What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Iran - Democracy Movement, The Nuke Deal & The Future (1 Viewer)

Sheriff Bart said:
He said it's the worse deal of all time.  I would place a large wager he never read it.  
Click to expand...
:lmao:   cmon...he can't get through a one page morning briefing...Obama was involved = BAD no matter what

Trump is great at breaking things but not good at fixing them.  The one thing he "fixed" was the tax system and the rich people of the country really appreciate it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bucky86 said:
@StratSentinel

FollowingFollowing @StratSentinel

More

Senior US and European officials say President #Trump is likely to withdraw from the #JCPOA.

2:24 PM - 7 May 2018
Click to expand...
again...and then what?  he's got ZERO capacity to negotiate a new better deal.  so he'll pull out of the deal and they won't be monitored, is that winning?   how are we better off unless the plan is to Iraq them and just wipe them out.  Do we really want to go down that road again?

I remember him saying he was going to renegotiate a better Paris accord...how's that going?  How about the TPP...he pulled us out of that because the deal was so bad,worst ever (well maybe not as bad as Nafta or the Iran deal as they were also the worst deals in the world and its so easy to strike good new deals as you can clearly seen how many great deals he's struck so far...)...has anyone heard of his new deal on TPP front?  Actually, I heard not long ago that they tried to get back in and the TPP members said "no thanks, we're good".  

Look, if he can strike a better deal I'm 100% for it but he's that guy that will just tell you everything that's wrong but has zero solutions and won't put in the time or effort to come up with or listen to better solutions.  He just doesn't care, it's golf time, then Hannity....Obama did it so he undoes it and he wins (in his mind).....come up with a better alternative (Healthcare?) that makes sense and despite my personal hatred for the guy I would support it

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bucky86 said:
@StratSentinel

FollowingFollowing @StratSentinel

More

Senior US and European officials say President #Trump is likely to withdraw from the #JCPOA.

2:24 PM - 7 May 2018
Click to expand...
Jesus H Christ.  Obama got around the Republicans making the biggest foreign policy mistake in generations, only to have Trump come in and #### on the whole thing.  Down the road, the first Trump supporter politician that suggests military action to prevent Iran from acquiring nukes should be summarily executed.

 
Josie Maran said:
Jesus H Christ.  Obama got around the Republicans making the biggest foreign policy mistake in generations, only to have Trump come in and #### on the whole thing.  Down the road, the first Trump supporter politician that suggests military action to prevent Iran from acquiring nukes should be summarily executed.
Click to expand...
He does this but he's going to bring peace with that whack job from NK.  lol

 
Listen VERY carefully to exactly what he says today. I strongly suspect he will have an out clause- he will announce his intention to pull out, or that he will pull out on such and such a date- nothing he says today will be permanent I predict. I could be completely wrong but that is in keeping with his pattern. 

 
As I suspected, after today there is a 30 day period in which Trump is allowed to change his mind. Followed by several more months before new sanctions are actually imposed. 

So todays announcement means very little. 

 
I sort of think tim's best work on the board recently has been figuring out the Trump pattern. That was pretty enlightening to somebody who was indeed taking him at total face value.  

 
rockaction said:
I sort of think tim's best work on the board recently has been figuring out the Trump pattern. That was pretty enlightening to somebody who was indeed taking him at total face value.  
Click to expand...
I’m no genius at it. And I could be wrong.

But it just seems to me that the news is incorrectly reacting to everything he says as if it was permanent and it almost never is. In this case I don’t think it’s going to be a good thing because I’m not sure how the Iran Deal can be improved to our advantage. 

 
timschochet said:
I’m no genius at it. And I could be wrong.

But it just seems to me that the news is incorrectly reacting to everything he says as if it was permanent and it almost never is. In this case I don’t think it’s going to be a good thing because I’m not sure how the Iran Deal can be improved to our advantage. 
Click to expand...
I wasn't trying to imply it was a good trait. Simply pointing out that the bluster is part of a negotiating bluff rather than a sign of insanity is heartening. At least it's rational.  

 
"REVOKE THAT DEAL!" doesn't have quite the same ring to it as "BUILT THAT WALL!" but it accomplishes the same exact thing.

 
I don't understand why America's involvement in the deal is so critical.  Surely the trade with the remaining counties is significantly beneficial to Iran.

 
I for one am comforted by the fact that extremely rational experts in Middle Eastern affairs like Donald Trump, Mike Pompeo, and John Bolton have thought this decision through and are looking out for our best interests.  

 
I don't get the worldview that this was ever a good deal. I just...I have a hard time with it. Perhaps we don't have any leverage and this is the best we can hope for, but it seems like letting Iran supervise its own nuclear program is like having me supervise a piping hot pizza.  

 
rockaction said:
I don't get the worldview that this was ever a good deal. I just...I have a hard time with it. Perhaps we don't have any leverage and this is the best we can hope for, but it seems like letting Iran supervise its own nuclear program is like having me supervise a piping hot pizza.  
Click to expand...
The deal allowed to extensive inspections.= Obama literally said "We don't trust Iran, but this deal doesn't rely on trust. It relies on verification."

Also FWIW I have not read a single article or heard a single discussion from a trusted non-partisan expert on the region or on non-proliferation who doesn't approve of the deal. I'd challenge you to find one. And I've seen/heard plenty who approve.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bucky86 said:
Well, and we also removed sanctions from them. If we pull out, then we can impose sanctions on them again. That would hurt them, so at the point in their mind what is the point of staying in the deal?
Click to expand...
Trade with the U.K., France, Germany, Russia and China?

 
Here's a review from 2015 on who was for and against the deal at the time.  As you can see the opponents are basically Republicans rushing to oppose anything Obama did and Israeli/Jewish hardliners.  Supporters are basically everyone else on earth, including the following four groups who IMO deserve particular deference:
 

   — More than 100 former U.S. ambassadors, career and political alike, and from both parties, who signed a similar public letter endorsing the deal. It begins, “The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) with Iran stands as a landmark agreement in deterring the proliferation of nuclear weapons.”

   — More than 60 American “national-security leaders”—politicians, military officers, strategists, Republicans and Democrats—who issued their own public letter urging Congress to approve the deal. E.g., “We congratulate President Obama and all the negotiators for a landmark agreement unprecedented in its importance for preventing the acquisition of nuclear weapons by Iran.” Here are a few Republicans who signed this letter: former Special Trade Representative Carla Hills; former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill; former Senator Nancy Landon Kassebaum. Here are a few Democrats: former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright; former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell; former Defense Secretary William Perry.

   — Hans Blix, the former head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, who a dozen years ago tried to avert the disaster in Iraq. He says of the deal, “I think it is a remarkably far-reaching and detailed agreement. And I think it has a potential for stabilizing and improving the situation in the region as it gradually gets implemented.”

   — A number of Iranian dissidents, who say that the deal could shift the internal balance in their country.
Click to expand...

 
tommyGunZ said:
I for one am comforted by the fact that extremely rational experts in Middle Eastern affairs like Donald Trump, Mike Pompeo, and John Bolton have thought this decision through and are looking out for our best interests.  
Click to expand...
:lmao:

And by  :lmao: , I mean all you can do is laugh at Trump "conducting" foreign policy.

 
rockaction said:
I don't get the worldview that this was ever a good deal. I just...I have a hard time with it. Perhaps we don't have any leverage and this is the best we can hope for, but it seems like letting Iran supervise its own nuclear program is like having me supervise a piping hot pizza.  
Click to expand...
Here’s the thing: if you want to stop a nation from obtaining nukes, there are basically only 3 strategies: 

1. Bribe them

2. Punish them

3. Go to war with them. 

I’m generally for #1. It’s not sure proof. #3 is the only sure proof method. Obama tried #2 on both Iran and N. Korea and then switched to #1 on  Iran. Trump is trying out #1 on North Korea but apparently switching back to #2 on Iran. Only without the rest of the world behind us this time. 

 
Trump's on his way to finding "his" war. I anticipate active engagement some time in spring of 2020.

 
Henry Ford said:
Hey, do me favor?  Maybe start posting articles by journalists and not opinion pieces from Newsweek?
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what I'll do just for you, Henry. I remember that this was being reported on back in 2016 by actual journalists. You didn't address the content of soil testing though. If I'm not understanding the agreement, perhaps this was just made up out of thin air by this guy. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Whatever you think about the deal itself, we can't be trusted to abide by our word anymore. Trump saw this as something Obama did, not something the United States agreed to. He doesn't think in terms of governance or policy and just backing out of agreements willy nilly because you don't like them is stupid. 

 
Yeah but other than that, how did you like the play Mrs. Lincoln?

Mohsen Milani‏ @milanimohsen

CNN’s Amanpour: “I would describe pulling out of this deal [nuke deal] as possibly the greatest deliberate act of self-harm and self-sabotage in geo-strategic politics in the modern era.” @camanpour

 
Plorfu said:
Whatever you think about the deal itself, we can't be trusted to abide by our word anymore. Trump saw this as something Obama did, not something the United States agreed to. He doesn't think in terms of governance or policy and just backing out of agreements willy nilly because you don't like them is stupid. 
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

There's two separate screw-ups here.  The first is the merits of the deal (I guess it's debatable even though all the experts seem to agree) and the absence of an alternative plan/a leader with a functioning brain to formulate and implement one (obviously not debatable). The second is that this undermines foreign policy more broadly. How can any foreign leader trust America to stand by its word?

 
Plorfu said:
Whatever you think about the deal itself, we can't be trusted to abide by our word anymore. Trump saw this as something Obama did, not something the United States agreed to. He doesn't think in terms of governance or policy and just backing out of agreements willy nilly because you don't like them is stupid. 
Click to expand...
Along this same line.....why would NK (or any other country) negotiate any kind of agreement with Trump and expect him to live up to our end of the deal?

 
Bucky86 said:
Well, and we also removed sanctions from them. If we pull out, then we can impose sanctions on them again. That would hurt them, so at the point in their mind what is the point of staying in the deal?
Click to expand...
To drive a wedge between us and our European allies.  If they remain in the agreement in good faith and play this as "the right thing to do" politically, it's a massive win for them on the world stage and at the same time delegitimizes the US's word on the world stage.  So now, the US pulls out.  Great.  We reapply out sanctions.  Then what?  Are we expecting everyone to follow?  If so, WTF would make anyone assume they'd follow our lead?  Our sanctions aren't ever going to be enough to affect change in Iran by themselves.

I'm not saying I liked the Iran deal at the beginning, mainly because it provided no assurances that the monies would filter down to the people of the country.  As shown, I was right about that.  It's no surprise that the money stayed with the elite and government.  But if someone could please outline the ways we are now in a stronger position with Iran than we were while in the deal, I'd appreciate it.  I don't see them.

 
I'd be willing to bet the farm* that Trump has absolutely no idea what the "Iran Nuke Deal" is.  He probably thinks it's something that Obama did to give weapons to Iran.

*not worth that much any more thanks to China's retaliatory actions

 
Plorfu said:
Whatever you think about the deal itself, we can't be trusted to abide by our word anymore. Trump saw this as something Obama did, not something the United States agreed to. He doesn't think in terms of governance or policy and just backing out of agreements willy nilly because you don't like them is stupid. 
Click to expand...
A treaty would be honored.  Probably why we have them.

 
Negar‏ @NegarMortazavi

You know the era of American leadership in the world is ending when IRAN can say we stood by our international commitments (which they did) and the U.S. did not.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

GordonGekko
The Atlantic: "Democrats Really Are That Dense About Climate Change" (6/23/22 01:00 PST)
Replies
47
Views
1K
Maggot Brain
Maggot Brain
GordonGekko
OP/ED: J6 Committee's Liz Cheney Embodies The Worst Character Traits Of Donald Trump (6/24/22 18:05 PST)
Replies
26
Views
804
GordonGekko
GordonGekko
GordonGekko
OP/ED: Explaining Why Donald Trump Going To Prison Would Be Good For America (7/12/22 21:26 PST)
Replies
3
Views
341
GordonGekko
GordonGekko

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top