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Iran - The Nuke Deal & The Future

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He's announcing his decision on the Iran Deal tomorrow from the White house at 2pm. I assume the bloated tangerine manatee is going to pull out since he's making it into a cliffhanger and wants to make a production out of it.

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4 minutes ago, Plorfu said:

He's announcing his decision on the Iran Deal tomorrow from the White house at 2pm. I assume the bloated tangerine manatee is going to pull out since he's making it into a cliffhanger and wants to make a production out of it.

He said it's the worse deal of all time.  I would place a large wager he never read it.  My guess is he makes up a lie(s) about Iran making concessions, declares victory, and it moves forward as is.

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27 minutes ago, Plorfu said:

He's announcing his decision on the Iran Deal tomorrow from the White house at 2pm. I assume the bloated tangerine manatee is going to pull out since he's making it into a cliffhanger and wants to make a production out of it.

well, since he hired a black ops team to try and find ways to undermine the individuals that were involved in the deal tells you the amount of objectivity he has heading into this "decision".

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26 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

He said it's the worse deal of all time.  I would place a large wager he never read it.  

:lmao:  cmon...he can't get through a one page morning briefing...Obama was involved = BAD no matter what

Trump is great at breaking things but not good at fixing them.  The one thing he "fixed" was the tax system and the rich people of the country really appreciate it.

Edited by Banger

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@StratSentinel

FollowingFollowing @StratSentinel

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Senior US and European officials say President #Trump is likely to withdraw from the #JCPOA.

2:24 PM - 7 May 2018

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10 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

 

@StratSentinel

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Senior US and European officials say President #Trump is likely to withdraw from the #JCPOA.

2:24 PM - 7 May 2018

again...and then what?  he's got ZERO capacity to negotiate a new better deal.  so he'll pull out of the deal and they won't be monitored, is that winning?   how are we better off unless the plan is to Iraq them and just wipe them out.  Do we really want to go down that road again?

I remember him saying he was going to renegotiate a better Paris accord...how's that going?  How about the TPP...he pulled us out of that because the deal was so bad,worst ever (well maybe not as bad as Nafta or the Iran deal as they were also the worst deals in the world and its so easy to strike good new deals as you can clearly seen how many great deals he's struck so far...)...has anyone heard of his new deal on TPP front?  Actually, I heard not long ago that they tried to get back in and the TPP members said "no thanks, we're good".  

Look, if he can strike a better deal I'm 100% for it but he's that guy that will just tell you everything that's wrong but has zero solutions and won't put in the time or effort to come up with or listen to better solutions.  He just doesn't care, it's golf time, then Hannity....Obama did it so he undoes it and he wins (in his mind).....come up with a better alternative (Healthcare?) that makes sense and despite my personal hatred for the guy I would support it

Edited by Banger
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2 hours ago, Bucky86 said:

 

@StratSentinel

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Senior US and European officials say President #Trump is likely to withdraw from the #JCPOA.

2:24 PM - 7 May 2018

Jesus H Christ.  Obama got around the Republicans making the biggest foreign policy mistake in generations, only to have Trump come in and #### on the whole thing.  Down the road, the first Trump supporter politician that suggests military action to prevent Iran from acquiring nukes should be summarily executed.

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3 hours ago, Josie Maran said:

Jesus H Christ.  Obama got around the Republicans making the biggest foreign policy mistake in generations, only to have Trump come in and #### on the whole thing.  Down the road, the first Trump supporter politician that suggests military action to prevent Iran from acquiring nukes should be summarily executed.

He does this but he's going to bring peace with that whack job from NK.  lol

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Peter Baker‏Verified account @peterbakernyt

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Trump told Macron this morning that he will announce withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal. Trump is preparing to reinstate all sanctions waived as part of the nuclear accord — and impose additional economic penalties as well. @MarkLandler

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Listen VERY carefully to exactly what he says today. I strongly suspect he will have an out clause- he will announce his intention to pull out, or that he will pull out on such and such a date- nothing he says today will be permanent I predict. I could be completely wrong but that is in keeping with his pattern. 

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https://www.c-span.org/video/?445218-1/president-trump-announces-iran-nuclear-deal-decision

Just bracing for $4-$5 gasoline and a new war.  Between the collusion story on Black Cube/Israel and Bolton's affinity for MEK, a straightup terrorist organization, it looks like they're squaring up on Iran as the new regime change target.  

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As I suspected, after today there is a 30 day period in which Trump is allowed to change his mind. Followed by several more months before new sanctions are actually imposed. 

So todays announcement means very little. 

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I sort of think tim's best work on the board recently has been figuring out the Trump pattern. That was pretty enlightening to somebody who was indeed taking him at total face value.  

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8 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I sort of think tim's best work on the board recently has been figuring out the Trump pattern. That was pretty enlightening to somebody who was indeed taking him at total face value.  

I’m no genius at it. And I could be wrong.

But it just seems to me that the news is incorrectly reacting to everything he says as if it was permanent and it almost never is. In this case I don’t think it’s going to be a good thing because I’m not sure how the Iran Deal can be improved to our advantage. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

I’m no genius at it. And I could be wrong.

But it just seems to me that the news is incorrectly reacting to everything he says as if it was permanent and it almost never is. In this case I don’t think it’s going to be a good thing because I’m not sure how the Iran Deal can be improved to our advantage. 

I wasn't trying to imply it was a good trait. Simply pointing out that the bluster is part of a negotiating bluff rather than a sign of insanity is heartening. At least it's rational.  

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5 minutes ago, packersfan said:

It tears down something Obama did.

Yay.

Makes sense.

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I don't understand why America's involvement in the deal is so critical.  Surely the trade with the remaining counties is significantly beneficial to Iran.

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Nothing....absolutely nothing.....DJT does is rational. Please refrain from categorizing anything he does as "rational."

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I for one am comforted by the fact that extremely rational experts in Middle Eastern affairs like Donald Trump, Mike Pompeo, and John Bolton have thought this decision through and are looking out for our best interests.  

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3 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

I don't understand why America's involvement in the deal is so critical.  Surely the trade with the remaining counties is significantly beneficial to Iran.

Well...we are basically promising to not blow them up...

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I don't get the worldview that this was ever a good deal. I just...I have a hard time with it. Perhaps we don't have any leverage and this is the best we can hope for, but it seems like letting Iran supervise its own nuclear program is like having me supervise a piping hot pizza.  

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1 minute ago, Bucky86 said:

Well...we are basically promising to not blow them up...

So their main concern is the U.S. will unilaterally attack Iran going against the wishes of our closest allies?  (I'm seriously asking.)

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6 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I don't get the worldview that this was ever a good deal. I just...I have a hard time with it. Perhaps we don't have any leverage and this is the best we can hope for, but it seems like letting Iran supervise its own nuclear program is like having me supervise a piping hot pizza.  

The deal allowed to extensive inspections.= Obama literally said "We don't trust Iran, but this deal doesn't rely on trust. It relies on verification."

Also FWIW I have not read a single article or heard a single discussion from a trusted non-partisan expert on the region or on non-proliferation who doesn't approve of the deal. I'd challenge you to find one. And I've seen/heard plenty who approve.

 

Edited by TobiasFunke

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6 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I don't get the worldview that this was ever a good deal. I just...I have a hard time with it. Perhaps we don't have any leverage and this is the best we can hope for, but it seems like letting Iran supervise its own nuclear program is like having me supervise a piping hot pizza.  

That appears to be because you don't understand the agreement.

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4 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

So their main concern is the U.S. will unilaterally attack Iran going against the wishes of our closest allies?  (I'm seriously asking.)

Well, and we also removed sanctions from them. If we pull out, then we can impose sanctions on them again. That would hurt them, so at the point in their mind what is the point of staying in the deal?

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Just now, Bucky86 said:

Well, and we also removed sanctions from them. If we pull out, then we can impose sanctions on them again. That would hurt them, so at the point in their mind what is the point of staying in the deal?

Trade with the U.K., France, Germany, Russia and China?

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Here's a review from 2015 on who was for and against the deal at the time.  As you can see the opponents are basically Republicans rushing to oppose anything Obama did and Israeli/Jewish hardliners.  Supporters are basically everyone else on earth, including the following four groups who IMO deserve particular deference:
 

Quote

 

   — More than 100 former U.S. ambassadors, career and political alike, and from both parties, who signed a similar public letter endorsing the deal. It begins, “The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) with Iran stands as a landmark agreement in deterring the proliferation of nuclear weapons.”

   — More than 60 American “national-security leaders”—politicians, military officers, strategists, Republicans and Democrats—who issued their own public letter urging Congress to approve the deal. E.g., “We congratulate President Obama and all the negotiators for a landmark agreement unprecedented in its importance for preventing the acquisition of nuclear weapons by Iran.” Here are a few Republicans who signed this letter: former Special Trade Representative Carla Hills; former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill; former Senator Nancy Landon Kassebaum. Here are a few Democrats: former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright; former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell; former Defense Secretary William Perry.

   — Hans Blix, the former head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, who a dozen years ago tried to avert the disaster in Iraq. He says of the deal, “I think it is a remarkably far-reaching and detailed agreement. And I think it has a potential for stabilizing and improving the situation in the region as it gradually gets implemented.”

   — A number of Iranian dissidents, who say that the deal could shift the internal balance in their country.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Juxtatarot said:

Trade with the U.K., France, Germany, Russia and China?

Hey, good thing we could give China another big win.  Sure has been tough for them under Trump, eh?

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15 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

I for one am comforted by the fact that extremely rational experts in Middle Eastern affairs like Donald Trump, Mike Pompeo, and John Bolton have thought this decision through and are looking out for our best interests.  

:lmao:

And by :lmao:, I mean all you can do is laugh at Trump "conducting" foreign policy.

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10 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I don't get the worldview that this was ever a good deal. I just...I have a hard time with it. Perhaps we don't have any leverage and this is the best we can hope for, but it seems like letting Iran supervise its own nuclear program is like having me supervise a piping hot pizza.  

Here’s the thing: if you want to stop a nation from obtaining nukes, there are basically only 3 strategies: 

1. Bribe them

2. Punish them

3. Go to war with them. 

I’m generally for #1. It’s not sure proof. #3 is the only sure proof method. Obama tried #2 on both Iran and N. Korea and then switched to #1 on  Iran. Trump is trying out #1 on North Korea but apparently switching back to #2 on Iran. Only without the rest of the world behind us this time. 

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59 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?445218-1/president-trump-announces-iran-nuclear-deal-decision

Just bracing for $4-$5 gasoline and a new war.  Between the collusion story on Black Cube/Israel and Bolton's affinity for MEK, a straightup terrorist organization, it looks like they're squaring up on Iran as the new regime change target.  

Bolton or Giuliani? Because Giuliani has lobbied for them.

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CSIS put out a report that considered revoking the JCPOA, decided against it, but also stressed that there was a need to "address ambiguities" in the deal. Interesting stuff.  

https://csis-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/publication/170313_Hicks_DeterringIran_Web.pdf?GwRM1vOIS4wvH67bb359MogE8MWl2DJg

Edited by rockaction

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4 minutes ago, rockaction said:

So on one side we have two large bipartisan organizations comprised of national security experts among many, many others. And on the other side we have an opinion piece by the genius responsible for this and many similar piles of vomit.

Whom to trust?  It's a tough one!

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6 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Hey, do me favor?  Maybe start posting articles by journalists and not opinion pieces from Newsweek?

Yes, that's what I'll do just for you, Henry. I remember that this was being reported on back in 2016 by actual journalists. You didn't address the content of soil testing though. If I'm not understanding the agreement, perhaps this was just made up out of thin air by this guy. 

Edited by rockaction

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Whatever you think about the deal itself, we can't be trusted to abide by our word anymore. Trump saw this as something Obama did, not something the United States agreed to. He doesn't think in terms of governance or policy and just backing out of agreements willy nilly because you don't like them is stupid. 

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