you have a firm offer in hand from them, you'll need to piss or get off the pot.

Osaurus said:

What about Larry and Stan?

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I love this movie ... but it's been a while since I saw it. Forgot the reference.

guru_007 said:

are you presently employed?

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No, recent layoff.
 

How far away is job #2?

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Both jobs would be a ~15-20 minute commute. That's a push.

Age/range to retirement?

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About 20 years until retirement.

Sleep with both the bosses wives. Go to the one who is better.

Job #2 just e-mailed me a blank I-9 and bunch of new-hire onboarding paperwork. Not a written offer anywhere to be found.

Doug B said:

Job #2 just e-mailed me a blank I-9 and bunch of new-hire onboarding paperwork. Not a written offer anywhere to be found.

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That's weird.  Also would be a reason for me to rethink employment with them.

Doug B said:

Job #2 just e-mailed me a blank I-9 and bunch of new-hire onboarding paperwork. Not a written offer anywhere to be found.

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No reason not to reach out to them and ask them when they intend on sending a written offer. 

From a % perspective, how much more scrilla is job 2 offering?

thayman said:

Doug B said:

Job #2 just e-mailed me a blank I-9 and bunch of new-hire onboarding paperwork. Not a written offer anywhere to be found.

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That's weird.  Also would be a reason for me to rethink employment with them.

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It's a shame the client firm itself is not hiring me on as a permanent employee -- they are a rock-solid firm, albeit in an up-and-down industry. I guess heavy use of contractors makes it easier for them to bulk up / lean down as the market demands.

Go with job #1. 

James Daulton said:

From a % perspective, how much more scrilla is job 2 offering?

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Roughly 40% more. I know some people will get hung up on that, and take that as the first, second, and third most important factor in the decision ... but that is just not where I am at. Contract firms pay more in exchange for a less secure future. Yes, private companies fail all the time and so said "security" may be illusory. But Job #1 is at a young firm (not a start-up) that has grown out of their "will they make it?" stage and is expanding their operations carefully and profitably.

But ask for a little more money.

eoMMan said:

But ask for a little more money.

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What sucks is with Job #1, I had to throw out the first dollar amount (or I felt like I had to, wasn't sure how to go about it). I have not negotiated salary with Job #1 -- instead, Job #1 had me fill out a form that had "Desired Salary" as one of the items. I hadn't even had the phone interview with Job #2 yet, and didn't know where #2 was going with a potential salary offer. No number to compare to except my previous salary.

Job #1 (1st choice) cannot compete on salary with Job #2. I can't go crazy and say "Well, they're offering me ($X) and I wrote ($X - 40%) on that form last week ... can you bump me up to ($X - 20%)?" Not going to be able to hardball anyone.

Ages of kids?

Job #2 doesn't feel right (and I'm just a dude on the internet reading this for the first time). No reason why there shouldn't be a written offer at this point. Plus, you have no idea what you will have to do to uproot your family down the road. Extra money is nice and all, but if they are this wishy washy right out of the gate, just wait until this contract runs out in a year and you have uncertainty all over again. Just smells weird.

Majority of contract roles are going to be filled without a written offer and a lot of roles are filled with just a phone screen so I wouldn’t worry too much there. What are you going to do about benefits?

You should call the HR person on Job 1 and explain you have another offer that moved quickly because it is a long term contract. Tell them your preference is their job and you don’t mean to be pushy but wanted to see if they intended to provide and offer whether they could expedite it. Explain you just don’t want to be in a situation where you don’t land either role.

Also, I’m in the IT consulting placement world, feel free to IM me as I’m happy to answer any additional questions you might have.

JuniorGong said:

Majority of contract roles are going to be filled without a written offer and a lot of roles are filled with just a phone screen so I wouldn’t worry too much there. What are you going to do about benefits?

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The contracting firm (Job #2) actually offers healthcare and other benefits comparable to what I had before. A little more expensive, but the rates were getting jacked up all the time at the previous job anyhow.

Job #1 is similar as far as benefits go.

ChiefD said:

Ages of kids?

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Daughter is almost 15, son is 11. My daughter is in an arts program locally that is difficult to get into and we would be loathe to leave behind.

Doug B said:

The contracting firm (Job #2) actually offers healthcare and other benefits comparable to what I had before. A little more expensive, but the rates were getting jacked up all the time at the previous job anyhow.

Job #1 is similar as far as benefits go.

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I would use #2 to try to speed up #1 and feel out getting more $ out of #1.  

I'm in IT as well and have never felt comfortable with contract work.  Maybe I've missed out on $, but I've never been out of work or had to relocate.

Now this is a little different but my son had a similar situation when he graduated college.  Job he really wanted and one the was good but not what he really wanted to do.

Job2 made him a formal offer and he called Job1 and explained they were really the company he wanted to work for etc etc etc.  He received an offer from Job 1 the next day

Doug B said:

Daughter is almost 15, son is 11. My daughter is in an arts program locally that is difficult to get into and we would be loathe to leave behind.

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Based on this and other info...

I would negotiate with #1 and ask for more, be transparent about your other offer.  If you don't 'need' the money than stick with #1.  If you are in a tough spot or rough spot financially (this means lots of debt, multiple types of debt, smaller retirement # than you would like, not prepared for college $$) than if #1 doesn't budge I would follow the dough

Doesn't sound like there is much 'allure' to Job #2 other than the money...also I may have missed this, but what is wrong with the current job and the reason for leaving it to consider these two jobs?  For me, considering all the benefits to the family of staying put, I don't know if I'd consider Job #2.  Probably Job #1 or bust (stay put).

Chapelboy said:

Doesn't sound like there is much 'allure' to Job #2 other than the money...also I may have missed this, but what is wrong with the current job and the reason for leaving it to consider these two jobs?  For me, considering all the benefits to the family of staying put, I don't know if I'd consider Job #2.  Probably Job #1 or bust (stay put).

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He said above he is out of work currently due to recent layoff.

I thought the thread title read "Dancing Job Offers" and got really excited.  Oh well.

thayman said:

To your first paragraph, no nothing wrong with telling Job#1 that you have an offer out there.  I'd probably tell them that they are your first choice, but you are being aggressively perused by another company.  Hopefully that will get them to speed up a bit so they don't miss out on you.

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This. Use it to get more money too. It will help to make up some for the error of giving the employer a salary first. 

Always ask for more money than you expect to receive. You just might get it. If they say yes to your first offer you left money on the table. 

Chapelboy said:

Doesn't sound like there is much 'allure' to Job #2 other than the money...

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Yeah, the work itself would actually be fine. Just don't want to up in the air again in 12 months. If it were a direct hire by the Job #2's client firm to be an employee instead of a contractor, I'd almost certainly take the offer -- but then, the salary offer would be lower.

but what is wrong with the current job and the reason for leaving it to consider these two jobs? 

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Someone answered for me above, but yeah ... laid off.

ChiefD said:

Ages of kids?

Job #2 doesn't feel right (and I'm just a dude on the internet reading this for the first time). No reason why there shouldn't be a written offer at this point. Plus, you have no idea what you will have to do to uproot your family down the road. Extra money is nice and all, but if they are this wishy washy right out of the gate, just wait until this contract runs out in a year and you have uncertainty all over again. Just smells weird.

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Thing is...once Doug B starts shelling out full price for healthcare, a 40% raise won't go that far.

Agree with Chief.....something doesn't smell right if an official offer wasn't extended.

guru_007 said:

are you presently employed?   how far away is job #2?  Age/range to retirement?

There are a lot of factors in play here.

If it were me, I'd probably give company 1 a call and let them know you are being aggressively recruited by another firm.  Your preference would be to work for them, but without an offer, you are feeling a bit hanging in the wind - if there is anything they could do to give a time table as to offer letter, start date that would be appreciated.

I'd let company 2 do all the leg work and once you have a firm offer in hand from them, you'll need to piss or get off the pot.

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This

I’ll be honest and say I’d think about job 2 way more than you are. My wife left her permanent recruiting job for a contract position at a company everyone knows. She was employed by the contracting firm and she did so well that the company she was contracting at (not the contractor) offered her a job with an offer that blew the doors off of her previous permanent job. It was well worth the risk. Now we were in a nice position that we both work but still it was a risk and it paid off big time.

I think the big thing missing in this discussion is the company you will actually be working for and what you think of them. It’s certainly not unheard of to be hired by a company from a contracting firm. 

stbugs said:

I’ll be honest and say I’d think about job 2 way more than you are. My wife left her permanent recruiting job for a contract position at a company everyone knows. She was employed by the contracting firm and she did so well that the company she was contracting at (not the contractor) offered her a job with an offer that blew the doors off of her previous permanent job. It was well worth the risk. Now we were in a nice position that we both work but still it was a risk and it paid off big time.

I think the big thing missing in this discussion is the company you will actually be working for and what you think of them. It’s certainly not unheard of to be hired by a company from a contracting firm. 

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I get your point, but the below from the OP makes me think that could still be risky.  I see this all the time in Oil and gas.  A boom/bust economy means lots of contractors when its boom and thin staff when its bust.

Doug B said:

It's a shame the client firm itself is not hiring me on as a permanent employee -- they are a rock-solid firm, albeit in an up-and-down industry. I guess heavy use of contractors makes it easier for them to bulk up / lean down as the market demands.

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stbugs said:

I’ll be honest and say I’d think about job 2 way more than you are. My wife left her permanent recruiting job for a contract position at a company everyone knows. She was employed by the contracting firm and she did so well that the company she was contracting at (not the contractor) offered her a job with an offer that blew the doors off of her previous permanent job. It was well worth the risk. Now we were in a nice position that we both work but still it was a risk and it paid off big time.

I think the big thing missing in this discussion is the company you will actually be working for and what you think of them. It’s certainly not unheard of to be hired by a company from a contracting firm. 

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It also depends how good you actually are.  I ended up receiving permanent offers both times that I went the contract route.  There is an advantage for the employer to being able to take 12 months before  making a permanent offer.  If you're average, they can just let you back into the market with no real cost to them.  If you are awesome and decent fit, it's probably worth the one time fee to bring you in permanently.

Vanilla Guerrilla said:

It also depends how good you actually are.  I ended up receiving permanent offers both times that I went the contract route.  There is an advantage for the employer to being able to take 12 months before  making a permanent offer.  If you're average, they can just let you back into the market with no real cost to them.  If you are awesome and decent fit, it's probably worth the one time fee to bring you in permanently.

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Very true. My wife has been one of their top recruiters and they hired her way before we thought they would. For her it was the perfect risk. 

As a contractor, does Job #2 give you benefits? Or are you OK thru spouse?

Poke_4_Life said:

I get your point, but the below from the OP makes me think that could still be risky.  I see this all the time in Oil and gas.  A boom/bust economy means lots of contractors when its boom and thin staff when its bust.

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True. I guess that’s why I would consider the actual company he’d be working for a bit more. Maybe it isn’t a good fit long term but maybe it is better than job 1. Also, @Vanilla Guerrilla made a great point, I don’t know if the OP considers himself a star. If he is, then there’s less of a risk that he won’t stay on with contractor or get hired by firm he’d be working for as a contractor. 

Mr. Ected said:

As a contractor, does Job #2 give you benefits? Or are you OK thru spouse?

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He said it’s just a bit more than the company who laid him off. 

Poke_4_Life said:

I get your point, but the below from the OP makes me think that could still be risky.  I see this all the time in Oil and gas.  A boom/bust economy means lots of contractors when its boom and thin staff when its bust.

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Ding ding ding ding!

stbugs said:

Mr. Ected said:

As a contractor, does Job #2 give you benefits? Or are you OK thru spouse?

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He said it’s just a bit more than the company who laid him off. 

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Not more benefits ... similar benefits that cost a bit more. Though I'd be contracting, I'd still be getting benefits through the contracting company. I wouldn't be an independent contractor, if that makes things clearer.

Doug B said:

Not more benefits ... similar benefits that cost a bit more. Though I'd be contracting, I'd still be getting benefits through the contracting company. I wouldn't be an independent contractor, if that makes things clearer.

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It does and that’s what I meant, cost a bit more. 

Doug B said:

stbugs said:

Mr. Ected said:

As a contractor, does Job #2 give you benefits? Or are you OK thru spouse?

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He said it’s just a bit more than the company who laid him off. 

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Not more benefits ... similar benefits that cost a bit more. Though I'd be contracting, I'd still be getting benefits through the contracting company. I wouldn't be an independent contractor, if that makes things clearer.

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Would it be thru similar company, so that there would not be changes in doctors and such?

stbugs said:

True. I guess that’s why I would consider the actual company he’d be working for a bit more. Maybe it isn’t a good fit long term but maybe it is better than job 1. Also, @Vanilla Guerrilla made a great point, I don’t know if the OP considers himself a star. If he is, then there’s less of a risk that he won’t stay on with contractor or get hired by firm he’d be working for as a contractor. 

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I have no reason to believe that Job #2 is a "contract to hire" position in disguise.

thayman said:

To your first paragraph, no nothing wrong with telling Job#1 that you have an offer out there.  I'd probably tell them that they are your first choice, but you are being aggressively perused by another company.  Hopefully that will get them to speed up a bit so they don't miss out on you.

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This ended up being the right short-term answer -- I just called Job #1, and now my offer letter is coming "within the hour."

Upon my request, Job # 2 did e-mail me a written offer about an hour and a half ago. So ... shortly I'll have two written offers in hand.

Mr. Ected said:

Would it be thru similar company, so that there would not be changes in doctors and such?

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Not sure on the specific insurance company. A lot of the doctors around here take almost all common insurance plans ... we don't really have any must-have doctors, anyhow.

Doug B said:

This ended up being the right short-term answer -- I just called Job #1, and now my offer letter is coming "within the hour."

Upon my request, Job # 2 did e-mail me a written offer about an hour and a half ago. So ... shortly I'll have two written offers in hand.

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Congratulations by the way!

Doug B said:

This ended up being the right short-term answer -- I just called Job #1, and now my offer letter is coming "within the hour."

Upon my request, Job # 2 did e-mail me a written offer about an hour and a half ago. So ... shortly I'll have two written offers in hand.

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Great news.

Now, for the sake of all of us, don't keep us hanging. We are invested in your future now. 

Doug B said:

Mr. Ected said:

Would it be thru similar company, so that there would not be changes in doctors and such?

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Not sure on the specific insurance company. A lot of the doctors around here take almost all common insurance plans ... we don't really have any must-have doctors, anyhow.

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That's good. We're here just to force you to think!

Congrats and good luck.

Mr. Ected said:

That's good. We're here just to force you to think!

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Exactly why I started this thread.

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Thanks for the well wishes, everyone.

congrats

#1 all the way. Congrats.  Economy probably doesn't get much better but more risk to downside in the future. Good time to find a perm job with the family/no relocation.