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Faust

Dynasty & Redraft: WR D.J. Moore, Panthers

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2 minutes ago, Faust said:

So...no?
 

Man, had such high hopes for Moore but he's clearly backseat to Robbie Anderson, and not finding chemistry with Bridgewater, as this article notes.

Tough match up, and have to play him because of byes, but can totally see him disappointing once again.

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I'm hoping Moore is finally a plug and a play for my team now. I've sat him a couple of times, I almost did today.

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I’ll be that guy.

Still not happy with him being regularly out-targeted by Anderson. :scared:

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7 minutes ago, zamboni said:

I’ll be that guy.

Still not happy with him being regularly out-targeted by Anderson. :scared:

Embrace the efficiency! 😀

Edited by DAG

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19 minutes ago, DAG said:

Embrace the efficiency! 😀

That’s been his problem this year - poor efficiency. Hopefully things have turned the corner with him and Teddy.

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Just now, zamboni said:

That’s been his problem this year - poor efficiency. Hopefully things have turned the corner with him and Teddy.

Oh, no doubt. He seems more himself lately.

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Just now, JoeSteeler said:

Exactly 93 yards receiving 3 games in a row :tinfoilhat:

It’s great the only league I have him we get a 5 point bonus for 100+!

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2 minutes ago, JoeSteeler said:

Exactly 93 yards receiving 3 games in a row :tinfoilhat:

And Fantasy Sharks has him projected for..... 83.  Maybe is a typo?

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On 10/25/2020 at 1:09 PM, zamboni said:

I’ll be that guy.

Still not happy with him being regularly out-targeted by Anderson. :scared:

Let's not look a gift horse in the mouth. I believe he is about 75 yards shy of Anderson and has 2 more TDs.

I think we all got lulled into thinking he would be the main target focus, and Robbie Anderson continues to not only be "the guy" but having a tremendous season.

But I also believe Moore is within 10 targets of Anderson now as well.

Let's enjoy the production and hope we don't jinx it by wanting even more than he's giving us. CAR has a terrific match up tomorrow so hope he can continue the point flow.

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I'm finally gave up trying to choose a few weeks ago and am starting both him and Robbie and a 2wr/2flex PPR and have been very happy with results. Seems like one of them always has a top 10 week as thus far the third+ WR is pretty much an afterthought in this offense.

Targets

  • Robbie 59
  • DJ 53
  • RBs 50
  • Samuel 29

After that there are literally ZERO WRs with targets on this offense. :loco:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2020.htm

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5 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Let's not look a gift horse in the mouth. I believe he is about 75 yards shy of Anderson and has 2 more TDs.

I think we all got lulled into thinking he would be the main target focus, and Robbie Anderson continues to not only be "the guy" but having a tremendous season.

But I also believe Moore is within 10 targets of Anderson now as well.

Let's enjoy the production and hope we don't jinx it by wanting even more than he's giving us. CAR has a terrific match up tomorrow so hope he can continue the point flow.

I hear you, GB.

Guess I'm still grieving a bit that he's not the target monster we expected, but things do seem to be heading in the right direction.

As you say, have to credit Robby here - he's been playing out of his mind and seems to have a bit more chemistry with Teddy (probably hearkening back to their Jets time together).

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I’m suddenly stuck with a plethora of viable fantasy WRs. 

I’d love to trade DJ Moore before tonight but having a hard time finding someone willing to offer much of value. Redraft. 

If not, He’s a solid start for me tonight with what I’m hoping is a high scoring game.

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8 hours ago, VikingFrog said:

I’m suddenly stuck with a plethora of viable fantasy WRs. 

I’d love to trade DJ Moore before tonight but having a hard time finding someone willing to offer much of value. Redraft. 

If not, He’s a solid start for me tonight with what I’m hoping is a high scoring game.

You may have more luck trading him after tonight - he should have a big game.

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Watching the game and seeing Bridgewater try to hit Moore on his first target of the game. 

Illustrates why owning Moore has been frustrating despite his recent breakout, and maybe why Anderson is still the preferred target.

Ball was thrown into a tight coverage window, but well thrown and the ball hits Moore's hands and bounces off of it before he takes the hit for coming across the middle.

Moore definitely heard footsteps, and that was a tight spot for sure, but you HAVE to catch those kinds of balls. 

And it's not the first time I've watched Moore have balls hit him where they need to be, just to see him not make a play that's expected of any NFL WR.

Guy has to be better on those kinds of catches. 

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Droppable in all formats

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The Panthers were just saving him for the final drive of the game!

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As long as Bridgewater is QB, he is a WR3. Just accept it, and you will feel all your stress wash away.

Edited by LordHusker
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52 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

Droppable in all formats

That's just it. 

No way he's droppable.

Guy had 8/120 off of 13 targets in game 2. Games 1, 3, and 4 he was average at best -- 7-8 points in my league's PPR format with 2-4 catches for about 50 yards or so.

Then he has a three game stretch like weeks 5-7: 4/93/1, 5/93, 4/93/2. 

Then back to a 2 catch 55 yard night.

Wildly inconsistent. Zero dependability. Drops way more than he should. Displaced by Robbie and Teddy hardly looks his way most snaps.

But he's still a top 25 WR (at least he is in my PPR league ). Guy is sitting 7th in overall yards with his game tonight and Top 12 or so before tonight's game.  

You likely drafted him as a WR2 at most, and on average he's getting the fantasy points to stay at that spot.

He is absolutely not droppable.

But he's hard to trust and start, and I highly doubt you can get trade value for him so he is simply an immovable anchor of a spot on your team.

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Anderson is often "preferred" because he's running a quick slant or crosser into the area a blitz just came from.   DJM was wide open on an easy crosser for 15 plus yards and Teddy bombs it to Samuel incomplete. 

It's hard to get the ball to receivers running routes deeper down field when you're facing pressure every drop back. I think people read too much into target preferences.  Usually the offense prefers the player who has the right matchup or is in the right position to beat the defense. 

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Quote

D.J. Moore caught 2-of-6 targets for 55 yards in the Panthers' Week 8 loss to the Falcons. 

Moore's first catch did not come until 2:58 remaining, when he hauled in a 13-yarder to inaugurate a potential game-tying drive. He then corralled a 42-yarder on 3rd-and-17 moments later, putting rookie CB A.J. Terrell on skates. That was all she wrote for a player who entered the evening with three straight 93-yard performances. Amazingly, Moore's six targets this evening were actually second most in his past four games. Robby Anderson once again led the Panthers in looks. Frustrating, but Moore is doing enough damage down the field to keep himself in the top 12-18 on a weekly basis. The Chiefs' tough defense is on tap for a Week 9 matchup that is sure to have a high total. 

Oct 29, 2020, 11:54 PM ET

 

 

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Aikman summed it up pretty well tonight.  At one point he mentioned Moore having zero catches, and he basically said Atlanta defense wasn’t doing anything special to him, Teddy just wasn’t looking his way much if at all. Several times he was open and Teddy went to Samuel or Anderson instead. 
 

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3 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Watching the game and seeing Bridgewater try to hit Moore on his first target of the game. 

Illustrates why owning Moore has been frustrating despite his recent breakout, and maybe why Anderson is still the preferred target.

Ball was thrown into a tight coverage window, but well thrown and the ball hits Moore's hands and bounces off of it before he takes the hit for coming across the middle.

Moore definitely heard footsteps, and that was a tight spot for sure, but you HAVE to catch those kinds of balls. 

And it's not the first time I've watched Moore have balls hit him where they need to be, just to see him not make a play that's expected of any NFL WR.

Guy has to be better on those kinds of catches. 

Dude he was wide open SEVERAL times in this game, all throughout, and Teddy just never would look his way for some reason until literally the final drive of the game.  It was one of the strangest things I've seen in awhile.  You could tell he was frustrated too when he caught that first ball on the final drive.  The first ball my have technically been a drop, but lets not pretend it was the easiest catch in the world.  Absolutely no excuse a guy this talented should be so lightly involved in the game plan.  And while I believe Teddy has played surprisingly well so far this season, he was positively atrocious tonight.  Trust me, I'm frustrated too.  I have the dude in three leagues.  But I don't put this on DJ.

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1 hour ago, LordHusker said:

As long as Bridgewater is QB, he is a WR3. Just accept it, and you will feel all your stress wash away.

Anderson and Moore were the top WR yardage in the NFL duo heading into this game.  Perhaps it's an overreaction in a game where the 2nd quarter was a monsoon, and the starter was also knocked out for a couple series and really never should have went back in.  I own Moore in 3/6 of my dynasty leagues.  I'm hoping people are foolish enough to sell.

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1 hour ago, kittenmittens said:

Anderson is often "preferred" because he's running a quick slant or crosser into the area a blitz just came from.   DJM was wide open on an easy crosser for 15 plus yards and Teddy bombs it to Samuel incomplete. 

It's hard to get the ball to receivers running routes deeper down field when you're facing pressure every drop back. I think people read too much into target preferences.  Usually the offense prefers the player who has the right matchup or is in the right position to beat the defense. 

I don't understand.

Anderson is preferred because he's running slants but DJ gets ignored..when he runs slants? 

I don't think it's controversial to say a QB prefers the player who is open, and QBs sometimes miss open players, but it's not like Moore doesn't get open. He looked more ignored tonight than anything related to who was getting open or had the right match up.

It also seems you are presupposing that Bridgewater has more trouble reaching Moore downfield when he's under pressure. But that also presupposes that Moore is the guy who is traditionally running streak routes while Anderson runs out of the slot.

Both players line up all over the field, and both see a relatively equal mix of routes. If anything, I would say Moore runs more sharp digs/outs and crossers than Anderson, who does the same but his routes tend to be flatter.

1 hour ago, JoeJoe88 said:

Dude he was wide open SEVERAL times in this game, all throughout, and Teddy just never would look his way for some reason until literally the final drive of the game.  It was one of the strangest things I've seen in awhile.  You could tell he was frustrated too when he caught that first ball on the final drive.  The first ball my have technically been a drop, but lets not pretend it was the easiest catch in the world.  Absolutely no excuse a guy this talented should be so lightly involved in the game plan.  And while I believe Teddy has played surprisingly well so far this season, he was positively atrocious tonight.  Trust me, I'm frustrated too.  I have the dude in three leagues.  But I don't put this on DJ.

Was clear in my post that the first drop was thrown into tight coverage. That could attribute to the drop.

But it was a drop. If the QB hits you in the hands, a WR needs to catch that ball >90% of the time. That's the job, hearing footsteps or not.

That drop happened very early in the game, and as I mentioned, I think that's why Teddy wasn't looking his way. Moore has had some critical drops this year -- including ones that hit his hands in the end zone. I think that accumulated experience, and a drop in the first target of the game where it hit his hands, may naturally make Teddy look other ways thereafter.

Agree it's not right, Moore was stellar in the last few games. Also agree Teddy was poor tonight. But it's not just tonight that Moore has been dropping passes that hit him perfectly, right where he catches.

All of this may be an overreaction -- no WR consistently puts up 20 every game. And Moore will continue to be a big part of the offense.

It just is frustrating to get a performance like this and see production regress when he could have been utilized so much more -- frustrating for all of us as well as Moore and Teddy, I am sure.

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6 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

I don't understand.

Anderson is preferred because he's running slants but DJ gets ignored..when he runs slants? 

I don't think it's controversial to say a QB prefers the player who is open, and QBs sometimes miss open players, but it's not like Moore doesn't get open. He looked more ignored tonight than anything related to who was getting open or had the right match up.

It also seems you are presupposing that Bridgewater has more trouble reaching Moore downfield when he's under pressure. But that also presupposes that Moore is the guy who is traditionally running streak routes while Anderson runs out of the slot.

Both players line up all over the field, and both see a relatively equal mix of routes. If anything, I would say Moore runs more sharp digs/outs and crossers than Anderson, who does the same but his routes tend to be flatter.

Was clear in my post that the first drop was thrown into tight coverage. That could attribute to the drop.

But it was a drop. If the QB hits you in the hands, a WR needs to catch that ball >90% of the time. That's the job, hearing footsteps or not.

That drop happened very early in the game, and as I mentioned, I think that's why Teddy wasn't looking his way. Moore has had some critical drops this year -- including ones that hit his hands in the end zone. I think that accumulated experience, and a drop in the first target of the game where it hit his hands, may naturally make Teddy look other ways thereafter.

Agree it's not right, Moore was stellar in the last few games. Also agree Teddy was poor tonight. But it's not just tonight that Moore has been dropping passes that hit him perfectly, right where he catches.

All of this may be an overreaction -- no WR consistently puts up 20 every game. And Moore will continue to be a big part of the offense.

It just is frustrating to get a performance like this and see production regress when he could have been utilized so much more -- frustrating for all of us as well as Moore and Teddy, I am sure.

I think part of this is Moore isn't playing as well we he did last year. His catch rate has never been great (67% in 2018; 64% in 2019) but it's around 56% so far this season.

But my sense is this has more to do with Teddy preferring Anderson. Maybe post-COVID Teddy and DJ can go out and have a sandwich, and Moore can convince Teddy to look his way. If so, 2023 is going to be magical. 

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Not sure why anyone expect that much from Bridgewater anyway. He's not a franchise QB IMO, just a game manager with limited arm strength. 

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5 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

Not sure why anyone expect that much from Bridgewater anyway. He's not a franchise QB IMO, just a game manager with limited arm strength. 

I mostly agree on Bridgewater's limits, but he's got Anderson as the #7 WR in ppr. 

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32 minutes ago, DAG said:

I mostly agree on Bridgewater's limits, but he's got Anderson as the #7 WR in ppr. 

 

12 minutes ago, Wigglytuff's Gruff said:

And DJ Moore top 15.

And Michael Thomas was #1WR during Teddy B's 5 or 6 game stretch last year, I want to say around 24 PPG.

It is surprising because I agree Teddy is a game manager with limited arm strength, he's Alex Smith like to me and I believe his signing will prove to be a mistake (because he will help them win enough to not get a top notch QB in the draft)

As for DJ Moore, and I know Aikman alluded to this on his stiff arm but I saw a play from him last week were I thought the same thing, and that is he looks frustrated or po'ed. I've read nothing but good stuff about his character so I don't think he's necessarily selfish, just frustrated he's not being given enough chances to make plays.

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1 hour ago, ffmail4me said:

Not sure why anyone expect that much from Bridgewater anyway. He's not a franchise QB IMO, just a game manager with limited arm strength. 

Don't expect much but this was Atlanta.  Expected a hell of a lot more.

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1 hour ago, DAG said:

I think part of this is Moore isn't playing as well we he did last year. His catch rate has never been great (67% in 2018; 64% in 2019) but it's around 56% so far this season.

But my sense is this has more to do with Teddy preferring Anderson. Maybe post-COVID Teddy and DJ can go out and have a sandwich, and Moore can convince Teddy to look his way. If so, 2023 is going to be magical. 

Remember all a WR had to do was whine publicly in the press about not getting looks and targets, and BAM! a cornucopia of targets, guaranteed 100/2 TDs.

16 minutes ago, menobrown said:

 

And Michael Thomas was #1WR during Teddy B's 5 or 6 game stretch last year, I want to say around 24 PPG.

It is surprising because I agree Teddy is a game manager with limited arm strength, he's Alex Smith like to me and I believe his signing will prove to be a mistake (because he will help them win enough to not get a top notch QB in the draft)

As for DJ Moore, and I know Aikman alluded to this on his stiff arm but I saw a play from him last week were I thought the same thing, and that is he looks frustrated or po'ed. I've read nothing but good stuff about his character so I don't think he's necessarily selfish, just frustrated he's not being given enough chances to make plays.

I think the frustration is evident on both their part. Every receiver wants the ball more, and every QB wants to throw perfect tosses every time.

Both guys need to get better, but I will say that Anderson doesn't seem to have as much trouble catching Teddy's balls. 

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On 10/30/2020 at 1:11 AM, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

I don't understand.

Anderson is preferred because he's running slants but DJ gets ignored..when he runs slants? 

I don't think it's controversial to say a QB prefers the player who is open, and QBs sometimes miss open players, but it's not like Moore doesn't get open. He looked more ignored tonight than anything related to who was getting open or had the right match up.

It also seems you are presupposing that Bridgewater has more trouble reaching Moore downfield when he's under pressure. But that also presupposes that Moore is the guy who is traditionally running streak routes while Anderson runs out of the slot.

Both players line up all over the field, and both see a relatively equal mix of routes. If anything, I would say Moore runs more sharp digs/outs and crossers than Anderson, who does the same but his routes tend to be flatter.

Was clear in my post that the first drop was thrown into tight coverage. That could attribute to the drop.

But it was a drop. If the QB hits you in the hands, a WR needs to catch that ball >90% of the time. That's the job, hearing footsteps or not.

That drop happened very early in the game, and as I mentioned, I think that's why Teddy wasn't looking his way. Moore has had some critical drops this year -- including ones that hit his hands in the end zone. I think that accumulated experience, and a drop in the first target of the game where it hit his hands, may naturally make Teddy look other ways thereafter.

Agree it's not right, Moore was stellar in the last few games. Also agree Teddy was poor tonight. But it's not just tonight that Moore has been dropping passes that hit him perfectly, right where he catches.

All of this may be an overreaction -- no WR consistently puts up 20 every game. And Moore will continue to be a big part of the offense.

It just is frustrating to get a performance like this and see production regress when he could have been utilized so much more -- frustrating for all of us as well as Moore and Teddy, I am sure.

Don't try to understand, it's just variance.  What the defense gives is what they try to take, and sometimes they don't see it when it's open.   It's mostly a factor of who is lined up in the right place at the right time, since as you said they mix it up. Reading intention where there is just randomness. 

Don't flip a coin 20 times and then read into it that heads is preferred because you got 13 heads and 7 tails. 

Edited by kittenmittens
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20 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Don't try to understand, it's just variance.  What the defense gives is what they try to take, and sometimes they don't see it when it's open.   It's mostly a factor of who is lined up in the right place at the right time, since as you said they mix it up. Reading intention where there is just randomness. 

Don't flip a coin 20 times and then read into it that heads is preferred because you got 13 heads and 7 tails. 

Let’s not bring rationality into this. DJ is angering us owners and he should be getting every single target.

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On 10/30/2020 at 6:15 AM, DAG said:

I think part of this is Moore isn't playing as well we he did last year. His catch rate has never been great (67% in 2018; 64% in 2019) but it's around 56% so far this season.

Now that's an interesting stat. Average catch rate % for receivers with more than 50 passes in 2019 was 62%.

It was clear just from watching him in every game this season so far that he's not hanging on to balls as well as he did last year.

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10 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

Don't try to understand, it's just variance.  What the defense gives is what they try to take, and sometimes they don't see it when it's open.   It's mostly a factor of who is lined up in the right place at the right time, since as you said they mix it up. Reading intention where there is just randomness. 

Don't flip a coin 20 times and then read into it that heads is preferred because you got 13 heads and 7 tails. 

What exact variance are you referring to? What exactly do you think I am reading into? And what randomness are you talking about?

Pretty clear to me that Moore is dropping more balls than he should (and from stats looks like more than his past two years/baseline). 

I can't read Teddy's mind and can't say he doesn't trust Moore as much as Anderson, but it's not crazy to suggest in a game where Moore had a drop with a first catch in the game, in a season where he's dropping the ball more than usual, that Teddy might look another way in that game a little more. Going with a "hot hand" is not a foreign concept.

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2 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

What exact variance are you referring to? What exactly do you think I am reading into? And what randomness are you talking about?

Pretty clear to me that Moore is dropping more balls than he should (and from stats looks like more than his past two years/baseline). 

I can't read Teddy's mind and can't say he doesn't trust Moore as much as Anderson, but it's not crazy to suggest in a game where Moore had a drop with a first catch in the game, in a season where he's dropping the ball more than usual, that Teddy might look another way in that game a little more. Going with a "hot hand" is not a foreign concept.

The variance in what WR happens to be running what route at what time against blitz, etc. 

The variance in who the defense focuses coverage on/who has the best matchup against the defense. 

The variance in who the QB sees when they are wide open. 

The variance in who gets a pass interference flag instead of a touchdown catch. 

The variance in whether the pass is accurate. 

The variance in whether the defender plays the pass well against you while trying to secure the catch. 

So much randomness. 

Edited by kittenmittens

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I think some of us (I'm including myself here) may be too frustrated with Moore's production. He's been disappointing in terms of efficiency (eep. drops) and he's not matching his emergence from last season, but in my league (ppr, typical scoring for yardage) he's clawed his way out of middling WR2 territory and as of week 7 was the #13 overall WR in scoring. To be clear, I'm disappointed but some of the doom and gloom (again, guilty as charged) doesn't match the more recent reality. 

 

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7 minutes ago, DAG said:

I think some of us (I'm including myself here) may be too frustrated with Moore's production. He's been disappointing in terms of efficiency (eep. drops) and he's not matching his emergence from last season, but in my league (ppr, typical scoring for yardage) he's clawed his way out of middling WR2 territory and as of week 7 was the #13 overall WR in scoring. To be clear, I'm disappointed but some of the doom and gloom (again, guilty as charged) doesn't match the more recent reality. 

 

I think just a big of a factor is that most of us Moore owners didn’t expect Anderson to be as good as he is. That he would stretch the field and open things up for DJ.
 

I watched Anderson quite a bit as a Jets fan, and while he had moments of greatness, he was pretty inconsistent and seemed disinterested at times. Seems like we can now chalk some of that up to the Gase prison - plus the existing chemistry Robby has with Teddy and the coaching staff (Temple alum).

Edited by zamboni
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14 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

The variance in what WR happens to be running what route at what time against blitz, etc. 

The variance in who the defense focuses coverage on/who has the best matchup against the defense. 

The variance in who the QB sees when they are wide open. 

The variance in who gets a pass interference flag instead of a touchdown catch. 

The variance in whether the pass is accurate. 

The variance in whether the defender plays the pass well against you while trying to secure the catch. 

So much randomness. 

That perfectly makes me understand you point.

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2 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

That perfectly makes me understand you point.

I'm just saying that if Corey Davis outscores and out targets AJ Brown for a few games in a row I won't start thinking the Titans and Tannehill prefer Davis and that Davis is the WR1 on the team. 

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Anyone trusting Moore today?

KC is not the best from a match up perspective but opportunity as always is there.

I'm sitting Moore in favor of Brandin Cooks who has a better match up.

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7 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Anyone trusting Moore today?

KC is not the best from a match up perspective but opportunity as always is there.

I'm sitting Moore in favor of Brandin Cooks who has a better match up.

It's Moore or Antonio Brown for me... I'm finding it a difficult decision....

Head says Moore

Gut says AB

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