What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Anyone been an Expat? (1 Viewer)

moleculo

Footballguy
So I may have an opportunity to move to Germany for work within the next couple of years.  VP of engineering raised the idea with me last week - no guarantees at this point, more of a talking about it situation.

Company is between Stuttgart and Munich.  Professionally, it would be a great opportunity for me - Germany is where all of our R & D will eventually be (I am a product development engineer).  My role would basically be representing the US market needs to their engineering team, and me living there would really help bridge that gap and forge those relationships.  When I come back, I would continue that role.

Personal concerns: I am married, kids ages 21, 9, 11.  Wife and young kids are all in.  Oldest kid - he's kind of a "failure to launch" scenario.  Not sure what he does if he's not sleeping in my basement. 

My wife is a real estate agent.  Thinking maybe she could fly back a week a month to keep her business flowing.  We would be looking at ~$10k/ year in airline expenses for her to do that - probably worth it in that she could make that much with a couple transactions.

The kids would probably have to go to a private school because they don't speak any German.  That's another $25k/year.

My house - I could certainly rent it out for less than my mortgage.  I could probably even make an extra $500/month or more, so that isn't much of a concern.

Anyone out there done something similar?  What do I need to be concerned about?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sounds like a great opportunity, but pricey.  It will probably be the right thing to do for your career though ...any chance the company helps out, recognizing the additional living/schooling/travel costs?  

 
So I may have an opportunity to move to Germany for work within the next couple of years.  VP of engineering raised the idea with me last week - no guarantees at this point, more of a talking about it situation.

Company is between Stuttgart and Munich.  Professionally, it would be a great opportunity for me - Germany is where all of our R & D will eventually be (I am a product development engineer).  My role would basically be representing the US market needs to their engineering team, and me living there would really help bridge that gap and forge those relationships.  When I come back, I would continue that role.

Personal concerns: I am married, kids ages 21, 9, 11.  Wife and young kids are all in.  Oldest kid - he's kind of a "failure to launch" scenario.  Not sure what he does if he's not sleeping in my basement. 

My wife is a real estate agent.  Thinking maybe she could fly back a week a month to keep her business flowing.  We would be looking at ~$10k/ year in airline expenses for her to do that - probably worth it in that she could make that much with a couple transactions.

The kids would probably have to go to a private school because they don't speak any English.  That's another $25k/year.

My house - I could certainly rent it out for less than my mortgage.  I could probably even make an extra $500/month or more, so that isn't much of a concern.

Anyone out there done something similar?  What do I need to be concerned about?
First thing is I'd start teaching your kids English before leaving this country.

 
Germany is typically an easier country to acclimate to for Americans...I'd do it.  Travel all over Europe for a few years, what's not to love about that?
That's what we are thinking.  Could be a great experience for the kids.

 
The kids can go to one of the International Schools.  I see there is one in Stuttgart and in Munich.

Go for it.  There is no downside.  Ask if your company will help with finding an apartment and school expenses.

The oldest is 21.  He can figure it out.

(I grew up in Italy and Dusseldorf, Germany.  Way good.)

If you have more specific questions, just ask.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The kids can go to one of the International Schools.  I see there is one in Stuttgart and in Munich.

Go for it.  There is no downside.  Ask if your company will help with finding an apartment and school expenses.

The oldest is 21.  He can figure it out.

(I grew up in Italy and Dusseldorf, Germany.  Way good.)

If you have more specific questions, just ask.
Ulm is the specific city I'd be in, and there is a school right there.

 
renting?  euro cities can be expensive.  what will you do with your place here?  pets?  medical insurance?  you will likely need something furnished.  
I assume I'd rent.  Probably furnished.  I'm sure we can rent out our place here.

My house has a finished basement.  I'm thinking I could move most of my furniture from upstairs to the basement, and lock tenants out, so I wouldn't have to pay as much for storage.

No pets.

Medical insurance...no idea.

 
The school has 190 students pre-K through 12.  Unless your kids are going to the Little Red Schoolhouse, that might be a surprise.  On the other hand, field trips are awesome.

 
Wife was just telling me about someone she knows who worked for j&j in China for  like 7 years and got 10 grand per month for living expenses on top of salary.
That would be sweet.  Not sure my company would give me an extra $120k.  I'm not that good.

 
Aspiring.

I have driven through ulm.  I love southern Germany.  Not seeing a lot of downside.  Good luck either way.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
my sister was a on a global rotation for her company and got her pay on top of all living expenses...ended up pocketing almost a half million after it was all said and done.

Do your research on what you should be paid, don't let your company take advantage of you...many companies will try to do that.

 
That would be sweet.  Not sure my company would give me an extra $120k.  I'm not that good.
Depends on the cost of living where you get transferred to.  Some companies are surprisingly generous.  Ours was.  It covered all school expenses and a trip back to the States every two years.

 
That would be sweet.  Not sure my company would give me an extra $120k.  I'm not that good.
not joking, a lot is involved.  but that makes it a great experience.  if thinking, start your research now and allow at 9-12 mos. prep time.  the visa is the hard part.  study this aspect.  also, knowing some language helps.  make sure passports are up to date.  ever been to ulm?  if not, go on a trip to visit and understand the area first and foremost.

 
Depends on the cost of living where you get transferred to.  Some companies are surprisingly generous.  Ours was.  It covered all school expenses and a trip back to the States every two years.
this sounds similar to my sister's package...she was just mid level management too.  Director I believe.

 
this sounds similar to my sister's package...she was just mid level management too.  Director I believe.
I think I might be in line for a promotion to director within the next couple of years.  There's been a lot of house- cleaning at my company and several VPs have strongly hinted that they have plans for me.  And, my current director thinks he's gonna be let go...I didn't think so, but reading the tea leaves, I think he might be right.

Unfortunately, business is not good these days so that kind of sucks.  Not sure they would be willing to shell out a lot of money.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
So I may have an opportunity to move to Germany for work within the next couple of years.  VP of engineering raised the idea with me last week - no guarantees at this point, more of a talking about it situation.

Company is between Stuttgart and Munich.  Professionally, it would be a great opportunity for me - Germany is where all of our R & D will eventually be (I am a product development engineer).  My role would basically be representing the US market needs to their engineering team, and me living there would really help bridge that gap and forge those relationships.  When I come back, I would continue that role.

Personal concerns: I am married, kids ages 21, 9, 11.  Wife and young kids are all in.  Oldest kid - he's kind of a "failure to launch" scenario.  Not sure what he does if he's not sleeping in my basement. 

My wife is a real estate agent.  Thinking maybe she could fly back a week a month to keep her business flowing.  We would be looking at ~$10k/ year in airline expenses for her to do that - probably worth it in that she could make that much with a couple transactions.

The kids would probably have to go to a private school because they don't speak any German.  That's another $25k/year.

My house - I could certainly rent it out for less than my mortgage.  I could probably even make an extra $500/month or more, so that isn't much of a concern.

Anyone out there done something similar?  What do I need to be concerned about?
I looked into it, Germany actually, but the wife nixed it as our twins were 2 and she wanted to wait another 2 years.

Going to start applying again this summer.

 
I looked into it, Germany actually, but the wife nixed it as our twins were 2 and she wanted to wait another 2 years.

Going to start applying again this summer.
Lol, figure it out and we'll meet up to watch a Bronco game.

 
not joking, a lot is involved.  but that makes it a great experience.  if thinking, start your research now and allow at 9-12 mos. prep time.  the visa is the hard part.  study this aspect.  also, knowing some language helps.  make sure passports are up to date.  ever been to ulm?  if not, go on a trip to visit and understand the area first and foremost.
Your company may be able to expedite the visa.  Ours came through in no time.  And my parents had to become citizens somewhere in there.  And we all needed passports.  

You may need some vaccinations, but Germany isn't exactly a hotbed of disease.

 
Germany is great.  They're also one of the more understanding countries if you don't speak German IME (because most of the world doesn't).  And I'd look a little closer into the public before you decide 100% on private schools; movies, TV shows, online games, etc. are mostly English so I've found a lot of young people speak English to some extent.  German is one of the easier languages to pick for American also; I'd say a year or so you'll be telling jokes in German. 

As for what's customary to ask for regarding relocation compensation, you have to negotiate that out.  Most companies will want to just give you a flat fixed amount and other will want receipts to reimburse your costs.  Keep in mind you don't want to be too unrealistic (like someone mentioned 10k on top of salary in this thread - that ain't happening dude); because the company will balance, is cost/value trade off better to relocate you or just train someone there.

 
So I may have an opportunity to move to Germany for work within the next couple of years.  VP of engineering raised the idea with me last week - no guarantees at this point, more of a talking about it situation.

Company is between Stuttgart and Munich.  Professionally, it would be a great opportunity for me - Germany is where all of our R & D will eventually be (I am a product development engineer).  My role would basically be representing the US market needs to their engineering team, and me living there would really help bridge that gap and forge those relationships.  When I come back, I would continue that role.

Personal concerns: I am married, kids ages 21, 9, 11.  Wife and young kids are all in.  Oldest kid - he's kind of a "failure to launch" scenario.  Not sure what he does if he's not sleeping in my basement. 

My wife is a real estate agent.  Thinking maybe she could fly back a week a month to keep her business flowing.  We would be looking at ~$10k/ year in airline expenses for her to do that - probably worth it in that she could make that much with a couple transactions.

The kids would probably have to go to a private school because they don't speak any German.  That's another $25k/year.

My house - I could certainly rent it out for less than my mortgage.  I could probably even make an extra $500/month or more, so that isn't much of a concern.

Anyone out there done something similar?  What do I need to be concerned about?
I was an expat three times from 1991 to 2007.

There are mainly two types of contracts. The classic "here's your net salary after local taxes, and a budget for kids' school, car, utilities, a home etc." There are probably more than one budget (i.e. a housing allowance, car allowance etc). This type of contract probabluy also takes into consideration any double taxation issues between Germany and the US.

The more modern type of contract is "Here's your gross salary, it's a pretty large amount, but you are in charge of how you spend it and, oh, by the way, remember to pay your taxes". The company may or may not assist you with technical knowledge on how to see if the offer is ok, how to do what.

You probably first need to figure out which type of contract they are talking about, then do your research from there.

I have a friend who just moved to Stuttgart from Buenos Aires. He's left his wife and kids behind until next year (youngest kid 16 I believe). That's also an option if the move doesn't correspond very well with the school year etc.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Your company may be able to expedite the visa.  Ours came through in no time.  And my parents had to become citizens somewhere in there.  And we all needed passports.  

You may need some vaccinations, but Germany isn't exactly a hotbed of disease.
i thought that you needed to physically go to the consulate here to apply for a visa.  maybe just italy, but i thought all those schengen countries required it.  like i said before....have you seen ulm before?  if not, take a trip first.  also, start applying for house hunters international.

 
i thought that you needed to physically go to the consulate here to apply for a visa.  maybe just italy, but i thought all those schengen countries required it.  like i said before....have you seen ulm before?  if not, take a trip first.  also, start applying for house hunters international.
I spent a week in Ulm last year.  Seems like a typical German town.  Good bit of industry, a halfway decent altstadt, etc.

 
I spent a week in Ulm last year.  Seems like a typical German town.  Good bit of industry, a halfway decent altstadt, etc.
no reason not to go, but there is so much to think about....like getting a car, opening a bank account, etc.  in italy, everything was allowed to us once we got what they call a codice fiscale.  i would see what is required there to rent a car, open a bank account, etc.  maybe go before you relocate and try to pick off some small things.  the bank account helps.  make sure all your bills here are electronic.  do you have a company credit card?  this sounds stupid, but europe is different.  bedrooms pretty much don’t have closets.  kitchens, if installed, are small.  ovens are not standard.  they don’t really use dryers.  washing machines are in the kitchen sometimes.  you will rough it a bit, but that’s the fun.  step outside the comfort zone, but be prepared for it.  in italy when we house searched, they were dirty, smelly.  in italy, when people move they take the kitchen with them, cabinets, appliances, everything.

 
no reason not to go, but there is so much to think about....like getting a car, opening a bank account, etc.  in italy, everything was allowed to us once we got what they call a codice fiscale.  i would see what is required there to rent a car, open a bank account, etc.  maybe go before you relocate and try to pick off some small things.  the bank account helps.  make sure all your bills here are electronic.  do you have a company credit card?  this sounds stupid, but europe is different.  bedrooms pretty much don’t have closets.  kitchens, if installed, are small.  ovens are not standard.  they don’t really use dryers.  washing machines are in the kitchen sometimes.  you will rough it a bit, but that’s the fun.  step outside the comfort zone, but be prepared for it.  in italy when we house searched, they were dirty, smelly.  in italy, when people move they take the kitchen with them, cabinets, appliances, everything.
I doubt Italy is much like Germany in this respect.  But it is something to ask (it certainly surprised me when I went to Brazil - but I had a white goods allowance so problem solved)

 
I doubt Italy is much like Germany in this respect.  But it is something to ask (it certainly surprised me when I went to Brazil - but I had a white goods allowance so problem solved)
you’d think, but nothing in europe surprises me.

 
no reason not to go, but there is so much to think about....like getting a car, opening a bank account, etc.  in italy, everything was allowed to us once we got what they call a codice fiscale.  i would see what is required there to rent a car, open a bank account, etc.  maybe go before you relocate and try to pick off some small things.  the bank account helps.  make sure all your bills here are electronic.  do you have a company credit card?  this sounds stupid, but europe is different.  bedrooms pretty much don’t have closets.  kitchens, if installed, are small.  ovens are not standard.  they don’t really use dryers.  washing machines are in the kitchen sometimes.  you will rough it a bit, but that’s the fun.  step outside the comfort zone, but be prepared for it.  in italy when we house searched, they were dirty, smelly.  in italy, when people move they take the kitchen with them, cabinets, appliances, everything.
Kitchen sink, too?

 
Kitchen sink, too?
everything....the room was empty.  i should post pics of my place before and after.  you could also bootleg my house hunters international episode.  you could also ask GM about it,  he has my episode scorched to his memory.

 
everything....the room was empty.  i should post pics of my place before and after.  you could also bootleg my house hunters international episode.  you could also ask GM about it,  he has my episode scorched to his memory.
Mama  Mia!

 
I might just do that. Although, not having an EU passport makes it considerably harder. My wife does want to leave the country and live/work abroad again.

For what it's worth, I lived as an expat / student in Spain from 2006-2008, about 1.5 years. It feels like a long time ago, but those were some formative years on my life, just past grad school, but, not really wanting to be an "adult" and focus on career, family, etc.

I was on a research grant from the Spanish government, and I worked at a government research lab, so technically my visa was a student visa, even if I wasn't enrolled in university. I could have stuck around, gotten a PhD and eventually permanent Spanish residency, but I had to make a choice about keeping my girlfriend (now wife) and staying in Spain. I don't regret that decision, especially when I look at my kids.

However, life in Europe is generally pleasant. Easier in many ways than in the US, although opportunities and ability to take risks are lower there.  I was working for very little money, but if you can make a good wage, then to me, it's a no brainer.  Many social services and public goods are provided or more accessible in Europe than in the US. Transport, school, health, recreation, retirement, vacation, etc. felt higher quality and better serving for the middle class.  History, culture, and cultural experience are awesome.

Some downsides: living spaces are smaller, as are automobiles.  It can be more difficult to find truly wild outdoor spaces. Beaches are generally further away and not as nice as in the Americas. Distance to extended family can be tough, and time zones differences particularly to the west coast can make communications more challenging.

As for your kids, I'd try and see how accommodating the local public schools will be if they are coming in with no German language skills. You might be surprised and find that the challenge of immersion in school there could be great for them. I'm not sure about the 21 year old, and he might even be excluded from your visa application, so be prepared for that. No advice there for him.

This is an amazing opportunity and I truly believe that your children will be enriched by the experience. You will too.

 
everything....the room was empty.  i should post pics of my place before and after.  you could also bootleg my house hunters international episode.  you could also ask GM about it,  he has my episode scorched to his memory.
You were on house hunters international? My wife and I binge watch that every 6 months or so. What was the title of the episode. PM me.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top