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2018-19 NBA Thread: Magic Johnson leaves Lakers in order to pursue other jobs to be completely terrible at (2 Viewers)

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Stuart Ullman said:
Haven't been keeping up, but is there any scenario where the Spurs don't move him at all?

If he refuses to play, he doesn't get paid, right?
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If a non-LA team feels like they stand no chance of retaining Kawhi past 2018-2019, they may not offer very much. If an LA team feels like there are no serious offers out there, they may not want to part with any assets now with the expectation that they can sign him as a FA next season. SA may decide to hold on to him and get him to play in SA another season hoping to extend him. Leonard can get the best deal from the Spurs. SA could try to move him before the deadline . . . or they could do a max contract sign and trade next off season if he really wants out.That might get better offers if teams knew they could get him for 5 years, and by then he might not want to only play in LA.

Not sure what would happen if he refuses to play. My guess is he would claim he was injured. Or he might play and just not give 100%.

 
Anarchy99 said:
If a non-LA team feels like they stand no chance of retaining Kawhi past 2018-2019, they may not offer very much. If an LA team feels like there are no serious offers out there, they may not want to part with any assets now with the expectation that they can sign him as a FA next season. SA may decide to hold on to him and get him to play in SA another season hoping to extend him. Leonard can get the best deal from the Spurs. SA could try to move him before the deadline . . . or they could do a max contract sign and trade next off season if he really wants out.That might get better offers if teams knew they could get him for 5 years, and by then he might not want to only play in LA.

Not sure what would happen if he refuses to play. My guess is he would claim he was injured. Or he might play and just not give 100%.
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If he refuses to play and claims an injury that is disputed by team doctors, the NBA assigns an independent medical evaluation of the situation. If their judgment is that he can play, but he continues to hold out, my understanding is that he won't be able to enter free agency next offseason as scheduled, and his contract rolls over for another year. I think he needs to appear in a minimum number of games to qualify.

If the Spurs hold on to Leonard he really can't afford to sit out, or to slack off on the court. Teams are already very wary of his attitude and the baggage he brings. Holding out another year (note that his team has already stated he's 100% healthy) or not demonstrating that he can still play at an MVP level will both cost him enormously. I don't see how that will be acceptable to him, unless he really doesn't care about getting the kind of contract his talent warrants, and has no priority other than to play in Los Angeles (both of which may be true). It's just a bizarre situation, and it's hard to see it as anything other than his management completely tanking his value as an NBA player, intentionally or not.

 
drpill said:
If he refuses to play and claims an injury that is disputed by team doctors, the NBA assigns an independent medical evaluation of the situation. If their judgment is that he can play, but he continues to hold out, my understanding is that he won't be able to enter free agency next offseason as scheduled, and his contract rolls over for another year. I think he needs to appear in a minimum number of games to qualify.

If the Spurs hold on to Leonard he really can't afford to sit out, or to slack off on the court. Teams are already very wary of his attitude and the baggage he brings. Holding out another year (note that his team has already stated he's 100% healthy) or not demonstrating that he can still play at an MVP level will both cost him enormously. I don't see how that will be acceptable to him, unless he really doesn't care about getting the kind of contract his talent warrants, and has no priority other than to play in Los Angeles (both of which may be true). It's just a bizarre situation, and it's hard to see it as anything other than his management completely tanking his value as an NBA player, intentionally or not.
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hmm good info. :goodposting:

 
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Gr00vus said:
Hart and Svi went bonkers in the semis.  :thumbup:
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wasn't Ball MVP of summer league last year as well? Anybody tell Magic and Walton (and whoever their summer league coach is) that summer league games don't count for the regular season :P

 
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drpill said:
If he refuses to play and claims an injury that is disputed by team doctors, the NBA assigns an independent medical evaluation of the situation. If their judgment is that he can play, but he continues to hold out, my understanding is that he won't be able to enter free agency next offseason as scheduled, and his contract rolls over for another year. I think he needs to appear in a minimum number of games to qualify.

If the Spurs hold on to Leonard he really can't afford to sit out, or to slack off on the court. Teams are already very wary of his attitude and the baggage he brings. Holding out another year (note that his team has already stated he's 100% healthy) or not demonstrating that he can still play at an MVP level will both cost him enormously. I don't see how that will be acceptable to him, unless he really doesn't care about getting the kind of contract his talent warrants, and has no priority other than to play in Los Angeles (both of which may be true). It's just a bizarre situation, and it's hard to see it as anything other than his management completely tanking his value as an NBA player, intentionally or not.
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Sure, he is saying is 100% healthy now so he could be traded. But if he has no other option than to stick it out in SA, who knows if he would start to get nagging injuries. Rolled an ankle. Pulled a hammy. Jammed a finger. Muscle soreness or fatigue from working out. Maybe he doesn't sprint up and down up the court every trip. Maybe he takes fewer shots. Maybe he no longer attacks the basket or fights for rebounds.

Put another way, I think it would be close to impossible to enact the contract roll over clause or provision and force him to stay in SA another season. It sounds good in theory, but I am not sure how feasible it is to make use of it. Yes, if just outright refused to get on the court that would be different. If KL coasted to a season averaging 14.5 points, 4 boards, a couple of assists, and less hustle on defense I doubt anyone could force him to play better or harder. A more likely outcome would be that he became a giant distraction, his posse started make life onerous and exceedingly difficult, and he shot his way out of Dodge and forced a trade.

I don't know how likely any of that is to happen, what Leonard's proclivity is to act out, and what his demeanor is on any of this. But if he wanted to become annoying and a distraction I think that option is available if he wanted to choose it. Who knows, maybe he just keeps his mouth shut and plays 100% the entire season. That's certainly one of the possible outcomes as well.

 
Sorry if I missed it but did anyone post the story of the Sixers trying to hire Morey away from Houston.  :lmao:

The Sixers offseason hasn't been productive but it sure has been entertaining. 

 
Tom Hagen said:
Sorry if I missed it but did anyone post the story of the Sixers trying to hire Morey away from Houston.  :lmao:

The Sixers offseason hasn't been productive but it sure has been entertaining. 
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I'm sure that was a short phone call. 

Then it begs the question, why not just hire Hinkie back at that point? I love this team but our owners have to be the biggest idiots in all of sports ownership.

 
I'd add to my bucket list watching like forty games of Chi-Den not defending each other this year if it were possible. Bulls were very close to relevant before Dunn face-planted last season - i remember labelling them 'better than Thunder or Wolves' @ the time.

 
Listening to Windy on Cleveland radio earlier it seems like the Cavs are determined to take the stupidest path forward and pursue mediocrity rather than tank properly.

 
Anarchy99 said:
Sure, he is saying is 100% healthy now so he could be traded. But if he has no other option than to stick it out in SA, who knows if he would start to get nagging injuries. Rolled an ankle. Pulled a hammy. Jammed a finger. Muscle soreness or fatigue from working out. Maybe he doesn't sprint up and down up the court every trip. Maybe he takes fewer shots. Maybe he no longer attacks the basket or fights for rebounds.

Put another way, I think it would be close to impossible to enact the contract roll over clause or provision and force him to stay in SA another season. It sounds good in theory, but I am not sure how feasible it is to make use of it. Yes, if just outright refused to get on the court that would be different. If KL coasted to a season averaging 14.5 points, 4 boards, a couple of assists, and less hustle on defense I doubt anyone could force him to play better or harder. A more likely outcome would be that he became a giant distraction, his posse started make life onerous and exceedingly difficult, and he shot his way out of Dodge and forced a trade.

I don't know how likely any of that is to happen, what Leonard's proclivity is to act out, and what his demeanor is on any of this. But if he wanted to become annoying and a distraction I think that option is available if he wanted to choose it. Who knows, maybe he just keeps his mouth shut and plays 100% the entire season. That's certainly one of the possible outcomes as well.
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If he sits out or dogs it this year, the Lakers or another team would be taking a pretty big risk that he’s still the same guy. That’d be two full years of sitting out or subpar performance from Leonard. 

If Leonard still has some desire to be eligible for a $220+ deal from SA next offseason (way more money than anyone else could offer), my understanding is that he’ll have to requalify for the supermax this year (by making an all NBA team, etc.). So that’d be another reason for him to play and play well. 

 
Gr00vus said:
Hart and Svi went bonkers in the semis.  :thumbup:
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Lakers scouting department has been on fire the last couple years.  Hart's step forward this summer is outstanding, Moe Wagner is described as "another potential Laker late 1st round steal" per an ESPN analytics article today, and Svi is obviously exceeding expectations, though I still have doubt that he will make the team.  

Championship game tonight.   :thumbup:

 
bananafish said:
Kawhi seems like an out and out nut to me now. Approach with caution.
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i know a couple of guys who were good enough in sports to make it pro or get right there. i'll never forget talking to one guy who talked about how he has been playing competitively his whole life. basically 20+ of the same sport for most of the year, you just start to get bored playing it. i think this has to happen with some guys, and i would be a little worried with Kawhi that his love for the game may have dropped. of course that is still why i like the Sixers in the convorsation for him. you would think between Brown and Williams they would have a better idea than most teams regarding what happened and how committed Kawhi still is

 
Early reports are that neither player wants this deal to happen.  

Derozan obviously a very good player, but surprised SA didn’t prioritize young cheap assets with upside over a SG with a max deal.  Or maybe they did, and the offers were not there.  

 
modogg said:
man, the more i have seen of the last 2 months of NBA sports media the more i feel 80% of all of it is b.s. And i throw Windhurst in that 80%. Maybe he is all buddy-buddy with Lebron (though all of these guys saying they knew all year LeBron was going to the Lakers certainly weren't saying it until mid-June'ish, if that), but this call that Toronto is the only real chance for Kawhi just stinks of click-bait:    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2786417-brian-windhorst-raptors-in-drivers-seat-for-kawhi-leonard-amid-trade-rumors

I can not see what Toronto can offer that would be better then what the Sixers or Lakers can offer. Derozan is a not a guy they would want to trade for. A few good young guys, but not at the level LA or Philly could offer. And their draft picks are kind of junk. Any team offering San Antonio their own draft picks after they would add Kawhi Leonard is just being silly. I just don't see it, but i didn't see Lebron and Lakers either so...welcome to Toronto Kawhi

ETA: only read first 1/3 of the article when i posted the above. just read the rest of the article, funny click-bait. author basically says it makes no sense
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@OldTakesExposed 

 
tommyGunZ said:
Early reports are that neither player wants this deal to happen.  

Derozan obviously a very good player, but surprised SA didn’t prioritize young cheap assets with upside over a SG with a max deal.  Or maybe they did, and the offers were not there.  
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It’s understandable why teams with bright futures like Boston and Philly wouldn’t want to pay too much for the Kawhi risk. Toronto seems to be going nowhere so it makes more sense for them.

 
Good move for the Raptors IMO.  Last chance at the East is probably this year, although I still think they are about 3rd even with Kawhi.  If it isn't working, they could still get resources back via trade at the deadline, which is what I expect to happen.  If it does work, then great at least they get a shot to get creamed in the finals.

Of course, everyone was certain no chance Paul George resigned in OKC, so you never know.  Worth the risk IMO.

 
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flranger said:
Good move for the Raptors IMO.  Last chance at the East is probably this year, although I still think they are about 3rd even with Kawhi.  If it isn't working, they could still get resources back via trade at the deadline, which is what I expect to happen.  If it does work, then great at least they get a shot to get creamed in the finals.

Of course, everyone was certain no chance Paul George resigned in OKC, so you never know.  Worth the risk IMO.
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I feel exactly like I did about the George trade. If it totally doesn't work out for Toronto, it still clears a bunch of salary for 2019 and they can move on to a rebuild. A healthy Leonard is a huge upgrade to DeRozan and Green is probably a better player than Poeltl in 2018/2019. I think this makes Toronto east favorites for now.

 
tommyGunZ said:
Lakers scouting department has been on fire the last couple years.  Hart's step forward this summer is outstanding, Moe Wagner is described as "another potential Laker late 1st round steal" per an ESPN analytics article today, and Svi is obviously exceeding expectations, though I still have doubt that he will make the team.  

Championship game tonight.   :thumbup:
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Michigan homer caution, but - I agree. I would have taken him over at least two lotto guys. Probably more, I just dont know enough about some of them. 

 
Kev4029 said:
I feel exactly like I did about the George trade. If it totally doesn't work out for Toronto, it still clears a bunch of salary for 2019 and they can move on to a rebuild. A healthy Leonard is a huge upgrade to DeRozan and Green is probably a better player than Poeltl in 2018/2019. I think this makes Toronto east favorites for now.
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Yup. Pick is protected 1-20 and would roll over to two seconds. Basically, Toronto is not giving up anything meaningful and worst case scenario gets off the last couple years of a not-great contract. 

 
Kev4029 said:
I feel exactly like I did about the George trade. If it totally doesn't work out for Toronto, it still clears a bunch of salary for 2019 and they can move on to a rebuild. A healthy Leonard is a huge upgrade to DeRozan and Green is probably a better player than Poeltl in 2018/2019. I think this makes Toronto east favorites for now.
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It depends which Kawhi they get. The one that was great a few years ago. The one that seemingly was hurt last year. Or the one that has been acting like a diva trying to shoot his way out of town.

He doesn't want to go to Toronto and only wants to go to LA still (at least for now), so if he doesn't really buy in and pouts all year, he could act up just like he did in SA.

I don't know where people slot DeRozan in the player rankings. Maybe Top 20? Sure, if the Raptors get the Top3-5 version of Kawhi then it's an upgrade. If they get a lukewarm disinterested one, it may not be that big of an upgrade.

 
My guess is Tatum, Brown and Ingram were not available so there really wasn't a young foundation piece for San Antonio to get...Philly has some decent pieces but outside of Embiid and Simmons who they weren't going to deal they don't have anything that is worth building around...Toronto is taking a huge risk here...there will be short-term benefit in Leonard over DeRozan but if he doesn't resign they are heading south quickly...right now I see the Celtics as pretty big favorites in the East with Kyrie and Hayward coming back and Tatum and Brown most likely getting better...as for San Antonio they needed to get something very legit in this deal...while DeRozan has some warts he is a legit all-star that is under 30 and has 3 years left on his deal and it appears San Antonio is concerned with the now just as much as the future...overall this whole saga has been very odd...Kawhi went from being this quiet young superstar to a complete mystery man...would really love to know the details of what really went on in San Antonio...

 
As a Raptors fan, I'm fairly happy with this deal and mostly just relieved we didn't trade OG Anunoby for a 1 year rental.  This kind of kills 2 birds with 1 stone - gives us a better chance to make the finals this year (which would be a first in franchise history) and also could make a tanking/rebuild a bit easier if things don't work out (can clear the deck next offseason with demar gone and lowry/ibaka as expirings).

 
thecatch said:
On the other side, the Spurs basically just added DeRozan to a team that won 47 games last year. Biggest losers might be the fringe playoff teams in the West that were hoping that the Spurs falling off would offset the Lakers rising up. 
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yeah but the whole thing seems to be just a big train wreck. Reports now that Kawhi has no desire to play in Toronto, and Derozan has not desire to play in San Antonio. Obviously season is month away so that will change, but just real messy. And Spurs had to get better offers then what they got from Toronto, weird how they had to pull the trigger now. Maybe they know something about Kawhi's health or something else that made them feel they need to trade him now before anything else gets leaked.

 
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