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Dynasty: RB Chase Edmonds, Cardinals

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3 hours ago, whole-show said:

Cardinals returned to practice today and looked like just about everyone was there and Chase Edmonds looks like he’ll be ready to go this week per Bob McManaman

But will be he be the lead back or is this going to be a cluster*?

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1 hour ago, Shutout said:

I love DJ. Will always defend him and probably be too biased sometimes but I think he's just a guy that has been a lot more injured than he is willing to gripe about and he needs an off-season.  He's been on such a bad team and took a beating for a while that he needs a change get of venue.  I kind of hope they decide to keep Drake and Chase and DJ can go so where else.  Send him to Tampa or new England next year and I'd take him all day long.  

The NFL is just a weird business where things move fast.  But players go through good and bad times.  

It might be a good time to pursue him in dynasty.  It just seems that his inability to run between the tackles makes him best suited to be a 3rd down back.  He could still provide nice fantasy value as strictly a passing down back.

Edited by Don Hutson

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I'm having a lot of trouble deciding whether to roster Edmonds.  Kenyan isn't going to lose the lead role.  I would still roster Edmonds in a running back heavy league if I was confident that he would be lead dog if Kenyan got hurt but it seems like it could easily be a 50/50 split with David Johnson.  Or DJ could be lead dog.

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I don't think this is at all where AZ is. I think DJ is likely done as anything but a 3rd down back, certainly for this year. There has not been a game with a healthy Drake and Edwards available, but I think they will share the load until it become clear one is superior. I think that's up in the air, but more likely to be Edwards.

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12 minutes ago, Catbird said:

I don't think this is at all where AZ is. I think DJ is likely done as anything but a 3rd down back, certainly for this year. There has not been a game with a healthy Drake and Edwards available, but I think they will share the load until it become clear one is superior. I think that's up in the air, but more likely to be Edwards.

That''s good enough for me.  I'll roster Edmonds (not Edwards) for at least a week.

Edited by Don Hutson

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What might make the most sense is for David Johnson to be the 3rd down back and Edmonds and Drake to split the early down work.  DJ has been trash rushing the ball but he is the best pass protector of the three by far and he has receiving ability.

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Knowing the following, what do think the Cardinals are going to do next year?

Quote

RUNNING BACKS

POS.                              2019                 2020                    2021                     2022           2023

David JohnsonRB      $9,750,000       $14,250,000        $12,000,000        UFA-

Kenyan DrakeRB        $1,072,059       UFA---

Chase EdmondsRB    $683,089         $773,089              $863,092             UFA-

D.J. FosterRB              $519,528         RFA---

Zach ZennerRB           $473,529         UFA---

 

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1 minute ago, djjosee said:

Knowing the following, what do think the Cardinals are going to do next year?

 

I think DJs is fully guaranteed 

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29 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

I think DJs is fully guaranteed 

$5.1 million of his 2020 pay is guaranteed.  The remaining $5.1 million will guarantee on March 15th.  I doubt they believe he is worth an additional $5.1 million so he could be cut and they'll be out $5.1 million.  He could even be shut down this year because they won't want him to get an injury that could last past March 15th and make it impossible to cut.

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I'm back off the Edmonds train.  I just looked at videos of his 2019 touches.  He is impressive but I can't see him overtaking Kenyan.  Kenyan has been great.  Edmonds is small.  He doesn't have the build to be a workhorse back.  And he is an average receiver.  If I thought he was capable of having games with 5-6 receptions, I wouldn't mind that he will likely have a part time role.  In a 50/50 split, Kenyan holds much more value because of his receiving abilities.  If I were weak at running back, Edmonds would be more enticing but I have good depth.  A player that projects to get 8-12 carries and 1-3 receptions doesn't hold any value for me.

Edited by Don Hutson

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1 hour ago, djjosee said:

Knowing the following, what do think the Cardinals are going to do next year?

 

If I’m reading this correctly than Johnson is gone and Drake will want a payday after playing well. With Gordon, Johnson, Hunt and who knows who else Drake could be back.

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3 hours ago, Don Hutson said:

$5.1 million of his 2020 pay is guaranteed.  The remaining $5.1 million will guarantee on March 15th.  I doubt they believe he is worth an additional $5.1 million so he could be cut and they'll be out $5.1 million.  He could even be shut down this year because they won't want him to get an injury that could last past March 15th and make it impossible to cut.

16 million dead cap in 2020 though, so they save paying the money but they can't spend it on another player?

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11 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

16 million dead cap in 2020 though, so they save paying the money but they can't spend it on another player?

They'll have a net loss of $1.95 million from their 2020 cap if they cut him before his salary guarantees on March 15th.  And while they have the 5th least cap space available in 2019 being only $2.8 million under the cap, they have the 6th most cap space in 2020 being $77.9 million under the cap.  I've never seen such a dramatic difference in cap space from one year to the next.

Edited by Don Hutson
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4 hours ago, djjosee said:

Knowing the following, what do think the Cardinals are going to do next year?

 

DJ cut, Drake walks in FA unless they can get him for cheap, Edmonds incumbent starter, and rookie drafted in the top 90-120 picks to compete for touches. 

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3 hours ago, Don Hutson said:

Edmonds is small.  He doesn't have the build to be a workhorse back.  

Neither does Drake, and I've always liked Drake. 

I would say Edmonds is more compact and in today's NFL, being a "workhorse back" isn't everything.

Part-time roles can have a lot of value depending on how the touches are distributed.  

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Edmonds is listed on rotoworld as 5'9" 205 lbs. That is a higher BMI than Drake at 6'1" 211 lbs. If I have it right it is 30.3 to 27.8.

I'm not saying BMI means anything - just an observation.

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50 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

Edmonds is listed on rotoworld as 5'9" 205 lbs. That is a higher BMI than Drake at 6'1" 211 lbs. If I have it right it is 30.3 to 27.8.

I'm not saying BMI means anything - just an observation.

Thanks for the post. I’ve been saying I think if Edmonds plays he takes over that number one spot. Drake has been good and I do like Drake, but I just feel Edmonds was the cardinals guy before he got hurt and was doing a fantastic job so just feel when he comes back he’s the starter again and do think he his slightly better then Drake. It could just be because what I saw out of Drake on the Dolphins and I get the whole “it was the Dolphins” reasoning and maybe he’s shown enough in his couple games to Kingsbury to keep the job, but just feel Kingsbury will be more comfortable with the guy he’s had on the team and knows what he’s done when given the opportunity. 

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So we have 2 smaller-than-average backs who were both thrust into a heavy workload because of a lack of options.  Both backs excelled with the heavy workload.  First off, their success gives me faith that Kingsbury's system is running back friendly.  But I have trouble believing that they'll pick one of them to have a heavy workload at the cost of the other when both have been effective and both are on the small side.  They can certainly put up 10-15 points a week each if they are in an even timeshare.  That can be a huge asset to a fantasy team weak at running back.  Their remaining schedule is not easy.  All 4 opponents from Week 13-16 have been above average at preventing opposing running backs from scoring fantasy points.  Although, none have been dominant at stopping running backs.

                            rb fantasy pts allowed rank

Week 13      Rams             14th

Week 14     Steelers           6th

Week 15      Browns          13th

Week 16  @Seahawks      10th

Edited by Don Hutson

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6 hours ago, EBF said:

DJ cut, Drake walks in FA unless they can get him for cheap, Edmonds incumbent starter, and rookie drafted in the top 90-120 picks to compete for touches. 

I think this is the scenario that makes Edmonds worth holding onto and/or acquiring if the price is right. And really, what is the up-front cost even if DJ isn't let go or they do sign Drake? I'm guessing most people drafted Edmonds late or added him off waivers, and he's been hurt/inactive for weeks now. I also imagine a lot of people are going to view him as the 3rd option behind some combo of DJ/Drake so maybe he can be acquired pretty cheap right now. Has Edmonds really crept up very much above the price of a lottery ticket stash? 

Edited by DAG

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Cardinals RB Chase Edmonds (hamstring) wasn't listed on the team's final injury report.

The Cardinals have almost completely relegated Davis Johnson to the bench, as their long-time starting RB played just nine total snaps in Week 11 and failed to record a touch. Meanwhile, Kenyan Drake has been nothing short of spectacular since joining the squad in Week 9, as he's posted 41-212-1 rushing and 16-71-0 receiving lines over the Cardinals' past three games. Overall, only Christian McCaffrey, Derrick Henry, Dalvin Cook, Melvin Gordon, Josh Jacobs, Alvin Kamara and Le'Veon Bell have averaged more PPR per game than Drake over the past three weeks even though the Cardinals have had less-than-ideal matchups against the 49ers (x2) and Buccaneers. Treat Drake as an upside RB3 in Week 13, but recognize we likely haven't seen the last of the reshuffling in this backfield. There's a very real chance that we see each of Drake, Edmonds and Johnson receive a decent portion of snaps. This scenario could render each as low-floor fantasy options.

SOURCE: Mike Jurecki on Twitter

Nov 29, 2019, 5:09 PM ET

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On 11/28/2019 at 4:29 AM, DAG said:

I think this is the scenario that makes Edmonds worth holding onto and/or acquiring if the price is right. And really, what is the up-front cost even if DJ isn't let go or they do sign Drake? I'm guessing most people drafted Edmonds late or added him off waivers, and he's been hurt/inactive for weeks now. I also imagine a lot of people are going to view him as the 3rd option behind some combo of DJ/Drake so maybe he can be acquired pretty cheap right now. Has Edmonds really crept up very much above the price of a lottery ticket stash? 

Market value based on trade talks with a couple guys in my leagues (as an owner) is somewhere in the neighborhood of a late 2nd

 

Edit: mostly because of the possibility (but non-guarantee) of this exact scenario 

Edited by EthnicFury

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Just now, EthnicFury said:

Market value based on trade talks with a couple guys in my leagues (as an owner) is somewhere in the neighborhood of a late 2nd

That’s interesting, and helpful to know. I was offered a late second in a 16 team league when he was still healthy and after his 3 TD game and I passed. Assuming a 12 team league late 2nd seems about as high as I’d want to pay, and probably the price at which I’d be inclined to hold so seems like a reasonable range to me. 

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34 minutes ago, DAG said:

That’s interesting, and helpful to know. I was offered a late second in a 16 team league when he was still healthy and after his 3 TD game and I passed. Assuming a 12 team league late 2nd seems about as high as I’d want to pay, and probably the price at which I’d be inclined to hold so seems like a reasonable range to me. 

@EBF made a pretty good case pre-injury re: why he was probably worth holding vs anything less than a late 1st, even though it was fairly unlikely to be offered. Obviously the injury and drake trade were a hit and it’s possible he missed his shot, so I agree a mid to late 2 feels about right.


That said, I think he’s probably a hold for now at that price, simply because there’s more protection on the downside than the upside. The consensus value is based primarily on him maybe being featured next year, with little expected return in 2019. If he takes a backseat to Drake for the rest of the year, most of that remains true in the offseason until drake is re-signed or leaves (and there’s the narratives of “he still wasn’t 100%” and/or “drake had the hot hand”). If he winds up overtaking Drake before year end his value skyrockets again.

Edited by EthnicFury
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Yea. I posted the Ertz offer and obviously in hindsight it looks bad to have passed on that (for now), but that was an anomaly.

People are chronic lowballers in dynasty. Most trade offers you receive will be crap and Edmonds isn't the type of guy to generate wild overpays.

Like I said, he has a lot of factors working against him: low draft slot, obscure college, no name recognition.

That's not the type of guy people sell the farm to acquire. If you get any interest at all, it's going to be nibbles where people try to get something without giving up anything. It's pointless to "sell high" when there's no market for a player. I think he's still a hold, if not a buy. If you were a believer, his long-term outlook hasn't changed. He simply got hurt. Drake is a rental until proven otherwise and DJ continues to be a shell of his former self.

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13 hours ago, EBF said:

Yea. I posted the Ertz offer and obviously in hindsight it looks bad to have passed on that (for now), but that was an anomaly.

People are chronic lowballers in dynasty. Most trade offers you receive will be crap and Edmonds isn't the type of guy to generate wild overpays.

Like I said, he has a lot of factors working against him: low draft slot, obscure college, no name recognition.

That's not the type of guy people sell the farm to acquire. If you get any interest at all, it's going to be nibbles where people try to get something without giving up anything. It's pointless to "sell high" when there's no market for a player. I think he's still a hold, if not a buy. If you were a believer, his long-term outlook hasn't changed. He simply got hurt. Drake is a rental until proven otherwise and DJ continues to be a shell of his former self.

I have him for dirt cheap in dynasty and think he’s a strong hold. They love him and he will def be part of a committee next year, whether it’s Drake or someone else remains to be seen. IMO, no shot DJ is back next season 

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Man, he’s had zero touches the past few weeks. I know Drake has played well, but not one carry the past two weeks is mystifying. 

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4 hours ago, FGITLOTR said:

Man, he’s had zero touches the past few weeks. I know Drake has played well, but not one carry the past two weeks is mystifying. 

The game moves fast - you get hurt, you can lose an opportunity. If he doesn’t get hurt, maybe the team doesn’t trade for Drake and it could have been Edmonds tearing it up.

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2 hours ago, zamboni said:

The game moves fast - you get hurt, you can lose an opportunity. If he doesn’t get hurt, maybe the team doesn’t trade for Drake and it could have been Edmonds tearing it up.

Agreed. Wondering how this shakes out for dynasty 

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10 minutes ago, FGITLOTR said:

Agreed. Wondering how this shakes out for dynasty 

Guess it depends on whether the Cards re-sign Drake or now. Seems like DJ is on the outs even if they can't cut/trade him due to cap implications.

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Price check from owners? I'm not a believer in Drake and think Chase can be long-term answer for Cards for 4-5 seasons. 

First seems too much, second too low. Second plus player?

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2 hours ago, tombonneau said:

Price check from owners? I'm not a believer in Drake and think Chase can be long-term answer for Cards for 4-5 seasons. 

First seems too much, second too low. Second plus player?

Tough break for Edmonds getting hurt when he did and opening the door for Drake. I think he’s got a lot of potential, but barring injury to Drake, he’s likely going to have to caddy for this year due to Kingsbury’s man crush for Drake.

I will be looking to stash him away thought and hope for 2021.

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2 hours ago, tombonneau said:

Price check from owners? I'm not a believer in Drake and think Chase can be long-term answer for Cards for 4-5 seasons. 

First seems too much, second too low. Second plus player?

I added him from the waivers last year so I doubt I could get a 2nd for him.  I like him and thought he played well briefly.  He is young so maybe he gets a chance this year due to injury or if Drake underwhelms (although he looked pretty good on the Cardinals last year).

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, tombonneau said:

Price check from owners? I'm not a believer in Drake and think Chase can be long-term answer for Cards for 4-5 seasons. 

First seems too much, second too low. Second plus player?

Gotta be careful here...I would wait till after the draft to go after Edmonds...most likely not gonna happen but you would hate to deal for Edmonds then see the Cards add another RB in something like the third round...that would be real bad news...with Drake in the fold his value is probably not going to go up between now and the draft...I would hold off until after the draft and then if you still want to grab him I gotta believe you can figure out a way to do it.

Edited by Boston
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I'd love to get a 2nd for Edmonds. I'm trying to hold thru FFPC cuts because I'd like to see him emerge but only because that one team is super thin. Easy cut on most squads. Instant accept on a 2nd though. Nobody has even sniffed at him though.

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12 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

I'd love to get a 2nd for Edmonds. I'm trying to hold thru FFPC cuts because I'd like to see him emerge but only because that one team is super thin. Easy cut on most squads. Instant accept on a 2nd though. Nobody has even sniffed at him though.

Interesting that second would get it done. I will make an offer post draft (per above good recommendation). My angle is a combo of Drake fade and Edmonds believer. Guess a lot will depend on CE owners view of Drake. 

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Own both guys in many leagues. Always liked Drake. One thing to remember though is that he's not necessarily a bell cow type of back. I think his body type and play style might not hold up to full time work, so we could see a shared workload or possibly durability issues opening the door for Edmonds to get some snaps.

Signing Drake has to be viewed as a negative for Edmonds though because it's strong competition for touches. Since Edmonds was never a household name in the first place, I'm sure most owners would bite for a random 2nd. Personally, I'm likely to hold. As I said, I have both guys in many leagues, so it's a handcuff situation for me.

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3 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

I'd love to get a 2nd for Edmonds. I'm trying to hold thru FFPC cuts because I'd like to see him emerge but only because that one team is super thin. Easy cut on most squads. Instant accept on a 2nd though. Nobody has even sniffed at him though.

I'm in same boat. Cleared out 4 roster spots via trade and still have Edmonds as in contention with another player as my last keeper. Would pounce on a second. Drake owner has pick 1.1 so he'll be able to get a third RB but he looks like he's only going to carry Drake and Kamara when cuts are made. 2.1 is a bit high for Edmonds but I'd take a 2021 second but he has no interest. Honestly that just makes me want to keep him more if I can.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I think it was this thread. I don't think Edmonds should be viewed as weekly usable. But barring them adding a big time RB in the draft he should be viewed as a league changing handcuff. I always like to roster a guy like that that is handcuff to my guy but would rather acquire them post March 31 when rosters can be expanded.

But long story short, I'd take a second.

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Drake signed his transition tender. 

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