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matttyl

2018 3 down LBs, who ya got?

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Especially those playing either in the middle, or weak side.  Those are the money linebackers who rack up tackles.  Who has those roles this year?

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That said it's traditionally a good list.  It's very similar to something I've seen here at FBG so I hope it's not ripped off from subscriber content.

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20 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

 

That's not been updated yet - Preston Brown in BUF, no rookies, etc.

I see Preston as listed in Cincy and lots of rookies.

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24 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

 

That's not been updated yet - Preston Brown in BUF, no rookies, etc.

Both top rookies listed on their teams. 

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Hmm, I'm getting a Google Docs error on the main page, followed the list just above the table which is to 2017 version.  Wonder why I can't see the main import?

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20 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

Hmm, I'm getting a Google Docs error on the main page, followed the list just above the table which is to 2017 version.  Wonder why I can't see the main import?

 

Not sure, try a different machine?  I do see the link, though, which takes you to the 2017 list.  Interesting. 

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Re: Pittsburgh

There is no way that TJ Watt wont be a 100% 3-down linebacker in Pittsburgh.  None.

And there is serious doubt that they want Vince Williams to be a 3-down backer, but that has a lot to do with John Bostic and the safeties like Burnett and Edmunds.

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5 hours ago, BigSteelThrill said:

Re: Pittsburgh

There is no way that TJ Watt wont be a 100% 3-down linebacker in Pittsburgh.  None.

And there is serious doubt that they want Vince Williams to be a 3-down backer, but that has a lot to do with John Bostic and the safeties like Burnett and Edmunds.

That jumped out at me too.

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31 minutes ago, Flying Elvis said:

When Bostic is hurt by week 3, will Williams be back into a 3 down role?

I think one of these veterans hanging out there are going to eventually sign with the Steelers.  I mean, after Shazier got injured last year they gave a guy they literally signed off the street the same workload they assigned Williams.  I don't know who will ultimately eat into his snap count, but I expect the Steelers to experiment with different personnel groupings to see if something will stick.  If nothing does then they will ride with him in December and January again and hope for the best.

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16 hours ago, The Man With No Name said:

I would bet a bundle that Bostic isn't fantasy relevant most of the season, regardless of health

 

I’ll take that bet.  Bostic was drafted by CHI to be a stud, but it’s pretty clear he isn’t cut out for that.  But he seems to function very well as a full time role player, and there’s FF relevance there for full IDP leagues.

 

In the name of transparency, I do own him but depending upon how at least one rookie looks, he very well may be on the bubble/block for my team.

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Some guys fall under the radar because it appears that their opportunity to play came and they were passed up for the opportunity. That doesnt hold true for Tyler Matakevich. He actually got hurt in the same game as shazier or he would have been owned everywhere now as he was the next man up.  I realize it’s a big if, but I’d bet that if he stays healthy in 2018, he plays every down. He’s played every snap in one game in his career and it was towards the end of ‘16 and I’m not going to go back and look but I’m pretty sure he had 12 combined tackles. He also started over bostic and VW at OTA’s. He could be the LB1 for Pitt.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/04/kevin-colbert-on-tyler-matakevich-we-may-have-had-a-whole-different-discussion-if-he-didnt-get-injured/

 

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/05/2018-offseason-questions-could-vince-williams-lose-starting-job/

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/Article/Tyler-Matakevich-starts-over-Jon-Bostic-at-Pittsburgh-Steelers-OTAs-118436037/Amp

 

im also fairly sure and I’ve posted in another threads that either Walker or Goode will be a 3 down LB for Indy and neither are on most radars. I think they’ll both start but one may cede to the SLB and an extra safety on 3rd. Both were playing 3 downs in OTA’s so worth keeping on the radar. 

 

It’ll likely only be a 2 down role until Hicks gets hurt but Nate Gerry immediately took over the Kendrick’s role in philly in OTA’s after the salary dump and he was  a safety in college so a 3 down role could develop if he holds the job

 

It was this time last year that I first mentioned Bostic, Humber, Farley due to rumblings from the coaches and local writers, and at the time all 3 were on ww in even the deepest of leagues, so worth keeping an eye on the above.

Edited by Robar
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Regardless of what Colbert may be saying in an OTA puff piece or two, I'd expect there is just about no way Pittsburgh is looking at Tyler Matakevich as an every down player.  I think they know exactly what they have in him already:  He's extremely limited in coverage, and has been taken advantage of in that regard in his limited playing time.  Yeah, he's good on teams and he plays his a$$ off, buuuut.....yeah.  Unless guys get hurt, I'd expect that he's exactly what he already is.....a backup ILB, mostly for first and second down work, who will be splitting snaps with someone (probably a couple someones).

I don't see Bostic as anything more than a 2-down guy either.  He's good against the run, suspect against the pass.  Great.   Stopping the run is useful, sure, but having that be your only trick in today's NFL pretty much makes a guy a dinosaur.  "Earl Holmes 2.0" doesn't exactly pump my 'nads. :)

Vince Williams is a pretty good interior blitzer, which is a nice thing to have and something the Steelers like to do a pretty decent bit, but is limited in coverage too (you can see a pattern forming here, I'm sure, and it's potentially a really big problem for the Steelers). 

Add on to all that the following two points: 1. The Steelers drafted a couple of bigger, faster safeties whose games are more akin to "athletic LBs" than "run-of-the-mill DBs", and 2. They've been playing a larger percentage of "subs as the base package" the last few years (particularly Nickel or some kind of 4-2-5 with Watt or Dupree/both lining up with hands on the ground).   Taking that in to account, we can likely start reading the tea leaves at least a bit.

What all those signs point to from my POV is that none of those three ILBs are likely to be 3-down players for the Steelers at all, unless Pittsburgh suffers a host of injuries.  They will rotate based on down/distance/etc.  Clear running situations probably will be Williams and one of Bostic/Matakevich.  If they continue to pursue running a lot of subs and don't feel like any of their ILBs are up to snuff in coverage I am not going to be surprised at all to see them running out those young Safeties as at least one of the LBs in those packages, likely with Williams as the other guy inside to be accounted for on the blitz, or with Watt moving toward the middle of the field standing up with Hargraves/et al coming in on the line.

The only Steeler LB who I think is guaranteed to be a 3-down guy right now is Watt, but given how he was utilized in the scheme (so far, anyway) he probably isn't very useful outside of big play scoring.  For the inside guys, if I had to own one then Williams is likely still the guy I'd target.  He will probably have the highest snap count among the inside guys (whatever that amounts to), most of them at the Buck, and can be a useful blitzer. 

 

Edited by 5-ish Finkle
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17 hours ago, 5-ish Finkle said:

Regardless of what Colbert may be saying in an OTA puff piece or two, I'd expect there is just about no way Pittsburgh is looking at Tyler Matakevich as an every down player.  I think they know exactly what they have in him already:  He's extremely limited in coverage, and has been taken advantage of in that regard in his limited playing time.  Yeah, he's good on teams and he plays his a$$ off, buuuut.....yeah.  Unless guys get hurt, I'd expect that he's exactly what he already is.....a backup ILB, mostly for first and second down work, who will be splitting snaps with someone (probably a couple someones).

I don't see Bostic as anything more than a 2-down guy either.  He's good against the run, suspect against the pass.  Great.   Stopping the run is useful, sure, but having that be your only trick in today's NFL pretty much makes a guy a dinosaur.  "Earl Holmes 2.0" doesn't exactly pump my 'nads. :)

Vince Williams is a pretty good interior blitzer, which is a nice thing to have and something the Steelers like to do a pretty decent bit, but is limited in coverage too (you can see a pattern forming here, I'm sure, and it's potentially a really big problem for the Steelers). 

Add on to all that the following two points: 1. The Steelers drafted a couple of bigger, faster safeties whose games are more akin to "athletic LBs" than "run-of-the-mill DBs", and 2. They've been playing a larger percentage of "subs as the base package" the last few years (particularly Nickel or some kind of 4-2-5 with Watt or Dupree/both lining up with hands on the ground).   Taking that in to account, we can likely start reading the tea leaves at least a bit.

What all those signs point to from my POV is that none of those three ILBs are likely to be 3-down players for the Steelers at all, unless Pittsburgh suffers a host of injuries.  They will rotate based on down/distance/etc.  Clear running situations probably will be Williams and one of Bostic/Matakevich.  If they continue to pursue running a lot of subs and don't feel like any of their ILBs are up to snuff in coverage I am not going to be surprised at all to see them running out those young Safeties as at least one of the LBs in those packages, likely with Williams as the other guy inside to be accounted for on the blitz, or with Watt moving toward the middle of the field standing up with Hargraves/et al coming in on the line.

The only Steeler LB who I think is guaranteed to be a 3-down guy right now is Watt, but given how he was utilized in the scheme (so far, anyway) he probably isn't very useful outside of big play scoring.  For the inside guys, if I had to own one then Williams is likely still the guy I'd target.  He will probably have the highest snap count among the inside guys (whatever that amounts to), most of them at the Buck, and can be a useful blitzer. 

 

I’ll respectfully disagree. There’s no way the green dot doesn’t go to a mlb/wlb/ilb and neither safety will be ready for that job in year one. Only way one of VW, mat, bostic isn’t three downs is if they sign Mychal Kendricks and as of today the Steelers and colts are the ones that appear the most interested. Cowboys as well. 

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2 hours ago, Robar said:

I’ll respectfully disagree. There’s no way the green dot doesn’t go to a mlb/wlb/ilb and neither safety will be ready for that job in year one. Only way one of VW, mat, bostic isn’t three downs is if they sign Mychal Kendricks and as of today the Steelers and colts are the ones that appear the most interested. Cowboys as well. 

Of course they won't be giving the green dot to a rookie part-timer.  I never even implied that.

They'll give it to the guy at ILB who is on the field the for most of the snaps.  That is likely going to be Williams.  That does not mean that he will play every single snap on defense though.

 

 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Are we sure the Steelers didn't draft Edmunds to be a linebacker?

Not yet, no. 

I expect it's more likely they're viewing him as some type of hybrid though.

Edited by 5-ish Finkle

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7 minutes ago, 5-ish Finkle said:

Of course they won't be giving the green dot to a rookie part-timer.  I never even implied that.

They'll give it to the guy at ILB who is on the field the for most of the snaps.  That is likely going to be Williams.  That does not mean that he will play every single snap on defense though

Quoted from you above - 

What all those signs point to from my POV is that none of those three ILBs are likely to be 3-down players for the Steelers at all, unless Pittsburgh suffers a host of injuries.

The only Steeler LB who I think is guaranteed to be a 3-down guy right now is Watt

 

One of VW, Mat, or Bostic will be playing every down or 95% of the downs. They aren't giving the dot to a player that leaves the field on 3rd, which is what you stated, not implied, above. 

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Go to the tweet and re-size to 250% so see lengthy list.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Players I consider 3-down inside LBs in green.

@TomDegenerate  20h20 hours ago

LBs drafted in a recent startup. Players I consider 3-down inside LBs in green. Ones with potential to do that in 2018 in orange. The position is ridiculously deep. You can wait so much longer than you think you can.

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Wasn't it the Steelers that announced a draft pick as LB when they selected him despite being a S in college?

 

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3 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Go to the tweet and re-size to 250% so see lengthy list.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Players I consider 3-down inside LBs in green.

@TomDegenerate  20h20 hours ago

LBs drafted in a recent startup. Players I consider 3-down inside LBs in green. Ones with potential to do that in 2018 in orange. The position is ridiculously deep. You can wait so much longer than you think you can.

Also from the same thread...."This is not scientific at all. Made it in 2 mins."

Generally interesting though and someone who's idp opinions I like reading.

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4 hours ago, Flying Elvis said:

Wasn't it the Steelers that announced a draft pick as LB when they selected him despite being a S in college?

 

Nope, Kyzir White, Chargers 

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On 5/29/2018 at 0:19 PM, Bracie Smathers said:

Go to the tweet and re-size to 250% so see lengthy list.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Players I consider 3-down inside LBs in green.

@TomDegenerate  20h20 hours ago

LBs drafted in a recent startup. Players I consider 3-down inside LBs in green. Ones with potential to do that in 2018 in orange. The position is ridiculously deep. You can wait so much longer than you think you can.

That list is a good starting point. I have a few disagreements, will post later.

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13 hours ago, massraider said:

That list is a good starting point. I have a few disagreements, will post later.

I will post mine

I can tell owners still get caught up in names. Maybe they drafted Mack as DE. Clowney, Judon, Chubb, Houston, Irvin and Watt take a huge nosedive unless really big play scoring. In 14 team league, they are #4 guys who are matchup guys only. In heavy tackle, they are pretty useless

Other reaches. Joe Schobert with Collins back makes him more of a 4 guy to me. Won’t see nearly as many snaps as Collins and Kirksey play more

i like Martinez but not at 6. In dynasty, he reminds me of Paul Worrilow. Probably good numbers but always looking around corner. Better 2 guy.

Jordan Hicks scares me coming off injury for sure. Again not sure on talent. 

Vince Williams. In that tier 3 but I prefer him as a 4. Not sure how Pitt LB shake out but be weary of Kendricks

christian Jones. He is more like 70 guy. He is FA in my home league where over 100 guys rostered. 

Underrated

Trevathon. He puts up numbers and even with Freeman, should put up numbers with Smith instead. I like him over quite a few guys in front. 

collins. 41st as bottom 3rd tier too low. Like him in tier 2. 

Foster. Now out of trouble, he should be in tier 2. Still worried about personality and desire

Macmillan. Not sure about injury but opp has him way higher.

Bynes. Not big on him but chance to be tier 4 LB there. Could do Dansby like numbers as Cards MLB has been good

 

i think overall, the top 2 tiers of LB is nice. Could live with combination of many guys

in my league, we start 56 guys and I think near end, it really drops off. Not sure I would be happy with Perryman, Denarrio Davis, Marshall and Whitehead as LB crew. So while you can wait, when the run gets going, don’t hesitate to go heavy as hate to start this. I know my home league, owners who waited seem to have some critical need cores. Puts them in a big hole. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Crippler said:

Other reaches. Joe Schobert with Collins back makes him more of a 4 guy to me. Won’t see nearly as many snaps as Collins and Kirksey play more

Jordan Hicks scares me coming off injury for sure. Again not sure on talent. 

Underrated

Trevathon. He puts up numbers and even with Freeman, should put up numbers with Smith instead. I like him over quite a few guys in front. 

collins. 41st as bottom 3rd tier too low. Like him in tier 2. 

Foster. Now out of trouble, he should be in tier 2. Still worried about personality and desire

I think Schobert is overrated for different reasons.  The Browns traded humongous space-eating NT Danny Shelton to NE.  Shelton 'covered' smaller LBers like Schobert and Kirksey to allow them to attack gaps unmolested.  Add, SS Jabrll Peppers won't be lined up 35 yards off the LOS playing 'angel', he will be up in the box stealing tackles.

I like Jordan Hicks so long as he's healthy.

I think Trevathon loses a lot of luster after drafting Roquain Smith so I think he's got that right.

I agree with Jamie Collins as being under rated.

I am not on some high moral ground looking down on Reuben Foster but I think he is trash as a human being.  He fell in the draft because he had 'questions' about his character and he's shown he can't control poor impulses.  It was best said by a source from a team who needed a LB that passed on him after last year's draft.

Quote

“He already had immaturity, issues with life skills. This is the same guy,” said an evaluator for the team after Foster was sent home from Indianapolis. “We’re not in the market.”

 

Edited by Bracie Smathers

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17 hours ago, massraider said:

Heck I think the CLE LBs might have less chances because team going to be lot better

I mean, this is said too often, but they literally can't be worse.  But I still have doubts about how much better this team will be.  The only significant change on defense is Jabrill moving to where he belonged all along and Randall roaming deep.  Which is noteworthy, but could also lead to Schobert being subpackaged out to more of a 75-80% role.

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42 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I mean, this is said too often, but they literally can't be worse.  But I still have doubts about how much better this team will be.  The only significant change on defense is Jabrill moving to where he belonged all along and Randall roaming deep.  Which is noteworthy, but could also lead to Schobert being subpackaged out to more of a 75-80% role.

I was going to mention game scripts but their was too much to unpack but you are pulling me into it.

Jabrill isn't the only change on defense. 

Defensively their is a near total renovated defensive backfield with three of the four players being changed over.  I anticipate Jabrill will be playing as a box safety to the point he will look like a totally different player.  I'm sold on Denzel already.  I think Damarius Randall is going to take chances and at times get burned but make plenty of plays at FS.  I'm not so sure about T.J. Carrie at  this time.  He graded out really high from PFF but I need to see him and how all of those moving parts work together.

To me, it is the unit is completely different.  Their are other things to note on defense and don't get me started about the changes on offense and that is why I didn't bother to mention game scripts when speaking of Joe Schobert.  Everything is connected and the Browns 'probably' have more parts in motion than any other NFL team at this point.

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11 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

I was going to mention game scripts but their was too much to unpack but you are pulling me into it.

Jabrill isn't the only change on defense. 

Defensively their is a near total renovated defensive backfield with three of the four players being changed over.  I anticipate Jabrill will be playing as a box safety to the point he will look like a totally different player.  I'm sold on Denzel already.  I think Damarius Randall is going to take chances and at times get burned but make plenty of plays at FS.  I'm not so sure about T.J. Carrie at  this time.  He graded out really high from PFF but I need to see him and how all of those moving parts work together.

To me, it is the unit is completely different.  Their are other things to note on defense and don't get me started about the changes on offense and that is why I didn't bother to mention game scripts when speaking of Joe Schobert.  Everything is connected and the Browns 'probably' have more parts in motion than any other NFL team at this point.

There are some new names, but outside of Ward they aren't significantly different than the guys that were here before.  More speed, but less reliable/consistent.  Both units present problems; they're just different problems.  And expecting Ward to be a cornerstone year one is a recipe for disappointment.  It'd be cool if he develops into one, but that's a better topic for a year from now.  Since Shelton wasn't really replaced I have my eyebrow raised about that unit too, but we're already too far away from 3 down LB's and that only extends it further.

I think there's some legitimacy to the game script narrative impacting Schobert's usage, but with so many new parts to this offense I think it's more something to keep in mind for later in the season than worry about in Sep/Oct.  It's going to take time for the offense to find its footing, if it does, so I'd expect plenty of playing-from-behind game scripts - at least early on anyway.  Especially if Williams' defensive scheme is anywhere near as incompetent as last year's version.

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5 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

There are some new names, but outside of Ward they aren't significantly different than the guys that were here before.  More speed, but less reliable/consistent.  Both units present problems; they're just different problems.  And expecting Ward to be a cornerstone year one is a recipe for disappointment.  It'd be cool if he develops into one, but that's a better topic for a year from now.  Since Shelton wasn't really replaced I have my eyebrow raised about that unit too, but we're already too far away from 3 down LB's and that only extends it further.

I think there's some legitimacy to the game script narrative impacting Schobert's usage, but with so many new parts to this offense I think it's more something to keep in mind for later in the season than worry about in Sep/Oct.  It's going to take time for the offense to find its footing, if it does, so I'd expect plenty of playing-from-behind game scripts - at least early on anyway.  Especially if Williams' defensive scheme is anywhere near as incompetent as last year's version.

 I just disagree with so much I have to respond.

I like Randall a lot.  He was a first round CB and he is uber athletic.   He was a loose cannon in more ways than one so DC Williams making him the 'angel' is a recipe to focus him to one specific role and negate his desire to free lance.  The team is also testing BBC at FS.  They are going more athletic so I think Williams will be positioning the FS 'closer' to the LOS than where he had Peppers lined up last year.

As I said, I need to see T.J. Carrie before saying anything but it looks like Carrie is slotted for one starting CB slot and that, at this time Denzel is not going to start but that E.J. Gaines will at early in the season.  E.J. is reportedly pretty good but gets injured a lot.

I liked McCourty but he was slow and they didn't play man coverage.  Denzel is going to allow him to play press.  You think it will be a disaster but I think he's going to be really good after getting over some initial rookie CB bumps that everyone goes through.  Early reports are good on Denzel.  This morning Pluto joined the long line of beat reporters gushing over Denzel.

Quote

 

Here is the BY FAR, TOO EARLY COMPARISON: The Browns have not had such a physically talented young cornerback as Ward since the best days of Joe Haden. It's also worth mentioning Haden didn't even start until midway through his 2010 rookie season. And he had some rocky moments that year before putting together a pair of Pro Bowl seasons.

Ward ran a 4.32 in the 40-yard dash, the fastest of any defensive player at the 2018 NFL Combine. The Nordonia product drew praise from the coaches on one play where Gordon faked him and ran past Ward for a while -- but Ward sprinted back and caught up with Gordon. There was no pass thrown in that direction. What pleased the coaches was how quickly Ward recovered and got back into the play.

....Ward will play a lot. It's obvious Dorsey had little regard for the previous secondary. I was told Dorsey thought most of the players were very slow.

 

Dorsey obviously felt the secondary was an issue considering the FA dollars and draft capital.

I anticipate the secondary to have the potential to make the biggest turn around since individual performances are based so much on pure athleticism and speed.

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8 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

 I just disagree with so much I have to respond.

I like Randall a lot.  He was a first round CB and he is uber athletic.   He was a loose cannon in more ways than one so DC Williams making him the 'angel' is a recipe to focus him to one specific role and negate his desire to free lance.  The team is also testing BBC at FS.  They are going more athletic so I think Williams will be positioning the FS 'closer' to the LOS than where he had Peppers lined up last year.

As I said, I need to see T.J. Carrie before saying anything but it looks like Carrie is slotted for one starting CB slot and that, at this time Denzel is not going to start but that E.J. Gaines will at early in the season.  E.J. is reportedly pretty good but gets injured a lot.

I liked McCourty but he was slow and they didn't play man coverage.  Denzel is going to allow him to play press.  You think it will be a disaster but I think he's going to be really good after getting over some initial rookie CB bumps that everyone goes through.  Early reports are good on Denzel.  This morning Pluto joined the long line of beat reporters gushing over Denzel.

Dorsey obviously felt the secondary was an issue considering the FA dollars and draft capital.

I anticipate the secondary to have the potential to make the biggest turn around since individual performances are based so much on pure athleticism and speed.

If he's asked to play one-on-one against Antonio Brown, AJ Green, Nuk, etc.  Yes.  Yes, I do.  If he's asked to play one-on-one against JuJu, John Ross, and Will Fuller.  No.  No, I do not.

All I'll say about Carrie is...be careful what you wish for...and hope Gaines stays healthy.  

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2 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

If he's asked to play one-on-one against Antonio Brown, AJ Green, Nuk, etc.  Yes.  Yes, I do.  If he's asked to play one-on-one against JuJu, John Ross, and Will Fuller.  No.  No, I do not.

All I'll say about Carrie is...be careful what you wish for...and hope Gaines stays healthy.  

I think he's going to be good,  really good.  Joe Thomas lost plenty of battles to T-Suggs but that didn't make him a disaster.  Denzel is going to be good, really good.  Embrace it.

I don't have a clue about T.J. Carrie so I don't know what you're hinting at.  I have to see him.  

I am high on Randall.  

This is a complete overhaul of the secondary IMHO.  The only returning starting player is Peppers and he's playing a new position and has a new role.  

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1 minute ago, Bracie Smathers said:

I think he's going to be good,  really good.  Joe Thomas lost plenty of battles to T-Suggs but that didn't make him a disaster.  Denzel is going to be good, really good.  Embrace it.

I don't have a clue about T.J. Carrie so I don't know what you're hinting at.  I have to see him.  

I am high on Randall.  

This is a complete overhaul of the secondary IMHO.  The only returning starting player is Peppers and he's playing a new position and has a new role.  

Cool, how does that relate to 3 down LB's?

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Just now, MAC_32 said:

Cool, how does that relate to 3 down LB's?

Really?  You make specific statements and asked me about that, I respond and then you ask why I didn't respond to the thread?  

I already covered Schobert.  I'm done. 

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Just now, Bracie Smathers said:

Really?  You make specific statements and asked me about that, I respond and then you ask why I didn't respond to the thread?  

I already covered Schobert.  I'm done. 

I didn't ask you anything.  I did mention this group has more speed, which you 'disagree with so much' then went on to talk about this group having more speed and not having a clue about TJ Carrie.  So, you got that going for you.

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On 5/29/2018 at 3:22 PM, drewd_21 said:

Also from the same thread...."This is not scientific at all. Made it in 2 mins."

Generally interesting though and someone who's idp opinions I like reading.

Very good point, and I agree, his feed is pretty great.  He's actually got a solid IDP podcast (Read & React), there's another one (Edge Crushers) that's just painful. 

 

 

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20 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

 TJ Carrie.

Carrie overperformed as a 6th round pick for OAK.  His career is Oakland was pretty much him having OK/decent coverage, and making the tackle after the guy caught the ball.  

If he winds up starting in CLE, and Ward is good,Carrie might be the corner to own for fantasy.  

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Not to help the hijackers, but Josh Jackson may be the rookie CB to own this year. I think he will be starting very early, he can tackle, fantastic athlete, could also be returning punts, I think he’s gonna be a big part of an overhauled Packers defense. 

https://youtu.be/8XWKjwAR8zA

 

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AZ:  Buchanon, and you HAVE to assume Reddick beats out Bynes.

ATL:  Deion Jones.  With Campbell, Riley, Ishmael and Neal running around, I don't see a 2nd lock for this role.  Anyone hear different, I'm all ears.

BAL: Mosley.  Onwuasor had a stretch when he played 3 downs, but last month or so, he did not.  

BUF: Edmunds.  Maybe Milano? BUF might be able to support two top LBs.  

CAR: Kuechly and Shaq/Davis.  Davis has suspension for a month. Shaq will be 3 down guy during that time, I assume.

CHI: Trevathan and Roquon.

CIN:  Hmmmmmmmm.  Vigil, Preston Brown, Burfict.  :shrug:

CLE:  Hey, CLE ran three LBs all 3 downs last year.  With the new coaches, it'll be interesting to see how that changes.  Collins/Kirksey/Schobert all played 3 downs (Burgess when Collins was hurt).  CLE is pursuing Mychal Kendricks as well, seems to me one of these LBs could see his value plummet really soon.  

DAL: Sean Lee.  Vander Esch and Jaylon competing for other 3 down spot.  

DEN: Marshall.  No one else is up for 3 down role.  

DET:  Jarrad Davis.  Christian Jones, Devon Kennard, Killebrew, Diggs, Reeves-Maybin........I dunno if anyone else is a 3 down guy.  

GB: Martinez and Ryan.  

HOU: McKinney and Cunningham.

IND: I'm not betting on anyone here.  

JAX:  Telvin and Jack.

KC:  Hitchens. Don't see another likely guy.

LAC:  Ummm, I guess I go with Jatavis. Perryman never has put it together, a small wager on a Jatavis comeback seems safer than betting on Perryman to stay healthy AND stop disappointing.  Wiuth Derwin/Addae/Kyzir they seems to have several guys that could be nickel LB over any of these other stiffs.  

LAR: Barron and.......Littleton

MIA: Raekwon and Kiko

MIN:  Kendricks/Barr  Potential Kendricks landing spot.

NE:  Van Noy.  Hightower for 3 weeks, then Elandon Roberts after Hightower is injured for the season.  

NO:  I don't have a strong feeling here.  Robertson and Te'o were 3 down guys, they add Demario and Anzalone to the mix.  Anyone??

NYG:  Ogletree and Goodson.  I think Goodson underrated this year.  

NYJ: Lee/Williamson

OAK:  Whitehead/Johnson Potential Kendricks landing spot.  

PHI:  Hicks/Bradham

PIT:  Vince Williams.  I think there will be a S playing nickel LB next to him.  If you believe in Bostic, rock on.  Braver than me.  

SEA:  Wagner/Wright

SF:  Foster.  Some might say Malcolm Smith.  Umm, I dunno about that.  Fred Warner looks sexy to me.  

TB: Kwon/Lavonte.

TEN: Evans/Woodyard.

WAS:  Zach Brown/Mason Foster (I guess? I don't trust Foster)

 

 

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Disagree on Reddick over Bynes as second guy. Also think Vander Esch will be on as 3 down guy. Maybe not first few weeks but early. Of course Lee gets hurt and than Smith gets his. I like Darius Leonard for Indy. May not be sure who but it could be very good. Maybe Morrison with edge right now. Does Miller not play all downs for Broncos. Kendricks with Chargers makes so much sense. I am not impressed with crew

Putting into tiers. No particular order

  1. Wagner, Alexander, Mosley, Ogletree, Edmunds, Jones,   Kuechley
  2. T. Smith, Barron, R. Smith, Kendrick’s, Z. Brown, Davis, Cunningham
  3. Jack, Evans, S. Lee, Vander Esch,  Martinez, Buccannon, David
  4. Trevathon, Collins, Alonso, McKinney, Williamson, McMillian, Foster
  5. Kirksey, Hitchens, Marshall, Hicks, Thompson, V. Williams, V. Miller
  6. Schobert,  D. Lee, Leonard, D. Davis, Foster, Perryman, Wright
  7. Morrison, Whitehead, Van Noy, J. Brown, Bynes, Ragland, P. Brown
  8. Littleton, Clowney, Vernon, Warner, Anzalone, Bradham, Goodson
  9. D. Johnson,  M. Smith, Ownsauser, Bostic, Hightower, Watt, Chubb
  10. Barr, Milano, Reddick, , Bradham, Ryan, Floyd, Davis

Future guys I like. O’Daniel, Burks,  White, Jewell, Jefferson, Baker,  Carter, Reeves-Maybin

In a league, I could live with any 4 guys from first 3 tiers and be very happy with my LB core.  Lots of good LB. One reason I don’t mind waiting but really jump in head first when I go. 

tier 4 has some nice names also. After this I question how good they will be. Tier 5 has guys with potential or previous usefulness but they don’t excite. Tier 9 is guys who might help now or could surprise still. 

 

Maybe i I should have put this is ADP thread

change with Kendrick’s signing. Feel really bad for Schobert and hurts Kirksey

Edited by Crippler
Kendrick’s signing
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On 5/31/2018 at 5:56 AM, Crippler said:

I will post mine

I can tell owners still get caught up in names. Maybe they drafted Mack as DE. Clowney, Judon, Chubb, Houston, Irvin and Watt take a huge nosedive unless really big play scoring. In 14 team league, they are #4 guys who are matchup guys only. In heavy tackle, they are pretty useless

Other reaches. Joe Schobert with Collins back makes him more of a 4 guy to me. Won’t see nearly as many snaps as Collins and Kirksey play more

i like Martinez but not at 6. In dynasty, he reminds me of Paul Worrilow. Probably good numbers but always looking around corner. Better 2 guy.

Jordan Hicks scares me coming off injury for sure. Again not sure on talent. 

Vince Williams. In that tier 3 but I prefer him as a 4. Not sure how Pitt LB shake out but be weary of Kendricks

christian Jones. He is more like 70 guy. He is FA in my home league where over 100 guys rostered. 

Underrated

Trevathon. He puts up numbers and even with Freeman, should put up numbers with Smith instead. I like him over quite a few guys in front. 

collins. 41st as bottom 3rd tier too low. Like him in tier 2. 

Foster. Now out of trouble, he should be in tier 2. Still worried about personality and desire

Macmillan. Not sure about injury but opp has him way higher.

Bynes. Not big on him but chance to be tier 4 LB there. Could do Dansby like numbers as Cards MLB has been good

 

i think overall, the top 2 tiers of LB is nice. Could live with combination of many guys

in my league, we start 56 guys and I think near end, it really drops off. Not sure I would be happy with Perryman, Denarrio Davis, Marshall and Whitehead as LB crew. So while you can wait, when the run gets going, don’t hesitate to go heavy as hate to start this. I know my home league, owners who waited seem to have some critical need cores. Puts them in a big hole. 

 

 

Anyway I could get the sheet or the picture shown in the tweet? It's not working for me

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On 5/28/2018 at 2:36 PM, 5-ish Finkle said:

Regardless of what Colbert may be saying in an OTA puff piece or two, I'd expect there is just about no way Pittsburgh is looking at Tyler Matakevich as an every down player.  I think they know exactly what they have in him already:  He's extremely limited in coverage, and has been taken advantage of in that regard in his limited playing time.  Yeah, he's good on teams and he plays his a$$ off, buuuut.....yeah.  Unless guys get hurt, I'd expect that he's exactly what he already is.....a backup ILB, mostly for first and second down work, who will be splitting snaps with someone (probably a couple someones).

I don't see Bostic as anything more than a 2-down guy either.  He's good against the run, suspect against the pass.  Great.   Stopping the run is useful, sure, but having that be your only trick in today's NFL pretty much makes a guy a dinosaur.  "Earl Holmes 2.0" doesn't exactly pump my 'nads. :)

Vince Williams is a pretty good interior blitzer, which is a nice thing to have and something the Steelers like to do a pretty decent bit, but is limited in coverage too (you can see a pattern forming here, I'm sure, and it's potentially a really big problem for the Steelers). 

Add on to all that the following two points: 1. The Steelers drafted a couple of bigger, faster safeties whose games are more akin to "athletic LBs" than "run-of-the-mill DBs", and 2. They've been playing a larger percentage of "subs as the base package" the last few years (particularly Nickel or some kind of 4-2-5 with Watt or Dupree/both lining up with hands on the ground).   Taking that in to account, we can likely start reading the tea leaves at least a bit.

What all those signs point to from my POV is that none of those three ILBs are likely to be 3-down players for the Steelers at all, unless Pittsburgh suffers a host of injuries.  They will rotate based on down/distance/etc.  Clear running situations probably will be Williams and one of Bostic/Matakevich.  If they continue to pursue running a lot of subs and don't feel like any of their ILBs are up to snuff in coverage I am not going to be surprised at all to see them running out those young Safeties as at least one of the LBs in those packages, likely with Williams as the other guy inside to be accounted for on the blitz, or with Watt moving toward the middle of the field standing up with Hargraves/et al coming in on the line.

The only Steeler LB who I think is guaranteed to be a 3-down guy right now is Watt, but given how he was utilized in the scheme (so far, anyway) he probably isn't very useful outside of big play scoring.  For the inside guys, if I had to own one then Williams is likely still the guy I'd target.  He will probably have the highest snap count among the inside guys (whatever that amounts to), most of them at the Buck, and can be a useful blitzer. 

 

Steelers ILB Tyler Matakevich is the early favorite to start opposite Vince Williams.

Matakevich repped with the starters throughout the offseason. An undersized college producer, Matakevich has been limited to special teams his first two seasons, but only needs to beat out Jon Bostic to replace Ryan Shazier. It's a potential weak spot in Pittsburgh's defense.

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On 5/29/2018 at 8:59 AM, Robar said:

One of VW, Mat, or Bostic will be playing every down or 95% of the downs.

And I'll respectfully disagree with that.  This just isn't very likely at all.  I doubt even Shazier would get that percentage of the snaps in a year of perfect health(he was on pace for just around 90% last year, same as the year before.  The only recent Steeler LB to get to the 95% plateau with any regularity was Timmons).  Williams himself was heavily involved a year ago, even before the Shazier injury, and still played only around 75% of the Steelers total defensive snaps.  Dupree was the LB who was on the field the most, actually (over 81%) but he also lined up at DE.

On 5/29/2018 at 8:59 AM, Robar said:

They aren't giving the dot to a player that leaves the field on 3rd, which is what you stated, not implied, above. 

Actually, they will...or at least, they have prior.  Last year in fact.  As I mentioned above, Williams was off the field for 25% of the Steelers total snaps on D for the year, and between 20-25% of the snaps each game after Shazier was shelved.  So, the Steelers absolutely were giving the dot to a player that was leaving the field a quarter of the snaps.  Not like there's only one helmet with a green dot on the team, you can have three, just only one on the field at a time.  While Shazier was healthy, this was basically a non-issue as he was only leaving the field around 10% of the time.  Once he went down though, they still cycled all the LBs including dot-wearer VW.  L.J. Fort was one of the other two guys with a dot, IIRC(Tomlin mentioned it in a presser or interview I think).  Not sure who the third was.  

Regardless, I'm sure they would prefer to have whomever is the playcaller out there as much as possible.  They will give the dot to the ILB likely to be on the field the most....and I already stated I think that looks to almost certainly be Williams unless injuries/something freaky happens.  The other inside guys are probably going to rotate depending on situation, regardless of which on of them "starts."  None are good enough in coverage, or as blitzers, to really be any kind of reliable option on third downs.  That's where the rookies/Burnett may enter the equation as Big Nickel options, etc.

 

10 hours ago, Robar said:

Steelers ILB Tyler Matakevich is the early favorite to start opposite Vince Williams.

Matakevich repped with the starters throughout the offseason. An undersized college producer, Matakevich has been limited to special teams his first two seasons, but only needs to beat out Jon Bostic to replace Ryan Shazier. It's a potential weak spot in Pittsburgh's defense.

One player isn't replacing Shazier, as I'd opine that the Steelers are well aware. And I would say there is no doubt it's a weakness on their D as of this date. :(

One of Bostic or Matakevich will, indeed, probably wind up being the 1st/2nd down guy next to Williams for most of the year.  The question that makes me ask is "what is that worth if they're playing maybe 550-600 snaps?"  and  "If both stay healthy, what if they wind up splitting those 600 snaps?  Are either worth toting around hoping one of the other gets injured?"  If a guy isn't seeing 700-ish snaps, I tend to want to look elsewhere.  Maybe that's just me.

Only inside guy on that team I'm willing to take a shot on is Williams, as I expect he is the most likely of their ILBs to get over 85% of the snaps.  I'm leaving the rest of the others to be someone else's headache.

Edited by 5-ish Finkle

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On 6/3/2018 at 7:42 AM, massraider said:

NO:  I don't have a strong feeling here.  Robertson and Te'o were 3 down guys, they add Demario and Anzalone to the mix.  Anyone?

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-orleans-saints/post/_/id/30136/qb-controversy-saints-d-loaded-after-adding-demario-davis

Quote

This season, the most likely setup is Davis at Mike, Klein at Sam and Anzalone at Will in base packages. But it's much harder to project the nickel lineup.

Perhaps it will be Klein at Mike and Davis at Will -- which we saw when they were on the field together in last week's minicamp. But the Saints love Anzalone's potential, and he might prove to be their best coverage linebacker. So that could make it an either-or decision between Davis and Klein on passing downs.

Not clear yet, but Robertson and Te'o didn't sound like they were in the mix much.

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