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John McCain (1 Viewer)

timschochet

Footballguy
He knows his time his short. He has told friends he doesn’t want Trump attending his funeral. Plus he regrets having selected Sarah Palin as his running mate in 2008. 

He should regret it. IMO, that one decision unleashed the Pandora’s Box Of Republican extremism that has so poisoned our politics in the last decade and led almost directly to Donald Trump. 

But we all make mistakes. McCain will go down as a flawed man but a  statesman, and of course a great American hero. 

 
I have to add that the vitriol against McCain on Trump supporter sites like Free Republic is as ugly as anything I’ve ever read in my life. “Why isn’t this turd dead already?” is probably the kindest quote I can repeat here. 

 
I am extremely conflicted when I think of McCain.  Time and time again I have tried to get behind him.  He's a true American hero, has had multiple times where he's spoken with clear rationality and truly seems focused on bring people together and making the right decision not the party one.  Then the very next day contradicts everything he said and votes straight down party lines.  The famous thumbs down vote recently is the only time I can remember him backing up his own dessenting voice.  

In 08 he had my vote then showed tremendously bad judgment in picking Palin....

To this day I still can't figure out where I land with him.   I really wish he had shown the courage of conviction for his own words....

 
I am extremely conflicted when I think of McCain.  Time and time again I have tried to get behind him.  He's a true American hero, has had multiple times where he's spoken with clear rationality and truly seems focused on bring people together and making the right decision not the party one.  Then the very next day contradicts everything he said and votes straight down party lines.  The famous thumbs down vote recently is the only time I can remember him backing up his own dessenting voice.  

In 08 he had my vote then showed tremendously bad judgment in picking Palin....

To this day I still can't figure out where I land with him.   I really wish he had shown the courage of conviction for his own words....
I think his actions as a naval pilot outweigh his errors in politics.  Not happy with McCain the politician, but overall I'm thankful that he served our country and as a package deal, I'm glad he is an American.

 
I think his actions as a naval pilot outweigh his errors in politics.  Not happy with McCain the politician, but overall I'm thankful that he served our country and as a package deal, I'm glad he is an American.
I absolutely agree with this.  

 
It’s important to remember that at the same time that he was being tortured, Jane Fonda went to Hanoi and declared that American POWs were war criminals and deserved to be executed. It’s really hard to forgive her for that. 
I thought I read that the Fonda story isn’t true. 

 
It’s important to remember that at the same time that he was being tortured, Jane Fonda went to Hanoi and declared that American POWs were war criminals and deserved to be executed. It’s really hard to forgive her for that. 
That's not exactly what Fonda said. She's a pretty crappy human being solely for the fact that she went to North Vietnam at all. There's no need to embellish the story.

 
That's not exactly what Fonda said. She's a pretty crappy human being solely for the fact that she went to North Vietnam at all. There's no need to embellish the story.
I just watched the 2nd to last episode of The Vietnam War and I heard her say it. But I’ll see if I can find the exact quote. 

 
I can’t find it right now. There was definitely a clip of her saying “these are war criminals and they should be executed.”

i had never heard her say that before. I knew of course about her visit and her pose in the AA gun, but this really surprised me. TBH I always was kind of a fan and thought the whole controversy was overblown. But this stunned me and McCain’s situation has brought it to the forefront of my mind. 

 
McCain is a prime example of what scumbag Republicans will do to you if you dare vote with your heart and brains instead of just telling the company line. This guy was a beloved member of the party. Toward the end, he started having a conscience and decided to do what he felt was best instead of what Fox News was pushing. And now the majority of Republicans hate his guts. Look no farther than this when asking the question, why don't these Republicans speak out about what a horrible person and president Trump is.

 
I can’t find it right now. There was definitely a clip of her saying “these are war criminals and they should be executed.”

i had never heard her say that before. I knew of course about her visit and her pose in the AA gun, but this really surprised me. TBH I always was kind of a fan and thought the whole controversy was overblown. But this stunned me and McCain’s situation has brought it to the forefront of my mind. 
She did say that U.S. soldiers who had committed war crimes should be tried according to international law, and executed if found guilty.

She wasn't saying that all the American POWs were war criminals, though.

 
Why do you punish yourself by going to those sites? It's seems to me that life would be happier for you if you abstained.
I've got no problem with Tim. I've got no problem with KC. Not saying Tim is a good man (I think he is). Not saying KC can't take a break from the nonsense (I think we all should sometimes).  That said: "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing." Thank you all for calling people on their BS. 

 
I dont' know. I thought the guy had a chance to be a real legend,and force in American Politics;......instead he was waaaay more Robert the Bruce than William Wallace.  Always seemed to cowtow to his Party masters.  

 
I've got no problem with Tim. I've got no problem with KC. Not saying Tim is a good man (I think he is). Not saying KC can't take a break from the nonsense (I think we all should sometimes).  That said: "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing." Thank you all for calling people on their BS. 
WTF??? 

I give Tim some advice and it's called nonsense? I think it's pretty obvious that Tim is, at the very least, anti-Republican at this point in time. Why someone would want to seek out the written drivel of far right forums seems pointless, and an exercise in futility. 

 
WTF??? 

I give Tim some advice and it's called nonsense? I think it's pretty obvious that Tim is, at the very least, anti-Republican at this point in time. Why someone would want to seek out the written drivel of far right forums seems pointless, and an exercise in futility. 
It is a bit masochistic I suppose. 

I read Free Republic because I think it’s a good indication of how the base of the Republican Party thinks. There’s always a lot of speculation about this, and much of it wrong; here you get the real deal. It is depressing though. 

 
It is a bit masochistic I suppose. 

I read Free Republic because I think it’s a good indication of how the base of the Republican Party thinks. There’s always a lot of speculation about this, and much of it wrong; here you get the real deal. It is depressing though. 
Contrary to popular belief, my post wasn't a slight at you. I don't know if anything would change your opinion of the Republican Party right now. Affirmation on a daily basis does nothing but erode your ability to focus your attention on more worthwhile things. 

 
She did say that U.S. soldiers who had committed war crimes should be tried according to international law, and executed if found guilty.

She wasn't saying that all the American POWs were war criminals, though.
Thank you. That seems accurate. 

Within the context of her visiting Hanoi while there were war criminals there, it’s pretty awful IMO. 

I think what Ilov80s was referring to was the urban legend that she cursed and betrayed some POWs while in Hanoi; that didn’t happen. 

 
Contrary to popular belief, my post wasn't a slight at you. I don't know if anything would change your opinion of the Republican Party right now. Affirmation on a daily basis does nothing but erode your ability to focus your attention on more worthwhile things. 
Quite simply: I will change my opinion of the Republican Party when they stand up and oppose Trump whenever he acts against the time honored principles of the Republican Party. 

 
I guess I don’t have any hard feelings with Jane but I wasn’t alive at the time so it’s probably easier for me to feel that way. Objectively, I agree with her that war criminals- even American ones/ should be punished severely. I am against the death penalty so it wouldn’t be an execution but life in prison is on the table. Also history has made it clear our actions as a country in SE Asia were terrible and our leaders were indeed lying to the public about it. They are much more worthy of scorn than Jane Fonda.

 
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Quite simply: I will change my opinion of the Republican Party when they stand up and oppose Trump whenever he acts against the time honored principles of the Republican Party. 
That's not happening any time soon. Take a break for a few years. Have a beer, take up a hobby, volunteer at a non profit. 

 
I've never been a fan of his politically, but he was a good guy who stood up for what he thought was right.  That's obviously way more important than disagreements over policy.  

 
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Why

That's not happening any time soon. Take a break for a few years. Have a beer, take up a hobby, volunteer at a non profit. 
 Why can't it happen anytime soon? Anybody besides me stunned when Trump was elected? Things can happen 'overnight'. 

 
Why

 Why can't it happen anytime soon? Anybody besides me stunned when Trump was elected? Things can happen 'overnight'. 
Because getting elected is easier than getting impeached. One day determined whether or not Trump was elected. How long do you think it would take to impeach him?

I guess he could die or resign. But, I'd give both less than a 1% chance. And then we are left with Pence as the President. 

 
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I don't think this is true at all (unless you mean "getting elected is easier than getting elected plus getting impeached").
Yes.

The process of impeachment is not one that would be taken lightly. And it doesn't remove Republicans from office, just Trump. 

 
Because getting elected is easier than getting impeached.
Getting impeached once you're elected is a much higher-probability event than getting elected in the first place. About 1/23 of our Presidents so far have been impeached. About 1/1000 of everyone who seriously considered running for President and actively took steps to further that goal have actually been elected. (You can quibble with the exact magnitude of the second number, but I don't think you can realistically claim that it is bigger than the first.)

One day determined whether or not Trump was elected. How long do you think it would take to impeach him?

I don't think the amount of time it takes is what's important, but for what it's worth, the vote to impeach would be measured in minutes while the vote to elect lasted a whole day.

I guess he could die or resign. But, I'd give both less than a 1% chance. And then we are left with Pence as the President.

Actuarial tables give a generic 71-year-old about a 1.7% chance of dying within a year, and about a 3.6% chance of dying within two years.

 
It's tough being a leader.  Constantly second-guessed, exponentially when you don't succeed.  It takes a really strong person to continue to push forward in spite of it all, and there are few folks in public life with as much strength as McCain.  

In my opinion, he chose the wrong path quite a few times, but even while disagreeing with him I always felt like he was doing what he felt was best for America.

 
Getting impeached once you're elected is a much higher-probability event than getting elected in the first place. About 1/23 of our Presidents so far have been impeached. About 1/1000 of everyone who seriously considered running for President and actively took steps to further that goal have actually been elected. (You can quibble with the exact magnitude of the second number, but I don't think you can realistically claim that it is bigger than the first.)

I don't think the amount of time it takes is what's important, but for what it's worth, the vote to impeach would be measured in minutes while the vote to elect lasted a whole day.

Actuarial tables give a generic 71-year-old about a 1.7% chance of dying within a year, and about a 3.6% chance of dying within two years.
Fair enough. 

You can't get impeached at all if you haven't been elected. So yes, there is that part of the equation. 

The argument can be made that it took Trump 509 days from the time he announced he was running for President until he was actually elected. Some would say the move to impeach Trump started almost immediately after the election. It's been 546 days and counting. 

 
I can’t find it right now. There was definitely a clip of her saying “these are war criminals and they should be executed.”

i had never heard her say that before. I knew of course about her visit and her pose in the AA gun, but this really surprised me. TBH I always was kind of a fan and thought the whole controversy was overblown. But this stunned me and McCain’s situation has brought it to the forefront of my mind. 
Jane at her finest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn7g2MMzBmM&list=RDQMZpn6CNmIVhU&start_radio=1

 
Sarah Palin is not responsible for what the Republican party is today.   Sarah Palin was a reflection of social conservative values at the time, which were previously catered to by Pat Buchanan long before Palin.  She did not create anything.   So certainly McCain by extension is not responsible for what we have today. 

Donald Trump has successfully shifted the balance and priorities of the Republican Party.   Free Republic is no more representative of the typical Republican than Democratic Underground speaks for the typical Democrat.  These generalizations are terrible.     

 
Sarah Palin is not responsible for what the Republican party is today.   Sarah Palin was a reflection of social conservative values at the time, which were previously catered to by Pat Buchanan long before Palin.  She did not create anything.   So certainly McCain by extension is not responsible for what we have today. 

Donald Trump has successfully shifted the balance and priorities of the Republican Party.   Free Republic is no more representative of the typical Republican than Democratic Underground speaks for the typical Democrat.  These generalizations are terrible.     
I think you’re overlooking the most conspicuous qualities of Sarah Palin and Pat Buchanan. Yes, they were both socially conservative, but so were a zillion other people — that wasn’t their distinguishing feature.

Buchanan was best known for his economic populism, including his anti-free-trade stance that was a salient departure from the party of Milton Friedman. And Palin was best known for her anti-intellectualism, which was a salient departure from the party of William F. Buckley and George Will.

The Republican Party is currently embracing both Buchanan’s and Palin’s offbeat quirks, which means that it’s moving away from its traditional principles.

(But I agree that McCain is not to blame for that.)

 
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I think you’re overlooking the most conspicuous qualities of Sarah Palin and Pat Buchanon. Yes, they were both socially conservative, but so were a zillion other people — that wasn’t their distinguishing feature.

Buchanon was best known for his economic populism, including his anti-free-trade stance that was a salient departure from the party of Milton Friedman. And Palin was best known for her anti-intellectualism, which was a salient departure from the party of William F. Buckley and George Will.

The Republican Party is currently embracing both Buchanon’s and Palin’s offbeat quirks, which means that it’s moving away from its traditional principles.
Sarah Palin had nothing on Buchanan when it came to attacking the ivory tower intellectualism.  

 
Sarah Palin had nothing on Buchanan when it came to attacking the ivory tower intellectualism.  
Buchanan was an intellectual. He got a master’s degree from the Ivy League. Unlike Palin or Trump, he was a policy wonk who served as an advisor to several Presidents. He didn’t just read magazines (“all of them” — Sarah Palin), he helped write them.

 
Many social conservatives couldn't identify with Pat Buchanan because he was highly educated, had a strict "family values" lifestyle, and didn't do drugs. Palin gave those people a spiritual leader.

 

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