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2018 College Football Thread: Local man buys some teenage champions a 4 for 4 (1 Viewer)

I have read most of the Primer and skimmed the rest.  I see nothing in there of relevance to what the Meyers did or didn't do.  It is largely about guidelines for filing complaints under Title IX vs Title VII.  As far as the OSU HR policy, I am not sure of what you are showing me with this.  Perhaps you misunderstood me.  I am not questioning Zach Smith's behavior.  Clearly OSU does not want criminal employees and would have policies against domestic violence.  I am questioning how it is a Title IX violation to not report what Courtney Smith conveyed to them.  It very well could be a violation, I am just looking for some type of validation of that.  I am not so sure that some random tweet by Lori provides much confirmation.   If Zach Smith was abusing an OSU student or other employee, OK, I see how that would have Title IX ramifications.  
If Meyer (an OSU employee) is aware that Smith (another OSU employee) is still smacking his wife around and doesn't report it, it's a Title IX violation. The victim doesn't have to be a student or another employee, it doesn't have to have happened on campus. If an OSU employee commits an act of DV or sexual assault, all those who are aware of it MUST report it or be fired.

I don't know how much clearer I can make it.

 
If Meyer (an OSU employee) is aware that Smith (another OSU employee) is still smacking his wife around and doesn't report it, it's a Title IX violation. The victim doesn't have to be a student or another employee, it doesn't have to have happened on campus. If an OSU employee commits an act of DV or sexual assault, all those who are aware of it MUST report it or be fired.

I don't know how much clearer I can make it.
I am not asking for you to say it over and over.  I understand very clearly what you are saying.  I also understand what Lori was tweeting.  But neither you saying it, nor Lori tweeting it, satisfies the original question that I asked (quoted below for ease of reference).     It very well is covered by Title IX, but I have not been able to find direct evidence of that.  Do you have some Title IX expertise?     I saw nothing in that primer you posted earlier.  

As far as the Title IX violation argument, can someone please show me where this is covered in Title IX?  I am not trying to be difficult, I truly do not know.  These acts of abuse were not being carried out against a student or employee of the school.  

 
If they knew too, then yes. 
I would agree with this, but the premise of what whoknew posted earlier was that whomever was in charge of the failed system was culpable.  The implication was that those in charge should make it their business to know, and if they don't know that is part of the problem and should be held accountable.

 
Thank You.  The Purdue guide does explicitly state "relationship violence".   When I read the Title IX text and read the actual guide from the United States Department of Education, I do not see the same language.  The actual Title IX document is totally focused on discrimination, and the DOE document, including the mandatory reporting sections, is focused on sexual violence and sexual harassment.

 
Cristobal just landed another 4 star linebacker today out of Florida.  Not sure how good a coach he will be but damn can he recruit.  Currently a top 5 class and likely to finish in top 10, which would be the highest ever for Oregon.

 
Thank You.  The Purdue guide does explicitly state "relationship violence".   When I read the Title IX text and read the actual guide from the United States Department of Education, I do not see the same language.  The actual Title IX document is totally focused on discrimination, and the DOE document, including the mandatory reporting sections, is focused on sexual violence and sexual harassment.
Right. And that's the controversy about how it's been applied. It's purpose was to provide equal opportunities to women in education--that's it. How it got extended to covering violence by a university employee against his wife is a long and winding road.

 
Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy)

8/2/18, 8:12 PM

Ohio State Board of Trustees forms special, independent board working group related to investigation involving Urban Meyer. Group is current trustees Alex Fisher, Janet Porter, Alex Shumate; former Ohio House Speaker; former acting US Deputy Attorney for Southern District of Ohio

 
Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy)

8/2/18, 8:12 PM

Ohio State Board of Trustees forms special, independent board working group related to investigation involving Urban Meyer. Group is current trustees Alex Fisher, Janet Porter, Alex Shumate; former Ohio House Speaker; former acting US Deputy Attorney for Southern District of Ohio
Predicting they clear of him of any wrongdoing and recommend he gets a raise.

 
Sorta curious now how Ohio State fans conducted themselves in the JoePa/Sandusky/Penn St thread...
Ooof I don’t think we’re there yet.  Let’s wait til the big march of support in front of Urban’s house before we get there. At this point I think they’ve been pretty sensible from what I’ve seen. 

 
Sorta curious now how Ohio State fans conducted themselves in the JoePa/Sandusky/Penn St thread...
I never said a word in that thread but wait a minute here, seriously?  So now we're comparing one case of spousal abuse to God knows how many cases of child molestation that took place sometimes right on campus over decades that was systematically covered up by an entire institution?  Really, we're doing that here?  Wow.

 
I never said a word in that thread but wait a minute here, seriously?  So now we're comparing one case of spousal abuse to God knows how many cases of child molestation that took place sometimes right on campus over decades that was systematically covered up by an entire institution?  Really, we're doing that here?  Wow.
Settle down, Sullie.  It was just a question.

 
I would agree with this, but the premise of what whoknew posted earlier was that whomever was in charge of the failed system was culpable.  The implication was that those in charge should make it their business to know, and if they don't know that is part of the problem and should be held accountable.
That's pretty much what happened at Michigan State. So far the issue at Ohio State is just one victim, so unless there is evidence that the AD or president knew about this one victim, and did nothing, it's a bit much to fire numerous people up the chain for their failure to know about just one incident. Are they getting a pass? Yes. But it is possible that they could have a culture at the university that complies with Title IX, but experience one incident that they didn't know about. But if there were multiple incidents, like there were at MSU, then yes the higher ups don't get a pass, as such an environment clearly does not comply with Title IX and they hold the responsibility of knowing that. And when the president's response to the revelation of what was occurring was, "oops, our bad, it happened, and now lets put it behind us and move on", it's clearly a culture that doesn't want to focus on this issue at all. The MSU president sealed his fate with that ridiculous response. 

That all said, I wouldn't shed a tear if OSU's AD (Smith) or President (Drake) were canned. Especially Smith, as he has a laundry list of times he's had to replace coaches at inappropriate times due to scandals and what not. Jim O'Brien (basketball), Thad Matta (basketball), Jim Tressell (football), the volleyball coach (can't remember the name off the top of my head), and now Urban. I think this is the first one of the issue involving abuse, so this isn't a pattern of covering up abuse. It's a just a pattern that he sucks at his job as an AD. 

 
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The Audible podcast has McMurphy on for a lengthy interview. Really good stuff, especially Urban’s comments pointed at McMurphy during Big 10 media week saying “who would just make up a story about that.”

 
@Politician Spock one victim but multiple incidents while in Columbus.
It's possible the AD and president could go down too. In fact I think when Urban goes down, other coaches are going to go down with him. But from what we know right now, in regards to the AD and the president, this is one issue of a victim being covered up, even though the victim filed numerous police reports. But if they knew about her police reports, and did nothing, then they should be let go for being part of the cover up. 

 
Urban knew and he covered it up.  He will play dumb and the wife will lie to them to help him give plausible deniability.  She will likely have to get fired from her position at OSU because of title 9, but Urban will get out of it.  He may get a few games because he "should have been aware".

 
LAUNCH said:
Urban knew and he covered it up.  He will play dumb and the wife will lie to them to help him give plausible deniability.  She will likely have to get fired from her position at OSU because of title 9, but Urban will get out of it.  He may get a few games because he "should have been aware".
This is where I'd put my money if I were a gambling man

 
This could theoretically save him.  (Maybe a suspension for lying to the media).  It does however mean that someone above him along the proper channels could take the fall....or is willing to take the fall.

 
The whole situation, from the initial handling to the press conference to the apology, are all just so Urban.  As a UF alum, I can admit to celebrating his results on the field while strongly disliking his personality and how he ran the team.  Even in the championship years, the way he would treat reporters when they asked even the most mildly critical question, and then outright lie about things that were plainly visible on film, always struck me the wrong way.  Spurrier could certainly be condescending (to put it mildly), but Urban's attitude came off much worse.  Spurrier loved UF, not just the football team, while Urban seemed to view the university, the fans, and the beat reporters as outsiders he shouldn't be forced to tolerate.  His answer to BR about the 2015 incident displayed the same kind of disdain - he lied to the reporter because that's what he has always done.

The last straw for me was learning how Urban sided with Percy Harvin when Harvin attacked his WR coach in the locker room - not a dust-up but full-on choking and throwing him to the ground.  Then Urban leaves UF and describes the program as broken - no crap dude, you're the one who broke it.  The legend of Saint Tebow helped cover up a lot of other bad stuff going on in Gainesville at the time, at least until the Aaron Hernandez murders, but Urban let way too much go in the name of winning, all the while preaching his holier-than-thou family BS.

Dang I sound bitter...

 
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This could theoretically save him.  (Maybe a suspension for lying to the media).  It does however mean that someone above him along the proper channels could take the fall....or is willing to take the fall.
Exactly.  He reports directly to AD.  The steaming pile just got dropped on his yard.  

 
Exactly.  He reports directly to AD.  The steaming pile just got dropped on his yard.  
Meh. That's just a blanket denial issued at news dump time. It didn't come close to answering the important questions.  What did he know? When did he know it? Who exactly did he notify?

If anything it might be a bargaining chip in a negotiated buyout. 

 
Meh. That's just a blanket denial issued at news dump time. It didn't come close to answering the important questions.  What did he know? When did he know it? Who exactly did he notify?

If anything it might be a bargaining chip in a negotiated buyout. 
His contract requires him to report the issue in writing and who it has to go to. So if what he just said in his statement is true, the school should have the evidence that he did. Now it's in the school's court. 

 
His contract requires him to report the issue in writing and who it has to go to. So if what he just said in his statement is true, the school should have the evidence that he did. Now it's in the school's court. 
I still think that by not going into details, his lawyer is telling the school if you try to fire Urban with cause, he's taking everyone with him.

 
This could theoretically save him.  (Maybe a suspension for lying to the media).  It does however mean that someone above him along the proper channels could take the fall....or is willing to take the fall.
Why was the guy still on the staff until last week?

 
I would say for anyone that wants Meyer gone, it doesn’t help that Brett McMurphy is a self-congratulatory ##### bag who is virtue signaling like a clown.

 
Why was the guy still on the staff until last week?
 No doubt a good question. From what I’ve read though could be a couple things: one it always sounded like a very volatile relationship so there’s probably a lot of he said she said going on.  I’m still unsure what charges were actually filed and when. Was Smith ever actually charged and convicted?  Two, if anyone was going to get some rope and the benefit of the doubt, it would be Earl Bruce’s grandson. Urban loved Earl Bruce. Watch Zack Smith’s recent interview on ESPN tonight, he said Irban came up to him and asked him if he hit her and that he would be gone if he ever hit her. There’s a whole lot going on in the story.

 
 No doubt a good question. From what I’ve read though could be a couple things: one it always sounded like a very volatile relationship so there’s probably a lot of he said she said going on.  I’m still unsure what charges were actually filed and when. Was Smith ever actually charged and convicted?  Two, if anyone was going to get some rope and the benefit of the doubt, it would be Earl Bruce’s grandson. Urban loved Earl Bruce. Watch Zack Smith’s recent interview on ESPN tonight, he said Irban came up to him and asked him if he hit her and that he would be gone if he ever hit her. There’s a whole lot going on in the story.
I may be wrong because it’s second hand info but I’ve heard Urban never fired a coach. In a sport where there is no job stability that has to be attractive when he’s getting Larry Johnson and Greg Schiano.

 
Why was the guy still on the staff until last week?
Perhaps her side of the story doesn't hold water.

The fact that only the state can file or drop domestic abuse charges against someone makes her story hard to swallow given how much of her story is about why she dropped charges, didn't file charges, etc.... I think she might be living in her own little reality. 

 
I may be wrong because it’s second hand info but I’ve heard Urban never fired a coach. In a sport where there is no job stability that has to be attractive when he’s getting Larry Johnson and Greg Schiano.
RIght, he just lets his coaches get choked out by star players.  See Billy Gonzales leaving UF for LSU.

 
RIght, he just lets his coaches get choked out by star players.  See Billy Gonzales leaving UF for LSU.
You Florida fans sure are sour. I doubt you were crying over your titles. Urban didn’t hire Will Muschamp and you can say the cupboard was bare but Muschamp was also an awful coach and equally awful recruiter. 

 
You Florida fans sure are sour. I doubt you were crying over your titles. Urban didn’t hire Will Muschamp and you can say the cupboard was bare but Muschamp was also an awful coach and equally awful recruiter. 
I wasn't crying over the titles.  I also never liked Meyer (see earlier post) and you won't hear me defending Muschamp as a head coach.  Regardless, I'll always have 41-14.

 

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