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matttyl

2018 3 down LBs, who ya got?

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3 hours ago, massraider said:

Back in the day, sure.  

The theory being, the SLB plays over the TE, gets blocked more, the WLB gets to flow to the ball, etc.  That's in a base 4-3, with the TE next to the RT.  That's an NFL that we don't see anymore.  Nickel offense is the base, running plays out of the shotgun are the norm, most running plays go up the gut, because it's too hard to get the corner anymore, everyone is too fast.  

Get the guys who don't leave the field, and get the actual better players.  I don't even consider who is SLB, or WLB, or whatever.  If Telvin Smith is the SLB, and Myles Jack is the WLB, and I think Telvin is the better player, that's the guy I want.  

So...is that Reddick?

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32 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

So...is that Reddick?

:lol:

Well, we're pretty sure it ain't Bynes.  

I'm pretty sure AZ will have the opportunity to make a lot of tackles.

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18 hours ago, massraider said:

:lol:

Well, we're pretty sure it ain't Bynes.  

I'm pretty sure AZ will have the opportunity to make a lot of tackles.

Well I would say we are pretty sure it SHOULDN’T be Bynes, but I read he was the one carrying the headset- makes me think he is the 3 down guy (probably along with Buccanon?)

 

Anyone watch AZ 1st team D in preaseason to see whonis on the field in nickel/dime?

 

Same goes for Cleveland- Schobert played 3 downs last year, but obviously he’s 3rd or 4th best coverage LB on his own team- I suspect it will be Collins, and then will it be Kirksey or Kendricks in Nickel?  Anyone watch them in preseason yet?

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IDP man Gary Davenport, who is a Cleveland homer, has stated about this being a hard situation to read. He mentioned he wouldn't be surprised if Jamie Collins is outright cut by the team in the podcast the other day. I never liked what Collins brought to a tackle heavy format anyways. He is a clear avoid for me. Kirksey is being drafted too high for my liking due to the fact he may not be a three down backer. Situation is crowded and too unclear at this point to use that kinda pick on Kirksey. If Schobert falls then he's the guy I will take a shot on. Kendrick's can be had for pennies so if you have the roster spot at the end of the draft then he might be worth a grab and stash (similar to Bostic last year). If his role is not favorable after 2-3 weeks you drop him for someone who is showing more upside.

Edited by BigAl21
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8 minutes ago, themojoworkin said:

Well I would say we are pretty sure it SHOULDN’T be Bynes, but I read he was the one carrying the headset- makes me think he is the 3 down guy (probably along with Buccanon?)

 

Anyone watch AZ 1st team D in preaseason to see whonis on the field in nickel/dime?

 

Same goes for Cleveland- Schobert played 3 downs last year, but obviously he’s 3rd or 4th best coverage LB on his own team- I suspect it will be Collins, and then will it be Kirksey or Kendricks in Nickel?  Anyone watch them in preseason yet?

Schobert is wearing the green dot.  Coaches consider him one of the smartest players they've ever been around.  I think they'll deal with his coverage issues to get everything else.  I think Collins is the one who gets his snaps cut back, but our DC has also said he intends to utilize base extensively.  It didn't work last year, so naturally he'll do it again.  But that's a different story.  As is Collins remaining on the team.  Which is also a different story.

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Wow- that is interesting with Schobert wearing the headset- that tells you everything you need to know.  If he keeps that role all year that makes him a crazy good value.

Edited by themojoworkin

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5 hours ago, themojoworkin said:

Well I would say we are pretty sure it SHOULDN’T be Bynes, but I read he was the one carrying the headset- makes me think he is the 3 down guy (probably along with Buccanon?)

 

Anyone watch AZ 1st team D in preaseason to see whonis on the field in nickel/dime?

 

Same goes for Cleveland- Schobert played 3 downs last year, but obviously he’s 3rd or 4th best coverage LB on his own team- I suspect it will be Collins, and then will it be Kirksey or Kendricks in Nickel?  Anyone watch them in preseason yet?

I watched both preseason games and Scooby Wright III is starting over Bynes.  He's way younger and was a high draft pick by Cleveland in 2016 but has been hurt for the most part.  They say he has very good cover skills too.  So, I think it will be Buchanon, Wright, and Reddick.  Question is, which guys is out on passing downs.  I'm guessing Reddick.  

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1 hour ago, winterrules03 said:

I watched both preseason games and Scooby Wright III is starting over Bynes.  He's way younger and was a high draft pick by Cleveland in 2016 but has been hurt for the most part.  They say he has very good cover skills too.  So, I think it will be Buchanon, Wright, and Reddick.  Question is, which guys is out on passing downs.  I'm guessing Reddick.  

Bynes has been hurt, so Wright may be starting until he is back, but at the beginning of training camp it was Bynes with the headset, suggesting he will be on the field full time.

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5 hours ago, winterrules03 said:

I watched both preseason games and Scooby Wright III is starting over Bynes.  He's way younger and was a high draft pick by Cleveland in 2016 but has been hurt for the most part.  They say he has very good cover skills too.  So, I think it will be Buchanon, Wright, and Reddick.  Question is, which guys is out on passing downs.  I'm guessing Reddick.  

I thought Scooby Wright was a 7th rounder though. Isn't he meant to be pretty.... unathletic? Slow? 

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12 hours ago, TheCenci said:

I thought Scooby Wright was a 7th rounder though. Isn't he meant to be pretty.... unathletic? Slow? 

Yes.

If Reddick can't beat out those names for passing down work, owners need to be real concerned about him.

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19 hours ago, winterrules03 said:

I watched both preseason games and Scooby Wright III is starting over Bynes.  He's way younger and was a high draft pick by Cleveland in 2016 but has been hurt for the most part.  They say he has very good cover skills too.  So, I think it will be Buchanon, Wright, and Reddick.  Question is, which guys is out on passing downs.  I'm guessing Reddick.  

 

17 hours ago, themojoworkin said:

Bynes has been hurt, so Wright may be starting until he is back, but at the beginning of training camp it was Bynes with the headset, suggesting he will be on the field full time.

 

14 hours ago, TheCenci said:

I thought Scooby Wright was a 7th rounder though. Isn't he meant to be pretty.... unathletic? Slow? 

 

1 hour ago, massraider said:

Yes.

If Reddick can't beat out those names for passing down work, owners need to be real concerned about him.

Scooby Wright was indeed a 7th.  He was also a tackle machine in college.  He may not be the quickest, but he's got great instincts and finds a way to get there.  I put him, Schobert, Hitchens, Kwiatkowski, Demario Davis, Preston Brown all in the same bucket - guys to collect as they are cheap to buy and good enough to earn a spot when there's no Bobby Wagner in front of them but not so good that teams are afraid to target them.  They can rack up tackles for a couple of years until the team decides to upgrade their position, which because of the devaluation of LB doesn't actually happen too often.

Reddick may be a gazelle but if he's not moving in the right direction early enough he's a sitting duck for blockers to find and RB's to juke.  That was a pick I never got behind and thankfully I never invested in him.

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On 8/22/2018 at 3:49 PM, themojoworkin said:

Bynes has been hurt, so Wright may be starting until he is back, but at the beginning of training camp it was Bynes with the headset, suggesting he will be on the field full time.

Good call on Bynes neck injury.  They mentioned Bynes in preseason game 2 but didn't say anything about his injury.  Should have checked that before recommending Wright.  I still believe Wright is the better move for the team but we will need to wait and see how it shakes out.  

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5 minutes ago, tkrull said:

Anyone concerned about Ogletree losing snaps?  He has looked bad in coverage this preseason.

Giants LB corps isn't the greatest.  He should be fine but I really like Goodsen at his price point much better than Ogletree and in the end I don't think they will be much different (assuming Goodsen stays healthy).

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16 hours ago, tkrull said:

Anyone concerned about Ogletree losing snaps?  He has looked bad in coverage this preseason.

The Giants 2017 lb corps welcomes this development with open arms

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9 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

The Giants 2017 lb corps welcomes this development with open arms

My IDP rosters do not, I likey 3 down guys the offense peppers with targets because they can't hold up in coverage.

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2 hours ago, DarkKnightsGuru said:

Anyone get a take on chargers situation with Brown and Perryman

My take is lots of uncertainty.  

Perryman seems to be best bet for a 3 down guy, with Jatavis Brown as next-most-likely.  Kyzir White, I drafted in the two leagues that I have drafted already, so I have been following him closely. He's been mixing with the starters for a while now, and has shown well in practice and games.  He's a concern for Perryman/Brown owners. He's also a smaller guy with a later round pedigree, so summer kudos are nice, but it's a big jump to 3 down work.  

Perryman I feel like has never turned into exactly the LB the Chargers were hoping he could be, and Jatavis had a disappointing year last year (which may or may not have been attributed to injury), so there's uncertainty with both of them.  

 

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1 hour ago, massraider said:

My take is lots of uncertainty.  

Perryman seems to be best bet for a 3 down guy, with Jatavis Brown as next-most-likely.  Kyzir White, I drafted in the two leagues that I have drafted already, so I have been following him closely. He's been mixing with the starters for a while now, and has shown well in practice and games.  He's a concern for Perryman/Brown owners. He's also a smaller guy with a later round pedigree, so summer kudos are nice, but it's a big jump to 3 down work.  

Perryman I feel like has never turned into exactly the LB the Chargers were hoping he could be, and Jatavis had a disappointing year last year (which may or may not have been attributed to injury), so there's uncertainty with both of them.  

So is brown a hold of dump as of now 

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2 hours ago, DarkKnightsGuru said:
3 hours ago, massraider said:

So is brown a hold of dump as of now 

For me, I'm dumping. I've been searching for a reason to hold on to him since last years train-wreck-of-a-season. Everything I've read is nothing but positive for White while Brown is an afterthought or not mentioned at all. I think Brown will play, but it's shaping up to be some sort of platoon as far as I can tell and at this point, I don't think he'll start. Below is an excerpt from a review of Browns' performance last night written by Michael Peterson of Bolts from the Blue where Brown is actually mentioned, and it's not pretty.

"While rookie linebackers Kyzir White and Uchenna Nwosu continue to impress, Jatavis Brown has done nothing to help his case. It’s one of the saddest realizations I’ve had to endure while covering the Chargers up to this point.

Against the Saints’, Brown was still in the game with the third-stringers as White and Nwosu got plenty of reps ahead of him. Even against the worst talent on the field, Brown missed tackle after tackle. His abysmal play was just one piece of a dumpster fire that was the defense in the fourth quarter.

When Hayes Pullard, the worst rated player by Pro Football Focus in 2017, is looking more explosive and overall like a better player than you are, something major has got to change. Here’s to hoping he fixes whatever happens to be broken."

You can read the whole thing here: https://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2018/8/26/17783538/chargers-saints-preseason-brees-rivers-kamara-ekeler (it's at the bottom of the page)

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Is this Skai Moore's middle position for the taking right now? Notables who went undrafted in my league over the weekend and who may hold so super late round value include;

Bostic (Pit)

Milano (Buf)

Ch. Jones (Det)

Hightower (NE)

T. Davis (Car)

T. Davis (Den)

S. Moore (Ind)

We roster about 70 LBs league wide. Obviously, some are shots in the dark and many (all) have there warts, but might lead to some production sooner than later.

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17 hours ago, Legalize Stickum said:

For me, I'm dumping. I've been searching for a reason to hold on to him since last years train-wreck-of-a-season. Everything I've read is nothing but positive for White while Brown is an afterthought or not mentioned at all. I think Brown will play, but it's shaping up to be some sort of platoon as far as I can tell and at this point, I don't think he'll start. Below is an excerpt from a review of Browns' performance last night written by Michael Peterson of Bolts from the Blue where Brown is actually mentioned, and it's not pretty.

"While rookie linebackers Kyzir White and Uchenna Nwosu continue to impress, Jatavis Brown has done nothing to help his case. It’s one of the saddest realizations I’ve had to endure while covering the Chargers up to this point.

Against the Saints’, Brown was still in the game with the third-stringers as White and Nwosu got plenty of reps ahead of him. Even against the worst talent on the field, Brown missed tackle after tackle. His abysmal play was just one piece of a dumpster fire that was the defense in the fourth quarter.

When Hayes Pullard, the worst rated player by Pro Football Focus in 2017, is looking more explosive and overall like a better player than you are, something major has got to change. Here’s to hoping he fixes whatever happens to be broken."

You can read the whole thing here: https://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2018/8/26/17783538/chargers-saints-preseason-brees-rivers-kamara-ekeler (it's at the bottom of the page)

certainly hope FBG is standing by their 81 solo tackle projection

 

33Jatavis BrownLAC/82416.081.039.02.01.50.86.01.00.

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Milano should be rostered due to the good stat crew and having a true young rookie at his side, especially if it's a balanced scoring (maybe not in bigplay leagues). Moore, Bostic and C.Jones would be on my watch list, the rest not so much.

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1 hour ago, BigAl21 said:

Is this Skai Moore's middle position for the taking right now? Notables who went undrafted in my league over the weekend and who may hold so super late round value include;

Bostic (Pit)

Milano (Buf)

Ch. Jones (Det)

Hightower (NE)

T. Davis (Car)

T. Davis (Den)

S. Moore (Ind)

We roster about 70 LBs league wide. Obviously, some are shots in the dark and many (all) have there warts, but might lead to some production sooner than later.

Moore is definitely worth a roster spot. The news is simply too far back on Walker to assume he'll definitely retake the MLB spot after missing weeks with a hamstring injury. It was noted he was expected to keep the starting gig despite the injury but none of the LBs on that roster are established guys that are immune to losing a starting gig when they miss time. 

Milano is a starting WLB on a team that is expected to be bad offensively and has a stat crew that is notorious for their generosity. He's definitely worth a roster spot. Hightower is tough to trust but he's the best LB the team has so banking on talent there is smart. I haven't watched any preseason and NE LBs are as tough to own as their RBs so probably not rushing to add him but if you have room it's not a bad add. 

Milano 

Moore

Hightower / Davis (get before he returns from Susp., at least)

Not adding any of the others....

 

4 minutes ago, KellysHeroes said:

certainly hope FBG is standing by their 81 solo tackle projection

 

33Jatavis BrownLAC/82416.081.039.02.01.50.86.01.00.

I don't see how they can stand by any projection when it's still not a guarantee that he's got that spot locked up. I wouldn't trust that based on recent news. Right now, I wouldn't be surprised to see a full-on LBBC with the rookies getting passing down work. Perryman is probably the only safe own and even that is only until his next injury. It reads like it's a waiting game, where the coaching staff is just hoping White & Nwosu can accelerate the learning curve enough to take over full time asap.

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43 minutes ago, Flying Elvis said:

Moore is definitely worth a roster spot. The news is simply too far back on Walker to assume he'll definitely retake the MLB spot after missing weeks with a hamstring injury. It was noted he was expected to keep the starting gig despite the injury but none of the LBs on that roster are established guys that are immune to losing a starting gig when they miss time. 

Milano is a starting WLB on a team that is expected to be bad offensively and has a stat crew that is notorious for their generosity. He's definitely worth a roster spot. Hightower is tough to trust but he's the best LB the team has so banking on talent there is smart. I haven't watched any preseason and NE LBs are as tough to own as their RBs so probably not rushing to add him but if you have room it's not a bad add. 

Milano 

Moore

Hightower / Davis (get before he returns from Susp., at least)

Not adding any of the others....

 

I don't see how they can stand by any projection when it's still not a guarantee that he's got that spot locked up. I wouldn't trust that based on recent news. Right now, I wouldn't be surprised to see a full-on LBBC with the rookies getting passing down work. Perryman is probably the only safe own and even that is only until his next injury. It reads like it's a waiting game, where the coaching staff is just hoping White & Nwosu can accelerate the learning curve enough to take over full time asap.

which Davis 

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7 minutes ago, DarkKnightsGuru said:

which Davis 

Thomas Davis is suspended. Shaq Thompson has yet to look the part of a 1st round pick but he'll have 4 games to show it this year. Keep an eye on what he's doing and be ready to add Davis coming off his suspension if Shaq doesn't really impress. 

 

My leagues roster ~100 LBs in one and ~140 in the other. I'd say only Milano and Moore would be roster-worthy in a league that typically carries 70, like BigAl21 posted.

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8 hours ago, cjv123 said:

Scooby Wright was cut.

Remember when this guy was a darling in IDP rookie drafts, despite being drafted #250 overall in 2016. Visions of Chris Borland or Zach Thomas with his instincts and college production. But 4.90 40 and other physical limitations just too much to overcome at the NFL level. 

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2 hours ago, onionsack said:

Remember when this guy was a darling in IDP rookie drafts, despite being drafted #250 overall in 2016. Visions of Chris Borland or Zach Thomas with his instincts and college production. But 4.90 40 and other physical limitations just too much to overcome at the NFL level. 

He was the guy who jumped in the pool, right?

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Does anyone know who is wearing the headset in NO?  I heard rumors it was T'eo, but I can't find that anywhere now- I imagine Demario Davis plays 3 downs (although I always have him as a bad coverage guy in my brain from early in his career, he must have improved), but it will be Klein vs T'eo for the 3 down snaps depending on who is wearing the headset- Anzalone seems to be the 4th LB and is practicing at multiple spots.  Poor Craig Robertson is 5th LB....any insight on who has been wearing the headset in NO would be appreciated

 

Here's a link from a fairly recent article-

 

https://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2018/8/21/17641498/demario-davis-could-be-missing-linebacker-link-saints-have-longed-for-aj-klein-manti-teo-mike-nolan

Edited by themojoworkin

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18 hours ago, themojoworkin said:

Does anyone know who is wearing the headset in NO?  I heard rumors it was T'eo, but I can't find that anywhere now- I imagine Demario Davis plays 3 downs (although I always have him as a bad coverage guy in my brain from early in his career, he must have improved), but it will be Klein vs T'eo for the 3 down snaps depending on who is wearing the headset- Anzalone seems to be the 4th LB and is practicing at multiple spots.  Poor Craig Robertson is 5th LB....any insight on who has been wearing the headset in NO would be appreciated

 

Here's a link from a fairly recent article-

 

https://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2018/8/21/17641498/demario-davis-could-be-missing-linebacker-link-saints-have-longed-for-aj-klein-manti-teo-mike-nolan

90% sure it is Davis. Anazalone can't be trusted yet. T'eo is a thumper but 2 downs. Klein isn't any good. Anzalone and Robertson aren't listed as starters yet.

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7 hours ago, saintfool said:

90% sure it is Davis. Anazalone can't be trusted yet. T'eo is a thumper but 2 downs. Klein isn't any good. Anzalone and Robertson aren't listed as starters yet.

Thanks, and this is appreciated, but really we need someone who is 100% sure and not someone's opinion.  I'm pretty sure it isn't Davis, but I must admit, I'm not sure either.  Would love some facts, rather than conjecture.  I read earlier during training camp it was Te'o, but Klein had it last season, AND they had been mixing matching their LB all offseason, so it really could be any of the 3 starters- Te'o, Davis or Klein.  But now I haven't seen anything about it for like 3 or 4 weeks.  It is clear that Davis will be one of the two playing in nickel, but my sense was that they didn't want him to wear the headset for some reason.  I guess we will find out Sunday!

Edited by themojoworkin

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5 hours ago, themojoworkin said:

Thanks, and this is appreciated, but really we need someone who is 100% sure and not someone's opinion.  I'm pretty sure it isn't Davis, but I must admit, I'm not sure either.  Would love some facts, rather than conjecture.  I read earlier during training camp it was Te'o, but Klein had it last season, AND they had been mixing matching their LB all offseason, so it really could be any of the 3 starters- Te'o, Davis or Klein.  But now I haven't seen anything about it for like 3 or 4 weeks.  It is clear that Davis will be one of the two playing in nickel, but my sense was that they didn't want him to wear the headset for some reason.  I guess we will find out Sunday!

Then you're going to have to come back Monday or perhaps find another forum where the NFL coaches publicly announce their intentions.

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10 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

Then you're going to have to come back Monday or perhaps find another forum where the NFL coaches publicly announce their intentions.

Well, you are probably right that we will not know in this particular situation until Monday, but most of the time we do know, and it isn't terribly hard to find out who has the headset if you do a little research, at least for most teams.  Just in this particular team, they are mixing and matching LBs.  

Earlier in this thread people were sure Skai Moore, Hassan Reddick and Scooby Wright were going to be 3 down LB, so it is always good to understand what is someone's OPINION, vs what we truly know as fact.  I guess that was the only point I was making.  It would be easy to read a post on here as fact and then act on it- cut someone useful for say Hassan Reddick- ideally we really should only post what we truly know.  I don't know, maybe Demario Davis will wear the headset, but I do know that he is the only one of the three starters that I HAVEN'T seen reported as wearing the headset, so take that for what you will.  And having said that, I think he is the only one to trust as far as being a 3 down LB in the group (my OPINION BTW).  

Josh Bynes had the headset for much of the preseason before he was hurt, I recently read that Buccanon had it, but I think it is safe to say one of those two will wear it and the other will also play nickel snaps, just to use an example.

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1 hour ago, Hankmoody said:

Then you're going to have to come back Monday or perhaps find another forum where the NFL coaches publicly announce their intentions.

:lol:

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9 hours ago, themojoworkin said:

Thanks, and this is appreciated, but really we need someone who is 100% sure and not someone's opinion.  I'm pretty sure it isn't Davis, but I must admit, I'm not sure either.  Would love some facts, rather than conjecture.  I read earlier during training camp it was Te'o, but Klein had it last season, AND they had been mixing matching their LB all offseason, so it really could be any of the 3 starters- Te'o, Davis or Klein.  But now I haven't seen anything about it for like 3 or 4 weeks.  It is clear that Davis will be one of the two playing in nickel, but my sense was that they didn't want him to wear the headset for some reason.  I guess we will find out Sunday!

perhaps i'm being too subtle in counsel? my point was right now a) Anzalone won't because he's not a starter or getting starter snaps (same w/ Robertson), b) T'eo won't because he's not playing more than 2 downs, and c) Klein won't because he's terrible by every metric. the saints LB situation is a bit opaque for most observers, which is why it's best avoided in the offseason. the only valuable (the collision between talent and opportunity) is Davis. they added him for a reason, after all, with Klein a known commodity and T'eo only getting more snaps down the stretch last year due to injury. robertson for whatever reason can't seem to catch a break and gets starter snaps only in place of the regularly injured LB.

if you're looking for really good value, as opposed to a bye week replacement level player, from this crew then right now there is only Davis. Even then I'm dubious because he's not going to get much beyond tackles.

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Patriots (Bentley 69% / Hightower 68% / Van Noy 66% / Roberts 27%)

Saints (Davis 100% / Anzalone 52% / Teo  41% / Klein 38%)

Titans (Woodyard 97% / Brown 71% / Compton 31%)

Browns (Schobert 100% / Kirksey 73% / Collins 61% / Avery 51%)

Chargers (Kyzir 79% / Perryman 73% / Jatavis 27%)

 

Edited by Young 8
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3 hours ago, Young 8 said:

Bengals (Schobert 100% / Kirksey 73% / Collins 61% / Avery 51%)

Not Bengals!

Good info/post, what is your source that's so readily available?

Edited by Hankmoody

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On 9/7/2018 at 8:19 AM, themojoworkin said:

Thanks, and this is appreciated, but really we need someone who is 100% sure and not someone's opinion.  I'm pretty sure it isn't Davis, but I must admit, I'm not sure either.  Would love some facts, rather than conjecture.  I read earlier during training camp it was Te'o, but Klein had it last season, AND they had been mixing matching their LB all offseason, so it really could be any of the 3 starters- Te'o, Davis or Klein.  But now I haven't seen anything about it for like 3 or 4 weeks.  It is clear that Davis will be one of the two playing in nickel, but my sense was that they didn't want him to wear the headset for some reason.  I guess we will find out Sunday!

 

On 9/7/2018 at 2:04 PM, Hankmoody said:

Then you're going to have to come back Monday or perhaps find another forum where the NFL coaches publicly announce their intentions.

As promised, here's your Monday 100% sure part

It's Davis

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4 hours ago, Young 8 said:

Bengals (Schobert 100% / Kirksey 73% / Collins 61% / Avery 51%)

 

Any reason for Kirksey coming off the field?

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6 minutes ago, Young 8 said:

Holy hell that is one long dive down the rabbit hole to get to the snap counts. lol.... thanks, though. I always wondered how snap counts seemed to exist but I could never find them until mid-week when published by other sites (generally in a more user friendly interface)

 

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