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1 hour ago, Bayhawks said:

But, based on many of your posts, illegal immigration is a huge problem.  If ICE isn’t fixing the problem, why do we need them?

it IS a massive problem that Democrats  and sanctuary cities are accomplices to - they're doing best they can considering how many liberals are fighting to keep them from doing their jobs

https://www.ice.gov/topics/fy2017

 

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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

it IS a massive problem that Democrats  and sanctuary cities are accomplices to - they're doing best they can considering how many liberals are fighting to keep them from doing their jobs

https://www.ice.gov/topics/fy2017

 

Well, that didn’t even come close to answering the question.

If they are not doing their job (regardless of whether it’s the liberals/Dems/sanctuary cities/Illuminati/boogeyman/tooth fairy that’s causing that), why are they needed?

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4 hours ago, Bayhawks said:

But, based on many of your posts, illegal immigration is a huge problem.  If ICE isn’t fixing the problem, why do we need them?

 

1 hour ago, Bayhawks said:

Well, that didn’t even come close to answering the question.

If they are not doing their job (regardless of whether it’s the liberals/Dems/sanctuary cities/Illuminati/boogeyman/tooth fairy that’s causing that), why are they needed?

That's like asking "why are the police needed, there is still crime"

:rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Bayhawks said:

If they are not doing their job (regardless of whether it’s the liberals/Dems/sanctuary cities/Illuminati/boogeyman/tooth fairy that’s causing that), why are they needed

if you looked at the link and read, then you see all the jobs they're doing and for the better of the United States country and its citizens

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4 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

it IS a massive problem that Democrats  and sanctuary cities are accomplices to - they're doing best they can considering how many liberals are fighting to keep them from doing their jobs

https://www.ice.gov/topics/fy2017

 

Around what year do you think it became a problem?

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11 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

Around what year do you think it became a problem?

decades .....  Bill Clinton said the same things Trump has said and Democrats applauded him and loved him for it

https://youtu.be/Hy8UwpenlEA

 

 

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7 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

decades .....  Bill Clinton said the same things Trump has said and Democrats applauded him and loved him for it

https://youtu.be/Hy8UwpenlEA

 

 

“Decades” isn’t a year.  And when did you become a Bill Clinton fan? And when did Trump say he wanted to go after people who employ illegal aliens?

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20 hours ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

 

That's like asking "why are the police needed, there is still crime"

:rolleyes:

If the police didn't exist at all until 15 years ago, and then during their relatively short existence they didn't stop crime and also they were consistently abusive and gleefully enforced perhaps the single cruelest domestic policy of our lifetimes, then yes it's just like that.

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7 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

If the police didn't exist at all until 15 years ago, and then during their relatively short existence they didn't stop crime and also they were consistently abusive and gleefully enforced perhaps the single cruelest domestic policy of our lifetimes, then yes it's just like that.

👌

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17 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

“Decades” isn’t a year.  And when did you become a Bill Clinton fan? And when did Trump say he wanted to go after people who employ illegal aliens?

same words, different Presidents and Govt leaders .... Democrats loved hard immigration talk when it was their guys up there and the votes they wanted to snag was around

magically it all changes when someone else says the same words

https://gop.com/flashback-democrats-talked-tough-on-immigration-rsr/

Hell Clinton and I shook hands in 1986, he's an Arkansas boy .... I voted for him, but no, never a fan of who Clinton was as an abuser of women.

 

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49 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

same words, different Presidents and Govt leaders .... Democrats loved hard immigration talk when it was their guys up there and the votes they wanted to snag was around

magically it all changes when someone else says the same words

https://gop.com/flashback-democrats-talked-tough-on-immigration-rsr/

Hell Clinton and I shook hands in 1986, he's an Arkansas boy .... I voted for him, but no, never a fan of who Clinton was as an abuser of women.

 

It doesn't magically all change, those aren't the same words, and it's been over 20 years since Clinton made that speech.  People who are now between the ages of 18-40 (some 41) were not voters at the time that speech was given in 1995. 

Edited by Henry Ford
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1 hour ago, Henry Ford said:

It doesn't magically all change, those aren't the same words, and it's been over 20 years since Clinton made that speech.  People who are now between the ages of 18-40 (some 41) were not voters at the time that speech was given in 1995. 

 

only 3 short years before Trump was elected ....

 

 

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: “Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my administration has already made -- putting more boots on the Southern border than at any time in our history and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years.

Real reform means establishing a responsible pathway to earned citizenship -- a path that includes passing a background check, paying taxes and a meaningful penalty, learning English, and going to the back of the line behind the folks trying to come here legally.

And real reform means fixing the legal immigration system to cut waiting periods and attract the highly-skilled entrepreneurs and engineers that will help create jobs and grow our economy.” (President Barack Obama, Remarks At State Of The Union, Washington, D.C., 2/12/13)

“‘I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in,’ Clinton said at November 2015 town hall in New Hampshire, ‘and I do think that you have to control your borders.’” (Annie Linksey, “In 2006, Democrats Were Saying ‘Build That Fence!’” Boston Globe , 1/27/17)

In 2013, All 54 Democrats Voted To Pass The Border Security, Economic Opportunity, And Immigration Modernization Act. (S. 744, Roll Call Vote #168 : Passed 68-32: R 14-32; D 52-0; I 1-0, 6/27/13)

The Bill Required The Completion “700 Miles Of Pedestrian Fencing Along The Border.” “ Completing 700 miles of pedestrian fencing along the border, which would require approximately 350 new miles of fencing.” (“Immigration Bill Summary,” The Associated Press , 6/28/13)

The Bill Allocated Approximately $46 Billion On Border Security Improvements. “Border security spending in the bill totals around $46 billion.” (“Immigration Bill Summary,” The Associated Press , 6/28/13)

The Bill Calls For “Doubling The Number Of Border Patrol Agents Stationed Along The U.S.-Mexico Border.” “ Roughly doubling the number of Border Patrol agents stationed along the U.S.-Mexico border, to at least 38,405.” (“Immigration Bill Summary,” The Associated Press , 6/28/13)

 

Edited by Stealthycat

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Article by Natasha Bertrant:

ICE has been detaining asylum-seekers on the basis of Russian Red Notices, which are notoriously politically motivated. “Backdoor extraditions” are the result. “DHS & DOJ have more and more put themselves in the position of doing Putin’s dirty work.”

In one case, DHS argued in court filings that an arrest warrant in Russia was supported by a Red Notice—even though obtaining a Red Notice is as simple as filling out a form, and has no probative value of its own.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/07/how-russia-persecutes-its-dissidents-using-us-courts/566309/

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On 7/20/2018 at 0:59 PM, Stealthycat said:

 

only 3 short years before Trump was elected ....

 

 

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: “Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my administration has already made -- putting more boots on the Southern border than at any time in our history and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years.

Real reform means establishing a responsible pathway to earned citizenship -- a path that includes passing a background check, paying taxes and a meaningful penalty, learning English, and going to the back of the line behind the folks trying to come here legally.

And real reform means fixing the legal immigration system to cut waiting periods and attract the highly-skilled entrepreneurs and engineers that will help create jobs and grow our economy.” (President Barack Obama, Remarks At State Of The Union, Washington, D.C., 2/12/13)

“‘I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in,’ Clinton said at November 2015 town hall in New Hampshire, ‘and I do think that you have to control your borders.’” (Annie Linksey, “In 2006, Democrats Were Saying ‘Build That Fence!’” Boston Globe , 1/27/17)

In 2013, All 54 Democrats Voted To Pass The Border Security, Economic Opportunity, And Immigration Modernization Act. (S. 744, Roll Call Vote #168 : Passed 68-32: R 14-32; D 52-0; I 1-0, 6/27/13)

The Bill Required The Completion “700 Miles Of Pedestrian Fencing Along The Border.” “ Completing 700 miles of pedestrian fencing along the border, which would require approximately 350 new miles of fencing.” (“Immigration Bill Summary,” The Associated Press , 6/28/13)

The Bill Allocated Approximately $46 Billion On Border Security Improvements. “Border security spending in the bill totals around $46 billion.” (“Immigration Bill Summary,” The Associated Press , 6/28/13)

The Bill Calls For “Doubling The Number Of Border Patrol Agents Stationed Along The U.S.-Mexico Border.” “ Roughly doubling the number of Border Patrol agents stationed along the U.S.-Mexico border, to at least 38,405.” (“Immigration Bill Summary,” The Associated Press , 6/28/13)

 

The 2013 bill also included a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. Some of the provisions you cut and pasted here were actually concessions to Republicans because the bill was a bipartisan effort, not a Democratic proposal. Ultimately conservative Republicans rejected it because of the path to citizenship.

Pulling this stuff out of that important context and pretending that Dems were all in favor of the same sort of things Trump currently wants while ignoring the obvious headline of the deal- the path to citizenship- is pretty gross, even for you. I know we're supposed to civil to other posters these days but respecting misleading garbage like your terrible post here isn't good for anyone. This is pathetic, misleading partisan nonsense of the worst kind and you deserve to be called out for it.

 

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:(

The ACLU is accusing ICE agents of mistreating workers detained in a Nebraska raid.

The ACLU claims ICE agents transported detained workers, including 2 pregnant women, w/o air conditioning. When passengers asked for cool air, agents turned on the heat.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/aclu-nebraska-ice-workers-illegal-abuse

 

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:(

ICE detained a man while he was driving his pregnant wife to the hospital. He was taken when they stopped for gas.

"My husband needs to be here," Maria del Carmen Venegas said. "He had to wait for his son for so long, and someone just took him away."

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/08/17/joel-arrona-detained-by-ice-san-bernardino-driving-wife-to-deliver-baby/

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1 hour ago, squistion said:

:(

ICE detained a man while he was driving his pregnant wife to the hospital. He was taken when they stopped for gas.

"My husband needs to be here," Maria del Carmen Venegas said. "He had to wait for his son for so long, and someone just took him away."

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/08/17/joel-arrona-detained-by-ice-san-bernardino-driving-wife-to-deliver-baby/

ICE didn’t just happen to be at a gas station, there is a lot more to this story.

She wasn’t in labor , she was going to a scheduled c section

In the USA illegally for 12 years? Five children, US citizens because they were born here? Perhaps free lunch at school & snacks? Medicaid-medical- dental-vision? Housing assistance? Utilities assistance? Daycare assistance? SNAP-food stamps? Free education? Better than your American Citizen family has it

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1 hour ago, HellToupee said:

ICE didn’t just happen to be at a gas station, there is a lot more to this story.

She wasn’t in labor , she was going to a scheduled c section

In the USA illegally for 12 years? Five children, US citizens because they were born here? Perhaps free lunch at school & snacks? Medicaid-medical- dental-vision? Housing assistance? Utilities assistance? Daycare assistance? SNAP-food stamps? Free education? Better than your American Citizen family has it

Oh, well, that makes a difference, a baby isn't delivered after a c section...oh, wait...

Quote

Better than your American Citizen family has it

:bs:

 

Edited by squistion

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1 hour ago, HellToupee said:

ICE didn’t just happen to be at a gas station, there is a lot more to this story.

She wasn’t in labor , she was going to a scheduled c section

In the USA illegally for 12 years? Five children, US citizens because they were born here? Perhaps free lunch at school & snacks? Medicaid-medical- dental-vision? Housing assistance? Utilities assistance? Daycare assistance? SNAP-food stamps? Free education? Better than your American Citizen family has it

In a few years, her 5 children will be helping to keep social security solvent. And paying taxes of all sort. And very possibly serving in the military or wearing a badge. Yes, they're US citizens.

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5 hours ago, squistion said:

:(

ICE detained a man while he was driving his pregnant wife to the hospital. He was taken when they stopped for gas.

"My husband needs to be here," Maria del Carmen Venegas said. "He had to wait for his son for so long, and someone just took him away."

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/08/17/joel-arrona-detained-by-ice-san-bernardino-driving-wife-to-deliver-baby/

Massachusetts Congressman Joe Kennedy pretty much sums up how I feel:

Rep. Joe Kennedy III‏ @RepJoeKennedy 4h4 hours ago

There’s heartless and then there’s whatever the hell this is.

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2 hours ago, Sheriff Bart said:

You are a horrible person. 

 

GM have you changed your mind yet about this guy?  @General Malaise

Coming from a guy like you this really cuts to the quick

:lol:

oh dear me

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8 hours ago, Sheriff Bart said:

You are a horrible person. 

 

GM have you changed your mind yet about this guy?  @General Malaise

He's not wrong though. Don't let your emotions get in the way of reality.

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9 hours ago, HellToupee said:

ICE didn’t just happen to be at a gas station, there is a lot more to this story.

She wasn’t in labor , she was going to a scheduled c section

In the USA illegally for 12 years? Five children, US citizens because they were born here? Perhaps free lunch at school & snacks? Medicaid-medical- dental-vision? Housing assistance? Utilities assistance? Daycare assistance? SNAP-food stamps? Free education? Better than your American Citizen family has it

How many millions of American families, where the parents are US citizens,  get these things?  

And since those kids were born in the US they are just as entitled to those benefits as a kid whose great-greats came here on the Mayflower.

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5 hours ago, HellToupee said:

Coming from a guy like you this really cuts to the quick

:lol:

oh dear me

It should. There are dozens of people around here, including me,  that will tell you that Sheriff Bart if a hell of a great guy.

 If you want to attack a poster’s character you’re looking in the wrong place.

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12 hours ago, HellToupee said:

ICE didn’t just happen to be at a gas station, there is a lot more to this story.

She wasn’t in labor , she was going to a scheduled c section

In the USA illegally for 12 years? Five children, US citizens because they were born here? Perhaps free lunch at school & snacks? Medicaid-medical- dental-vision? Housing assistance? Utilities assistance? Daycare assistance? SNAP-food stamps? Free education? Better than your American Citizen family has it

Got a link for all this?

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I did not see it mentioned in Squiz' recap of the article, but:

Quote

Maria told CBS2 Arrona-Lara, who is from Mexico, has never been stopped by police, and that he’s never been in trouble with the law, not even for a ticket. However, ICE said Saturday Arrona-Lara was picked up because he is wanted by law enforcement authorities in Mexico on an outstanding homicide warrant.

Maybe the guy is innocent and someone with his same name is wanted for murder in Mexico. 

Maybe the guy is guilty. 

Maybe ICE is making stuff up so they can lock up more brown people. 

 

Tough situation for an ICE agent though if the name/ID did show up with a homicide warrant. Let a possible murderer walk free and someone else potentially ends up being harmed in the future, or detain a possibly innocent man until it can get sorted out. The "pregnant woman on the way to the hospital" angle sure was played up by the media for clicks and sympathy. It is not like her water broke and she was about to squirt a kid out in the Arco parking lot, she was headed to the hospital for a scheduled C section.

I doubt ICE fabricated the story, they could lose their job and face legal consequences. 

 

I know several dozen ICE agents and they are well respected members of their communities. It is a disgrace what the media and the left have done with their attacks on ICE over the last 6 months in an attempt to score political points and divide this country. In the local communities more and more of these people (who are largely Hispanic themselves) are getting sick of the attacks. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. 

Singling out ICE as the boogeyman was a very strange fight to pick. If people have a problem with current laws being enforced they should attack the people who made and can change those laws. 

 

Edited by NFL2DF

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4 minutes ago, Radio Free Homer said:

Any chance you could be a bigger baby?

I normally would not care, but FBG Moderator has suspended me for 30 days and 7 days for similar posts. 

 

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But wait, there's more...

Daniel Dale‏Verified account @ddale8 12h12 hours ago

Important update:

ICE said today that this man was arrested because of a homicide warrant for him in Mexico. ICE didn’t mention this in its comments to media yesterday. His lawyer says he denies that there are such Mexico charges; no details from ICE yet.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/08/18/ice-arrested-man-driving-his-pregnant-wife-give-birth-she-drove-herself-hospital/?utm_term=.d9d76dd3366f

 

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10 hours ago, NFL2DF said:

I normally would not care, but FBG Moderator has suspended me for 30 days and 7 days for similar posts. 

 

Yes, he got short suspension for horrible person. Don't do that. You got suspended 30 days for "There are also rumors that Dedfin is a pedophile."

Whine less. Make better posts. Period. 

 

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10 hours ago, NFL2DF said:

 

 

I know several dozen ICE agents and they are well respected members of their communities. 

 

I agree with this part of your post. I don’t think it’s fair to blame these guys for policies that are set down high above them. 

As I see it, the main problem we’re facing is this: our current President, supported by a large majority of conservatives, want a hard line taken against undocumented immigrants. The rest of us don’t. 

I’ve spent a lot of time over the years in threads like this one arguing this issue with people that share your general viewpoint. I’ve tried to reason things out, explore compromises, discuss various options. It doesn’t work. We simply are too far apart in our fundamental beliefs. 

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35 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I agree with this part of your post. I don’t think it’s fair to blame these guys for policies that are set down high above them. 

As I see it, the main problem we’re facing is this: our current President, supported by a large majority of conservatives, want a hard line taken against undocumented immigrants. The rest of us don’t. 

I’ve spent a lot of time over the years in threads like this one arguing this issue with people that share your general viewpoint. I’ve tried to reason things out, explore compromises, discuss various options. It doesn’t work. We simply are too far apart in our fundamental beliefs. 

The hard line isn’t with illegal aliens , it’s with the bad hombres. Most illegal aliens are good people, well I assume they are. It’s thebad hombres we need to weed out , the ones who commit crimes and end up in the court system but then shielded from ICE by renegade judges. This happens al lot in MA

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2 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

The hard line isn’t with illegal aliens , it’s with the bad hombres. Most illegal aliens are good people, well I assume they are. It’s thebad hombres we need to weed out , the ones who commit crimes and end up in the court system but then shielded from ICE by renegade judges. This happens al lot in MA

Putting aside your phrasing (which you are aware that I and many others find offensive), you’re wrong. Only a very small percent of undocumented aliens commit violent crimes. Yet the Trump administration, with the support of most conservatives, have consistently attempted to link these crimes to ALL undocumented aliens and come up with policy based on that false representation. 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Putting aside your phrasing (which you are aware that I and many others find offensive), you’re wrong. Only a very small percent of undocumented aliens commit violent crimes. Yet the Trump administration, with the support of most conservatives, have consistently attempted to link these crimes to ALL undocumented aliens and come up with policy based on that false representation. 

I’m wrong that assuming most are good people?

The emphasis is getting rid of bad hombres and attempt to keep out future illegal aliens

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1 hour ago, HellToupee said:

I’m wrong that assuming most are good people?

The emphasis is getting rid of bad hombres and attempt to keep out future illegal aliens

No it isn’t. But as I wrote, I doubt we’ll ever come to any consensus on this. 

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3 hours ago, HellToupee said:

I’m wrong that assuming most are good people?

The emphasis is getting rid of bad hombres and attempt to keep out future illegal aliens

Well according to Donny, only some of them are good people.  Most are drug dealers and rapists.

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On 8/19/2018 at 11:35 AM, FBG Moderator said:

Yes, he got short suspension for horrible person. Don't do that. You got suspended 30 days for "There are also rumors that Dedfin is a pedophile."

Whine less. Make better posts. Period. 

 

:reported:

 

Calling someone a whiner is a bannable offense 

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Jennifer Jacobs‏Verified account @JenniferJJacobs

FollowFollow @JenniferJJacobs

More

“You’re not nervous are you?” Trump says, calling a Hispanic-looking immigration official to the podium. “Speaks perfect English,” Trump says of the agent, who arrested someone for trying to illegally smuggle 78 immigrants into the US.

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On 8/19/2018 at 10:07 AM, squistion said:

Important update:

ICE said today that this man was arrested because of a homicide warrant for him in Mexico. ICE didn’t mention this in its comments to media yesterday. His lawyer says he denies that there are such Mexico charges; no details from ICE yet.

Arresting a suspected murderer - ICE definitely needs to be shut down.   Definitely the last, last straw.

 

On 8/18/2018 at 4:25 PM, squistion said:

Massachusetts Congressman Joe Kennedy pretty much sums up how I feel:

Rep. Joe Kennedy III‏ @RepJoeKennedy 4h4 hours ago

There’s heartless and then there’s whatever the hell this is.

I wonder how many folks jumped at this without seeing any of the facts surrounding it.  Besides CNN and politicians (Kennedy being an appropriate representative of this group).  

Edited by Sand

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5 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

Mexican state confirms 

Can't believe we didn't give this guy a better path to citizenship.  

When a story fits their agenda, mainstream media is quick to publish the false narrative with zero attempt to question it.  This is why Trump's fake news charge works.  Of course Trump uses it to cover up his lies, but the media is still hopelessly bias on how stories are reported.   The reporting on this story was horrible as it is with so many of these.  

Edited by jon_mx
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7 hours ago, jon_mx said:

When a story fits their agenda, mainstream media is quick to publish the false narrative with zero attempt to question it.  This is why Trump's fake news charge works.  Of course Trump uses it to cover up his lies, but the media is still hopelessly bias on how stories are reported.   The reporting on this story was horrible as it is with so many of these.  

I wonder how much airtime the story today about ICE arresting and deporting a Nazi death camp guard will get.  

Squiz,  This is definitely the last, last, last straw, don't you agree?  The gall of these people.  Disband them now!

Edited by Sand

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Holding out examples of ICE arresting and deporting criminals or other success stories is a silly straw man. Nobody is arguing that they don't do this. The argument is that, on balance, they are abusive and unjust and do more harm than good. I'm sure the SS and the Khmer Rouge and Hussein's Republican Guard got rid of some terrible people too. Getting rid of some terrible people doesn't singlehandedly justify a group's existence/tactics.

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2 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

Holding out examples of ICE arresting and deporting criminals or other success stories is a silly straw man. Nobody is arguing that they don't do this. The argument is that, on balance, they are abusive and unjust and do more harm than good. I'm sure the SS and the Khmer Rouge and Hussein's Republican Guard got rid of some terrible people too. Getting rid of some terrible people doesn't singlehandedly justify a group's existence/tactics.

By comparing ICE to the SS, Khmer Rouge, and the Republican Guard you are, IMO, only helping the current conservative position. These are ludicrous, rather offfensive comparisons. 

ICE is not the problem. Like all of our law enforcement it is made up of well meaning people who try to do their best under difficult circumstances- almost all of the bad anecdotes we hear are the result not of ICE but of the policies they’re supposed to enforce, which I believe are not only unjust but impossible to carry out. 

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On 8/18/2018 at 2:25 PM, squistion said:

Massachusetts Congressman Joe Kennedy pretty much sums up how I feel:

Rep. Joe Kennedy III‏ @RepJoeKennedy 4h4 hours ago

There’s heartless and then there’s whatever the hell this is.

Abolish ICE!  Illegal aliens with international arrest warrants for murder deserve to be left in peace.  Damn Nazi ICE agents.  

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