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BigSteelThrill

Ⅿ- Mandalorian Series!

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36 minutes ago, NewlyRetired said:

It is interesting to watch a giant like Disney proceed carefully where another giant like Amazon is throwing the kitchen sink at Lord of the Rings.

Disney worth about 93 billion.

Amazon worth about 993 billion.

 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-07-10/amazon-back-on-cusp-of-1-trillion-valuation-after-7-day-streak

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Edited by Endowed
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25 minutes ago, Endowed said:

Disney worth about 2 billion.

You missed a couple of digits on Disney :)

They just spent $71 billion to buy Fox's properties.

They now own Marvel, Pixar, ABC, Disneyland, Disney World, Lucas Films, 20th Century Fox, Hulu, Walt Disney Studios, the A&E networks, Disneyland Paris and Hong Kong, and ESPN along with a ton of other stuff.

 

They may not be as big as Amazon but Disney was enormous even before the fox deal.

Edited by NewlyRetired

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8 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

Yikes.  Someone at Disney didn't prepare well for the love of Yodaling. 

Ordered...arrives by May 27th...just in time!

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Some perspective on Licensing:

Sports Licensed business (all leagues + college) = roughly $25B

Disney Licensed business = $80B

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8 hours ago, bcdjr1 said:

They mention in the episode 4 that Cara Dune, Gina Carano's character, is an ex-shock trooper who fought with the Rebellion. And I believe she even references the Ewoks when talking about fighting the AT-ST. 

Pretty sure she explicitly said what she was doing “after Endor,” which is a major enough timing clue that you don’t need to be an ubernerd up to date on all the cartoons to work out.  If the out-of-work stormtroopers in ep 1 didn’t set it clearly, this ep should have removed all doubt.

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I think it's funny that people are upset episodes aren't an hour long.  The movies are 2 hours long and take years to make.  But you expect Disney to make an eight hour long season for a streaming service?  

Methinks some of the people's expectations are way too high.

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18 hours ago, RC94 said:

I like this show, but I'm starting to agree with some of the criticism.  I think there should be a lot more species/alien variety.  The 4th episode was particularly disappointing since that tribe they saved was a good opportunity to make them a new species, but instead they were all just human.  Also, while I like some of the wild west theme, I think it would be good to show some other settings, such as a major urban setting, instead of just these backwater nothing towns.  These planets are all part of a galaxy where interstellar travel is commonplace.  Not everything should be some crappy settlement.  I know he's trying to lay low, but plenty of people can disappear in a big, crowded urban setting.  Plus, there's a lot of potential story lines from various settings.  It's still a very good show IMO, but there's room for improvement.  We are 4 episodes in at this point so I thought some of these things would have been a part of it by now, especially the larger variety of aliens. 

They're going for the wild west or Kung Fu (TV) theme.  I wouldn't expect there to be too many urban settings.

Everyone's expectations might be a little high for this show.  I think they're going for an entertaining serial, not something like GoT or Lost.

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10 minutes ago, Buckychudd said:

They're going for the wild west or Kung Fu (TV) theme.  I wouldn't expect there to be too many urban settings.

Everyone's expectations might be a little high for this show.  I think they're going for an entertaining serial, not something like GoT or Lost.

Exactly.  I don't think there plan was to make this series as costly as a movie.  But they aren't exactly cutting corners, either.  I mean, for a TV show, the special effects are pretty stellar.  

If Disney+ ends up being hugely profitable over a long time, I could see the shows get bigger and bigger budgets, but for now, they still have their feelers out.  You don't want to spend millions of dollars on a show that no one signs up to watch.  I'm looking at you, CBS.

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1 hour ago, TheIronSheik said:

I think it's funny that people are upset episodes aren't an hour long.  The movies are 2 hours long and take years to make.  But you expect Disney to make an eight hour long season for a streaming service?  

Methinks some of the people's expectations are way too high.

With all the money Disney has, and this was basically the only show they had for launch in the hyped Marvel and Star Wars universe that they have the monopoly on,  I can see people being a little down on the production value and the length of the episodes for a non-comedy show.   

I think I said it, but to me this has a feel like they had an idea for a Madalorian/Bounty Hunter movie, but used it for this and needed a little filler to get to 8 episodes or 4-5 hours worth.  

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14 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Exactly.  I don't think there plan was to make this series as costly as a movie.  But they aren't exactly cutting corners, either.  I mean, for a TV show, the special effects are pretty stellar.  

If Disney+ ends up being hugely profitable over a long time, I could see the shows get bigger and bigger budgets, but for now, they still have their feelers out.  You don't want to spend millions of dollars on a show that no one signs up to watch.  I'm looking at you, CBS.

I get what you are saying - I am sure some of the cheapness was a calculated assessment since they didn't know 100% how many subscribers they would have for Disney+.     

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3 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

With all the money Disney has, and this was basically the only show they had for launch in the hyped Marvel and Star Wars universe that they have the monopoly on,  I can see people being a little down on the production value and the length of the episodes for a non-comedy show.   

I think I said it, but to me this has a feel like they had an idea for a Madalorian/Bounty Hunter movie, but used it for this and needed a little filler to get to 8 episodes or 4-5 hours worth.  

But I don't think the production value is that far down.  Episodes are around 36 minutes each.  That works out to almost 5 hours for the season, if my math is right and it's probably not.  That works out to about two movies.  TFA cost almost half a billion to make.  So to make a TV series that looks as good and has as many fun things as the movies would've cost them a billion dollars.  I mean, there's just no way that would ever happen.  

First off, they didn't know if people would subscribe.  Secondly, they didn't know if people would like a SW television show.  So it's a gamble.  Honestly, I think they went big for such a gamble.  And I'm sure we'll see season 2 be grander.  But these shows will never be the same as the movies.  Same for the upcoming Marvel movies.  Until these shows start bringing in more money than the movies, expect them to be slightly lower quality and filled with less "fun" new things.  

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4 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I get what you are saying - I am sure some of the cheapness was a calculated assessment since they didn't know 100% how many subscribers they would have for Disney+.     

I don't know if I'd call anything about this show cheap, GB.  I don't know if they'd ever release the figures (or if they already have), but I'm guessing it's probably one of the most expensive shows every made.  

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31 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

I don't know if I'd call anything about this show cheap, GB.  I don't know if they'd ever release the figures (or if they already have), but I'm guessing it's probably one of the most expensive shows every made.  

Keep in mind that I am a CGI grump, so I am guessing that plays into it. 

Just little things like I don't think baby Yoda looks great, some of the battle with the big rhino thingy, etc...  But I will concede that is me not liking CGI and not necessarily a function of the budget of the show.  Some of what I meant by cheapness is decision to keep the episodes short and so few.  Most shows non-comedy shows people are used to have the 45min-1hour length and have 10-13 episodes for a season.  

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37 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

But I don't think the production value is that far down.  Episodes are around 36 minutes each.  That works out to almost 5 hours for the season, if my math is right and it's probably not.  That works out to about two movies.  TFA cost almost half a billion to make.  So to make a TV series that looks as good and has as many fun things as the movies would've cost them a billion dollars.  I mean, there's just no way that would ever happen.  

First off, they didn't know if people would subscribe.  Secondly, they didn't know if people would like a SW television show.  So it's a gamble.  Honestly, I think they went big for such a gamble.  And I'm sure we'll see season 2 be grander.  But these shows will never be the same as the movies.  Same for the upcoming Marvel movies.  Until these shows start bringing in more money than the movies, expect them to be slightly lower quality and filled with less "fun" new things.  

As a huge fan of Buffy, I also need to keep in mind to pump the breaks a little about S1 of any show and give them the benefit of the doubt.  

I get the bolded and agree.  I don't think people are comparing it to the new movies, more what they are used to from the current wave of TV shows - and the bar is pretty damn high as far as that goes.  But yes, we need to keep in mind this is the first big show from a first timer in the streaming business, no matter what what type of money Disney has in general.  It's not like they are going to risk 100% of their budget on a handful of TV shows or anything - it's probably mostly going to be to keep the revenue stream and interest going for merchandise and tie-ins for the upcoming movies.  

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6 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Keep in mind that I am a CGI grump, so I am guessing that plays into it. 

Just little things like I don't think baby Yoda looks great, some of the battle with the big rhino thingy, etc...  But I will concede that is me not liking CGI and not necessarily a function of the budget of the show.  Some of what I meant by cheapness is decision to keep the episodes short and so few.  Most shows non-comedy shows people are used to have the 45min-1hour length and have 10-13 episodes for a season.  

Baby Yoda not being CGI was one of the best decisions they made on making this show.

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25 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Keep in mind that I am a CGI grump, so I am guessing that plays into it. 

Just little things like I don't think baby Yoda looks great, some of the battle with the big rhino thingy, etc...  But I will concede that is me not liking CGI and not necessarily a function of the budget of the show.  Some of what I meant by cheapness is decision to keep the episodes short and so few.  Most shows non-comedy shows people are used to have the 45min-1hour length and have 10-13 episodes for a season.  

This is no longer true.  It went from 24 eps a season.  Down to 12.  Then to 10.  And now most are coming out with 8 eps a season.  I hate it, personally, but that's the new norm.

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18 minutes ago, Bull Dozier said:

Baby Yoda not being CGI was one of the best decisions they made on making this show.

I will always give kudos when it's practical over CGI.  I am just surprised when IMO something looks worse than a similar things from many years ago.  This happens to me when I watch the original Jurassic Park and think about big budget movies now (even ones in that series).   Similar is happening with baby Yoda vs Yoda from Empire 30+ years ago.  Just looks weird and plastic-y to me.  

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2 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

This is no longer true.  It went from 24 eps a season.  Down to 12.  Then to 10.  And now most are coming out with 8 eps a season.  I hate it, personally, but that's the new norm.

The quality’s gotten better overall though. I’ll take a 10 episode breaking bad season any day over a 24 episode Lost season. 

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3 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

This is no longer true.  It went from 24 eps a season.  Down to 12.  Then to 10.  And now most are coming out with 8 eps a season.  I hate it, personally, but that's the new norm.

What is doing this? (I guess GOT did the 8 episode thing, but they were longer).   I thought most I watch are still sitting in that 10-13 episode range besides the weird way BBC does their shows.  

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16 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

What is doing this? (I guess GOT did the 8 episode thing, but they were longer).   I thought most I watch are still sitting in that 10-13 episode range besides the weird way BBC does their shows.  

Stranger Things comes to mind first, but I'm sure there are a bunch of others.

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2 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

Stranger Things comes to mind first, but I'm sure there are a bunch of others.

The Jack Ryan series on Amazon is also 8 episodes for each of the first two seasons.

For tight seasonal arc based shows like Ryan and Stranger Things, a shorter episode number is nice for story telling.

No arc has yet emerged on The Mandalorian, which in part is likely due to only being 30 minutes vs these other hour long shows so they can't tell as much of a story over only 4 episodes.

It may be that the story won't be season based on The Mandalorian.  Maybe the story emerges more over multiple seasons.  I did see a quote from one of the producers saying they intend to lay things out slowly and don't intend to give answers in any defined time period so we probably just need to wait it out.

Edited by NewlyRetired
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A question to bigger SW nerds than me:

At this point in the SW story, who owns the Darksaber?  Do you think we'll get to see it in this series?  Because I would love to see how they depict it in a real life show.

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 Bo-Katan had it last... no idea if she is still around :shrug:

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3 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Wtf is a Darksaber? 

So there was a Mandalorian who was also part of the Jedi order.  Which is odd, because these two groups pretty much are like oil and water.  In fact, most of the armor you see on the Mandalorians was developed to help them fight the Jedis.  But the Darksabre was a light saber that was created for this Mandalorian/Jedi.  It is black like it's void of color.  And it's shaped differently than the others.  It's pretty badass.  

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4 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

But I don't think the production value is that far down.  Episodes are around 36 minutes each.  That works out to almost 5 hours for the season, if my math is right and it's probably not.  That works out to about two movies.  TFA cost almost half a billion to make.  So to make a TV series that looks as good and has as many fun things as the movies would've cost them a billion dollars.  I mean, there's just no way that would ever happen.  

First off, they didn't know if people would subscribe.  Secondly, they didn't know if people would like a SW television show.  So it's a gamble.  Honestly, I think they went big for such a gamble.  And I'm sure we'll see season 2 be grander.  But these shows will never be the same as the movies.  Same for the upcoming Marvel movies.  Until these shows start bringing in more money than the movies, expect them to be slightly lower quality and filled with less "fun" new things.  

Comparing it to the movies is silly.  They're not paying movie actors, they have barely any (none?) recurring characters beyond the main, there aren't any space battles, any lightsaber duels that require complex choreography and effects, Jon Williams isn't doing the score, etc.

There are a gajillion shows that do hour long episodes, including basically every other non-animated show of this type, most of them with higher production values than this.  It doesn't cost a billion dollars.  I don't disagree that budget was a concern in the shorter episodes, but comparing them to the cost of a huge budget movie is a stretch.

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10 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Comparing it to the movies is silly.  They're not paying movie actors, they have barely any (none?) recurring characters beyond the main, there aren't any space battles, any lightsaber duels that require complex choreography and effects, Jon Williams isn't doing the score, etc.

There are a gajillion shows that do hour long episodes, including basically every other non-animated show of this type, most of them with higher production values than this.  It doesn't cost a billion dollars.  I don't disagree that budget was a concern in the shorter episodes, but comparing them to the cost of a huge budget movie is a stretch.

The cost per episode has been listed at $15 million an episode, which ties it with GoT and Big Little Lies as the most expensive show per episode ever made.  Westworld and a couple others are tied for second coming in just over $10 million an episode.  

So Disney has essentially just made the most expensive show ever made for TV on a platform that is unproven yet and for a series that no one knew if it would be liked or not.

So while it might be a stretch to compare it straight up against a film, my point remains:  How much money should they have spent on this series?  Because right now they have spent $120 million on this series.  That's about half the cost of an actual SW film.  A quarter of a billion dollars.  Just seems odd to think that's not good enough.

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6 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

The cost per episode has been listed at $15 million an episode, which ties it with GoT and Big Little Lies as the most expensive show per episode ever made.  Westworld and a couple others are tied for second coming in just over $10 million an episode.  

So Disney has essentially just made the most expensive show ever made for TV on a platform that is unproven yet and for a series that no one knew if it would be liked or not.

So while it might be a stretch to compare it straight up against a film, my point remains:  How much money should they have spent on this series?  Because right now they have spent $120 million on this series.  That's about half the cost of an actual SW film.  A quarter of a billion dollars.  Just seems odd to think that's not good enough.

I am skeptical of a lot of these numbers quoted by various sources.   Something as basic as The Morning Show, the new Apple show, is also supposedly clocking in at $15m* an episode.

Either production costs have SKYROCKETED in the past few years or people in charge are being a little loose with the numbers to help promote their products.

 

*https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/apples-bumpy-tv-launch-inside-tech-giants-impending-arrival-hollywood-1247577

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Wow.  If that 15M is accurate I am surprised by that.  Wtf is that money going then? Big little lies had big name actors.  GOT had huge sets and rising actor costs.  Not to mention both have a longer run time.  

 

Edited by KarmaPolice

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17 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Wow.  If that 15M is accurate I am surprised by that.  Wtf is that money going then? Big little lies had big name actors.  GOT had huge sets and rising actor costs.  Not to mention both have a longer run time.  

 

Good CGI is not cheap.  The special effects in this are up to par with the movies.  Not many other TV shows can make that claim.  If any.  

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5 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Keep in mind that I am a CGI grump, so I am guessing that plays into it. 

Just little things like I don't think baby Yoda looks great, some of the battle with the big rhino thingy, etc...  But I will concede that is me not liking CGI and not necessarily a function of the budget of the show.  Some of what I meant by cheapness is decision to keep the episodes short and so few.  Most shows non-comedy shows people are used to have the 45min-1hour length and have 10-13 episodes for a season.  

The rhino thing wasn't CGI.  That was played by Kirstie Alley.

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7 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

I think it's funny that people are upset episodes aren't an hour long.  The movies are 2 hours long and take years to make.  But you expect Disney to make an eight hour long season for a streaming service?  

Methinks some of the people's expectations are way too high.

I would take an hour of baby Yoda playing with a light saber in his crib. I'm easy

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47 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

The cost per episode has been listed at $15 million an episode, which ties it with GoT and Big Little Lies as the most expensive show per episode ever made.  Westworld and a couple others are tied for second coming in just over $10 million an episode.  

So Disney has essentially just made the most expensive show ever made for TV on a platform that is unproven yet and for a series that no one knew if it would be liked or not.

So while it might be a stretch to compare it straight up against a film, my point remains:  How much money should they have spent on this series?  Because right now they have spent $120 million on this series.  That's about half the cost of an actual SW film.  A quarter of a billion dollars.  Just seems odd to think that's not good enough.

Yeah I didn't intend to say that they should spend more, rather that the notion that budget would make it impossible for a show like this to be an hour long per episode when basically every other show like this is an hour long per episode was a stretch, as it was to compare it to the cost of X hours of Star Wars movies.

That said, man if they are really spending $15 million per episode on this they are getting ripped off by someone in the chain.  Game of Thrones I'm sure was paying exponentially more for their actors and the last few seasons had effects that blow this show out of the water.

 

4 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Good CGI is not cheap.  The special effects in this are up to par with the movies.  Not many other TV shows can make that claim.  If any.  

As I mentioned above, the special effects in the last few season of GoT make the effects in this show look like a 7th grade TV productions project.

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7 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

I think it's funny that people are upset episodes aren't an hour long.  The movies are 2 hours long and take years to make.  But you expect Disney to make an eight hour long season for a streaming service?  

Methinks some of the people's expectations are way too high.

Hey man, The Big Bang Theory cranked out 12 hours of content a year without any issues, and Law and Order Whatever does 25 hours easily. 

Edited by Walking Boot

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Disney has been investigated for cooking their books lately. I wouldn't trust anything they say when it comes to cost or earnings.

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43 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Yeah I didn't intend to say that they should spend more, rather that the notion that budget would make it impossible for a show like this to be an hour long per episode when basically every other show like this is an hour long per episode was a stretch, as it was to compare it to the cost of X hours of Star Wars movies.

That said, man if they are really spending $15 million per episode on this they are getting ripped off by someone in the chain.  Game of Thrones I'm sure was paying exponentially more for their actors and the last few seasons had effects that blow this show out of the water.

 

As I mentioned above, the special effects in the last few season of GoT make the effects in this show look like a 7th grade TV productions project.

I didn't mean it as an attack on you, GB.  I was just stating the numbers.  

Now, I didn't watch GoT but I did see an article that said the special effects for TM were hugely superior to GoT.  This was from an insider of the industry, but I can't verify the claim in anyway.  They did point to a scene in GoT that was supposed to be their biggest and best scene of the final season.  A war of some sort that people complained was too dark for anything to be seen.  Again, I don't know how much good CGI v. bad CGI costs.  And I didn't watch GoT to be able to judge.  Just going off what I read on this.

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9 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

I didn't mean it as an attack on you, GB.  I was just stating the numbers.  

Now, I didn't watch GoT but I did see an article that said the special effects for TM were hugely superior to GoT.  This was from an insider of the industry, but I can't verify the claim in anyway.  They did point to a scene in GoT that was supposed to be their biggest and best scene of the final season.  A war of some sort that people complained was too dark for anything to be seen.  Again, I don't know how much good CGI v. bad CGI costs.  And I didn't watch GoT to be able to judge.  Just going off what I read on this.

The dark scenes in GOT was a poor (imo) artistic choice, it had nothing to do with production costs.

Edited by NewlyRetired
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Just now, NewlyRetired said:

The dark scenes in GOT was a poor artistic choice (imo), it had nothing to do with production costs.

:yes:

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Not to mention that was only one of several major battles onscreen (the others of which weren't dark) that would have probably been a contender for best CGI of the year in a movie, much less against other TV shows.

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Baby Yoda is cool, but where are they going with it? With how slowly it ages, by the time it’s mature enough to fend for itself the Mandalorian will be long gone. It’s a decent sidekick, but it just leaves me wanting more.

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27 minutes ago, sports_fan said:

Baby Yoda is cool, but where are they going with it? With how slowly it ages, by the time it’s mature enough to fend for itself the Mandalorian will be long gone. It’s a decent sidekick, but it just leaves me wanting more.

Agreed, long term story line seems unlikely...good thing my plush toy will be here by May 27th!

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7 minutes ago, Scoresman said:

They can't kill off Baby Yoda.  The outcry would be immense. 

They won’t kill it. If they could leave it behind on a remote planet in the wilderness with a caring family that would be ideal.

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14 minutes ago, sports_fan said:

They won’t kill it. If they could leave it behind on a remote planet in the wilderness with a caring family that would be ideal.

It looks like baby yoda will be in season 2 according a spoiler Rian Johnson may have mistakenly given during an interview.

Edited by NewlyRetired
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1 hour ago, NewlyRetired said:

It looks like baby yoda will be in season 2 according a spoiler Rian Johnson may have mistakenly given during an interview.

What does he have to do with it?

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11 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

What does he have to do with it?

nothing.  He just gave the possible spoiler as he was on set visiting and mentioned seeing the puppet while looking around.

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