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Bill Maher would rather a recession than a reelection for Trump (1 Viewer)

S

Smack Tripper

Footballguy
I've been a fan of Maher's for 20 plus years, going back to Comedy Central Politically Incorrect, I never thought he should have been fired from that show post 9/11.  Don't agree with all but dare say I can agree with most.  

But these comments really leave me at a loss.  I didn't vote for Trump, but I've been waiting for the shoe to drop with him and I feel like at worst we're in a "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" mode.  For this guy, a millionaire presumably many times over, to root for the economy to crash out of some personal displeasure, well its quite off putting to me.

Moreover, its messaging that shows you why he got elected and why he's bound for reelection if this is the take.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Seems rational if you believe the damage caused by a recession would be less than the damage caused by another four years of Trump.
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And that was Bill's point. I can certainly see disagreeing with it but it is more than just being mean spirited over some personal displeasure as indicated by the OP.  The point is that a recession is preferable to a continued and rapid erosion of western democracy. 

 
kwille said:
The point is that a recession is preferable to a continued and rapid erosion of western democracy. 
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And an invasion of North Korea, in which millions die, is preferable to North Korea launching an ICBM with a thermonuclear bomb against us some time in the future. But even better than either of those two options is some kind of peace deal. 

We don’t need a recession to beat Trump. We don’t need more bad things to happen to beat Trump. 

 
kwille said:
And that was Bill's point. I can certainly see disagreeing with it but it is more than just being mean spirited over some personal displeasure as indicated by the OP.  The point is that a recession is preferable to a continued and rapid erosion of western democracy. 
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What do you think Trump has done thats more dangerous than Obama did in terms of civil liberties in this regard?  Or his escalation of wars globally when he was elected with a mandate to scale back military involvement.  I'm really at a loss here in terms of true threats to democracy.  Maher gave Obama one million dollars.  

I get that Trump is no prize, and look, fundamentally, this is idle chatter on Maher's part.  But it does seem like it would be something the Trump folks could rally around so its counterproductive for a guy who would not feel the impact of a recession to wish it upon the millions of people who will

 
“I feel like the bottom has to fall out at some point—and by the way, I’m hoping for it, because I think one way you get rid of Trump is a crashing economy. So please, bring on the recession. Sorry if that hurts people, but it’s either root for a recession or you lose your democracy.”
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Link

- The guy is a comedian who thrives on provocative commentary. There will always be someone who will say something publicly that any side can take and post up as representative of what the opposition thinks and run against that. Maher 2001, Griffin, etc.

However if you take the argument seriously - your economy or your democracy? - it gets tougher. I doubt you'll take that one on because it's a false premise (IMO a wrecked economy could further denigrate our democracy), but if you do take it straight up how would you answer?

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Link

- The guy is a comedian who thrives on provocative commentary. There will always be someone who will say something publicly that any side can take and post up as representative of what the opposition thinks and run against that. Maher 2001, Griffin, etc.

However if you take the argument seriously - your economy or your democracy? - it gets tougher. I doubt you'll take that one on because it's a false premise (IMO a wrecked economy could further denigrate our democracy), but if you do take it straight up how would you answer?
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And to be clear, I'm not calling for action or sanction in any way, I'm not even saying "I'll never watch him again"

Its just more like, huh, thats where we are at.  

But I don't see him going for the bit or humor in those comments, myself, or I wouldn't have thought twice to create this. 

 
Smack Tripper said:
For this guy, a millionaire presumably many times over, to root for the economy to crash out of some personal displeasure, well its quite off putting to me.
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I don’t know what Maher said, but the characterization of it in the thread title is different from the characterization in the body of your post.

I also would prefer a recession (depending on the severity and duration) to another term of Trump. But I am not rooting for the economy to crash. I want the economy to be awesome. But I also recognize that other things besides the economy are important too, and if necessary, I’m willing to trade off a bit of economic prosperity in order to reduce the chance of nuclear war, for example, if those are the options.

 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
I don’t know what Maher said, but the characterization of it in the thread title is different from the characterization in the body of your post.

I also would prefer a recession (depending on the severity and duration) to another term of Trump. But I am not rooting for the economy to crash. I want the economy to be awesome. But I also recognize that other things besides the economy are also important, and if necessary, I’m willing to trade off a bit of economic prosperity in order to reduce the chance of nuclear war, for example, if those are the options.
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this is inside of a , for lack of a better term, partisan clip, but you can see his words for yourself and judge here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgA43xmuw54

I frankly think these fears of trump dropping nukes is irrational at this point.  We are two years into this thing.  Anything is possible, but I don't think we'd be at any more peace if Hillary was in office for instance.   

I was a Bernie guy, I would have preferred him most of all, and I think there would have likely been some rollback of the war machine, I think, I'd hope, but he was not part of the final choice.  

If Bernie can get the nom and beat trump, I'm all for it.  But I also don't see a progressive Dem rising as an alternate to him, so I see the war machine rolling on

 
Smack Tripper said:
I frankly think these fears of trump dropping nukes is irrational at this point.
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Thanks for the clip. I think it’s hard to tell whether he’s rooting for a recession, or whether he’s assuming that a recession will come and he’s rooting for it to happen sooner rather than later. Either way, I think it’s clear that he’s not saying “I want a recession for petty, personal reasons,” but is saying instead, “I want a recession because I want to preserve democracy.” His analysis may be off, but not his motive, which is what it seems like people are attacking.

As for worries about Trump launching nukes, I think it’s a real worry. Think about the ways humanity is most likely to end. Nuclear war? A virus? An asteroid like the one that wiped out the dinosaurs? Artificial intelligence run amok? Catastrophic climate change? Something else?

I think nuclear war is most likely, maybe by far. And it’s eminently more likely when hotheaded crazy people are in charge of nukes. Kim Jong Un is a real worry, and I wish there were a peaceful way to replace him with someone sane. I also very much worry that a fundamentalist Muslim country will get nukes, and I support peaceful means of preventing that. Trump is not far behind those two in my worries (and exacerbates both of them). As I said in the other thread, I hope I am just being hysterical. It’s possible. But to me it’s a genuine concern. A one-in-ten-thousand risk of nuclear war is worse than a 100% risk of a recession of typical severity and duration, IMO. (Also note that Trump's anti-science stance increases the chances of all the other possibilities I mentioned as well.)

 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
I don’t know what Maher said, but the characterization of it in the thread title is different from the characterization in the body of your post.

I also would prefer a recession (depending on the severity and duration) to another term of Trump. But I am not rooting for the economy to crash. I want the economy to be awesome. But I also recognize that other things besides the economy are also important, and if necessary, I’m willing to trade off a bit of economic prosperity in order to reduce the chance of nuclear war, for example, if those are the options.
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this is about where i'm at.  of course i don't want 2008 over again.  but if a market correction is what it takes to get him out of that office, i'm ok with it.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Thanks for the clip. I think it’s hard to tell whether he’s rooting for a recession, or whether he’s assuming that a recession will come and he’s rooting for it to happen sooner rather than later. Either way, I think it’s clear that he’s not saying “I want a recession for petty, personal reasons,” but is saying instead, “I want a recession because I want to preserve democracy.” His analysis may be off, but not his motive, which is what it seems like people are attacking.

As for worries about Trump launching nukes, I think it’s a real worry. Think about the ways humanity is most likely to end. Nuclear war? A virus? An asteroid like the one that wiped out the dinosaurs? Artificial intelligence run amok? Catastrophic climate change? Something else?

I think nuclear war is most likely, maybe by far. And it’s eminently more likely when hotheaded crazy people are in charge of nukes. Kim Jong Un is a real worry, and I wish there were a peaceful way to replace him with someone sane. I also very much worry that a fundamentalist Muslim country will get nukes, and I support peaceful means of preventing that. Trump is not far behind those two in my worries. As I said in the other thread, I hope I am just being hysterical. It’s possible. But to me it’s a genuine concern. A one-in-ten-thousand risk of nuclear war is worse than a 100% risk of a recession of typical severity and duration, IMO.
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You are quite likely right that I phrased it in a clunky manner

The personal issue may not be fair as presented although I believe they had some litigation over Maher calling him an oragnatan or some nonsense

my devils advocate side would say, the most likely inciting actor in the nuclear realm is apparently moving toward negotiations which were probably unforeseen for years in terms of north korea

I understand and respect your concerns however

Maher didn’t mirror those concerns, he seems to think our democracy is in crisis.  Which it may be, given that the guy who was elected is rather routinely assailed by his own and the opposition party.  

I think if anything it may be cognitive dissonance for Maher that Trump is having any degree of success

 
timschochet said:
There is no way that anyone can possibly arrive at such a conclusion without a crystal ball. In the meantime, you’re rooting for bad things to happen and people to be hurt. 
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A recession would suck, a trade war would suck more, an actual war would suck the most.  No one has a crystal ball, but if I believed we were heading to war with Trump as POtuS, and a recession would make it less likely for him to be re-elected, I’d rather have the recession.  Personally I hope we have neither.  While I detest him as a person, and recognize that he is a crappy president, if we can avoid war AND economic damage, hopefully our nation can survive the damage of two (or God forbid, 6) more years with him as POtuS.

 
Smack Tripper said:
my devils advocate side would say, the most likely inciting actor in the nuclear realm is apparently moving toward negotiations which were probably unforeseen for years in terms of north korea
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Yes. I’m not optimistic that discussions with North Korea will be productive; but if they are, I will credit it as a huge victory for Trump and his administration.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Yes. I’m not optimistic that discussions with North Korea will be productive; but if they are, I will credit it as a huge victory for Trump and his administration.
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Prediction:  Trump, China, Russia and North Korea come to an agreement NATO, the EU, Japan, South Korea and other Asian allies are against.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Thanks for the clip. I think it’s hard to tell whether he’s rooting for a recession, or whether he’s assuming that a recession will come and he’s rooting for it to happen sooner rather than later. Either way, I think it’s clear that he’s not saying “I want a recession for petty, personal reasons,” but is saying instead, “I want a recession because I want to preserve democracy.” His analysis may be off, but not his motive, which is what it seems like people are attacking.
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Or maybe he's saying "I don't really want a recession, but also don't really want another 4 years of Trump, and given a choice between only those two options, and only those two options, I would take the recession."

 
FWIW, I think we're a long way from a recession.  We've got massive fiscal and continued monetary stimulus right now and the Fed seems like it's likely to fall behind in terms of rate increases. 

 
Smack Tripper said:
Maher didn’t mirror those concerns, he seems to think our democracy is in crisis.  Which it may be, given that the guy who was elected is rather routinely assailed by his own and the opposition party.
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I think Trump is assaulting traditional American norms (what we might call "democracy") in lots of ways. He's pressuring the DOJ to investigate his political opponents, and pressuring it to stop investigating him and his friends. He's casting unfounded aspersions on our intelligence agencies. He's constantly denigrating the free press. He's using the pardon power improperly -- at best, for partisan reasons; at worst, to tamper with witnesses and obstruct justice (if he's signaling to Manafort and Stone that he'll have their backs, so there's no need to flip). He's using tax policy to help his friends and hurt his enemies. Same with trade policy. He applies public pressure to judges to rule the way he wants them to. (Obama also did this, but much less frequently and much more mildly.) In the face of overwhelming evidence that a foreign adversary interfered in our most recent election, he is doing everything he can to avoid holding that adversary responsible, and routinely sides with that adversary over our actual allies. He has shown no interest in protecting our democratic process from future tampering -- only in making wildly unfounded allegations about millions of illegal voters costing him the popular win.

So democracy is in crisis, arguably, in numerous ways.

I do think that it has mostly held up pretty well so far. The courts and the DOJ (for the most part) and the intelligence community have maintained their integrity. The press is undeterred. The main failing has been with Congress refusing to hold Trump in check -- including at least one prominent House committee actually appearing to cover for him.

Fortunately, there's a democratic remedy for that. We'll see what happens in the coming midterms...

 
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Who cares what some comedian thinks. Or people like rush Limbaugh. Or Stephen a smith. Have an unpopular take and run with it. That’s all they do. It’s like expecting the daily show to ask hard hitting questions when interviewing someone. It’s a comedy show.

 
Dickies said:
I feel like this kind of thinking is why we have the political divide that we do
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What kind of thinking?  That the choice that does the least damage to America is the best choice?

If more people took this approach instead of gloating about how they got theirs, thanks, and everyone else can just get cucked we might find a way out of this mess.

 
timschochet said:
Yeah I hate this kind of thinking. I don’t believe most Trump opponents feel this way. I hope not. 
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Interesting. Thanks for the feedback. I guess "recession" needs some more clarification, but I would have thought a not insignificant number of Trump opponents would feel this way. 

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
What kind of thinking?  That the choice that does the least damage to America is the best choice?

If more people took this approach instead of gloating about how they got theirs, thanks, and everyone else can just get cucked we might find a way out of this mess.
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Wishing harm on something in order to prompt change with something else that's unrelated.

It'd be like me my wife wanting to get the house painted so she destroys our garage door.  Then we need to buy a new garage door and paint the house instead of just painting the house.

There is no need for a recession to vote Trump out of office.

 
Joe Bryant said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession . 

Negative economic growth for 2 consecutive quarters. Regardless of what Maher actually said, I'd think a lot of Trump opponents would take this. Would they not? 
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Just to be clear I think you have to read in the assumption Maher was making, which is recession *or* loss of democracy. We can criticize the assumption but let’s be clear about the supposed choice.

 
timschochet said:
There is no way that anyone can possibly arrive at such a conclusion without a crystal ball. In the meantime, you’re rooting for bad things to happen and people to be hurt. 
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Of course you can arrive at that conclusion without a crystal ball. That's nonsensical. Evaluate the harm of existing actions, extrapolate to the future. Pretty straightforward decision making process that most people engage in.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
I think Trump is assaulting traditional American norms (what we might call "democracy") in lots of ways. He's pressuring the DOJ to investigate his political opponents, and pressuring it to stop investigating him and his friends. He's casting unfounded aspersions on our intelligence agencies. He's constantly denigrating the free press. He's using the pardon power improperly -- at best, for partisan reasons; at worst, to tamper with witnesses and obstruct justice (if he's signaling to Manafort and Stone that he'll have their backs, so there's no need to flip). He's using tax policy to help his friends and hurt his enemies. Same with trade policy. He applies public pressure to judges to rule the way he wants them to. (Obama also did this, but much less frequently and much more mildly.) In the face of overwhelming evidence that a foreign adversary interfered in our most recent election, he is doing everything he can to avoid holding that adversary responsible, and routinely sides with that adversary over our actual allies. He has shown no interest in protecting our democratic process from future tampering -- only in making wildly unfounded allegations about millions of illegal voters costing him the popular win.

So democracy is in crisis, arguably, in numerous ways.

I do think that it has mostly held up pretty well so far. The courts and the DOJ (for the most part) and the intelligence community have maintained their integrity. The press is undeterred. The main failing has been with Congress refusing to hold Trump in check -- including at least one prominent House committee actually appearing to cover for him.

Fortunately, there's a democratic remedy for that. We'll see what happens in the coming midterms...
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He's also got his kids conducting state business in conjunction with their private business. You know... #### monarchs do.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Thanks for the clip. I think it’s hard to tell whether he’s rooting for a recession, or whether he’s assuming that a recession will come and he’s rooting for it to happen sooner rather than later. Either way, I think it’s clear that he’s not saying “I want a recession for petty, personal reasons,” but is saying instead, “I want a recession because I want to preserve democracy.” His analysis may be off, but not his motive, which is what it seems like people are attacking.

As for worries about Trump launching nukes, I think it’s a real worry. Think about the ways humanity is most likely to end. Nuclear war? A virus? An asteroid like the one that wiped out the dinosaurs? Artificial intelligence run amok? Catastrophic climate change? Something else?

I think nuclear war is most likely, maybe by far. And it’s eminently more likely when hotheaded crazy people are in charge of nukes. Kim Jong Un is a real worry, and I wish there were a peaceful way to replace him with someone sane. I also very much worry that a fundamentalist Muslim country will get nukes, and I support peaceful means of preventing that. Trump is not far behind those two in my worries (and exacerbates both of them). As I said in the other thread, I hope I am just being hysterical. It’s possible. But to me it’s a genuine concern. A one-in-ten-thousand risk of nuclear war is worse than a 100% risk of a recession of typical severity and duration, IMO. (Also note that Trump's anti-science stance increases the chances of all the other possibilities I mentioned as well.)
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Just, 'wow'.  :rolleyes:  Yeah, you're hysterical. Trump starting a nuke war. :lmao:  

 
Voting for Trump is voting to burn the state down.

The choice wasn't Trump or Clinton either.  Republicans could have voted any other one of their candidtates.  They voted for the one who wants to tear it all down.  They are willing to hurt children to get their way.

Recession?  Money?  Who gives a #### when you are cruel and have no dignity.

 
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