Her lack of education did not shift the discussion. Palin brought no new ideas to the table.
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John McCain (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
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The only thing Palin did was get past the primaries. Buchanan always had the most ethusiastic following in the primaries and in fact did appeal to those social conservative. The ethusiasm for Buchanan was why someone like Palin was picked.
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Right, that’s the point. She helped shepherd the party away from being concerned with ideas.
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I don't buy that either. She articulated pretty much an identical arguements made by Pat. She was his ideological clone.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I am conflicted on Jane Fonda because on the one hand Barbarella, and on the other Hanoi Jane. That said, I think in sum I come down against her because of Bridget Fonda. I know she is only Jane's niece but there is blame aplenty to go around. Rational, no, but there it is.
As for McCain I believe he did the best he could living a life of service to his country as he had the light to see it.
As for McCain I believe he did the best he could living a life of service to his country as he had the light to see it.
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
McCain can be honored for what he did in his life - many great things, nobody can doubt it.
He should have stepped down months ago from his position, he's not capable of representing the people properly right now and I would question his mental state with all the man is going through. I'd think he needs to focus on himself and family .... he's done more for this country than most do, his name won't be forgotten
He should have stepped down months ago from his position, he's not capable of representing the people properly right now and I would question his mental state with all the man is going through. I'd think he needs to focus on himself and family .... he's done more for this country than most do, his name won't be forgotten
I haven't heard McCain say anything that made me think he didn't have all of his mental facilities.
red stripe
Footballguy
John McCain was the only R I considered voting for in my voting lifetime. I never once doubted his integrity or that he was doing what he thought was best for the country.
Alt-rights on my Facebook wall are wishing him death and smearing him this morning. Can't wait until these guys crawl back under their rocks.
Alt-rights on my Facebook wall are wishing him death and smearing him this morning. Can't wait until these guys crawl back under their rocks.
It's like conservatives keep trying to outdo their previous most disgusting behavior. This isn't an isolated case, either. I have seen and heard many people wishing him dead. This is an American hero who was the Republican candidate for President. And they want him dead because he dared to cast votes for what he thought was the good of the country rather than support a man who he doesn't agree with morally or politically. I keep thinking the GOP has hit rock bottom but they keep proving me wrong.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
How about when he gave this interview?
Sen. McCain Says Republicans Will Block All Court Nominations If Clinton Wins
How about six months earlier?
How about in December of 2017, when he pulled the rare double-flip-flop (the Triple Lindy of legislation), changing his tune about both "regular order" and deficits in one shot?
NREC34
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yeah and that’s extreme leftists on Twitter are also wishing him death. Further proof that it’s not linear but a circle and the extreme left and extreme right are the same.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Great American,lousy pol. Then after the odious stunt the Bush’s played on him he cozied up to them to do Mitt wrong.
great American, been to hell and back but I separate his life before politics and after
great American, been to hell and back but I separate his life before politics and after
Lousy politician who made it all the way to presidential candidate of your party. He's a great politician. The country desperately needs more like him. He wasn't beholden to a specific party. He was conservative, but voted with his conscience. Not many like him left. Which is why we're where we are.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I just don't get this at all. He is a war hero and deserves abundant praise for his lifetime of public service. But his "maverick" reputation and the notion that he acts with integrity is nonsense. He went along with the Obama-era McConnell obstructionism tactic- maybe the most harmful domestic policy of the last couple decades, our current environment of hyper-partisanship and division can be traced fairly easily to it - without a moment's hesitation. And there have been plenty of other moments when he's had a chance to rise above partisanship and stand up for what's important and has almost always failed to do so. That's why his "no" vote on repealing Obamacare was so noteworthy- it was incredibly unusual and unexpected when you look back at his Senate career. All hat, no cattle.
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red stripe
Footballguy
The Alt-right conspiracy machine is a much much bigger and scarier bloc than whatever passes for the "extreme left" in my opinion. I get that liberals aren't going to shed any alligator tears for the guy and I have had this argument before with some liberals. I don't discredit anyone for voting for DJT because they wanted smaller government, reforms, etc. I am thoroughly disgusted with the out and out lying and conspiracy theory peddling (Jon McCain blew up an aircraft carrier being one thing I saw yes today!) and this appears to me to be almost exclusive domain of the alt-right.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
While I'm on this kick of "respectful ranting," a few McCain-Trump connections worth noting. One, Sarah Palin clearly paved the way for Trumpism. Two, I don't think Trump gets elected if Garland had been seated on the Court before the election and as I said before McCain was 100% supportive of the Garland block. Three, McCain endorsed Trump at first and only pulled his endorsement after the Access Hollywood tapes. If you didn't know what kind of person Trump was before you heard that tape you have some serious issues judging character.
timschochet
Footballguy
This isn’t quite accurate. McCain endorsed Trump once he received the nomination. Even then what he said was “I’m voting for the Republican nominee.” Hardly a ringing endorsement; he never appeared with Trump, never spoke on his behalf (unlike his BFF Lindsay).
McCain, despite his maverick persona, has always been a “I’m loyal to the party” kind of guy. That in itself may be worthy of criticism, but it doesn’t make him a Trump supporter.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
At this moment in time, I mostly agree that the extreme right is more dangerous and more extreme if you will. However, that isn’t always the case. There’s also lots of scary shouting down of ideas on the far left that are pretty bad.red stripe said:
As for anti-McCain stuff, ofcourse far left will revel in the death of an opponent but for the right to turn on a lifelong member of their party, that’s incredible.
timschochet
Footballguy
I also suspect this is overblown. Despite what people claim, I’m very skeptical that voters go in to the booth thinking about the Supreme Court.
I think a lot of good decent Republicans voted for Trump because of tribalism, because of Hillary, out of ennui. It’s only afterward, embarrassed by their decision, that they looked around seeking justifications and found one in the Supreme Court. I just don’t think it was a big factor when they actually voted.
timschochet
Footballguy
I first noticed this after he won the nomination. Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham- they all flipped out, said they couldn’t support him, couldn’t stand him. It was only after Palin was selected that they changed their minds and even then all the support was for her, not him.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I don't think it's a HUGE deal, but I think you're also forgetting how narrow the margin was in 2016. Wouldn't have taken many establishment Republicans staying home because the stakes weren't as great to change everything.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Couple things:
1. Tim didn't say Free Republic was a representation of "typical Republicans". He said he believes it to be a good representation of the Republican base. It's an important distinction that should not be mischaracterized like that.
2. Are we really questioning the mental capacity of John McCain? Is there something specific you've seen in his actions post diagnosis that leads you to this opinion or is at simple as "dude has brain cancer. he's simply not fit" ? This is probably one of the more ignorant takes unless there are some recent incidents I am unaware of. I remember observing him during the Clinton questioning and thinking something was way off. There was...it was a huge tumor pushing against his brain. Since then? There is zero indication there is anything wrong with him mentally.
1. Tim didn't say Free Republic was a representation of "typical Republicans". He said he believes it to be a good representation of the Republican base. It's an important distinction that should not be mischaracterized like that.
2. Are we really questioning the mental capacity of John McCain? Is there something specific you've seen in his actions post diagnosis that leads you to this opinion or is at simple as "dude has brain cancer. he's simply not fit" ? This is probably one of the more ignorant takes unless there are some recent incidents I am unaware of. I remember observing him during the Clinton questioning and thinking something was way off. There was...it was a huge tumor pushing against his brain. Since then? There is zero indication there is anything wrong with him mentally.
packersfan
Footballguy
I'm guessing for Trump supporters if you don't comply with everything Trump wants that's an example of McCain not being fit to serve.
timschochet
Footballguy
It started with campaign finance reform, and then running against Bush in 2000. But if I had to list one issue over all the rest, it’s immigration. McCain has the old school Reaganesque view on this; he doesn’t see undocumented immigrants as villains. He wants some kind of amnesty.
I'm not questioning his mental capacity, but if I were, I'd point to his line of questioning toward the end of the Comey hearing. It was super weird.
ETA: I don't remember whether that was before or after his diagnosis.
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Seems like a distinction without a difference. It is a very sad commentary at what goes on at internet sites like that, but FreeRepublic is a representation of a pretty extreme wing of the right. Trying to broadly generalize that represents Trump's base is far fetched. Most people, including most Trump supporters, are not that wrapped up in politics to have that kind of anger.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
It's not just conservatives. A bunch of people on the left disgraced themselves when Scalia died, including a few folks on this board.JuniorNB said:
It can't be healthy to walk around with that level of hatred for other human beings. But these sorts of deaths always seem to bring out the worst posters.
The Commish
Footballguy
The base is shrinking more and more to the extreme. A LOT of people have bailed and no longer associate with the party. It's certainly not a distinction without a difference. We see that difference on display at this very site.
The Commish
Footballguy
That was just prior....and what I was referring to....sorry, I said it was the Hillary hearings. I was wrong.
dkp993
Footballguy
Honestly Tim after Obama’s first term it is now, and has been, my first consideration when placing my vote. The stagnation of any progress due to Congress and the Senate being so partisan has made me feel the power of the presidency is diminished. The courts hold sway far more for long-term decisions and actions. Just my opinion of course but I absolutely strongly consider the Supreme Court nominations when casting my vote.
Not having empathy for a dying human being because of political differences is a pretty sad state. In the scheme of things, it is not all that important unless they are truly evil. In general, our politicians do not fall into that category including Sarah Palin.
HellToupee
Footballguy
McCain is no saint. He hated Romney, hated him because he didn’t drink,swear & was still married to his first and only wife
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yeah I noticed it was a top priority for Trump. I'm sure they'll get right on that, right after looting the nation's treasury.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
I'll always remember John McCain for selling endless war to the American public, leveraging his status as a veteran to normalize violent military campaigns, and being hailed as a human rights champion for it. There was no number of troops John wasn't willing to send off to go die in a war. No amount of human life he wasn't willing to sacrifice for money and power. No military atrocity too deranged for him to lend a sympathetic POW face to.
There's little I find more contemptible than that.
There's little I find more contemptible than that.
Where this "McCain is a saint" talk comes from I don't know. It's certainly not reflected in his voting record.
timschochet
Footballguy
There are very few people here that I regard as representative of the general voting public. Certainly not you.
Consider that a compliment.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Is there any data to support this? Last I checked, Trump's approval ratings amongst Republicans was between 85-90%.
Besides a couple of high profile folks like George Will and Joe Scarborough leaving the party, I think most Republicans came home, voted Trump, and remain with the Party today.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
I don't remember if I disgraced myself, but my law school renamed itself after Scalia shortly after his death, so karma got me back.
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