timschochet

I worry too much. The Democrats are going to win bigly in November.

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7 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

How soon they forget. Where would Willy Clinton's transgressions appear in a ranked list of Donald's?

Wouldn't crack the Top 500. 

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5 minutes ago, packersfan said:

Wouldn't crack the Top 500. 

Having Foster killed would be up there  pretty high though. 

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1 minute ago, NREC34 said:

Having Foster killed would be up there  pretty high though. 

True and never forget Michelle Obama murdered Joan Rivers so we can't let Obama off scott free here.

 

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53 minutes ago, timschochet said:

In terms of 2020: I wold prefer a moderate to a progressive, but that distinction is less important than the main attribute our candidate needs to have: maturity. We need a grownup. Doesn’t have to be old, but does have to have an aura of responsibility, dignity, and competence. The main underlying winning message in 2020 should be, IMO: tired of all the drama? 

Frankly, I'm not really sure America is tired of the drama.  Just look at Twitter, every news channel, every news website, whatever.  It's political drama 24/7, and people still eat it up.

The Democrats trotted out 2 grownups last election, and the Republicans ran out a bunch of their own, and they all got their asses handed to em (yes, Hillary won the popular vote, she still lost overall).  Running grownups doesn't mean anything...many Americans seemingly don't really care if someone's a grown-up.  So long as Trump continues to connect with a major subset of voters, and he's still doing so, it's not easy to topple him.

Unemployment numbers came out this morning.....down to 3.9%.  Trump controlled the jobs narrative all 2016 election season and ultimately it helped carry him to victory.  We can debate whether any Trump policies are actually helping anything here, and I think there's a legitimate concern that these tax cuts will have long-lasting negative effects, but it's not like the economy has tanked since he's taken office.  The Dow is up, unemployment is down.  That's the kind of thing the GOP is going to try to carry (if they're smart, at least) to victories this fall.

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5 minutes ago, Steve Tasker said:

Frankly, I'm not really sure America is tired of the drama.  Just look at Twitter, every news channel, every news website, whatever.  It's political drama 24/7, and people still eat it up.

The Democrats trotted out 2 grownups last election, and the Republicans ran out a bunch of their own, and they all got their asses handed to em (yes, Hillary won the popular vote, she still lost overall).  Running grownups doesn't mean anything...many Americans seemingly don't really care if someone's a grown-up.  So long as Trump continues to connect with a major subset of voters, and he's still doing so, it's not easy to topple him.

Unemployment numbers came out this morning.....down to 3.9%.  Trump controlled the jobs narrative all 2016 election season and ultimately it helped carry him to victory.  We can debate whether any Trump policies are actually helping anything here, and I think there's a legitimate concern that these tax cuts will have long-lasting negative effects, but it's not like the economy has tanked since he's taken office.  The Dow is up, unemployment is down.  That's the kind of thing the GOP is going to try to carry (if they're smart, at least) to victories this fall.

To your first point, even though the ratings for news is at an all time high, that doesn’t represent most of the public. Most of them still aren’t watching too much of it, and I think they get sick of hearing about it. 

But your second point about the economy is important. Richard Nixon was extremely unpopular during his first term, but he won his second term in a landslide, mostly due to a short lived economic upturn. So we’ll have to see how things look in 2020. 

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31 minutes ago, quickhands said:

Well they got clinton for lying under oath.   In case you forget he lost his law licence.  Generally, a big deal.    Banging a 20 something intern in the oval office.  Vs allegedly  banging a porn star in your hotel 12 years before being elected.

Can i get a top five of trumps so i rank them.

FYP

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the biggest problem for the Democrats is what are they for?  they have no platform...yes, they want to help immigrants and they don't like Trump but what are they for?  how are they going to help make peoples lives better besides being an alternative to the corrupted Republicans...

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22 minutes ago, Banger said:

the biggest problem for the Democrats is what are they for?  they have no platform...yes, they want to help immigrants and they don't like Trump but what are they for?  how are they going to help make peoples lives better besides being an alternative to the corrupted Republicans...

Sigh.

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

I’m not 100% sure about your specific proposal, but of course the Democrats should keep talking health care. The Republicans’ schizophrenic position on this issue is completely untenable, and the polls show the public is firmly supportive of more Obamacare, not less. Democrats should be pounding this issue, and infrastructure, and the disastrous tax bill, if they do they’ll get their wave. 

One of the reasons Trump got elected is because Obama lied about his health care plan and many people got booted out of the insurance plan they liked into a more expensive inferior health care plan.  It would be a huge mistake for Democrats to run on health care.  It would also be a huge mistake to run on raising taxes, just like it is for Republicans to run on reducing entitlements.   People don't want stuff taken away from them.  

The more I think about it the only thing Democrats have is the anti-Trump message and that is why the media is going all hate fest on Trump ignoring the record low unemployment for women, Hispanics,  and blacks.  They can't run on the issues so attacking Trump is their best chance.

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34 minutes ago, Banger said:

the biggest problem for the Democrats is what are they for?  they have no platform...yes, they want to help immigrants and they don't like Trump but what are they for?  how are they going to help make peoples lives better besides being an alternative to the corrupted Republicans...

Exactly, they have nothing but to bash Trump, just like this board.

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Posted (edited)

2 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Exactly, they have nothing but to bash Trump, just like this board.

the Trump bashing is completely justified...he's a crook, a horrible person, president, but that doesn't excuse the Dems for standing for something (besides immigration)...they need to have an economic policy that doesn't rely on handouts...they need to move to the middle.  The libs on the far left aren't going anywhere 

Edited by Banger

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23 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

One of the reasons Trump got elected is because Obama lied about his health care plan and many people got booted out of the insurance plan they liked into a more expensive inferior health care plan.  It would be a huge mistake for Democrats to run on health care.  It would also be a huge mistake to run on raising taxes, just like it is for Republicans to run on reducing entitlements.   People don't want stuff taken away from them.  

The more I think about it the only thing Democrats have is the anti-Trump message and that is why the media is going all hate fest on Trump ignoring the record low unemployment for women, Hispanics,  and blacks.  They can't run on the issues so attacking Trump is their best chance.

I am going to go out on a limb and say you haven't been out to see the current sentiment in this country around Obamacare?  Have you seen the approval numbers recently?

I think it was a crap approach, but there's no question a majority like the results.  They don't want it taken away from them and as it gets more and more expensive as this admin guts the funding mechanisms, there is plenty of room to run on actual health care and not simply expanding health insurance.

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, The Commish said:

I am going to go out on a limb and say you haven't been out to see the current sentiment in this country around Obamacare?  Have you seen the approval numbers recently?
 

Are these the same polls that had Hillary beating Trump?

 

Edited by Don't Noonan

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1 minute ago, Don't Noonan said:

Are these the same polls that had Hillary beating Trump?

 

No...why do you ask?

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1 minute ago, The Commish said:

No...why do you ask?

Just busting your balls as that is your go to phrase.  In all seriousness I don't believe either party has a great solution for health care.

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1 minute ago, Don't Noonan said:

Just busting your balls as that is your go to phrase.  In all seriousness I don't believe either party has a great solution for health care.

When appropriate it makes sense.  :shrug: 

Here not so much....polling about politicians <> polling about policy popularity.

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17 minutes ago, the rover said:

The only question is how they are going to do it.  Cav may represent a good example of it.

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17 hours ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Careful, to some this will sound hysterical.

well that's what happens when the sitting President steps down ... the VP becomes POTUS right ?

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Posted (edited)

17 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

:unsure:

Just because you personally really, really want Trump to have colluded with Russia doesn't mean it happend. Hth.

Edited by Weebs210
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11 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

Just because you personally really, really want Trump to have colluded with Russia doesn't mean it happend. Hth.

The emoji was a reference to saying that Trump wouldn't go down on Stormy Daniels.  Probably a little too subtle, Maurile made a similar joke right after me and people seemed to get it.  Have a good weekend.

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23 hours ago, timschochet said:

 

Impeachment This one should be an easy slam dunk for Democrats. All they have to do is say they support the Mueller investigation and that, once it’s been concluded, they will decide what to do based on his findings, etc. And then move on to other issues. Instead, several candidates are pledging impeachment in order to please the base. The public doesn’t want to hear about this. Most of them don’t care about this issue. There is some evidence that the focus on it might even increase some support for Trump. 

I agree with your assessment that the Democrats should just say that they support Mueller.   Democrats should focus on the big prize.....winning the presidency in 2020.  I am afraid that Democrats will waste a new House majority with a symbolic vote to impeach Trump, which he will never get convicted in the Senate...unless Mueller actually finds something really big...which is getting less likely.   Democrats should not waste political capital on trying to impeach Trump if they can't see it all the way though.

Problem is about 70% of Democrats support impeaching Trump.   Anything short of going forward with impeachment will be a tough sell with the Democratic base....especially the far left wing of it.

 

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3 minutes ago, fightingillini said:

 

Problem is about 70% of Democrats support impeaching Trump.   Anything short of going forward with impeachment will be a tough sell with the Democratic base....especially the far left wing of it.

 

This is the problem. 

My mind keeps going back to 1972. Going into the year, Nixon was unpopular. The war in Vietnam was unpopular. But the public was still unsure what the best way was to end the war. The base of the Democratic Party forced the party to nominate a leftist whose main platform was to leave Vietnam immediately. The result was Nixon won in a blowout. (Ironically Nixon pulled out of Vietnam a few months later.) 

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there's nothing to impeach at this point...you have to wait and see what the results of the investigation are and react appropriately.  You don't want to start impeaching because the president is a dip#### racist liar.  

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I hope the Democrats blow this.  As long as I get to define "this", and pick when Democrats I want.

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32 minutes ago, Banger said:

there's nothing to impeach at this point...you have to wait and see what the results of the investigation are and react appropriately.  You don't want to start impeaching because the president is a dip#### racist liar.  

ha...good to see Schiff say essentially the same thing...

 

Adam Schiff‏Verified account @RepAdamSchiff

Donald Trump is out championing the idea of his own impeachment to rally his supporters — let him. Democrats should keep their focus on the economy and a return to decency. Let the investigations run their course before reaching any conclusion.

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I really like the "hey, Don is the only one talking about his impeachment" meme. Let him keep ranting on about it for at least another six months, then we'll see if the November elections give him something to really be worried about.

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1 hour ago, Banger said:

You don't want to start impeaching because the president is a dip#### racist liar.  

You don’t?

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10 hours ago, packersfan said:

True and never forget Michelle Obama murdered Joan Rivers so we can't let Obama off scott free here.

 

If we can’t blame Melania for Donald we definitely can’t hold Barack responsible for Michelle’s murderous rampage. 

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3 hours ago, Banger said:

there's nothing to impeach at this point...you have to wait and see what the results of the investigation are and react appropriately.  You don't want to start impeaching because the president is a dip#### racist liar.  

I think I remember a post from MT a while back about how Trump's pardon of Joe Arpaio should be an offense that rises to impeachable.

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5 hours ago, Banger said:

ha...good to see Schiff say essentially the same thing...

 

Adam Schiff‏Verified account @RepAdamSchiff

Donald Trump is out championing the idea of his own impeachment to rally his supporters — let him. Democrats should keep their focus on the economy and a return to decency. Let the investigations run their course before reaching any conclusion.

Lol @ keep the focus on the economy.  The democrats have been “Russia Russia 24/7” for a year and a half.  

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1 minute ago, shader said:

Lol @ keep the focus on the economy.  The democrats have been “Russia Russia 24/7” for a year and a half.  

Mueller, FBI, and Justice Department - not democrats.

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On 5/3/2018 at 2:54 PM, Don't Noonan said:

Nothing on Trump though, which is what the public cares about in regards to the investigation and election

Having a dumb electorate doesn’t mean they are right 

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3 minutes ago, mr roboto said:

Having a dumb electorate doesn’t mean they are right 

True, Obama was elected twice

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4 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

True, Obama was elected twice

Yeah he’s a real dummy. 

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3 hours ago, Dedfin said:
7 hours ago, Banger said:

there's nothing to impeach at this point...you have to wait and see what the results of the investigation are and react appropriately.  You don't want to start impeaching because the president is a dip#### racist liar.  

I think I remember a post from MT a while back about how Trump's pardon of Joe Arpaio should be an offense that rises to impeachable

Emoulments clause too

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1 hour ago, Don't Noonan said:

True, Obama was elected twice

:reported:

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On 5/3/2018 at 2:10 PM, timschochet said:

As I see it, the Democrats have 3 problems which may prevent them winning in both 2018 and 2020 (and lets define this: a win in 2018 means taking back the House and maybe the Senate. Any result short of taking back the House is a loss. A win in 2020 means beating Trump.) These are in no particular order: 

Nancy Pelosi She should have announced months ago that she was stepping down from leadership as it was time for new blood. She refused to do so and even said “I’m not going anywhere.” She’s easy fodder for Republicans to energize against. They no longer have Hillary or Obama, but Nancy is the next best thing. 

Impeachment This one should be an easy slam dunk for Democrats. All they have to do is say they support the Mueller investigation and that, once it’s been concluded, they will decide what to do based on his findings, etc. And then move on to other issues. Instead, several candidates are pledging impeachment in order to please the base. The public doesn’t want to hear about this. Most of them don’t care about this issue. There is some evidence that the focus on it might even increase some support for Trump. 

Tax Bill, Health Care, Infrastructure. Focus, dammit! Impeachment, gun control, racism, metoo, free trade, climate change, immigration, foreign policy, these are all important issues but they’re not what the majority of the public really care about when they go to the voting booth. They don’t like the tax bill. They don’t like Republican changes to Obamacare. They want the nation’s roads, highways, water systems fixed. These are the issues Democrats can and should win on, because their ideas are better than the Republicans and a million times better than Trump’s. But they need to FOCUS. 

There’s a clear path to victory here if they take it. I’m worried that they won’t. 

The flaw in your argument is you think because one side is crazy, the other side is acceptable (or that you want them to win). Both sides are bad.

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35 minutes ago, cubd8 said:

The flaw in your argument is you think because one side is crazy, the other side is acceptable (or that you want them to win). Both sides are bad.

I prefer the Democrats because I agree with them on a majority of issues, and disagree with the Republicans (currently). I’ve never been a fan of the “both sides are bad” mantra; almost always I have preferred one side to the other. 

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