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Terrell Owens to Skip HOF Induction Ceremony

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4 hours ago, Fireinside said:

Yeah, I get it, you want your kids to have good role models, but fu## me if my kids turn out to be a-holes because of some NFL dude is selfloving idiot.

:lmao: :goodposting:

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T.O. was a GREAT wr him skipping the HOF ceremony isn't a big deal..he didn't want to share the dais with Randy Moss, it's like 2 girls going to a party and finding out there's another girl wearing the same dress - someone HAS to go home and change.remember, WRs are divas..

as Chaka said or implied, T.O. was heroic in his SB run, sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber to heal faster, laying it all out there in the game..had the Eagles won that SB, T.O. most DEFINITELY would've won the MVP , and the we'd all be talking about how great that effort was, that thru all the other antics, he still showed up in the biggest game and crushed it.and the writers would be gushing all over him forever.

even in the loss they should still be gushing, it was one of the best performances by a WR in a SB, ever. give the guy some credit.

but to the point about the writers - who are the primadonnas here the players or the writers?! who dangles a carrot over people's heads in baseball HOF voting? the writers.why are they given the votes in the first place, because joe schmo is a beat writer for the daily news covering the Jets it makes him worthy of an HOF vote? what about the fans the ones who watch the games, who attend the games? shouldn't their voices mean more? the writers act like a holier-than-thou sports version of the Academy Award voters..again, self-indulged people making statements with their votes..

I'm not saying T.O.'s antics are good, but maybe,just maybe, he has a point about these 'writers' - in many ways they're all tools like CNN ( fake news) reporters at a WH press conference. maybe at an early stage of his NFL career he was treated poorly/unfairly by a writer, and he just decided they're all like that..

the HOF isn't about teammates and lockerroom presence, it's about how you played the game.and T.O. absolutely delivered.

the writers are the bad folks here, not T.O. take your 'we're not going to vote you in on the first try just because we dont like you' antics and go pound salt.

and can anyone tell me why Gene Wilder didn't win an Oscar for Willy Wonka? or M. Keaton for Beetlejuice ( I've seen this movie about 30 times in the past month my kids love it.everytime I see it I see just how brilliant Keaton was in this role! he also crushed it in Johnny Dangerously). 

 

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There's a universal law above and beyond the HOF by-laws: if you conduct yourself with humility and respect, you'll get a lot farther in life. Others will more willingly go to bat for you and help you out. Opposite personalities have opposite results.

I'm very glad Terrell Owens' 15 minutes has passed. I will no longer see his face in the paper or have to hear him talk. Here we have a guy given a distinct honor for which he should appreciate and be thankful. Nope, we have to listen to him ##### about it. But no more. You can leave now T.O.

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2 hours ago, Snotbubbles said:

Terrell Owens played for 5 teams (SFO, DAL, PHI, BUF, CIN).

Randy Moss played for 5 teams (MIN, NEW, OAK, SFO, TEN).

Seems like both guys made the same amount of stops.  

FTR, I wouldn't have been at all disappointed to see Moss have to wait an extra year or two.

The bottom line is that there is no cogent argument to make that the HOF is for on field production only. Because of that, T.O. really has no worthwhile argument here, and his reaction to it all does nothing but reinforce the very thought process that caused him to wait that extra year or two. I understand the argument folks have made in here, but the simple truth is that the HOF has left it open a little, and off the field stuff does count for at least a little bit. Clearly, it doesn't count for all that much, but it does count.

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10 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

No, and I didn't say I did, so not sure what the point was of the rest of your post.  T.O. worked hard. Congratulations. So do most NFL players. You don't make it to and survive in the NFL by half-assing it. 

The only point was to agree that while technically hyperbolic to say he was the hardest working guy on every team; the counter point of "you can't possibly know that' is not a very strong stand alone counterpoint.  I understand the language issue I just thought you had an evidence based counter point that would suggest that TO may not have been the hardest working guy on every team.

 

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23 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

There's a universal law above and beyond the HOF by-laws: if you conduct yourself with humility and respect, you'll get a lot farther in life. Others will more willingly go to bat for you and help you out. Opposite personalities have opposite results.

I don't think that is true for a second and I am a little surprised that others believe it.  Too much evidence to the contrary.

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2 minutes ago, Chaka said:

I don't think that is true for a second and I am a little surprised that others believe it.  Too much evidence to the contrary.

Well like people get treated better than disliked people. It's not surprising, and I see evidence of it everyday. 

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I loved in his Chattanooga speech, where T.O. was describing himself as being "a man of" in many different characteristics (discipline, courage, etc.), he also described himself as a man of humility. Just a little bit ironic. "I LOVE ME SOME ME!!"

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32 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

Well like people get treated better than disliked people. It's not surprising, and I see evidence of it everyday. 

Again, I'm not sure if that's true. There is a mega-###$-ton of evidence to the contrary that we all see everyday.

Leaving those examples aside for the moment to focus on the more mundane.

This may seem odd or counterintuitive but there are actual published studies that demonstrate that people in the service industry who are rude or mean to their customers get tipped better.

I think the humility narrative is just something that we feed our children to make them behave a little bit better so we can have quiet.

Edited by Chaka

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12 minutes ago, Chaka said:

Again, I'm not sure if that's true. There is a mega-###$-ton of evidence to the contrary that we all see everyday.

Leaving those examples aside for the moment to focus on the more mundane.

This may seem odd or counterintuitive but there are actual published studies that demonstrate that waiters and waitresses who are mean to their customers get tipped better.

I think the humility narrative is just something that we feed our children to make them behave a little bit better so we can have quiet.

Well I'm not getting dragged into this one.

I can only refer to one example, the topic at hand. T.O. was "punished" for his lack of humility, narcissism, and lack of respect, all of which made him an extremely unlikable person. Apparently even more unlikable than Randy Moss. 

Edited by cloppbeast

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2 hours ago, renesauz said:

FTR, I wouldn't have been at all disappointed to see Moss have to wait an extra year or two.

The bottom line is that there is no cogent argument to make that the HOF is for on field production only. Because of that, T.O. really has no worthwhile argument here, and his reaction to it all does nothing but reinforce the very thought process that caused him to wait that extra year or two. I understand the argument folks have made in here, but the simple truth is that the HOF has left it open a little, and off the field stuff does count for at least a little bit. Clearly, it doesn't count for all that much, but it does count.

How can you have such a position when Ray Lewis, a guy who plead guilty to obstruction of justice in a double homicide was a first ballot HOFer?  Obviously, the off the field issues weren't relevant in his case.  Or another first ballot HOFer in Randy Moss, who quit on the field for his team.  Double standards much?

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2 hours ago, Snotbubbles said:

How can you have such a position when Ray Lewis, a guy who plead guilty to obstruction of justice in a double homicide was a first ballot HOFer?  Obviously, the off the field issues weren't relevant in his case.  Or another first ballot HOFer in Randy Moss, who quit on the field for his team.  Double standards much?

But Ray Lewis found God and Randy Moss is a smooth cat on TV now so it's all good. For the life of me don't understand why T.O. is the magnet for hate while people worship the ground Ray Lewis walks on.  Disgusting really how our priorities are messed up.  Yes TO was extremely selfish and a bad teammate but did was he ever in trouble with the law?  Did he ever quit on anybody? 

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9 minutes ago, Pipes said:

But Ray Lewis found God and Randy Moss is a smooth cat on TV now so it's all good. For the life of me don't understand why T.O. is the magnet for hate while people worship the ground Ray Lewis walks on.  Disgusting really how our priorities are messed up.  Yes TO was extremely selfish and a bad teammate but did was he ever in trouble with the law?  Did he ever quit on anybody? 

Y'know I am not sure I am even willing to say that with confidence.

I am sure there are examples of teammates calling him out but I haven't found them. Maybe I am using the wrong search terms.

OTOH these were pretty easy to find by searching "Terrell Owens work ethic".

But he was very respectful. He worked as hard as Jerry Rice — I’ve never said that about anyone else by the way. He was willing to stand next to Jerry and work, and I’ve never seen that before. So to me, what I saw were his physical abilities were incredible. The work ethic, incredible, and a very respectful guy.” ~ Steve Young (2017)

He's always going to give one hundred percent and he was very productive on the football field. ~Jerry Rice

When Terrell Owens is one that piece of grass, it's amazing, the effort and greatness that he has in him. You cannot say anything negative about Terrell Owens on the field. ~ Steve Young (2013)

Regardless of what else goes on, when he comes on the football field, it's all business and all work. He's one of the best professionals at that position. And to have him at practice every day and to be able to pick his brain, it did nothing but make us better. ~ Greg Lewis

He will be fine, he’s a competitor, no one wants to win like he does, and the only thing you can blame him for is wanting to win, and so I guess you can blame me for that too. I don’t know, I never understood all the hype and controversy about him being a distraction, because he’s been a great teammate... ~ Jay Ratliff

I really appreciated what Terrell brought to the table. He brought a lot of experience, and his work ethic was tremendous. ~ Ryan Fitzpatrick

This guy was great. He did everything we wanted him to do. He practiced hard, he studied hard, he asked questions, he worked hard in the games. He did everything. ~ Pete Carroll

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5 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

There's a universal law above and beyond the HOF by-laws: if you conduct yourself with humility and respect, you'll get a lot farther in life. Others will more willingly go to bat for you and help you out. Opposite personalities have opposite results.

I'm very glad Terrell Owens' 15 minutes has passed. I will no longer see his face in the paper or have to hear him talk. Here we have a guy given a distinct honor for which he should appreciate and be thankful. Nope, we have to listen to him ##### about it. But no more. You can leave now T.O.

Well. The good lords knows that if there is one man the graces the hallowed ground of Canton, Oh with humility and respect, it’s Ray Lewis 

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2 hours ago, Snotbubbles said:

How can you have such a position when Ray Lewis, a guy who plead guilty to obstruction of justice in a double homicide was a first ballot HOFer?  Obviously, the off the field issues weren't relevant in his case.  Or another first ballot HOFer in Randy Moss, who quit on the field for his team.  Double standards much?

Because he’s a narrow-minded fool that only wants to find problems that suit his agenda.

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On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 11:19 AM, Chaka said:

That simply is not true. How is playing in the Super Bowl six weeks after breaking a leg anything other than team first?  And that is just one example, he was fearless over the middle of the field.   Me first guys don't expose themselves to that.

I know the whole Garcia thing, which was pretty darn horrible by TO but what teammates ever said they didn't want to play with him? I honestly don't know if it happened but I have no recollection of teammates calling him mouth.

Ownership didn't like him because he wanted to get paid. Until ownership starts offering fully guaranteed contracts pegged to the salary cap I won't begrudge any player who fights for fair compensation.

Manning would have loved playing with TO.  TO worked exceedingly hard at his craft, he practiced at 100% and played at 100%.  Manning would have loved that ####.

TO gets a bad rap for being a showboat, a loudmouth and, at times, a boor (btw all things I didn't like about him). 

Randy Moss literally admitted to quitting on his team.  He bounced around to five teams and he gets a pass.

Ray Lewis is literally protecting the identity of a murderer (possibly himself) and he gets a pass.

TO was the hardest working man on every team he played for (some may have worked as hard as but none worked harder) but because he was loud he doesn't get a pass.

 

Not from me they don't.

 

Anyhow, I always thought the proper criteria for admittance into the HOF as whether or not one could tell the story of Football without the person, if one could not then that person needed to be admitted.  Owens was never a champion and never an MVP.  He was a talented sideshow in an age where his talent was statistically rewarded and some think that anomaly, having a good to great career as stats exploded, makes him the best, or one of the best of all time.  I disagree.  He is not the story of football, he is at best a footnote to players thinking they are bigger than the game.

Now Jerry Kramer, try telling the story of football without him.  Try explaining 5 championships in 7 years without explaining how a mobile guard, leading a sweep, one named Kramer, was out in front.  Try explaining the Ice Bowl, ,maybe the most iconic game of all time without explaining Kramer's role.  Try finding a picture of Lombardi being carried off of the field, in victory without it being on Kramer's shoulders.  Find a picture of Lombardi's casket being carried without Kramer being a pall bearer.  List the 50 greatest books on football without Kramer's Instant Replay being among them.   Look into charitable work for players by former players and tell me Kramer did not have an impact.    Show me the iconic example of waiting patiently and respectfully for admittance into the HOF with an excellent case and I'll show you Kramer, not Owens.  Kramer is the example of the epitome of the league and Owens the poster child for all that is wrong with the league and all that will lead to its demise.

Nope, owns is an ### clown, a talented one, but an ### clown wholly incidental to the story of football.  Kramer is football.  

As for Moss he was a talented ###.  he should be in.  the first ballot versus third ballot thing is not really my issue, but I can see making him wait since he did disrespect the game by quitting on plays and his team mates.  As for Lewis I think the HOF should reserve the right to not honor men not worthy of honor regardless of their accomplishments on the field.

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2 hours ago, Chaka said:

Y'know I am not sure I am even willing to say that with confidence.

I am sure there are examples of teammates calling him out but I haven't found them. Maybe I am using the wrong search terms.

OTOH these were pretty easy to find by searching "Terrell Owens work ethic".

But he was very respectful. He worked as hard as Jerry Rice — I’ve never said that about anyone else by the way. He was willing to stand next to Jerry and work, and I’ve never seen that before. So to me, what I saw were his physical abilities were incredible. The work ethic, incredible, and a very respectful guy.” ~ Steve Young (2017)

He's always going to give one hundred percent and he was very productive on the football field. ~Jerry Rice

When Terrell Owens is one that piece of grass, it's amazing, the effort and greatness that he has in him. You cannot say anything negative about Terrell Owens on the field. ~ Steve Young (2013)

Regardless of what else goes on, when he comes on the football field, it's all business and all work. He's one of the best professionals at that position. And to have him at practice every day and to be able to pick his brain, it did nothing but make us better. ~ Greg Lewis

He will be fine, he’s a competitor, no one wants to win like he does, and the only thing you can blame him for is wanting to win, and so I guess you can blame me for that too. I don’t know, I never understood all the hype and controversy about him being a distraction, because he’s been a great teammate... ~ Jay Ratliff

I really appreciated what Terrell brought to the table. He brought a lot of experience, and his work ethic was tremendous. ~ Ryan Fitzpatrick

This guy was great. He did everything we wanted him to do. He practiced hard, he studied hard, he asked questions, he worked hard in the games. He did everything. ~ Pete Carroll

It's interesting how many of these quotes speak very specifically about T.O on the field, and how few refer to ANYTHING off it. The few that do refer to anything off the field, are very narrow and still focused on his training, not his team chemistry or personal life.

Again, I get how folks feel there's a double standard here...there's a good argument to be made that if T.O. shouldn't get in first ballot, neither should people like Lewis or MOss. This is an argument I can buy into. That does NOTHING to change the fact that T.O. has had, and continues to have, an abrasive personality, a me-first prima-donna attitude that has turned a lot of folks off. More importantly, his entire statement in this case is based on a false premise and his method of making that case serves better to re-enforce what made people dislike him to begin with.

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6 hours ago, Snotbubbles said:

How can you have such a position when Ray Lewis, a guy who plead guilty to obstruction of justice in a double homicide was a first ballot HOFer?  Obviously, the off the field issues weren't relevant in his case.  Or another first ballot HOFer in Randy Moss, who quit on the field for his team.  Double standards much?

There are over 300 members in the HOF I believe. Everyone keeps falling back on two exceptions like it's some large sample size. So there are two exceptions. That's 2/3rds of 1%. It isn't like first-ballot dooshes are flooding through the door.

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3 hours ago, renesauz said:

It's interesting how many of these quotes speak very specifically about T.O on the field, and how few refer to ANYTHING off it. The few that do refer to anything off the field, are very narrow and still focused on his training, not his team chemistry or personal life.

Again, I get how folks feel there's a double standard here...there's a good argument to be made that if T.O. shouldn't get in first ballot, neither should people like Lewis or MOss. This is an argument I can buy into. That does NOTHING to change the fact that T.O. has had, and continues to have, an abrasive personality, a me-first prima-donna attitude that has turned a lot of folks off. More importantly, his entire statement in this case is based on a false premise and his method of making that case serves better to re-enforce what made people dislike him to begin with.

There was a lot more to the comments but I was focused on work ethic when I found them, didn't want to go back.

Lewis & Ratliff specifically call him a good teammate in the quotes above.

And, again, I don't think the story is as simple as "me-first" when he clearly also seemed to be "win at all costs".  I'm not sure those two gel.

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2 hours ago, DallasDMac said:

There are over 300 members in the HOF I believe. Everyone keeps falling back on two exceptions like it's some large sample size. So there are two exceptions. That's 2/3rds of 1%. It isn't like first-ballot dooshes are flooding through the door.

Lewis and Moss are being focused on because they are in the same class.

I am sure if we look at those other 300 members we will find plenty of off field incidents.

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On 8/7/2018 at 3:04 PM, Epic Problem said:

Well. The good lords knows that if there is one man the graces the hallowed ground of Canton, Oh with humility and respect, it’s Ray Lewis 

Its not a matter of passing judgement, but of likability, and Ray Lewis has more of it than T.O.

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