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timschochet

I worry too much. Update: Trump got thumped

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11 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

Just because you personally really, really want Trump to have colluded with Russia doesn't mean it happend. Hth.

The emoji was a reference to saying that Trump wouldn't go down on Stormy Daniels.  Probably a little too subtle, Maurile made a similar joke right after me and people seemed to get it.  Have a good weekend.

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23 hours ago, timschochet said:

 

Impeachment This one should be an easy slam dunk for Democrats. All they have to do is say they support the Mueller investigation and that, once it’s been concluded, they will decide what to do based on his findings, etc. And then move on to other issues. Instead, several candidates are pledging impeachment in order to please the base. The public doesn’t want to hear about this. Most of them don’t care about this issue. There is some evidence that the focus on it might even increase some support for Trump. 

I agree with your assessment that the Democrats should just say that they support Mueller.   Democrats should focus on the big prize.....winning the presidency in 2020.  I am afraid that Democrats will waste a new House majority with a symbolic vote to impeach Trump, which he will never get convicted in the Senate...unless Mueller actually finds something really big...which is getting less likely.   Democrats should not waste political capital on trying to impeach Trump if they can't see it all the way though.

Problem is about 70% of Democrats support impeaching Trump.   Anything short of going forward with impeachment will be a tough sell with the Democratic base....especially the far left wing of it.

 

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3 minutes ago, fightingillini said:

 

Problem is about 70% of Democrats support impeaching Trump.   Anything short of going forward with impeachment will be a tough sell with the Democratic base....especially the far left wing of it.

 

This is the problem. 

My mind keeps going back to 1972. Going into the year, Nixon was unpopular. The war in Vietnam was unpopular. But the public was still unsure what the best way was to end the war. The base of the Democratic Party forced the party to nominate a leftist whose main platform was to leave Vietnam immediately. The result was Nixon won in a blowout. (Ironically Nixon pulled out of Vietnam a few months later.) 

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there's nothing to impeach at this point...you have to wait and see what the results of the investigation are and react appropriately.  You don't want to start impeaching because the president is a dip#### racist liar.  

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I hope the Democrats blow this.  As long as I get to define "this", and pick when Democrats I want.

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32 minutes ago, Banger said:

there's nothing to impeach at this point...you have to wait and see what the results of the investigation are and react appropriately.  You don't want to start impeaching because the president is a dip#### racist liar.  

ha...good to see Schiff say essentially the same thing...

 

Adam Schiff‏Verified account @RepAdamSchiff

Donald Trump is out championing the idea of his own impeachment to rally his supporters — let him. Democrats should keep their focus on the economy and a return to decency. Let the investigations run their course before reaching any conclusion.

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I really like the "hey, Don is the only one talking about his impeachment" meme. Let him keep ranting on about it for at least another six months, then we'll see if the November elections give him something to really be worried about.

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10 hours ago, packersfan said:

True and never forget Michelle Obama murdered Joan Rivers so we can't let Obama off scott free here.

 

If we can’t blame Melania for Donald we definitely can’t hold Barack responsible for Michelle’s murderous rampage. 

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3 hours ago, Banger said:

there's nothing to impeach at this point...you have to wait and see what the results of the investigation are and react appropriately.  You don't want to start impeaching because the president is a dip#### racist liar.  

I think I remember a post from MT a while back about how Trump's pardon of Joe Arpaio should be an offense that rises to impeachable.

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5 hours ago, Banger said:

ha...good to see Schiff say essentially the same thing...

 

Adam Schiff‏Verified account @RepAdamSchiff

Donald Trump is out championing the idea of his own impeachment to rally his supporters — let him. Democrats should keep their focus on the economy and a return to decency. Let the investigations run their course before reaching any conclusion.

Lol @ keep the focus on the economy.  The democrats have been “Russia Russia 24/7” for a year and a half.  

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1 minute ago, shader said:

Lol @ keep the focus on the economy.  The democrats have been “Russia Russia 24/7” for a year and a half.  

Mueller, FBI, and Justice Department - not democrats.

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On 5/3/2018 at 2:54 PM, Don't Noonan said:

Nothing on Trump though, which is what the public cares about in regards to the investigation and election

Having a dumb electorate doesn’t mean they are right 

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4 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

True, Obama was elected twice

Yeah he’s a real dummy. 

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3 hours ago, Dedfin said:
7 hours ago, Banger said:

there's nothing to impeach at this point...you have to wait and see what the results of the investigation are and react appropriately.  You don't want to start impeaching because the president is a dip#### racist liar.  

I think I remember a post from MT a while back about how Trump's pardon of Joe Arpaio should be an offense that rises to impeachable

Emoulments clause too

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On 5/3/2018 at 2:10 PM, timschochet said:

As I see it, the Democrats have 3 problems which may prevent them winning in both 2018 and 2020 (and lets define this: a win in 2018 means taking back the House and maybe the Senate. Any result short of taking back the House is a loss. A win in 2020 means beating Trump.) These are in no particular order: 

Nancy Pelosi She should have announced months ago that she was stepping down from leadership as it was time for new blood. She refused to do so and even said “I’m not going anywhere.” She’s easy fodder for Republicans to energize against. They no longer have Hillary or Obama, but Nancy is the next best thing. 

Impeachment This one should be an easy slam dunk for Democrats. All they have to do is say they support the Mueller investigation and that, once it’s been concluded, they will decide what to do based on his findings, etc. And then move on to other issues. Instead, several candidates are pledging impeachment in order to please the base. The public doesn’t want to hear about this. Most of them don’t care about this issue. There is some evidence that the focus on it might even increase some support for Trump. 

Tax Bill, Health Care, Infrastructure. Focus, dammit! Impeachment, gun control, racism, metoo, free trade, climate change, immigration, foreign policy, these are all important issues but they’re not what the majority of the public really care about when they go to the voting booth. They don’t like the tax bill. They don’t like Republican changes to Obamacare. They want the nation’s roads, highways, water systems fixed. These are the issues Democrats can and should win on, because their ideas are better than the Republicans and a million times better than Trump’s. But they need to FOCUS. 

There’s a clear path to victory here if they take it. I’m worried that they won’t. 

The flaw in your argument is you think because one side is crazy, the other side is acceptable (or that you want them to win). Both sides are bad.

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35 minutes ago, cubd8 said:

The flaw in your argument is you think because one side is crazy, the other side is acceptable (or that you want them to win). Both sides are bad.

I prefer the Democrats because I agree with them on a majority of issues, and disagree with the Republicans (currently). I’ve never been a fan of the “both sides are bad” mantra; almost always I have preferred one side to the other. 

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On 5/4/2018 at 10:25 AM, Don't Noonan said:

Exactly, they have nothing but to bash Trump, just like this board.

It didn't work in 2016 and won't work in 2020 but really not sure if some Dems want Trump to lose.  This way they can't be blamed for doing nothing by the people when they have power again and they keep their coprorate donors happy.

Edited by IC FBGCav
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23 hours ago, shader said:

Lol @ keep the focus on the economy.  The democrats have been “Russia Russia 24/7” for a year and a half.  

Of the many special elections we've had filling vacant House and Senate seats, or regular elections at the state level filling state legislatures, has the primary campaign message of the Democrats in those races been "Russia Russia 24/7"?  Shouldn't be hard to find a few examples of it if your statement is true. 

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21 hours ago, cubd8 said:

The flaw in your argument is you think because one side is crazy, the other side is acceptable (or that you want them to win). Both sides are bad.

Both sides may be bad but Republicans are WAY worse right now. They have far more crazies running the show - led by the leader of their party.

That doesn't mean its always been like that or it always will be. But its definitely true right now.

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12 hours ago, IC FBGCav said:

It didn't work in 2016 and won't work in 2020 but really not sure if some Dems want Trump to lose.  This way they can't be blamed for doing nothing by the people when they have power again and they keep their coprorate donors happy.

The media is Trump 24/7 but when I see politicians tweet, I see a lot more topics than Trump: health care, BIG, immigration reform, education, etc.

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13 hours ago, IC FBGCav said:

It didn't work in 2016 and won't work in 2020 but really not sure if some Dems want Trump to lose.  This way they can't be blamed for doing nothing by the people when they have power again and they keep their coprorate donors happy.

Okay Cav.  Say you were elected Chair of the DNC.  What are your next moves?

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40 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

The media is Trump 24/7 but when I see politicians tweet, I see a lot more topics than Trump: health care, BIG, immigration reform, education, etc.

If the goal of the "liberal media" is to get Trump out of office, they're doing it wrong.  Way wrong.

Instead of using their platform to outline and push the legal reasons why Trump might be unfit for office, they spend 90% of their time making the same 5 jokes about his hair, his weight, what they think his penis looks like, etc.

Focusing on the moral aspect (rather than the legal aspect: the possibility that it was done with campaign funds) of him banging some skank porn star and paying her off not to talk about makes less than zero sense. But it allows them to make more jokes about Donald Trump having sex, so they just keep on doing it. If catching Trump on tape talking about grabbing women by the ##### didn't cause the necessary moral outrage to bring him down, why do they think this will?

The answer is they probably dont. But talking about it sure does drive ratings. How many "opposition" comedians, late night hosts and writers stand to lose their jobs (or at the very least, take a major dip in ratings) if they dont have Trump to beat on 2 years from now? And to a lesser extent, the same holds true to serious journalists like Maddow.

 

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Of course, all the worries I’ve stated in this thread may be for naught if the Republicans keep handing Democrats gifts like this: Blankenship is surging in West Virginia: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/05/05/blankenship-polls-west-virginia-senate-primary-570752

The Dems can’t blow it if Republicans blow it first. :thumbup:

Edited by timschochet

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18 minutes ago, TLEF316 said:

If the goal of the "liberal media" is to get Trump out of office, they're doing it wrong.  Way wrong.

Instead of using their platform to outline and push the legal reasons why Trump might be unfit for office, they spend 90% of their time making the same 5 jokes about his hair, his weight, what they think his penis looks like, etc.

Focusing on the moral aspect (rather than the legal aspect: the possibility that it was done with campaign funds) of him banging some skank porn star and paying her off not to talk about makes less than zero sense. But it allows them to make more jokes about Donald Trump having sex, so they just keep on doing it. If catching Trump on tape talking about grabbing women by the ##### didn't cause the necessary moral outrage to bring him down, why do they think this will?

The answer is they probably dont. But talking about it sure does drive ratings. How many "opposition" comedians, late night hosts and writers stand to lose their jobs (or at the very least, take a major dip in ratings) if they dont have Trump to beat on 2 years from now? And to a lesser extent, the same holds true to serious journalists like Maddow.

 

A. The goal of the mainstream media is to make money for their shareholders.

Trump =ratings. 

B. I see CNN and MSNBC and the big print media discussing the legal and political ramifications of Trump all the time. They are constantly talking about ways Trump may have bent or broken laws, be compromised in some way, etc. 

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17 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Of course, all the worries I’ve stated in this thread may be for naught if the Republicans keep handing Democrats gifts like this: Blankenship is surging in West Virginia: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/05/05/blankenship-polls-west-virginia-senate-primary-570752

The Dems can’t blow it if Republicans blow it first. :thumbup:

I hope he wins so bad. I want to see his follow-up.

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On 5/3/2018 at 1:24 PM, Maurile Tremblay said:

People, including federal legislators, should try to do their jobs competently without regard to how it will be perceived.

Let me put this a bit differently.

One of my current criticisms of Republican legislators (e.g., on the HPSCI) is that they are refusing to hold Trump accountable for anything due to their perception that taking a stand against Trump will be bad for them politically.

If Democrats refuse to impeach Trump (or refuse to publicly support impeachment) due to their perception that it will be bad for them politically, how is that any better? It’s the exact same thing.

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On 5/6/2018 at 9:07 AM, TLEF316 said:

If the goal of the "liberal media" is to get Trump out of office, they're doing it wrong.  Way wrong.

Instead of using their platform to outline and push the legal reasons why Trump might be unfit for office, they spend 90% of their time making the same 5 jokes about his hair, his weight, what they think his penis looks like, etc.

Focusing on the moral aspect (rather than the legal aspect: the possibility that it was done with campaign funds) of him banging some skank porn star and paying her off not to talk about makes less than zero sense. But it allows them to make more jokes about Donald Trump having sex, so they just keep on doing it. If catching Trump on tape talking about grabbing women by the ##### didn't cause the necessary moral outrage to bring him down, why do they think this will?

The answer is they probably dont. But talking about it sure does drive ratings. How many "opposition" comedians, late night hosts and writers stand to lose their jobs (or at the very least, take a major dip in ratings) if they dont have Trump to beat on 2 years from now? And to a lesser extent, the same holds true to serious journalists like Maddow.

 

You are definitely watching different news stations than I am.

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I think the DNC started way too fast and heavy with information.    If the DNC wanted to use all of this current Trump scandal information they should have waited closer to the Presidential Election.  People become numb after awhile and will stop to care if Trump raped pornstars or playboy bunnies.  I seriously believe that Trump could kill someone and maintain most of his base. 

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On 5/6/2018 at 7:07 AM, TLEF316 said:

If the goal of the "liberal media" is to get Trump out of office, they're doing it wrong.  Way wrong.

Instead of using their platform to outline and push the legal reasons why Trump might be unfit for office, they spend 90% of their time making the same 5 jokes about his hair, his weight, what they think his penis looks like, etc.

Focusing on the moral aspect (rather than the legal aspect: the possibility that it was done with campaign funds) of him banging some skank porn star and paying her off not to talk about makes less than zero sense. But it allows them to make more jokes about Donald Trump having sex, so they just keep on doing it. If catching Trump on tape talking about grabbing women by the ##### didn't cause the necessary moral outrage to bring him down, why do they think this will?

The answer is they probably dont. But talking about it sure does drive ratings. How many "opposition" comedians, late night hosts and writers stand to lose their jobs (or at the very least, take a major dip in ratings) if they dont have Trump to beat on 2 years from now? And to a lesser extent, the same holds true to serious journalists like Maddow.

 

Serious journalists like Maddow!  :lmao:

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5 minutes ago, squistion said:

:yes:

Rantt Media‏ @RanttMedia May 18

Trump has:

Demonized immigrants

Threatened the rule of law

Refused to advocate for #GunControl

Attacked the rights of women to control their own bodies

What better message could Democrats hope for than running in opposition to such disastrous stances?

Running for something instead. 

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The general strategy being used by the democrats is to keep up relentless attacks on Trump until it either works or the people get sick of it.  If the people get sick of it, they will plan to offer some outsider candidate that pledges to not talk about Trump at all and move forward in a completely new direction in 2021.  Then you would plan on a relative unknown winning the democratic nomination in 2020, probably some calm, mild-mannered governor somewhere who is completely unconnected to Trump.  Sort of like after years of Nixon scandal, the public elected a peanut farmer from Georgia totally unconnected to the scandal. The problem is there are only 16 democrat governors compared to 33 republican governors, so the pool is shallow.  They'd have to dip into the pool of US senators.  But that's not to say Joe Biden couldn't be the nominee either, its just a roadmap.

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27 minutes ago, Riversco said:

The general strategy being used by the democrats is to keep up relentless attacks on Trump until it either works or the people get sick of it.  If the people get sick of it, they will plan to offer some outsider candidate that pledges to not talk about Trump at all and move forward in a completely new direction in 2021.  Then you would plan on a relative unknown winning the democratic nomination in 2020, probably some calm, mild-mannered governor somewhere who is completely unconnected to Trump.  Sort of like after years of Nixon scandal, the public elected a peanut farmer from Georgia totally unconnected to the scandal. The problem is there are only 16 democrat governors compared to 33 republican governors, so the pool is shallow.  They'd have to dip into the pool of US senators.  But that's not to say Joe Biden couldn't be the nominee either, its just a roadmap.

Wouldn’t our civil war involving Russia and the Chinese happen long before then so it’s a mute point?

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I am an independent and we should be a big part of the dems plans if they want to win the next go around. In the last presidential election, i purposely threw my vote away because I couldn't in good faith, vote for either of the primary candidates and I'm still proud of that today. I did vote for Obama in the 2 elections prior to this one. You lost my vote this time because you ran a candidate with as many skeletons as Trump. Bernie wasn't the answer either because he's too far left. Pelosi is bad for your side as well. Find another younger, newer candidate that is willing to reach across the isle to get things done and you will win me back.

As far as impeachment, Trump is an idiot but you don't have that smoking gun in the Russian investigation yet. If or when you do, please, get him out of there. No one really cares about the Stormy Daniels story. It's tired and old. We knew he was a dirtbag before he was elected.

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 They've had some wins and candidates polling well by distancing themselves from Pelosi and not focusing on Trump -- lets hope that keeps up

 

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2 minutes ago, JIslander said:

 and not focusing on Trump 

 

This is true and it’s wise of them not to mention Trump. But even so, Trump is somewhere on the mind of every person voting. And that will be true even more so in November. Other than possibly Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt (two men whom he does NOT resemble in any other way) Donald Trump is easily the most omnipresent figure in American political history. 

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1 hour ago, UncleZen said:

I am an independent and we should be a big part of the dems plans if they want to win the next go around. In the last presidential election, i purposely threw my vote away because I couldn't in good faith, vote for either of the primary candidates and I'm still proud of that today. I did vote for Obama in the 2 elections prior to this one. You lost my vote this time because you ran a candidate with as many skeletons as Trump. Bernie wasn't the answer either because he's too far left. Pelosi is bad for your side as well. Find another younger, newer candidate that is willing to reach across the isle to get things done and you will win me back.

As far as impeachment, Trump is an idiot but you don't have that smoking gun in the Russian investigation yet. If or when you do, please, get him out of there. No one really cares about the Stormy Daniels story. It's tired and old. We knew he was a dirtbag before he was elected.

One of the best posts in this entire thread.

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8 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

Running for something instead. 

but not everything....they need to have learned this lesson.

Edited by The Commish

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6 hours ago, timschochet said:

This is true and it’s wise of them not to mention Trump. But even so, Trump is somewhere on the mind of every person voting. And that will be true even more so in November. Other than possibly Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt (two men whom he does NOT resemble in any other way) Donald Trump is easily the most omnipresent figure in American political history. 

Eh, I remember democrats going absolutely crazy over George W. Bush and later here in California they went absolutely crazy over Arnold Schwarzenegger.  In both cases, the second they were out of office, they were utterly forgotten.  And in Arnold's case he just went right back to movies like nothing happened.  I'm finding it hard to believe the democrats going crazy over Trump is anything different in their minds.

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7 hours ago, UncleZen said:

I am an independent and we should be a big part of the dems plans if they want to win the next go around. In the last presidential election, i purposely threw my vote away because I couldn't in good faith, vote for either of the primary candidates and I'm still proud of that today. I did vote for Obama in the 2 elections prior to this one. You lost my vote this time because you ran a candidate with as many skeletons as Trump. Bernie wasn't the answer either because he's too far left. Pelosi is bad for your side as well. Find another younger, newer candidate that is willing to reach across the isle to get things done and you will win me back.

As far as impeachment, Trump is an idiot but you don't have that smoking gun in the Russian investigation yet. If or when you do, please, get him out of there. No one really cares about the Stormy Daniels story. It's tired and old. We knew he was a dirtbag before he was elected.

:goodposting: 

I could have written this post pretty much to a 't' (although I voted for Obama the first time, but not the second). 

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So the Republicans entire platform was to bash Obama, and they own everything.  But it won't work the other way around?  WHy not? 

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8 hours ago, UncleZen said:

I am an independent and we should be a big part of the dems plans if they want to win the next go around. In the last presidential election, i purposely threw my vote away because I couldn't in good faith, vote for either of the primary candidates and I'm still proud of that today. I did vote for Obama in the 2 elections prior to this one. You lost my vote this time because you ran a candidate with as many skeletons as Trump. Bernie wasn't the answer either because he's too far left. Pelosi is bad for your side as well. Find another younger, newer candidate that is willing to reach across the isle to get things done and you will win me back.

As far as impeachment, Trump is an idiot but you don't have that smoking gun in the Russian investigation yet. If or when you do, please, get him out of there. No one really cares about the Stormy Daniels story. It's tired and old. We knew he was a dirtbag before he was elected.

The Democrats “ran a candidate with as many skeletons as Trump”?   

Really?  

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It's shocking that GunZ would miss the overall point since it doesn't genuflect to the left's talking points, said no one ever. 

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31 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

It's shocking that GunZ would miss the overall point since it doesn't genuflect to the left's talking points, said no one ever. 

Dems shouldn’t waste any time trying to win over “independents” like UncleZen who think Trump and Hillary are equals. 

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1 hour ago, tommyGunZ said:

Dems shouldn’t waste any time trying to win over “independents” like UncleZen who think Trump and Hillary are equals. 

Kind of agree but I do think most of his other points are correct: we DO need younger people than Pelosi; I have written this before. We DO need people willing to work across the aisle. And his opinion about both the Russian scandal and Stormy Daniels is probably representative of most of America at this point. 

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