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Contractor red flag - should I dump him? (1 Viewer)

Galileo

Galileo

Footballguy
I am in the market to replace my concrete driveway.  I have tried 5 contractors thus far.  One never returned my call.  Another never showed up to look at the job to provide an estimate.  Three of them came to my house.  Of the three that actually showed up to look at the job, one never gave me the estimate (its been 2 1/2 weeks).  That leaves me with 2 estimates which are about $4k apart.  The company that gave me the lower estimate didn't provide me that estimate until 5 days after they said they would.  The owner called me and apologized and said he was interested in the job and gave me whatever his story was for not being timely with the estimate.  OK, fine, I like the fact that they are significantly cheaper and I decide to overlook the tardiness.  I tell this guy lets move forward.  He says he wants to come look at the job himself to make sure we are on the same page.  It was his son (looked to be in his early 20s) who came by to take the initial measurements and discuss the job.  We set up Monday (yesterday) as the day to meet.  He said he would call and plan to come by at the end of the work day...late afternoon or early evening.  No problem.   Well, Monday comes and goes.  No call.  Did not come to the house.  I have got to bail on this company, right?  They have F'd up twice now, during the time they should be trying to impress me to win my business.   It would be nice to actually get the job done for $4k less though.

 
Galileo said:
I am in the market to replace my concrete driveway.  I have tried 5 contractors thus far.  One never returned my call.  Another never showed up to look at the job to provide an estimate.  Three of them came to my house.  Of the three that actually showed up to look at the job, one never gave me the estimate (its been 2 1/2 weeks).  That leaves me with 2 estimates which are about $4k apart.  The company that gave me the lower estimate didn't provide me that estimate until 5 days after they said they would.  The owner called me and apologized and said he was interested in the job and gave me whatever his story was for not being timely with the estimate.  OK, fine, I like the fact that they are significantly cheaper and I decide to overlook the tardiness.  I tell this guy lets move forward.  He says he wants to come look at the job himself to make sure we are on the same page.  It was his son (looked to be in his early 20s) who came by to take the initial measurements and discuss the job.  We set up Monday (yesterday) as the day to meet.  He said he would call and plan to come by at the end of the work day...late afternoon or early evening.  No problem.   Well, Monday comes and goes.  No call.  Did not come to the house.  I have got to bail on this company, right?  They have F'd up twice now, during the time they should be trying to impress me to win my business.   It would be nice to actually get the job done for $4k less though.
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Not two years down the road when you find out through failure that he used substandard concrete.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Not two years down the road when you find out through failure that he used substandard concrete.
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Yes that ran through my mind.  That is why I was looking forward to meeting with him to discuss some of the details.  But this work has to pass inspection by the city (not that they analyze the concrete mixture).  The company has no negative reviews on Angie's list and nothing of issue with the BBB.

 
I probably overreact to being inconsiderate in some everyday things....its a pet peeve of mine.....but a no call no show is often a deal breaker for me...especially when you are dealing with something like this that is pretty important to you and involves a ton of cash...

 
Is it something with concrete contractors?  I wanted to get a step fixed 5+ years ago.  Got names from friends.  First guy would never call back.  Moved on from him to another guy who kept putting me off, never showed up.  Finally went with another dad from our kids baseball team.  He kept putting me off, finally stopped over to look at the step and spent the afternoon building a wooden step over the concrete and said it would hold until he could come back to actually do the concrete.  He never came back and I never paid him a dime.  :shrug:  

 
it sends the message that it is not very important to them.....not a great feeling to have when this dude and his company are going to do something that is pretty important to you and you will be putting some serious cash into....what else won't be very important to them once they get started...?

unfortunaltely in a lot of ways, this is kind of how these guys operate and its always kind of scatttered and all over the place.....they probably know they will still get 3 gigs for every 1 they lose....especially if they low ball...

 
Knee jerk, their offer is so much lower because they take an extreme volume approach to their sales.  They over extend themselves with a limited staff and 'cost effective' resources then if unable to meet demand they just call it a day and don't follow up.  As long as they keep their prices down there will be another customer to replace your lost business.  Short sighted, sure, but it must be working for them.  For now anyway.

You pay for what you get - just understand the risks associated with saving a few bucks now, but it reads like you already know that.

 
MAC_32 said:
Knee jerk, their offer is so much lower because they take an extreme volume approach to their sales.  They over extend themselves with a limited staff and 'cost effective' resources then if unable to meet demand they just call it a day and don't follow up.  As long as they keep their prices down there will be another customer to replace your lost business.  Short sighted, sure, but it must be working for them.  For now anyway.

You pay for what you get - just understand the risks associated with saving a few bucks now, but it reads like you already know that.
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You know the NE Ohio area.  This company is located in Chagrin Falls and has been in business for 33 years.  I wouldn't expect them to have survived like that with shoddy business practices. 

 
Galileo said:
You know the NE Ohio area.  This company is located in Chagrin Falls and has been in business for 33 years.  I wouldn't expect them to have survived like that with shoddy business practices. 
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Given your experience, the bolded is certainly an eyebrow raiser.  Immediate thought, is the 2nd generation running the show now.  

 
Galileo said:
These guys must be overflowing with work.  5 companies...and I have 1 viable option?
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Contractors are usually busy and one thing I've noticed with many of them is that they are not that great at actually running a business.  They may do great work but they have no idea how the business side of it works.  Most of these guys grew up working for someone else and then eventually decided they can make more money working for themselves.  They have very little experience managing a business.  Most of the guys I know start with trying to do all the book work and scheduling themselves or get their wives to do it.  If they remain successful they eventually hire a professional book keeper. 

 
I wouldnt call it a red flag. They are probably VERY busy. Its common around here too. Probably a good thing how busy they are. That being said, I wouldnt fault you for moving on if thats what you feel like doing.

 
I've been trying to get someone to do my driveway for 2 years. Job isn't huge, widening driveway from one space to two and replacing a wall(assuming less than 15K).  I've only been able to get two guys to the house and neither gave an estimate. They are so busy they just don't need the work, they don't need to impress anyone unfortunately because they have a huge backlog of jobs. Coming to the realization that my job is just to small for them to give a crap about.  :kicksrock:

 
shadyridr said:
I wouldnt call it a red flag. They are probably VERY busy. Its common around here too. Probably a good thing how busy they are. That being said, I wouldnt fault you for moving on if thats what you feel like doing.
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And if this were the case, it would be nice to save the $4k.  But a phone call to say "I just can't make it today can we reschedule for ____ " would be nice.  It be nice to have a 3rd estimate to know how high or low these quotes are.  But that may require contacting 5 more companies.   :loco:

 
Contractors are super busy right now. Keep calling until you get more estimates. You need to know if the $4K discount is an outlier or not.

 
Bull Dozier said:
Considering a career change.  This thread is making me think becoming a concrete contractor would provide a steady stream of available work.
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Building homes or doing handy man work usually provides a steady stream of work.  Be prepared to work your butt off though.

 
Bull Dozier said:
Considering a career change.  This thread is making me think becoming a concrete contractor would provide a steady stream of available work.
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Not a bad idea.  All the trades are severely lacking good people in many parts of the country.  A buddy of mine owns a small (8 employee) remodeling business in Madison WI area and he's always looking for competent carpenters.  He's been swamped for the last couple of years with jobs he's bidding out now he may get to by the end of the year.  He's legit 6 months or more out and he said all his contractor buddies are the same.  And he's struggling find good quality employees to expand other than the good ones he currently has.

 
Pipes said:
They are at least my neck of the woods.  All the trades companies are short handed especially now with the economy rolling and a housing shortage everyone is busy.  That's why I think a lot of high schoolers need to look at the trades instead of a 4 year college.
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like this....I work at a local community college and there is a huge need in all the CTE programs....some of these kids could be making serious bank after a two year stint at a community college...

 
I have a friend in the Akron area who does waterproofing. I will ask him if he can recommend someone and get back to you.

 
Pipes said:
They are at least my neck of the woods.  All the trades companies are short handed especially now with the economy rolling and a housing shortage everyone is busy.  That's why I think a lot of high schoolers need to look at the trades instead of a 4 year college.
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The funny thing is, everyone agrees with this... for other people's kids. 

 
Unfortunately for us consumers, the economy is thriving and it's a sellers market.

Your driveway is a substantial cost to you ... but small potatoes to these guys. They just can't be bothered when they have bigger jobs paying 10x what a driveway is worth.

Right now these guys can pick and choose what jobs they want. That's why they don't bother to call back ... or come and fail to give an estimate. They don't want the job.

The guy that quoted +$4k probably didn't really want the job either ... but if you're willing to cough up an extra $4k then I'm sure he will be interested.

Is this helping at all G?

 
Stinkin Ref said:
I probably overreact to being inconsiderate in some everyday things....its a pet peeve of mine.....but a no call no show is often a deal breaker for me...especially when you are dealing with something like this that is pretty important to you and involves a ton of cash...
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I agree.

Also you want to make sure he finishes the job after he starts.  It would suck if he rips up your driveway and then disappears.  I would pay extra for reliable and professional service when it comes to contractors.  There are way too many morons in that field.  The guy who is professional, on time, gets the job done when he says he will, and does quality work is worth more than the other estimates you get.  I almost never go with the cheapest estimate when hiring contractors.  Only 1 time recently did the lowest estimate coincide with the best quality contractor (replacing the AC and heating units in my apartment).

 
Bossman said:
Unfortunately for us consumers, the economy is thriving and it's a sellers market.

Your driveway is a substantial cost to you ... but small potatoes to these guys. They just can't be bothered when they have bigger jobs paying 10x what a driveway is worth.

Right now these guys can pick and choose what jobs they want. That's why they don't bother to call back ... or come and fail to give an estimate. They don't want the job.

The guy that quoted +$4k probably didn't really want the job either ... but if you're willing to cough up an extra $4k then I'm sure he will be interested.

Is this helping at all G?
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I hear ya, but why not when I call just say "sorry not interested, we are too busy".  I'd be fine with that and move along.  It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me to come out measure and discuss the job and then never provide an estimate.  Why waste that time?   Why provide a quote, tell the consumer you want the job and then blow off the scheduled meeting to get the ball rolling?   Is it too much to ask for an honest/straight forward responses?  The higher quote guy was pretty upfront telling me that he wouldn't be able to get to it until Sept/Oct.  He didn't string me along in anyway.  That gives me info, and I can weigh that info in my decision.

Anyway, I made calls to 4 more companies this afternoon.  At this point, I just want to get another quote to properly evaluate the others.  Left 2 voicemails...1 message with a live person who told me "Frank will get back to you"...and The 4th guy I talked to was out on a job and asked me to text him my name and address.  He said he does his estimate work on Saturdays and he'll get back to me.  So, let's see where these lead.  

 
I haven't read through the thread, so it's probably been said already, but I would ask your neighbors for recommendations.  If you work with a company that knows you found them through a recommendation, they will understand that doing a good job for you is going to affect multiple relationships with the customers.  Hopefully, they will place some importance on your job because of that. 

 
I just had my entire house repiped. The most important thing for me was referrals and reputation. Price was important, but piece of mind and confidence that the job would be done correctly and on time was more important. I went with a guy that was higher end  price wise, buuut, since he did my neighbor's house 2 years ago and that was a huge reason I chose him, he gave me the same, 2 year old price, when he did my neighbor's house. So he ended up being slightly cheaper than 2 other estimates.  Final inspection was yesterday and he texted me to make sure everything went well. Good ones are out there, you just have dig for them and pay for them. 

 
I coulda sworn there was a thread on this type of thing a little while back where basically everyone (except people here who are contractors) was #####ing about how they all suck and have the absolute worst communication skills.  

It really does make it impossible to decide who to go with when even the good ones are terrible at communication.  

 
Well, now here is a new one.  I just got a call from the guy who didn't show on Monday.  He says he got heat sickness yesterday.  He said his whole crew was suffering from heat exhaustion and they had to quit early on the job they were at.  He says he couldn't do anything but go go home and collapse.    :rolleyes:

 
Galileo said:
Well, now here is a new one.  I just got a call from the guy who didn't show on Monday.  He says he got heat sickness yesterday.  He said his whole crew was suffering from heat exhaustion and they had to quit early on the job they were at.  He says he couldn't do anything but go go home and collapse.    :rolleyes:
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Doing the work they do with how humid it's been, it's actually possible. Most non-union guys are terrible at staying hydrated and cooled off.

 
I think it's safe to say that you wouldn't  want to hire guys that aren't professional enough to understand the basic importance of hydration for their occupation---on top of them not understanding the importance of contacting a potential client when they need to flake on a standing appointment.  I wouldn't hire this contractor to change a light bulb. Move on to somebody else and don't look back.

 
jwb said:
The funny thing is, everyone agrees with this... for other people's kids. 
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Not necessarily.  I know a bunch of people that realize 4 year college isn't best for their children. Especially if they can go to a tech school for a year or two then get a good paying job with the possibility of running their own business in 10 years or so.

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
I think it's safe to say that you wouldn't  want to hire guys that aren't professional enough to understand the basic importance of hydration for their occupation---on top of them not understanding the importance of contacting a potential client when they need to flake on a standing appointment.  I wouldn't hire this contractor to change a light bulb. Move on to somebody else and don't look back.
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yep...I've moved on.  Just not sure where to yet.  lol

 
jwb said:
The funny thing is, everyone agrees with this... for other people's kids. 
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They are stupid then.  Having a successful contractor child as you get old would be awesome.

 
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