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Fasting to lose weight - Dr Jason Fung (1 Viewer)

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Footballguy
Recently read The Obesity Code by Jason Fung.  Brilliant book.  I first read Gary Taubes years ago and instantly became a "believer", though I had a few questions.  Fung answered MOST of my doubts and has left me convinced that Insulin levels drive weight.

I know there has been talk about this subject in the keto thread, but I'm wondering if Fung's ideas work well in a keto or a non-keto world.  While Keto is great, I think the strict adherence to keto is one of the things that causes many people (myself included) to consistently fail.  Some of you have done great there, but I've really struggled to stay with it every time I've tried.  

Back to the point, Fung drives the point home that insulin drives weight gain and that one of the problems with our obesity epidemic is that we eat way too much sugar (which drives insulin levels up) and we eat way too often (which means our insulin levels remain high throughout the day).

But he also brought up some concerning issues regarding protein and insulin levels, which I guess many have known for awhile, but which I feel many who practice keto and atkins don't realize.  The days I spent eating steak and chicken all day may have been all for naught.

The real question is how to put this into practice.  

My goal:

I'm going to try a 20-4 plan.  Many days I'm going to try for a 23-1 plan.  But the real question is what I can eat during that limited time. Obviously a keto-style of eating is something Fung advocates, and refined carbs seem like a total no-no.  But what about rice, potatoes, quinoa, a cup of full-fat ice cream?  Will those cause harm?  Slow down weight loss?

I'm really at the beginning of my fasting journey but I think this is a real key to the issue that we are facing.  We simply eat too often. 

Thoughts?  Comments?

 
shader said:
Recently read The Obesity Code by Jason Fung.  Brilliant book.  I first read Gary Taubes years ago and instantly became a "believer", though I had a few questions.  Fung answered MOST of my doubts and has left me convinced that Insulin levels drive weight.

I know there has been talk about this subject in the keto thread, but I'm wondering if Fung's ideas work well in a keto or a non-keto world.  While Keto is great, I think the strict adherence to keto is one of the things that causes many people (myself included) to consistently fail.  Some of you have done great there, but I've really struggled to stay with it every time I've tried.  

Back to the point, Fung drives the point home that insulin drives weight gain and that one of the problems with our obesity epidemic is that we eat way too much sugar (which drives insulin levels up) and we eat way too often (which means our insulin levels remain high throughout the day).

But he also brought up some concerning issues regarding protein and insulin levels, which I guess many have known for awhile, but which I feel many who practice keto and atkins don't realize.  The days I spent eating steak and chicken all day may have been all for naught.

The real question is how to put this into practice.  

My goal:

I'm going to try a 20-4 plan.  Many days I'm going to try for a 23-1 plan.  But the real question is what I can eat during that limited time. Obviously a keto-style of eating is something Fung advocates, and refined carbs seem like a total no-no.  But what about rice, potatoes, quinoa, a cup of full-fat ice cream?  Will those cause harm?  Slow down weight loss?

I'm really at the beginning of my fasting journey but I think this is a real key to the issue that we are facing.  We simply eat too often. 

Thoughts?  Comments?
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I had a doctor recommend lighter fasting to me than you're proposing. 23-1 seems extreme. I'm not sure what to make of it, other than it makes evolutionary sense. 

eta* Weren't we just told to eat small meals about five times a day in the nineties? I'd be careful of anything too faddish. I had a dietician tell me to ate like my grandparents did. That's when I lost weight and gained muscle.  

 
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@shader - how did you end up doing with this?  I've been watching his series on Aetiology of Obesity on Youtube (and probably driving folks crazy around here with my posts).  Almost everything he says makes sense to me - not saying it will be easy.  I've fasted a couple times now and plan to start incorporating this in to my regular routine. 

 
AAABatteries said:
@shader - how did you end up doing with this?  I've been watching his series on Aetiology of Obesity on Youtube (and probably driving folks crazy around here with my posts).  Almost everything he says makes sense to me - not saying it will be easy.  I've fasted a couple times now and plan to start incorporating this in to my regular routine. 
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I didn’t follow this for awhile . But 6 weeks ago, I incorporated it with keto and month 1 went great.  But keto is just so difficult for me longterm.  My plan is to incorporare it with more of a primal lifestyle (no processed foods, sweets) that allows me to have some healthy carbs (rice/beans/potatoes) in limited quantities to help.  

Anywya fasting is something I’m trying to do more of even if I’m cheating or eating poorly.  When I eat three meals a day i usually feel terrible and bloated.

 
shader said:
I didn’t follow this for awhile . But 6 weeks ago, I incorporated it with keto and month 1 went great.  But keto is just so difficult for me longterm.  My plan is to incorporare it with more of a primal lifestyle (no processed foods, sweets) that allows me to have some healthy carbs (rice/beans/potatoes) in limited quantities to help.  

Anywya fasting is something I’m trying to do more of even if I’m cheating or eating poorly.  When I eat three meals a day i usually feel terrible and bloated.
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Sooooo....this didn't work?

 
shader said:
I didn’t follow this for awhile . But 6 weeks ago, I incorporated it with keto and month 1 went great.  But keto is just so difficult for me longterm.  My plan is to incorporare it with more of a primal lifestyle (no processed foods, sweets) that allows me to have some healthy carbs (rice/beans/potatoes) in limited quantities to help.  

Anywya fasting is something I’m trying to do more of even if I’m cheating or eating poorly.  When I eat three meals a day i usually feel terrible and bloated.
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I have done a 4 day fast and it worked to get me into ketosis, but it took several days.  I am now on a Low Carb (lazy keto diet).  How long do you fast?

 
I’ve been doing a 16-8 low carb plan since Thanksgiving and it is working really well. Down over 10 lbs after my first weight check. The hard stop of eating, I eat Noon -8 p, really helps push off those useless calories I was used to snacking on at night. 

 
Currently doing 40 hour fast that started last night at 9pm.  Right now my fasts maybe aren't true fasts as I still have coffee with sugar free creamer.

 
hispeedthinmint said:
What happened to we need to eat in the morning to get our metabolism started?
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I don't have any good links to share but I think Fung has said there's really no evidence that this really works the way we were led to believe.  My guess is if it does help metabolism some, it's not that much and definitely not enough to offset the calories you would be eating, no matter what you basal metabolic rate is.

 
It's almost like everyone pushing their own great diet plan has all the studies that prove their method is THE WAY to lose weight and can show you why that other way is incorrect (hint: it often involves selling books and/or special food). 

Don't worry though guys, I'm not talking about your diet, I know it's the right one. I'm talking about that other one. 

 
Northern Voice said:
It's almost like everyone pushing their own great diet plan has all the studies that prove their method is THE WAY to lose weight and can show you why that other way is incorrect (hint: it often involves selling books and/or special food). 

Don't worry though guys, I'm not talking about your diet, I know it's the right one. I'm talking about that other one. 
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I can appreciate this thinking as I've had that thought in the past myself but typically one of a few things is going on in those instances:

  • It was bad science to begin with
  • The science was cherry picked to fit the narrative
  • The study wasn't exhaustive enough
More and more the theories are lining up and the science it mostly undeniable for certain aspects of nutrition (sugar is bad, for example)

Fung, for the most part, isn't selling a diet but providing science to back up his claims.  But, to be transparent, he does talk in one of the videos about a group he's involved with that help with his theories and does appear to cost some money but it seems pretty obvious to me that's not his motivation because I've only heard that in one video and this group was more like a support group.

 
AAABatteries said:
I can appreciate this thinking as I've had that thought in the past myself but typically one of a few things is going on in those instances:

  • It was bad science to begin with
  • The science was cherry picked to fit the narrative
  • The study wasn't exhaustive enough
More and more the theories are lining up and the science it mostly undeniable for certain aspects of nutrition (sugar is bad, for example)

Fung, for the most part, isn't selling a diet but providing science to back up his claims.  But, to be transparent, he does talk in one of the videos about a group he's involved with that help with his theories and does appear to cost some money but it seems pretty obvious to me that's not his motivation because I've only heard that in one video and this group was more like a support group.
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Sure maybe everyone can agree that sugar is bad but they still can't even agree on why. You'll find just as many who think Taubes (as an example) is a genius who has found the secret to all weight loss in carbohydrate/insulin theory as you will who think he's playing off an unproven hypothesis/junk-science and a whole lot of anecdotal evidence to make lots of money. And everyone can prove why they are right and the other side is wrong.

Anyway, I don't really want to debate this because my point is kind of that they all work. And also none of them work. And I can show you the studies to prove it.

 
Northern Voice said:
Sure maybe everyone can agree that sugar is bad but they still can't even agree on why. You'll find just as many who think Taubes (as an example) is a genius who has found the secret to all weight loss in carbohydrate/insulin theory as you will who think he's playing off an unproven hypothesis/junk-science and a whole lot of anecdotal evidence to make lots of money. And everyone can prove why they are right and the other side is wrong.

Anyway, I don't really want to debate this because my point is kind of that they all work. And also none of them work. And I can show you the studies to prove it.
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Rule 1 of dieting is all diets work.

Rule 2 is all dieters fail.  (80% within a year and the remainder of them fail at 2 years)

It's not hard to find a diet that cuts people down, what is hard is keeping it there.  

Another fallacy is what causes fat gain, is not always just reversible with fat loss.  Getting fat does long term, perhaps unerasable damage.  

 
Northern Voice said:
Sure maybe everyone can agree that sugar is bad but they still can't even agree on why. You'll find just as many who think Taubes (as an example) is a genius who has found the secret to all weight loss in carbohydrate/insulin theory as you will who think he's playing off an unproven hypothesis/junk-science and a whole lot of anecdotal evidence to make lots of money. And everyone can prove why they are right and the other side is wrong.

Anyway, I don't really want to debate this because my point is kind of that they all work. And also none of them work. And I can show you the studies to prove it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but that almost seems like saying we can't be sure smoking is bad for you because George Burns lived to be 100.  And I don't think it's true saying they can't agree on why sugar is bad - sugar intake -> high insulin levels -> high blood glucose -> bad things for most people that didn't hit the genetic lottery

Also, while I would concede that all diets don't work for everyone I do think there are ways of eating that is most optimal for a majority of people given our current evolution.  And some of those ways may differ somewhat drastically (in the way Vegan and Keto differ).  Don't eat processed foods and sugar being the two biggest items that I think most (not all) of the people doing sound science would agree upon.

 
culdeus said:
Rule 1 of dieting is all diets work.

Rule 2 is all dieters fail.  (80% within a year and the remainder of them fail at 2 years)

It's not hard to find a diet that cuts people down, what is hard is keeping it there.  

Another fallacy is what causes fat gain, is not always just reversible with fat loss.  Getting fat does long term, perhaps unerasable damage.  
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Agree but I think what Fung and others are saying is - we think we know how most of us got fat so lets educate people to not get fat to begin with.  If you aren't fat then you can't fail at a diet (theoretically).  It's extremely difficult for people to stop smoking and most smokers I know that quit say that it's a struggle that for many never goes away.  This seems similar - and for those that never smoke they don't have that difficulty.  So, we should do everything we can to encourage education so people don't have to get to that point.

The unerasable damage comment is one thing that concerns me as someone who has been overweight for a decent amount of time during adulthood.  For me, this is where I get to the idea of being ON A DIET vs. CHANGING MY DIET.  Until the last two years or so I was always ON A DIET when I wanted to lose weight.  Now I'm CHANGING MY DIET.  I'm willing to concede this may not matter in the long-run for me or others.  I do feel much more educated on why I was most likely overweight, how I've lost and gained previously and what is going on at the biological level.  There's still the execution of all this and that is where it just becomes too much for many people. 

 
I just started reading The Diabetes Code. Probably a lot of the same info as in The Obesity Code, but, of course, a focus on diabetes.

FWIW
About a year ago I was diagnosed Type 2 and started on Metformin.
Around June I was thinking more about keto & fasting (after reading Dr Mercola's book). At that time I got a prescription for a glucose monitor and started taking readings in the mornings. Doc said I would want readings between 70-140. Mine were 150-200. This was after reducing my consumption of processed grains and taking Metformin for close to 6 months.
End of June I started doing 8/16 fasting on most weekdays and recommitted to avoiding processed grains. I put the monitor away and said I'd give the fasting a chance to work Based on Dr Fung's book, I probably didn't have to wait, but I hadn't read it at the time and was probably employing a little ostrich tactic to avoid bad news anyway.
Around Labor Day I started with the glucose readings on a weekly basis (Tuesdays). Since then, my glucose is typically <120, though last week was 98.
Since the end of June, I'm down 40+ lbs and feel more energetic.

I'm a believer in the fasting. Even though I miss pizza, pasta and RITZ CRACKERS, I believe in avoiding the processed grains.

 
I read about fasting about 3 years ago and started to do some research on it. I started out with a 6 hour window and seemed to enjoy it. I was 235 at my biggest. At the start, I made tons of mistakes (eating whatever I wanted). Eventually, I continued to shrink my window of eating. It’s going on about 2 years of only eating 1 meal a day. I was down to 155 at my lowest, before running my first marathon. Currently, I fluctuate between 160-170 depending on my running.

Although I can’t contribute fasting to my entire weight loss journey, it has certainly helped. On top of fasting, I went Vegan a year ago, and eating completely organic plays a bigger role in my nutrition now. As everyone says, do what works for you, but do not diet. You truly have to make a lifestyle change. Fasting provided that lifestyle change for me. I enjoy looking forward to my one meal per day, and life is much easier not worrying about food. Will this work for everyone? Absolutely not, but give it a try and see if it sustainable for you. 

 
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I don't post very much, more of a lurker!  But, after reading this and watching a couple of Youtube videos, I am on day one of my intermittent fast.  Last night, 3 hours into the fast and my stomach went on a 20 minute rumble fest!  I guess it knows things are changing.  181.4 today (5'4" so I need to get back into the 150's)

How much thought are you putting into the breaking of the fast?  Is that a really big deal, or can I just just eat a chicken salad and a diet coke at lunch?  If I just fast for 16 hours and then eat like normal (bowl of ice cream occasionally,  a couple of oreo cookies when I come home and a glass of milk) will just the fast alone help me lose weight?

 
kliph said:
I don't post very much, more of a lurker!  But, after reading this and watching a couple of Youtube videos, I am on day one of my intermittent fast.  Last night, 3 hours into the fast and my stomach went on a 20 minute rumble fest!  I guess it knows things are changing.  181.4 today (5'4" so I need to get back into the 150's)

How much thought are you putting into the breaking of the fast?  Is that a really big deal, or can I just just eat a chicken salad and a diet coke at lunch?  If I just fast for 16 hours and then eat like normal (bowl of ice cream occasionally,  a couple of oreo cookies when I come home and a glass of milk) will just the fast alone help me lose weight?
Click to expand...
You may want to avoid any obvious sources of sugar as well as the diet coke.

 
kliph said:
I don't post very much, more of a lurker!  But, after reading this and watching a couple of Youtube videos, I am on day one of my intermittent fast.  Last night, 3 hours into the fast and my stomach went on a 20 minute rumble fest!  I guess it knows things are changing.  181.4 today (5'4" so I need to get back into the 150's)

How much thought are you putting into the breaking of the fast?  Is that a really big deal, or can I just just eat a chicken salad and a diet coke at lunch?  If I just fast for 16 hours and then eat like normal (bowl of ice cream occasionally,  a couple of oreo cookies when I come home and a glass of milk) will just the fast alone help me lose weight?
Click to expand...
According to Fung 12 hours is enough to see some benefits - seems low to me.  On days I do IF I shoot for 14-16, rarely do I do 20.  That’s just me and what I’ve found easier.  My longer fasts have been 36-40 hours (about to break one in a few hours).

As far as breaking the fast goes, I’ve heard many people say be careful and ease back in to it with something simple like soup/broth or a light salad.  I think that’s mainly for longer multi-day fasts.  I’ve pretty much eaten what I’ve wanted within my typical diet- anything less than 24 hours and it seems a little unnecessary, IMO.  

I would avoid the sugar - you need to allow your body to deal with the insulin and burn the fat - seems unlikely you can reach those goals  eating Oreos and ice cream but maybe.

 
kliph said:
Is one diet coke bad?  
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I don't know how bad one is. I suspect that if you're drinking one at lunch, you're drinking diet coke at other times as well. I'm not aware of any nutritional value in diet coke. Studies seem contradictory as far as the negative effects. Unless you're adding rum to it, I don't see any reason to drink it at all.

 
Northern Voice said:
It's almost like everyone pushing their own great diet plan has all the studies that prove their method is THE WAY to lose weight and can show you why that other way is incorrect (hint: it often involves selling books and/or special food). 

Don't worry though guys, I'm not talking about your diet, I know it's the right one. I'm talking about that other one. 
Click to expand...
Yeah this is true and also a convenient excuse not to follow any of them. 

Theres no magic to weight loss. Hell - even the term weight loss is bad. You should strive for a healthy body composition. This isn’t difficult to figure out but people want a quick solution to a problem that took 20 years to materialize. 

 
culdeus said:
There is risk in it. Mainly not well understood if it promotes insulin responses. Among all the other issues like dementia and simply tasting like ###.
Click to expand...
Any good studies on diet teas and/or flavored waters?  I like water but occasionally want something with more flavor.  

 
mr roboto said:
Yeah this is true and also a convenient excuse not to follow any of them. 

Theres no magic to weight loss. Hell - even the term weight loss is bad. You should strive for a healthy body composition. This isn’t difficult to figure out but people want a quick solution to a problem that took 20 years to materialize. 
Click to expand...
Don’t disagree - what is interesting to me is some of what Fung and others discuss is some of the science behind why they fail (beyond “willpower”) - maybe some of this was known by others but some or most of it is new to me.

 
AAABatteries said:
Don’t disagree - what is interesting to me is some of what Fung and others discuss is some of the science behind why they fail (beyond “willpower”) - maybe some of this was known by others but some or most of it is new to me.
Click to expand...
Understanding the reasons why we gain body fat in the foods that contribute to that is the key to long-term healthy body composition. Following a preset diet that is restrictive and doesn’t teach you the principles of long-term healthy eating is what causes most people to fail.

 
mr roboto said:
Following a preset diet that is restrictive and doesn’t teach you the principles of long-term healthy eating is what causes most people to fail.
Click to expand...
You are a trainer - do I remember that right?  What are your thoughts on the idea that exercise isn’t a great way to lose weight?  Seems counterintuitive but I think I’m stating what Fung thinks correctly. I think we had @Chaka who preached that a while back too.

 
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AAABatteries said:
You are a trainer - do I remember that right?  What are your thoughts on the idea that exercise isn’t a great way to lose weight?  Seems counterintuitive but I think I’m stating what Fung thinks correctly. I think we had @Chaka who preached that a while back too.
Click to expand...
I am a fitness studio owner and an investor in several fitness companies  technically not a certified personal trainer  

Exercise is about upgrading the body. It adds abilities (strength, speed, muscle mass, improvements in cardiovascular health, improvements in many biomarkets like blood pressure, glucose metabolism, A1C etc). 

Exercise to burn calories to lose weight is VASTLY overrated imo. 

Exercise to build lean muscle, which improves RMR and also regulates insulin levels will absolutely contribute to body fat loss. But the hours of cardio to burn off fat myth is pervasive and simply not true. 

Upgrade your fat-burning abilities through exercise. Eat a healthy diet. This combination is the best way to not only loose weight but keep it off long term. 

 
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AAABatteries said:
You are a trainer - do I remember that right?  What are your thoughts on the idea that exercise isn’t a great way to lose weight?  Seems counterintuitive but I think I’m stating what Fung thinks correctly. I think we had @Chaka who preached that a while back too.
Click to expand...
It's a very simple concept called Non Exercise Activity Thermogenesis or NEAT. If you want to drop pounds look it up, it works. No gimmicks, it encourages you to be active, very active even, just not the high intensity stuff.

For some reason nobody wants to accept it so they cycle through the same routines that failed them time and again "Gonna go to the gym everyday brah, blast my gluteopectorallatisimusceps and I'mma start eating less and watch the pounds fall off while gettin' shredded brah." 12 weeks later they end up in an@Otis thread wondering why they're still fat.

 
FTR about six months ago the wife and I hired a personal trainer who comes over and makes us beat the #### out of ourselves on the TRX 3-4 times per week for an hour each.

I'm rounding into great shape but, go figure I'm heavier than I have been in years and it ain't all muscle. 

Working out makes you hungry, trying to be in a caloric deficit while doing high-intensity exercise is doing a disservice to your body and your body won't let that #### stand. Will power is a finite resource and in the end your body's gonna get what it wants.

 
Chaka said:
It's a very simple concept called Non Exercise Activity Thermogenesis or NEAT. If you want to drop pounds look it up, it works. No gimmicks, it encourages you to be active, very active even, just not the high intensity stuff.

For some reason nobody wants to accept it so they cycle through the same routines that failed them time and again "Gonna go to the gym everyday brah, blast my gluteopectorallatisimusceps and I'mma start eating less and watch the pounds fall off while gettin' shredded brah." 12 weeks later they end up in an@Otis thread wondering why they're still fat.
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If you have something helpful to offer, post it up brah. Lots of us fat dudes in here may appreciate it. 

 
Otis said:
If you have something helpful to offer, post it up brah. Lots of us fat dudes in here may appreciate it. 
Click to expand...
This giving tree is down to its stump but please feel free to grab a seat.

I have posted about NEAT multiple times in your threads and repeatedly get laughed out of the room. If you want to drop pounds effectively look into NEAT and practice it. Don't bro down brah, just practice NEAT. It will work for you. After it works you will have to find your own razor thin balance between bro down brahing and keeping the weight down. I am in that stage right now and it isn't easy 

 
Chaka said:
This giving tree is down to its stump but please feel free to grab a seat.

I have posted about NEAT multiple times in your threads and repeatedly get laughed out of the room. If you want to drop pounds effectively look into NEAT and practice it. Don't bro down brah, just practice NEAT. It will work for you. After it works you will have to find your own razor thin balance between bro down brahing and keeping the weight down. I am in that stage right now and it isn't easy 
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I remembered your posts and that’s why I tagged you - I don’t remember folks laughing at you, in fact, I remember following your advice during the weight loss competition and I think it helped tremendously.  I do think the idea still seems just a little counterintuitive until somebody understands some of the science. Also, it definitely is not the advice that is still given be most people and a lot of healthcare professionals.  

 
AAABatteries said:
I remembered your posts and that’s why I tagged you - I don’t remember folks laughing at you, in fact, I remember following your advice during the weight loss competition and I think it helped tremendously.  I do think the idea still seems just a little counterintuitive until somebody understands some of the science. Also, it definitely is not the advice that is still given be most people and a lot of healthcare professionals.  
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What is counterintuitive about it? NEAT promotes being active and creating a caloric deficit. It just promotes it through low/moderate intensity stuff like steps, leisurely rides, garedning etc. instead of kipping, burpees and kegels.

The sheer volume of information out there suggests that we can expect changing consensus recommendations from healthcare professionals to be a slow moving boat.

 
Chaka said:
What is counterintuitive about it? NEAT promotes being active and creating a caloric deficit. It just promotes it through low/moderate intensity stuff like steps, leisurely rides, garedning etc. instead of kipping, burpees and kegels.

The sheer volume of information out there suggests that we can expect changing consensus recommendations from healthcare professionals to be a slow moving boat.
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Just the idea of intense exercise not really working well (long term)- especially the more you have to lose.  It seems that Diet to lose and Diet/Exercise to maintain is a better roadmap for most.

 
AAABatteries said:
Just the idea of intense exercise not really working well (long term)- especially the more you have to lose.  It seems that Diet to lose and Diet/Exercise to maintain is a better roadmap for most.
Click to expand...
It's a great road map if you want to go in circles.

 
Chaka said:
It's a great road map if you want to go in circles.
Click to expand...
This is far too simplistic. People have been very successful adding a sustainable fitness program to their nutritional improvements. I think you’re painting with too broad of a brush. 

 
mr roboto said:
People have been very successful adding a sustainable fitness program to their nutritional improvements. 
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I agree but we're talking specifically about losing weight. Throwing down HIIT type work while reducing caloric intake in the hope of losing weight, which is what most people do (hit it hard, succeed for a short time then fail, rinse and repeat) is not the sustainable fitness program/nutritional improvements you're talking about.

 
Chaka said:
I agree but we're talking specifically about losing weight. Throwing down HIIT type work while reducing caloric intake in the hope of losing weight, which is what most people do (hit it hard, succeed for a short time then fail, rinse and repeat) is not the sustainable fitness program/nutritional improvements you're talking about.
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I agree. That’s the problem though - not all exercise is the same. This ‘all-or-nothing/no pain no gain/sweat/burn it off’ mentality is both counterproductive and also false. Yet - that’s what most people think Exercise needs to be. 

On the other hand - I wouldn’t just tell someone to be more active in their daily life. I always encourage some level of intentional, moderate intensity work that will improve the RMR. 

 
Chaka said:
I agree but we're talking specifically about losing weight. Throwing down HIIT type work while reducing caloric intake in the hope of losing weight, which is what most people do (hit it hard, succeed for a short time then fail, rinse and repeat) is not the sustainable fitness program/nutritional improvements you're talking about.
Click to expand...
That’s why I said to “maintain”

 
mr roboto said:
I always encourage some level of intentional, moderate intensity work that will improve the RMR. 
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And that’s the crux of it, no?  There seems to be a line you can cross where the amount and intensity of the exercise can start being counterproductive.  

 
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