Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Oof, your hero MT keeps digging a deeper and deeper hole.
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Trump Opponents - Would you rather have a Recession or Trump Re-election? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
James Daulton
Footballguy
Recessions are inevitable but short, Trump can/is doing long term lasting damage. Put me in the recession camp.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Can someone unpack this alleged long term damage Trump is causing? Things seem to be going sweet for me and the people I know.
James Daulton
Footballguy
Massively increasing the deficit during "booming" economic times.
Can someone unpack this alleged long term damage Trump is causing? Things seem to be going sweet for me and the people I know.
Creating a rift between the US and our traditional allies.
Lies and changes his mind so much that he's undermining the trust in the office.
Climate change denier.
Emboldening pro-lifers to the point where abortion is essentially becoming illegal in several states.
Eliminated many environmental protecting regulations.
Widening the gap between the rich and poor with the tax cut for the rich.
Turning toward old, polluting technology (like coal), and away from clean, high tech energy.
Should I go on?
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sho nuff
Footballguy
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
James Daulton
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
@Maurile Tremblay I’m basing my thoughts on this original post. It seems to me that @Joe Bryant‘s purpose here was basically to ask the question, “are you rooting for bad things to happen in order to see Trump lose the next election?” That’s what I believe he was getting at based on this post, but perhaps I am wrong about that? If so then I misunderstood.
randall146
Footballguy
Would you like one bad thing, or tons of bad things, probably including the first one?
supermike80
Footballguy
Few thoughts.....It's not like the deficit rising is new under Trump. And whats the downside? We always hear about how bad the deficit is..Why is it bad?
I know of no rifts with our allies..and if they do exist, they will go away.
The faith in the office is not a long term thing....If one of the democratic hopefuls wins its all fixed right?
The cause and solution to climate change is still being debated
There are a whole lot of people who are anti-abortion. I hate how liberals love to make it out like only a small % of people are anti abortion. Wrong.. Deal with it. You want pro choice? Find a way to elect people who support that vision.
Some, well more than some, would argue that many environmental regulations went too far, at the expense of business and jobs in this country.
The tax cut helped me and I am not rich.
Last one I can't argue with. he is a fan of the coal industry.
James Daulton
Footballguy
Thanks for the thoughtful responses, but on the first I have to take issue. Increasing the debt at the rate he is during "booming" times is completely irresponsible. Every dollar we pay in debt service is a dollar we can't invest in this country. Think of it like credit card interest in your own life, it can grow so large it takes on a life of its own and provides you no meaningful value, quite the opposite actually.
supermike80
Footballguy
But it's money being pumped into the world economy. Without that borrowing, many banks and nations and individuals would see financial impacts.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Well, the cause is being debated by politically and economically motivated partisans.
In scientific circles, the cause is not being debated. It is considered resolved. There is a strong scientific consensus that the dominant cause of observed warming is human-induced emission of greenhouse gases. No scientific body of national or international standing disputes that consensus.
Yes, I think you misunderstood. The question isn't "Do you want more bad stuff or less bad stuff?" The question is "Which option constitutes more bad stuff than the other?"
Nobody is rooting for more suffering. People are disagreeing about which option would likely result in more suffering.
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
Right and as Randall just pointed out, with Trump you get all the other bad stuff and probably a recession too.
Also, if a recession hits shouldn't the people who are impacted have planned better - I thought that's what the conservation model is - personally responsibility. There's plenty of opportunities for those folks to get out there and earn more money if they didn't plan well for the recession.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Can someone unpack this alleged long term damage Trump is causing? Things seem to be going sweet for me and the people I know.
The idea that people are suffering now with Trump as President is stupid. However, they need to try and justify their partisan selfishness so claiming people are suffering now is their only way to justify saying a recession is better than Trump.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
He’s a big meanie pants...
James Daulton
Footballguy
I pointed out multiple ways Trump is damaging the country. You may choose to not agree, but non of them are emotional but reflect mine, and many others, opinions. Saying he's damaged relationships with allies really can't be denied for example. You can say they were taking advantage of us, or something to that extent, but the US is now more isolated than we have been in decades. That's the truth. If the US were to try to build a coalition to fight some agresion do you actually believe that we're in a good position to do so? The other countries would probably laugh and say how much they'd charge us.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
Well that all depends on who is the aggressor and the aggressee(i think thats a word)....Not surprisingly, these countries that are now not our allies will sure be happy to see us when they need help from an aggressor. So this is far too big of a blanket to lay down.
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supermike80
Footballguy
So my point was correct? I'm not sure what you are saying. The cause is still being debated. Right?
There are MANY scientists who dispute that climate change is man made by the way. I'm sure you know this.
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supermike80
Footballguy
Lutherman2112
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I’m firmly in the recession camp as I believe we won’t know the extent of the damage Trump is causing for a long time. I’m heading to Atlantic City soon so I did a search and found this article. I don’t know much about the Guardian, but I suppose they lean heavily left. Nonetheless, the stark reality of Trump Taj Majal’s fate (I used to gamble there) is chilling and mostly insulated from how a media site leans. Out of business is out of business. Sure, one can explain it away with other causes but it’s yet another indicator that our dear leader is truly not a great businessman.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2019/apr/08/atlantic-city-trump-ghost-town-gambling-brian-rose-photographer
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2019/apr/08/atlantic-city-trump-ghost-town-gambling-brian-rose-photographer
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Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
just curious if the 65% +/- that said Yes/probably are happy with this recession ?
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
This was quite a prescient question
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
The answer seems clear
adonis
Footballguy
I vote for president to some degree on economic terms, but there's a lot more that goes into a vote for President for me.
The vast majority of things Trump is pretty terrible at, according to what I look for in any competent president.
If we had to endure a downgrade (but isn't that baked in already?) for economic prospects for a few quarters, to get an upgrade in all other areas and likely an economic turnaround, I'd gladly pull the vote lever for that.
America is about so much more than our stock market, and Trump seems to point primarily at that to show his value. Main street has been hurting incredibly, while Wall Street has rebounded in ways unmoored from the underlying economic situation. To me, this makes it a poor indicator of success as a president, at least stock market performance.
I don't believe Trump has it in him to turn this economic situation around either. He's run up huge deficits, he's cut taxes, unemployment is at records not seen in many lifetimes...things are bad, and he isn't the person up for the job. So while even in the best of times, i'd accept some downturn in economy to get a better president in, in these times I have no confidence that he nor his team have what it takes to fix what ails us as a country.
The vast majority of things Trump is pretty terrible at, according to what I look for in any competent president.
If we had to endure a downgrade (but isn't that baked in already?) for economic prospects for a few quarters, to get an upgrade in all other areas and likely an economic turnaround, I'd gladly pull the vote lever for that.
America is about so much more than our stock market, and Trump seems to point primarily at that to show his value. Main street has been hurting incredibly, while Wall Street has rebounded in ways unmoored from the underlying economic situation. To me, this makes it a poor indicator of success as a president, at least stock market performance.
I don't believe Trump has it in him to turn this economic situation around either. He's run up huge deficits, he's cut taxes, unemployment is at records not seen in many lifetimes...things are bad, and he isn't the person up for the job. So while even in the best of times, i'd accept some downturn in economy to get a better president in, in these times I have no confidence that he nor his team have what it takes to fix what ails us as a country.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
One of the reasons we were so anxious to have Trump gone is the fear that there would be some sort of national crisis and he would totally screw it up.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Thus leading to worse financial circumstances...like pushing us further into debt as we have...
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
adonis
Footballguy
Why would anyone be happy with a recession?
I'm not happy when I have to get a shot at the doctor, or have surgery to fix a problem. Sometimes it takes a painful event to show folks the error of their ways, and sometimes you accept a short term pain for a long term benefit. It doesn't mean you enjoy the pain, but again, in some cases short term pain is worth the cost.
But this recession is of Trump's own doing. He's in charge, he was over the response, his government is putting out the guidance, and he owns the outcome. The unemployment, the market plunges, the lack of economic growth...all under his watch, all due to a response based on those he has in power.
This wasn't a recession his opponents chose, this is one that results from his own leadership or lack thereof. Barely anyone is happy about it.
Jobber
Footballguy
And SC's post you're responding to is the very reason I didn't bite on this stinky bait poll.
"See! I told you the LibTerds hate Trump so much they're hoping for a recession!1!!1!!"
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fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
It’s also a pretty silly question to ask now, while Trump is still President who could get re-elected. Nobody voted to have a recession and to also keep Trump.
"Would you rather die by being shot in the head or being buried alive?"
"Well, at least being shot would be quick, so I guess that."
"Wow, I can't believe you don't care about being shot!"
Also, this is a little like people who don't know who to cheer for when their fantasy QB is playing against their favorite team. Hint: It doesn't actually matter who you cheer for, because it's not going to have any impact on the outcome.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Im sorry, you lost me at my cheering has no impact.
Also...you cheer for a high scoring game so the opposing QB scores a lot of points for you, but your favorite team still wins.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
well to be fair GOP does try political games too .... but yes, look at this poll - a large % would rather a recession than Trump re-elected
hurting American families through recession just for political reasons
that was the question - and now we have a recession that was created by DNC and GOP both .... which will weaken Trump's chances of re-election and yes, Democrats will keep this going if they can to keep Trump's possibility of using "booming economy" against them in Nov
adonis
Footballguy
I think they can be happy that Trump's chance of re-election are lower currently, but happy about the recession itself? Nah. That's being happy about a potential byproduct of the recession, imo.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
This is exactly why I said I'd rather have the recession than Trump. I'd take the "either/or" over "both" (and that was almost a guarantee when I answered this poll originally) any day of the week . I didn't realize we were in a recession though....feels more like a coma than anything.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
64% wanting Trump gone and the country suffering got their wish
quick-hands
Footballguy
Not making the assumption things would have been much different under Trump and I have suffered less realizing that 6-7 million more Americans didn't want Trump for President.
-Covid appears to under control better than Trump
-We once again have good relationships with our allies and President doesn’t have any cozy relationships with thugs.
- massive infrastructure bill accomplished
- no attacks on the media or administration officials fighting and leaving current administration
-unemployment down to 3.8%
-wages higher
-farm economy booming( not that Biden had much of anything to do with it)
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