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2018-19 NBA Thread: Magic Johnson leaves Lakers in order to pursue other jobs to be completely terrible at

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2 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

It’s understandable why teams with bright futures like Boston and Philly wouldn’t want to pay too much for the Kawhi risk. Toronto seems to be going nowhere so it makes more sense for them.

yeah, something just seems off. I am wondering if this is more of a PR move with the Toronto ownership saying they have to do something because of the embarrassment in the playoffs last year, and they went this route since they didn't do anything else.

I would say this helps out the case for Kawhi to go to LA next year. I don't think Toronto will be able to do anything to convince him to want to play there

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4 minutes ago, modogg said:

yeah but the whole thing seems to be just a big train wreck. Reports now that Kawhi has no desire to play in Toronto, and Derozan has not desire to play in San Antonio. Obviously season is month away so that will change, but just real messy. And Spurs had to get better offers then what they got from Toronto, weird how they had to pull the trigger now. Maybe they know something about Kawhi's health or something else that made them feel they need to trade him now before anything else gets leaked.

They do have a desire to get paid however. So I think they'll show up.

As for the better offers, I don't think so. Just take every thing we heard in the media out. None of those deals we're real. Teams were probably really tight on their offers because they knew he was a rental or in LAs case, they know theres a good chance he's coming next year. No one is offering anything of value at that point. Sixers probably only offered Covington OR Saric and the 2021 Heat 1st. Celtics probably about the equivalent of that. Lakers even less. 

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7 minutes ago, modogg said:

yeah but the whole thing seems to be just a big train wreck. Reports now that Kawhi has no desire to play in Toronto, and Derozan has not desire to play in San Antonio. Obviously season is month away so that will change, but just real messy. And Spurs had to get better offers then what they got from Toronto, weird how they had to pull the trigger now. Maybe they know something about Kawhi's health or something else that made them feel they need to trade him now before anything else gets leaked.

Remember what you wrote earlier, 80% of what's reported is bs. @hxperson did a great job summarizing why this makes sense for Toronto. Even if it flops. The potential outcomes are on the extremes, not purgatory. 

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6 minutes ago, modogg said:

yeah but the whole thing seems to be just a big train wreck. Reports now that Kawhi has no desire to play in Toronto, and Derozan has not desire to play in San Antonio. Obviously season is month away so that will change, but just real messy. And Spurs had to get better offers then what they got from Toronto, weird how they had to pull the trigger now. Maybe they know something about Kawhi's health or something else that made them feel they need to trade him now before anything else gets leaked.

I think the issue is there were not better offers (especially involving young talent with decent contracts) due to the appearance Kawhi is headed to LA...DeRozan is a legit all star who has averaged over 20 a game for 5 years and over 23 the past 3...The Spurs also control him for the next 3 years...San Antonio also does not appear to want to rebuild so I don't see how they were gonna do better than this...

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Just now, Insein said:

They do have a desire to get paid however. So I think they'll show up.

As for the better offers, I don't think so. Just take every thing we heard in the media out. None of those deals we're real. Teams were probably really tight on their offers because they knew he was a rental or in LAs case, they know theres a good chance he's coming next year. No one is offering anything of value at that point. Sixers probably only offered Covington OR Saric and the 2021 Heat 1st. Celtics probably about the equivalent of that. Lakers even less. 

I still think the Sixers had to have the best feel for the whole thing out of the potential suitors. I agree that they must have got word that the Kawhi stuff to LA really is something (still weird these grown men wanting to play for their "home" team over all sorts of other variables), or it has to be something where the injury Kawhi has to his quad/leg is legit an issue

Think the other teams might have dodged a bullet here, can't imagine Kawhi will be sought over much in fantasy leagues

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12 minutes ago, modogg said:

yeah but the whole thing seems to be just a big train wreck. Reports now that Kawhi has no desire to play in Toronto, and Derozan has not desire to play in San Antonio. Obviously season is month away so that will change, but just real messy. And Spurs had to get better offers then what they got from Toronto, weird how they had to pull the trigger now. Maybe they know something about Kawhi's health or something else that made them feel they need to trade him now before anything else gets leaked.

I would like to see the Spurs trade DeRozen to LA as an f u to Leonard.

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Derozan should be able to come off the bench to give Lonnie Walker IV a breather for spells at a time. 

Edited by Buck Bradcanon
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1 hour ago, caustic said:

Woj says it’s Kawhi and Danny Green for DeRozan, Poeltl, and a protected 2019 1st.

I wouldn't say thats an overpay. 

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13 minutes ago, modogg said:

yeah, something just seems off. I am wondering if this is more of a PR move with the Toronto ownership saying they have to do something because of the embarrassment in the playoffs last year, and they went this route since they didn't do anything else.

I would say this helps out the case for Kawhi to go to LA next year. I don't think Toronto will be able to do anything to convince him to want to play there

Toronto had to do something. They are a very prideful fanbase and last years playoff series with Cleveland was an embarrassment. DeRozen by the end seemed like a malcontent. This had to be a PR move on their part. As for the other teams maybe Sixers didn't want to give up the assets possible knowing Loenard or someone in his camp told them he would resign. Clearly SAS had to have had better offers right? 

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11 minutes ago, modogg said:

I still think the Sixers had to have the best feel for the whole thing out of the potential suitors. I agree that they must have got word that the Kawhi stuff to LA really is something (still weird these grown men wanting to play for their "home" team over all sorts of other variables), or it has to be something where the injury Kawhi has to his quad/leg is legit an issue

Think the other teams might have dodged a bullet here, can't imagine Kawhi will be sought over much in fantasy leagues

I have zero issue with players wanting to play for their hometown team or favorite team they grew up with. That's like getting mad that Trout signed with the Phillies iN FA in a few yrs or Jimmy Butler signing with Houston. I think its pretty cool. I know if I were an athlete I'd want to sign with my favorite team or the Hometown team. 

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6 minutes ago, DJackson10 said:

Toronto had to do something. They are a very prideful fanbase and last years playoff series with Cleveland was an embarrassment. DeRozen by the end seemed like a malcontent. This had to be a PR move on their part. As for the other teams maybe Sixers didn't want to give up the assets possible knowing Loenard or someone in his camp told them he would resign. Clearly SAS had to have had better offers right? 

“Better” is relative. They clearly dont want to rebuild. They won 47 games without Kawai and now they added a legit all-star scorer to that team. What player could have been offered that is better than Derozan TODAY?

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Poeltl the Turtle is FREE!! And with Gasol to teach him post moves. My fantasy 12th round is going to be so much fun this yr, esp now that Scary Terry & Josh Hart are likely 1st rounders.

Though i'm tempted to say that Brett Brown is just as good a GM as he is a coach, i don't see a Sixer offer that improves on that. Kinda disappointed about Philly's whole-lotta-nuttin offseason now, though - the Simmons jump shot will need to take a pretty ginormous step fwd for the Celt/Sixer rivalry to grow now.

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21 minutes ago, modogg said:

I still think the Sixers had to have the best feel for the whole thing out of the potential suitors.

Based on what?

 

On second thought, nevermind. :lmao:

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1 hour ago, Capella said:

Legit wonder if Kawhi dogs it or sits out again. 

Toronto will fine him starting with preseason practices and not pay him game checks if he goes that route again.  If he doesn't play they can file a grievance and control him for another year.

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Just now, Short Corner said:

Toronto will fine him starting with preseason practices and not pay him game checks if he goes that route again.  If he doesn't play they can file a grievance and control him for another year.

Yea he playing.

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1 minute ago, Short Corner said:

Toronto will fine him starting with preseason practices and not pay him game checks if he goes that route again.  If he doesn't play they can file a grievance and control him for another year.

It would be supergreat if anyone did that to anyone in this sport. it's so bad that i don't bother complaining that "players may be paid so much because of their talent but that's not what they're paid for" anymore

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15 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

Poeltl the Turtle is FREE!! And with Gasol to teach him post moves. My fantasy 12th round is going to be so much fun this yr, esp now that Scary Terry & Josh Hart are likely 1st rounders.

Though i'm tempted to say that Brett Brown is just as good a GM as he is a coach, i don't see a Sixer offer that improves on that. Kinda disappointed about Philly's whole-lotta-nuttin offseason now, though - the Simmons jump shot will need to take a pretty ginormous step fwd for the Celt/Sixer rivalry to grow now.

I think Sixers are thinking a healthy Fultz with a refound jump shot is an addition without cost is their best hope of improvement. 

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32 minutes ago, PlasmaDogPlasma said:

Based on what?

 

On second thought, nevermind. :lmao:

I think Sixers had best access to his health due to the relationship with the doctor, notwithstanding HIPPA violations. 

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25 minutes ago, Short Corner said:

Toronto will fine him starting with preseason practices and not pay him game checks if he goes that route again.  If he doesn't play they can file a grievance and control him for another year.

I gave my perspective on this a couple pages ago when Leonard’s jersey still said Spurs. All that’s changed is now it says Raptors. 

Yes, Toronto is covered if Leonard doesn’t report, refuses to play, or fakes an injury that would keep him out for an extended period. 

But I don’t think they can do anything if he acts out, doesn’t hustle, is not engaged, and otherwise is a PITA. He could come up lame with nagging injuries. An ankle, a knee, a back strain, whatever. He could opt to not go 100%. 

At this point Kawhi is a bit of a wildcard. No one really knows what he will do. Maybe he plays like a Top 3 player. Maybe he plays like a Top 100 player. Maybe he becomes a giant distraction and a cancer in the locker room. We just don’t know. And there is also a high probability he bolts after next year. Maybe it works out for the Raptors, but there is a lot of risk involved. 

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11 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I gave my perspective on this a couple pages ago when Leonard’s jersey still said Spurs. All that’s changed is now it says Raptors. 

Yes, Toronto is covered if Leonard doesn’t report, refuses to play, or fakes an injury that would keep him out for an extended period. 

But I don’t think they can do anything if he acts out, doesn’t hustle, is not engaged, and otherwise is a PITA. He could come up lame with nagging injuries. An ankle, a knee, a back strain, whatever. He could opt to not go 100%. 

At this point Kawhi is a bit of a wildcard. No one really knows what he will do. Maybe he plays like a Top 3 player. Maybe he plays like a Top 100 player. Maybe he becomes a giant distraction and a cancer in the locker room. We just don’t know. And there is also a high probability he bolts after next year. Maybe it works out for the Raptors, but there is a lot of risk involved. 

True.  If he bides his time LA could get a bargainnext off season without giving up any assets.  Just like they did with PG.

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2 minutes ago, Short Corner said:

True.  If he bides his time LA could get a bargainnext off season without giving up any assets.  Just like they did with PG.

They didn't get PG, but they got LeBron. Not sure anyone should be crying about who the Lakers didn't get. They will have ample cap space next year to sign another star. Maybe it's Kawhi, maybe it's someone else.

Still doesn't change that there is a lot of intrigue and mystery over which Leonard shows up to the North Land and how committed he will be to being one of the elite players in the league.

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21 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I gave my perspective on this a couple pages ago when Leonard’s jersey still said Spurs. All that’s changed is now it says Raptors. 

Yes, Toronto is covered if Leonard doesn’t report, refuses to play, or fakes an injury that would keep him out for an extended period. 

But I don’t think they can do anything if he acts out, doesn’t hustle, is not engaged, and otherwise is a PITA. He could come up lame with nagging injuries. An ankle, a knee, a back strain, whatever. He could opt to not go 100%. 

At this point Kawhi is a bit of a wildcard. No one really knows what he will do. Maybe he plays like a Top 3 player. Maybe he plays like a Top 100 player. Maybe he becomes a giant distraction and a cancer in the locker room. We just don’t know. And there is also a high probability he bolts after next year. Maybe it works out for the Raptors, but there is a lot of risk involved. 

there is risk, but there is also a pretty significant value to getting off of that DeRozan contract for Toronto's flexibility.  DeRozan is a very good at what he does, but their ceiling with him as one of the key players is limited and they didn't have a lot more ways to improve the team around him given their cap situation.

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How many guys out there have effectively taken their foot off the gas for two years only to end up returning to their original form after? MJ obviously...

Seems like there's a lot of risk to Kawhi mailing it in, especially if the end goal is both LA and the monster contract. What happens if while he's half assing it up in Toronto, another star becomes available that LeBron prefers?

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I guess Toronto's inability to find an outside coach who could claim to do better than Casey with this team made the move a no-brainer

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I'm excited for this trade, as a Spurs fan. Mostly it's just a sense of relief for the Spurs chapter of the Kawhi saga to be over. DeRozan is about as good as I think the Spurs could have hoped to do coming out of this mess, with a player who insisted on killing his trade value so much. The Spurs are not looking to rebuild and with LA, Boston and Philly being so cheap in trade talks I'm glad they found something of value somewhere. DeMar is no Kawhi Leonard but he is a proven scorer with tons of athletic ability and is known for being a hard worker who improves every year. With better coaching he may have a higher ceiling; hopefully he can step it up defensively and Chip can help him find a consistent three point shot.

It's a weird roster for San Antonio; they are sorely lacking defense and three point shooting now. Hopefully they can make another move to round out the lineup and stay genuinely competitive in the west.

Edited by drpill
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1 hour ago, PlasmaDogPlasma said:

Based on what?

 

On second thought, nevermind. :lmao:

A)  Well, Kawhi went to 7 different doctors, before deciding to stick with one of the lead surgeons who runs the Sixers medical team. They are still working together and have been for the majority of last year. This guy knows Kawhi's health better than the Spurs do

B) Williams has been in the Spurs org. for a few years and was there all last year. Brown coached Kawhi his first year or 2 in the league, and apparently they had a very good relationship.

 

But it is easier I guess to not be informed, so carry on

Edited by modogg

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2 hours ago, Insein said:

Toronto basically keeps themselves as the #1 seed and with no LeBron in the conference, you have to like their chances to go-to the Finals. Going to be a good battle between Toronto, Boston and Philly for the conference.

As much as I want it to be Philly, I'm not sure we'll be quite on the level of Toronto and Boston next year.  Both teams get a lot better next year over last year, and we didn't do a ton.  I'm hoping just general improvement of current guys (mainly Fultz) will get us close to them but I doubt we win the conference. 

Seems like (hopefully) we are just gearing up for the big offseason next year.

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3 minutes ago, Deamon said:

As much as I want it to be Philly, I'm not sure we'll be quite on the level of Toronto and Boston next year.  Both teams get a lot better next year over last year, and we didn't do a ton.  I'm hoping just general improvement of current guys (mainly Fultz) will get us close to them but I doubt we win the conference. 

Seems like (hopefully) we are just gearing up for the big offseason next year.

could have been a better off-season for the Sixers for sure, but I am just glad they didn't do something stupid and drop a dumb contract for multiple years because they felt like they had to do something. So could have been better, but could have been worse too. My glass half-full thinking tells me Brown and the Sixers staff (who visit Fultz twice a week) actually are saying the truth when they say he is looking like the kid they drafted, and if that is the case I think adding a quality Fultz is better then most options they had.

I also keep hearing McCollum's name kicked around, and some other players so they may be trying to make a move before the season. Personally I would rather them just get a quality GM and go from there

Edited by modogg
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7 minutes ago, drpill said:

I'm excited for this trade, as a Spurs fan. Mostly it's just a sense of relief for the Spurs chapter of the Kawhi saga to be over. DeRozan is about as good as I think the Spurs could have hoped to do coming out of this mess, with a player who insisted on killing his trade value so much. The Spurs are not looking to rebuild and with LA, Boston and Philly being so cheap in trade talks I'm glad they found something of value somewhere. DeMar is no Kawhi Leonard but he is a proven scorer with tons of athletic ability and is known for being a hard worker who improves every year. With better coaching he may have a higher ceiling; hopefully he can step it up defensively and Chip can help him find a consistent three point shot.

It's a weird roster for San Antonio; they are sorely lacking defense and three point shooting now. Hopefully they can make another move to round out the lineup and stay genuinely competitive in the west.

As a Spurs fan this was almost exactly my thoughts too.  Relief it is over was the overwhelming feeling.  But as I’ve had time to process it I’m most bummed about the Danny Green part of the deal. He was a very good defensive player and at times a top tier 3 point shooter. I also know he was Kahwi’s best friend on the team, it feels like he was part of the pitch to soften the blow of going to Toronto. 

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Just a reminder that you can't feel bad for DeMar getting traded and also be mad at KD for signing with the Warriors without being a total hypocrite. KD did the right thing. The hardest road. Let's go Dubs!!!

 

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6 minutes ago, Deamon said:

As much as I want it to be Philly, I'm not sure we'll be quite on the level of Toronto and Boston next year.  Both teams get a lot better next year over last year, and we didn't do a ton.  I'm hoping just general improvement of current guys (mainly Fultz) will get us close to them but I doubt we win the conference. 

Seems like (hopefully) we are just gearing up for the big offseason next year.

Embiid and Simmons improvement keeps them near the top. Fultz gives you anything resembling the #1 pick and he's a great addition. Saric and Covington don't regress and other pieces start to play (Korkmas etc) and the Sixers should be no worse than the 3 seed again. Playoff goal should be at least the ECF.

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I'm not sure what the other offers were, but the more I look at it, the more it seems like the other teams that were in the mix for Kawhi (Sixers/Lakers) know GS is winning next year, and are gearing up to compete in the following season. 

Kawhi will be a Laker, Philly and Toronto will both be coming off solid seasons and have the cap room to sign one of the big 2019 FAs, GS will drop off a bit but still be in the hunt.  League should be fun that year with LAL/HOU/GS battling out the West and PHI/TOR/BOS battling out the East.  Might be giving Toronto too much credit here actually though.

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2 minutes ago, Insein said:

Embiid and Simmons improvement keeps them near the top. Fultz gives you anything resembling the #1 pick and he's a great addition. Saric and Covington don't regress and other pieces start to play (Korkmas etc) and the Sixers should be no worse than the 3 seed again. Playoff goal should be at least the ECF.

Agreed that should be the goal.  We were the 4th best team in the East last year (I cannot say we were better than Cleveland), and should move up to easily the 3rd best team.  I just still think there's a gap behind the top 2 next year.  Once Kawhi leaves and Boston possibly loses someone to Free Agency and we sign someone big (all three of which are very good possibilities for next year), then we could be the favourites in the East.

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6 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

As a Spurs fan this was almost exactly my thoughts too.  Relief it is over was the overwhelming feeling.  But as I’ve had time to process it I’m most bummed about the Danny Green part of the deal. He was a very good defensive player and at times a top tier 3 point shooter. I also know he was Kahwi’s best friend on the team, it feels like he was part of the pitch to soften the blow of going to Toronto. 

Yeah, it's disappointing to see Danny go. Raps are getting a great guy, even if his shooting has fallen off the last couple of years. Moreover the Spurs are losing a lot of "corporate knowledge" this season, with Green, Parker, probably Ginobili gone. It's a huge transition year for them.

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The most interesting aspect of this could end up with DeRozan as the Spurs' de facto PG. Dejounte, DWhite & Lonnie Walkinghair IV are all promising guard talents but none as ball-dominant as DDR, who i think would have taken that position in Toronto but for Lowry

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For those that take stock and have faith in both wins above replacement and 538's predictive modeling, here's how they have things shaping up in the East for the upcoming season. If you want more insight on how they came up with their numbers, projections, and methodologies, go read up on their site. So don't shoot the messenger . . .

WINS ABOVE REPLACEMENT BY PLAYER:

RAPTORS:
Lowry +7.5
Leonard +5.6
Anunoby +2.9
VanVleet +2.7
Wright +2.5
Green +1.5
Siakam +1.4
Nogueira +1.4
Valanciunas +1.1
Ibaka +0.6
Miles +0.3
Powell -0.2
Richardson -0.1
TEAM TOTAL: +27.2

CELTICS:
Tatum +6.5
Irving +5.3
Horford +3.5
Smart +3.3
Brown +2.6
Rozier +2.5
Hayward +2.2
Theis +0.7
Yabusele +0.3
Morris +0.1
Larkin +0.1
Williams 0
Baynes -0.3
Nader -0.7
Ojeyle -1.6
TEAM TOTAL: +24.5

SIXERS:
Simmons +8.8
Covington +5.2
Embid +4.8
Saric +2.2
Johnson +1.4
Redick +1.0
Holmes +0.5
McConnell +0.3
Chandler 0
Fultz 0
Anderson 0
Smith 0
Luwawu -0.2
Shamet -0.3
Bayless -0.5
TEAM TOTAL: +23.2

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27 minutes ago, Deamon said:

Agreed that should be the goal.  We were the 4th best team in the East last year (I cannot say we were better than Cleveland), and should move up to easily the 3rd best team.  I just still think there's a gap behind the top 2 next year.  Once Kawhi leaves and Boston possibly loses someone to Free Agency and we sign someone big (all three of which are very good possibilities for next year), then we could be the favourites in the East.

I love Toronto as a city but why would an NBA player sign there? Star players can make up taxes paid off the court in NY and LA, what makes Toronto different?

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4 minutes ago, metoo said:

I love Toronto as a city but why would an NBA player sign there? Star players can make up taxes paid off the court in NY and LA, what makes Toronto different?

Ya you're right.  Like I mentioned in another post, I'm probably giving toronto too much credit as a destination.  Just mean that a team that might win the East, and can sign you to a huge contract, could be a possible desirable destination.  I wouldn't say there's NO chance a player would sign there.

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3 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Toronto should just trade Leonard to the Lakers now for some combo of Ball, Kuzma and Ingram.

If the Lakers wouldn't offer those guys to the Spurs, why would they offer them to the Raptors if they feel they can pick up Kawhi next year without parting with any assets?

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12 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

For those that take stock and have faith in both wins above replacement and 538's predictive modeling, here's how they have things shaping up in the East for the upcoming season. If you want more insight on how they came up with their numbers, projections, and methodologies, go read up on their site. So don't shoot the messenger . . .

WINS ABOVE REPLACEMENT BY PLAYER:

RAPTORS:
Lowry +7.5
Leonard +5.6
Anunoby +2.9
VanVleet +2.7
Wright +2.5
Green +1.5
Siakam +1.4
Nogueira +1.4
Valanciunas +1.1
Ibaka +0.6
Miles +0.3
Powell -0.2
Richardson -0.1
TEAM TOTAL: +27.2

CELTICS:
Tatum +6.5
Irving +5.3
Horford +3.5
Smart +3.3
Brown +2.6
Rozier +2.5
Hayward +2.2
Theis +0.7
Yabusele +0.3
Morris +0.1
Larkin +0.1
Williams 0
Baynes -0.3
Nader -0.7
Ojeyle -1.6
TEAM TOTAL: +24.5

SIXERS:
Simmons +8.8
Covington +5.2
Embid +4.8
Saric +2.2
Johnson +1.4
Redick +1.0
Holmes +0.5
McConnell +0.3
Chandler 0
Fultz 0
Anderson 0
Smith 0
Luwawu -0.2
Shamet -0.3
Bayless -0.5
TEAM TOTAL: +23.2

Interesting.  What was Derozen?

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Just now, Anarchy99 said:

If the Lakers wouldn't offer those guys to the Spurs, why would they offer them to the Raptors if they feel they can pick up Kawhi next year without parting with any assets?

I think maybe his assumption is that the Lakers maybe DID make that offer but Pops didn't want to send him to LA.

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18 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

For those that take stock and have faith in both wins above replacement and 538's predictive modeling, here's how they have things shaping up in the East for the upcoming season. If you want more insight on how they came up with their numbers, projections, and methodologies, go read up on their site. So don't shoot the messenger . . .

WINS ABOVE REPLACEMENT BY PLAYER:

RAPTORS:
Lowry +7.5
Leonard +5.6
Anunoby +2.9
VanVleet +2.7
Wright +2.5
Green +1.5
Siakam +1.4
Nogueira +1.4
Valanciunas +1.1
Ibaka +0.6
Miles +0.3
Powell -0.2
Richardson -0.1
TEAM TOTAL: +27.2

CELTICS:
Tatum +6.5
Irving +5.3
Horford +3.5
Smart +3.3
Brown +2.6
Rozier +2.5
Hayward +2.2
Theis +0.7
Yabusele +0.3
Morris +0.1
Larkin +0.1
Williams 0
Baynes -0.3
Nader -0.7
Ojeyle -1.6
TEAM TOTAL: +24.5

SIXERS:
Simmons +8.8
Covington +5.2
Embid +4.8
Saric +2.2
Johnson +1.4
Redick +1.0
Holmes +0.5
McConnell +0.3
Chandler 0
Fultz 0
Anderson 0
Smith 0
Luwawu -0.2
Shamet -0.3
Bayless -0.5
TEAM TOTAL: +23.2

sheesh, Sami Ojeyle not getting much love. I would trade Bayliss for Ojeyle in a heartbeat

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1 minute ago, modogg said:

sheesh, Sami Ojeyle not getting much love. I would trade Bayliss for Ojeyle in a heartbeat

Their whole methodology is pretty complicated. From my limited knowledge and understanding, they come up with a number for each player based on offense and defense. Then they adjust it based on what position they play. The first numbers are based off of historical data both from the player directly and historical norms based on age. Then they came up with the number of minutes they see each player actually being on the court to come up with an adjusted, weighted number.

They really don't love Gordon Hayward, as they don't see him returning to form or playing a huge amount of minutes. He was at +7.3 the past two seasons. Now they only have him at +2.2. That's five wins different. Maybe they know more than the rest of us, but if he is healthy and plays, I don't see someone like Smart being worth more than Hayward and being the 7th most valuable Celtics player.

Overall, I find it an interesting thing to review but personally I am not sold on some of their conclusions. Here's everyone they have worth 6+ wins.

Russell Westbrook - 12.4
James Harden - 11.8
LeBron James - 11.5
Giannis Antetokounmpo - 9.8
Stephen Curry - 9.6
Chris Paul - 9.1
Ben Simmons - 8.8
Nikola Jokic - 8.3
Jimmy Butler - 8.3
Anthony Davis - 8.2
Damian Lillard - 8.1
Victor Oladipo - 7.7
Karl-Anthony Towns - 7.6
Kyle Lowry - 7.5
Draymond Green - 7
Otto Porter Jr. - 7
Kevin Durant - 6.8
Jayson Tatum - 6.5
Kemba Walker - 6.3
Paul George - 6.2
DeMarcus Cousins - 6.0

Not sure in what universe Otto Porter is worth more than Kevin Durant . . .

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18 minutes ago, Deamon said:

Ya you're right.  Like I mentioned in another post, I'm probably giving toronto too much credit as a destination.  Just mean that a team that might win the East, and can sign you to a huge contract, could be a possible desirable destination.  I wouldn't say there's NO chance a player would sign there.

I feel your pain. Athletes love sleeping with Atlanta strippers but they won't sign here.

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39 minutes ago, Boston said:

Looks like Smart maybe returning...and for around the offer they are rumored to have given him a year ago...

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/celtics-negotiations-marcus-smart-four-year-deal

would love to have Maaaacus Smaaaat back for an elevenish number, esp if its loaded so that this year isnt the Celts first in the tax (goodbye Dancing Bear?), which is what made them cagey with him all along.

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This dispatch from ESPN.com's Michael C. Wright during an appearance on the Back to Back podcast looms large (h/t Def Pen Hoops' Rob Lopez):

"Well, contrary to, and I don't know if it's changed. I think that's what happened. Things have changed. But the Lakers are not Kawhi's preferred destination anymore. He wants to go to the Clippers. He doesn't want to go and be second fiddle to LeBron. That's what I was told. And [it] was by somebody that would know. And so right now, the Clippers are where he wants to go. But I'm also told, like you know, I talked to people within the Spurs organization and they're like, 'well yeah he wants to go to the Clippers, but their assets are s--t at this point.' That’s what I was told."

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