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Brett Favre seeks to end youth tackle football (1 Viewer)

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Footballguy
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/20/brett-favre-seeks-to-end-youth-tackle-football/

Brett Favre is remembered for his Hall of Fame football career, but if he has his way, he’ll also be known as much for ending youth tackle football in America. The former NFL MVP has become the face of the movement.

“I think it’s going to take someone who has poured his blood, sweat and tears into it,” Favre told Alex Raskin of the Daily Mail.

Favre supports a proposed Illinois bill that would make it illegal for kids under 12 to play tackle football. The Dave Duerson Act to Prevent CTE does not have enough support to pass, per Raskin.

But Favre wants federal legislation.

“The state level is a start, but we have to adopt this plan and all do it together,” he said. “The body, the brain, the skull is not developed in your teens and single digits. I cringe. I see these little kids get tackled, and the helmet is bigger than everything else on the kid combined. They look like they’re going to break in half.”

President Donald Trump did not help Favre’s cause in September when he claimed the NFL’s new rules aimed at decreasing the number of concussions are “ruining the game.”

Favre respectfully disagrees.

“The President can say what he wants,” Favre said. “It is a serious issue, and it needs to be dealt with.”

Favre openly has talked about his concerns about chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) after taking the number of hits he took in a 20-year, 302-game NFL career. He has said he was diagnosed with “three or four” concussions during his career but guesses he had “probably thousands.”

Here in Oklahoma where football is the number 1 sport the numbers for youth players have declined drastically over the past few seasons.  The largest organization in Oklahoma the INFC has roughly 50% participation this year compared to 3 years ago.  More families are choosing to play lacrosse and soccer rather than football per the INFC offices.  Chad Lott the head of the INFC stated many years ago that he thought youth football would be dead by 2025.  Most of the guys I know who have played past high school level have all stated that they think football should not start till 7th grade at the earliest.    We will see. 

 
I'm surprised this doesn't have any replies yet, I think it's going to end up being significant news, that may well eventually be seen as a key impetus for the really big changes it seems are eventually coming for football.

If Favre is serious about seeing this through to the federal level, his voice and reputation will give it a lot of momentum. Props to him, seriously.

 
I feel like he's tilting at windmills at this point.  I think it will happen sometime down the road, but this is such a drastic change, and would have a huge financial impact, it is going to take a long time to get through.

I think it eventually happens though.  This probably belongs in the "what are we doing now that we will find archaic in 50 years" thread.

 
E-Z Glider said:
I dont know what the answer is, but this isnt it. Being a good player at flag football requires and entirely different skillset than being good player at tackle football.
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Agreed. Half the players today would effectively not be needed or be useful in flag or 7 on 7.

 
E-Z Glider said:
I dont know what the answer is, but this isnt it. Being a good player at flag football requires and entirely different skillset than being good player at tackle football.
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I can't think of a single skill in football that needs to be curated through grade school and middle school in order to be successful at the high school level, outside of a QB learning how to read a defense (and even that can be taught later).  Football is all about being an athelete, and there aren't many football specific skills that requires years of training to be able to play at the pro level like hitting a curve ball, kicking a soccer ball, or shooting a puck while skating does.

 
Bull Dozier said:
I can't think of a single skill in football that needs to be curated through grade school and middle school in order to be successful at the high school level, outside of a QB learning how to read a defense (and even that can be taught later).  Football is all about being an athelete, and there aren't many football specific skills that requires years of training to be able to play at the pro level like hitting a curve ball, kicking a soccer ball, or shooting a puck while skating does.
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100% agreed.  If you're athletic or big they will find a spot for you on a HS team.  Not too many (if any) other sports are like that

 
mozzy84 said:
100% agreed.  If you're athletic or big they will find a spot for you on a HS team.  Not too many (if any) other sports are like that
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The NFL is littered with players who started playing as a junior or senior in high school (or later).  Other than a couple notable exceptions, that doesn't really happen in the other major sports.

 
mozzy84 said:
100% agreed.  If you're athletic or big they will find a spot for you on a HS team.  Not too many (if any) other sports are like that
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Got a friend with a son who has never played football entering into his Sophomore year. He's 6' 3" and about 300lbs, and he makes good grades in school.. My buddy has talked to a few college coaches just to gauge interest and they said, even though he's never played a down of football (he thought this would be a deterrent), "every coach in the country is interested in 6' 3" and 300lbs. But when he told him he was just a sophomore, the coach said "well, I won't get him then, Coach Saban or Coach Orgeron will end up with him" :lol:  

 
Bull Dozier said:
I can't think of a single skill in football that needs to be curated through grade school and middle school in order to be successful at the high school level, outside of a QB learning how to read a defense (and even that can be taught later).  Football is all about being an athelete, and there aren't many football specific skills that requires years of training to be able to play at the pro level like hitting a curve ball, kicking a soccer ball, or shooting a puck while skating does.
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It's not so much about skills as it is the only sport where the beefy kids can make a contribution. There's room on the baseball team for a couple, but football is where it's at for the big kids.

And skill-wise, I think it's moderately important.  You learn a lot in jr. high football, at least I did.  :shrug:

 
Even if Favre isn't successful, many parents just aren't letting their kids play anyway. I know I'm  not. Not worth the risk nowadays. Yea we all played when we were Young but honestly I stopped playing after 2 years of peewee football (age 8-10). Played again as a freshman. Stopped because I saw stars after a nasty hit in practice. Then played again Junior and senior year. 

Don't need to fear every impact as my son goes through it. He's not going to the NFL. Just not worth it.

 
Radio Free Homer said:
It's not so much about skills as it is the only sport where the beefy kids can make a contribution. There's room on the baseball team for a couple, but football is where it's at for the big kids.

And skill-wise, I think it's moderately important.  You learn a lot in jr. high football, at least I did.  :shrug:
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Those big beefy kids can play flag too.  Doing some more running and learning skills like coverage, catching, running routes, etc, isn't going to hurt anyone.  And I'm not sympathetic to an argument encouraging big kids to get bigger rather than running around and being more active.  I know that's not exactly what you are saying, but I would prefer situations that encourage the reduction of childhood obesity, rather than building more opportunities for big kids to succeed at being big.

As to your second point, I'm not saying you don't learn anything in junior high.  I'm saying you don't learn (much of) anything in junior high that you can't also learn in high school, and not be so far behind the curve it hurts your development.  Football is all about athleticism, and the best atheletes are going to succeed, even if they start later.

 
Arizona Ron said:
BassNBrew said:
Good.

Personally feel soccer is far more dangerous at the high school level than football.
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How so?
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Upon further review I guess I'm wrong.  I'm personally seen some gruesome leg injuries and there's almost always one player out per team dealing with a concussion issue.  I think what influenced my opinion was the higher injury rate in high school completion relative to club ball.  Unskilled players and poor refs in high school ball lead to out of control play.

 
BassNBrew said:
Upon further review I guess I'm wrong.  I'm personally seen some gruesome leg injuries and there's almost always one player out per team dealing with a concussion issue.  I think what influenced my opinion was the higher injury rate in high school completion relative to club ball.  Unskilled players and poor refs in high school ball lead to out of control play.
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I thought I had read there are more concussions in high school soccer than in football?  Relative safety probably is probably determined in how you are measuring.

 
Bull Dozier said:
I feel like he's tilting at windmills at this point.  I think it will happen sometime down the road, but this is such a drastic change, and would have a huge financial impact, it is going to take a long time to get through.

I think it eventually happens though.  This probably belongs in the "what are we doing now that we will find archaic in 50 years" thread.
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I'm with you on this.    I think we are already starting to see the slow, gradual death of football as we know it... and it's probably a good thing.

It's a bummer because it's something I grew up with.. even played frosh and soph football (poorly).

Even my high school which was a prominent football power for years is starting to see a decline in the sport.   The school (private catholic all dudes school) now pretty much specializes in the country club sports..  they crush soccer, diving, lacrosse, golf, tennis.

 
One of my friends has been a HS football HC for over 20 years at a school where they usually win their division 3 out of 4 years.  Lots of winning tradition.  15 years ago he said they used to carry 40 varsity players with almost the same on freshman and JV.   Now he struggles to get 25 varsity players and the same with freshman and JV.  Even though enrollment is up.  So he has less depth and more of the better players going both ways.

Told me that he thinks in 10 years they may have trouble fielding a team and the decline is sharp.   If I had a young son I would not want him playing football.

I remember I started a game as a soph in HS and tackled an All-State RB and was kneed in the head..when I got up I was looking out the ear hole of my too big helmet and had double vision in my right eye...coach said just give it a minute and then get back in there.

 
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Da Guru said:
One of my friends has been a HS football HC for over 20 years at a school where they usually win their division 3 out of 4 years.  Lots of winning tradition.  15 years ago he said they used to carry 40 varsity players with almost the same on freshman and JV.   Now he struggles to get 25 varsity players and the same with freshman and JV.  Even though enrollment is up.  So he has less depth and more of the better plaers going both ways.

Told me that he thinks in 10 years they may have trouble fielding a team and the decline is sharp.   If I had a young son I would not want him playing football.

I remember I started a game as a soph in HS and tackled an All-State RB and was kneed in the head..when I got up I was looking out the ear hole of my too big helmet and had double vision in my right eye...coach said just give it a minute and then get back in there.
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Is the high school participation decline being seen in the places the major colleges recruit from, like South Florida, Texas, So Cal, etc?  Is the decline more apparent in the 'burb schools?  Or is it everywhere?

 
proteus126 said:
Is the high school participation decline being seen in the places the major colleges recruit from, like South Florida, Texas, So Cal, etc?  Is the decline more apparent in the 'burb schools?  Or is it everywhere?
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Not sure...but I would think it will be a social-economic thing in the future if it is not already.  The more educated parents become the less participation in football at younger ages.   I mean would you have you son boxing in a gym everyday at 10?

Football will draw from the same class as boxing, MMA. People looking for a way out and wiling to sacrifice their bodies to do it.

 
The decline in high school participation is correlating pretty closely with the red/blue political divide in the country. Participation is up a little in the deep south, down, sometimes sharply, in places like California and Massachusetts. There's a chart out there online somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it up later. 

 
BassNBrew said:
Upon further review I guess I'm wrong.  I'm personally seen some gruesome leg injuries and there's almost always one player out per team dealing with a concussion issue.  I think what influenced my opinion was the higher injury rate in high school completion relative to club ball.  Unskilled players and poor refs in high school ball lead to out of control play.
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You're not wholly wrong. There's really bad high school soccer out there and head injuries in high school soccer are high. Kids come out for fun, didn't have the proper coaching on heading or challenging for the ball. It can absolutely be worse than high school football

 
I haven't read studies but is youth football that dangerous?  Hell when my son first played at age 10 the helmet and pads were so big there really wasn't many violent collusions because the kids just weren't moving all that fast. It seemed like his last year of flag football was worse because kids were aggressively going after flags and colliding with defenseless players. Flag football isn't just nicely reaching out and trying to grab the flag.

And I'm not sure banning it until age 12 is the way to go.  Actually middle school is when football starts to get real dangerous.  You always have the handful of 12 year olds that hit puberty early that are running about the field with pecks, triceps and a faint mustache.  Those kids are monsters and wrecking other kids.

Look you are either pro or anti football but eliminating tackle until age 12 doesn't really solve the problem football is facing in my opinion. 

 
The Gator said:
BassNBrew said:
Upon further review I guess I'm wrong.  I'm personally seen some gruesome leg injuries and there's almost always one player out per team dealing with a concussion issue.  I think what influenced my opinion was the higher injury rate in high school completion relative to club ball.  Unskilled players and poor refs in high school ball lead to out of control play.
Click to expand...
You're not wholly wrong. There's really bad high school soccer out there and head injuries in high school soccer are high. Kids come out for fun, didn't have the proper coaching on heading or challenging for the ball. It can absolutely be worse than high school football
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That's what I was thinking when I posted.  That said, the stats don't back me up showing 2-3x the injury rate for football.  That said, girls soccer is the second highest sport for injury rate.  Also soccer concussions are increasing and evidently football concussions are decreasing due to "heads up" coaching.  I know two kids that had to quit soccer in consecutive years due to concussions and have seen several ACL/MCL injuries ending seasons.

 
The Gator said:
You're not wholly wrong. There's really bad high school soccer out there and head injuries in high school soccer are high. Kids come out for fun, didn't have the proper coaching on heading or challenging for the ball. It can absolutely be worse than high school football
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A doctor in my area has been advocating for youth soccer to wear some sort of head protection for years.

 
Da Guru said:
One of my friends has been a HS football HC for over 20 years at a school where they usually win their division 3 out of 4 years.  Lots of winning tradition.  15 years ago he said they used to carry 40 varsity players with almost the same on freshman and JV.   Now he struggles to get 25 varsity players and the same with freshman and JV.  Even though enrollment is up.  So he has less depth and more of the better plaers going both ways.

Told me that he thinks in 10 years they may have trouble fielding a team and the decline is sharp.   If I had a young son I would not want him playing football.

I remember I started a game as a soph in HS and tackled an All-State RB and was kneed in the head..when I got up I was looking out the ear hole of my too big helmet and had double vision in my right eye...coach said just give it a minute and then get back in there.
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I have a friend who has coached high school football for 20+ years as well.  He spend 10+ at a school where the population was mostly hispanic, black, then asian, then white.  He struggled to field much of a program, but was convinved if he could get his youth program to go flag through middle school, he'd have a huge feeder system.

Not every grade school/middle school kid loves to strap on the pads and knock people around, or get knocked around, but do you know many kids of that ago that don't love to play football in the backyard with their friends?  I think making the youth program all flag is going to increase the level of participation by getting all of those kids in, and you might keep some that learn they have the skills to succeed at a higher level.  You won't lose kids who want more contact, they are still going to play.

 
Pipes said:
I haven't read studies but is youth football that dangerous?  Hell when my son first played at age 10 the helmet and pads were so big there really wasn't many violent collusions because the kids just weren't moving all that fast. It seemed like his last year of flag football was worse because kids were aggressively going after flags and colliding with defenseless players. Flag football isn't just nicely reaching out and trying to grab the flag.

And I'm not sure banning it until age 12 is the way to go.  Actually middle school is when football starts to get real dangerous.  You always have the handful of 12 year olds that hit puberty early that are running about the field with pecks, triceps and a faint mustache.  Those kids are monsters and wrecking other kids.

Look you are either pro or anti football but eliminating tackle until age 12 doesn't really solve the problem football is facing in my opinion. 
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From my own personal, albeit limited, experience, most of the danger is due to the vast range of skills and physical abilities by the kids playing at that age.  It seems mose kids fall in the bell curve of strength and speed, but most teams have that one kid who is just a monster.  These players are involved in head and or neck injuries from tackles and stiff arms.  Regardless of rules aimed at reducing these injuries, or the emphasis put on propper tackling techniques, mistakes and poor coaching still happen and lead to injuries.

 
Da Guru said:
One of my friends has been a HS football HC for over 20 years at a school where they usually win their division 3 out of 4 years.  Lots of winning tradition.  15 years ago he said they used to carry 40 varsity players with almost the same on freshman and JV.   Now he struggles to get 25 varsity players and the same with freshman and JV.  Even though enrollment is up.  So he has less depth and more of the better players going both ways.

Told me that he thinks in 10 years they may have trouble fielding a team and the decline is sharp.   If I had a young son I would not want him playing football.
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So I have young sons..  i don't want them to play football either... but I wonder what to do about the hypocrisy...  I want to continue watching football for the time being.. I still play fantasy football..   the only thing i watch as much as football is tennis and mlb.

How do you balance the "i like this sport I think it's awesome.. i played it.. but you shouldn't"

 
Dentist said:
So I have young sons..  i don't want them to play football either... but I wonder what to do about the hypocrisy...  I want to continue watching football for the time being.. I still play fantasy football..   the only thing i watch as much as football is tennis and mlb.

How do you balance the "i like this sport I think it's awesome.. i played it.. but you shouldn't"
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I like watching boxing and MMA..but I certainly would not want any of my kids in the sports.

 
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Insein said:
Even if Favre isn't successful, many parents just aren't letting their kids play anyway. I know I'm  not. Not worth the risk nowadays. Yea we all played when we were Young but honestly I stopped playing after 2 years of peewee football (age 8-10). Played again as a freshman. Stopped because I saw stars after a nasty hit in practice. Then played again Junior and senior year. 

Don't need to fear every impact as my son goes through it. He's not going to the NFL. Just not worth it.
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This, to me, is a better answer.  I understand and recognize that the gov't must step in to protect those who are not of an age to make their own decisions / understand the ramifications thereof, but it concerns me when the Federal govt, especially, looks to make such dictates when families can make these decisions as they see fit.

Now, there's a lot of grey matter... err, area... here, so I understand the point here and it's hardly a mountain I'm willing to die on, but just legislating away behaviors and choice has farther reaching ramifications.  Don't like the gov't telling me what's good for me and my family (recognizing again that with Children, there's a fine line whereby gov't should step in - i.e. corporal punishment is ok, child abuse is not.  where is that line? For me, I'd never hit a child. It's cruel, counterproductive and can do lasting harm to both the child and those they encounter in life as they mature.  Others feel differently.  Is it up to me to deny someone else the ability to slap a wrist or spank? Is it up to the government? Same can be said with this issue, in a not quite parallel analog)

 
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