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Mario Kart

What an embarrassment for our country. re: Immigration

224 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, rude classless thugs said:

I guess you missed what was posted, which is copied below. Obama didn't separate the young children of asylum seekers from their parents pending the review of the asylum request.

please watch this - thoughts ?

https://www.facebook.com/WhiteHouse/videos/1719760358111690/

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5 minutes ago, rude classless thugs said:

I don't have time to watch every link to a YouTube and Facebook video. Summarize what the video says and the point the Facebook poster is trying to make.

it explains the process

 

look, Obama's administration arrested a LOT of illegally here people, didn't they ? and if they had kids with them .... what do ya'll think happened? you think those kids were sent to jail with the parents?

this issue of separating kids is what happens - it happens to the US citizens when CPS says the parents are abusing or unfit, it happens when parents / guardians break the law and are jailed - that's how it works

its also how it worked under Obama

this news about it being new with Trump is all lies - it IS new that Trump has a zero tolerance policy and if you're illegally here,  you're going to go to jail and be processed until the authorities know the situation and if you have kids with you? then you knew the risk dragging them 2,000 miles and all the dangers and abuse and such which probably in many cases warrants the Child Abuse stamp in and of itsself

please, PLEASE come here legally and all the problems with illegally here disappear

 

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39 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

No, it hasn’t. The “this” here is obviously proceedings for and deportation of small children who were brought across the border by their parents and have no idea what’s going on, not 15 year olds who crossed the border alone and were detained. The article in the OP is about a one year old.  That sort of thing is a consequence of recent policies like zero tolerance and family separation, not longstanding practices.

That doesn’t make either process ok and I think it’s great to bring light to both problems. But to compare and conflate the two and is way, way off.  All it does provides cover for the monsters who dictated the family separation policy and the [insert your choice of obvious adjective I can’t use in this forum] people who enable and support the monsters.  Just look at all the [insert adjective] people liking and citing to your inaccurate comparison.

It didn't happen on this scale for sure. But it did happen. Immigration courts are ####ed up. Trump has certainly made it way, way worse. But it was bad before him too.

Can a 3 year old represent herself in immigration court? This judge thinks so.

From far down in the article - 

 

According to Justice Department figures, 42 percent of the more than 20,000 unaccompanied children involved in deportation proceedings completed between July 2014 and late December had no attorney. It is unclear how often children 5 or younger are forced to defend themselves, but attorneys and advocates for immigrants said it does happen.

Senate Minority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) and other Democrats this month introduced a bill mandating government-appointed counsel for children in immigration court who had crossed the border alone or are victims of other duress such as abuse, torture or violence. In a Feb. 11 speech on the Senate floor, Reid said he was told about one case in which a 5-year-old girl was brought before an immigration judge.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

illegally coming to the United States isn't a good thing - if the parents wouldn't do it, there would be no problems

So I take it that if you committed a crime, you'd be okay with your 1-year old child having to represent himself/herself in court, with regards to his/her placement in the child services system?

Edited by Bayhawks

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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

 

These illegally here people have created the situation, and its a very difficult one that every administration has promised to fix and all have failed and its cost US taxpayers billions and the impact on US citizens is significant.

The solution is to 100% stop people from coming here illegally. We allow more than 1 million legal immigrants every year, I think that number can increase

“America is a nation of laws, which means I, as the president, am obligated to enforce the law. I don't have a choice about that. That's part of my job,”

Obama said that FYI, not Trump and read what Democrats have said about Illegally here people and immigration - tough talk, they just never actually delivered on any of it

 

https://gop.com/flashback-democrats-talked-tough-on-immigration-rsr/

 

 

 

 

So, if as POtuS, Trump is obligated to enforce the law, why does he continue to tweet about breaking it by saying we should deny due process?

no Judges or Court Cases

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15 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

it explains the process

 

look, Obama's administration arrested a LOT of illegally here people, didn't they ? and if they had kids with them .... what do ya'll think happened? you think those kids were sent to jail with the parents?

this issue of separating kids is what happens - it happens to the US citizens when CPS says the parents are abusing or unfit, it happens when parents / guardians break the law and are jailed - that's how it works

its also how it worked under Obama

No, Obama never separated asylum seekers from their children pending review of their claim for asylum. That is a new policy Jeff Session, under Trump, implemented.

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1 hour ago, HellToupee said:

This is the problem at the border, they’ve been instructed to ask for asylum and that sets a chain of events in motion besides the :moneybag: asylum seekers get if approved 

So, if they come across the border without asking for asylum, that's the problem b/c they are breaking the law; but at the same time, if they request asylum at the border and follow the law, that's also the problem?

OK.:rolleyes:

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, whoknew said:

This is false. And you've been told previously that it was false. Yet you continue to state it. Why?

ETA-Never mind, someone else beat me to it.

Edited by Bayhawks

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44 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

this news about it being new with Trump is all lies - it IS new that Trump has a zero tolerance policy and if you're illegally here,  you're going to go to jail and be processed until the authorities know the situation and if you have kids with you? then you knew the risk dragging them 2,000 miles and all the dangers and abuse and such which probably in many cases warrants the Child Abuse stamp in and of itsself

please, PLEASE come here legally and all the problems with illegally here disappear

 

The lack of empathy in this passage is astounding.  You also keep ignoring that seeking asylum qualifies as coming here legally.

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1 hour ago, Bayhawks said:

So I take it that if you committed a crime, you'd be okay with your 1-year old child having to represent himself/herself in court, with regards to his/her placement in the child services system?

I don't know about all that ....exactly how that happens but I did find this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/can-a-3-year-old-represent-herself-in-immigration-court-this-judge-thinks-so/2016/03/03/5be59a32-db25-11e5-925f-1d10062cc82d_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8102db95ad72

within that story is this

According to Justice Department figures, 42 percent of the more than 20,000 unaccompanied children involved in deportation proceedings completed between July 2014 and late December had no attorney.

 

Read that again - Obama years. So this has been happening all along - its not new except that the left is making it public now. Why make it so public and front line news now ? We know the answer - more Trump hate.

As to the core question on how young children have to appear in immigration courts and such, I'm not a lawyer and I've not read an exceptional amount to understand that.

I can see its been happening all through the Obama years too though, hasn't it ? but never an issue much until now

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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

 

this news about it being new with Trump is all lies - it IS new that Trump has a zero tolerance policy and if you're illegally here,  you're going to go to jail and be processed until the authorities know the situation and if you have kids with you? then you knew the risk dragging them 2,000 miles and all the dangers and abuse and such which probably in many cases warrants the Child Abuse stamp in and of itsself

please, PLEASE come here legally and all the problems with illegally here disappear

 

No, what is MOSTLY lies (I won’t engage in the same hyperbole that you did) is your post above.  

This is new, under Trump.  Previous administrations did not separate families seeking asylum.  And, the Trump administration is separating families who follow US law (ie-not illegally) by presenting themselves as asylum seekers.

So, you lied when you said it’s not new under Trump, and you lied when you said if they just come here legally, all the problems disappear. 

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2 hours ago, packersfan said:

I don't know how any human, no matter how much you believe in Trump, can support this. This isn't political; this is about right and wrong as people and what's being done to these children is criminal. It would be nice if Trump supporters could at least acknowledge that even while maintaining the belief that our immigration policies need to be improved (which is a completely valid position).

Sadly ...

 

2 hours ago, whoknew said:

Trump is a terrible person and undoubtedly made this worse BUT - 

this has been going on for a while. Including during the Obama administration. Its disgusting.

Link

 

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3 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

I don't know about all that ....exactly how that happens but I did find this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/can-a-3-year-old-represent-herself-in-immigration-court-this-judge-thinks-so/2016/03/03/5be59a32-db25-11e5-925f-1d10062cc82d_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8102db95ad72

within that story is this

According to Justice Department figures, 42 percent of the more than 20,000 unaccompanied children involved in deportation proceedings completed between July 2014 and late December had no attorney.

 

Read that again - Obama years. So this has been happening all along - its not new except that the left is making it public now. Why make it so public and front line news now ? We know the answer - more Trump hate.

As to the core question on how young children have to appear in immigration courts and such, I'm not a lawyer and I've not read an exceptional amount to understand that.

I can see its been happening all through the Obama years too though, hasn't it ? but never an issue much until now

You didn’t answer my question; are you okay with YOUR 1-year old child having to fend for him/herself I’m family court/the social services system if you are charged with a crime?  

No what abouts, no but Obama’s, no but Democrats/liberals, etc.  Would you be okay with that practice?

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1 minute ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

 

 

I'm just talking about kids having to represent themselves in immigration court. It happened sometimes under Obama and Bush. 

Trump obviously made this much, much worse through his policy of prosecuting everyone and, thus, separating kids from their parents.

Under Obama, that stat I read was that like 21% of people who crossed the border without documentation were prosecuted. And it was rare for kids to be separated from their parents.

Under Trump, that's a feature of the program. Its a unique kind of evil that he has embraced.

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4 hours ago, Gachi said:

I think a lot of these children will end up in the hands of pedos. 

Very sad. 

and, as we all know...pedos lead to ca-cas

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7 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

I don't know about all that ....exactly how that happens but I did find this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/can-a-3-year-old-represent-herself-in-immigration-court-this-judge-thinks-so/2016/03/03/5be59a32-db25-11e5-925f-1d10062cc82d_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8102db95ad72

within that story is this

According to Justice Department figures, 42 percent of the more than 20,000 unaccompanied children involved in deportation proceedings completed between July 2014 and late December had no attorney.

 

Read that again - Obama years. So this has been happening all along - its not new except that the left is making it public now. Why make it so public and front line news now ? We know the answer - more Trump hate.

As to the core question on how young children have to appear in immigration courts and such, I'm not a lawyer and I've not read an exceptional amount to understand that.

I can see its been happening all through the Obama years too though, hasn't it ? but never an issue much until now

 

This is exactly what @TobiasFunke was complaining about. The difference in scale and motivation is enormous. 

There were children who had to represent themselves in court during the Obama administration. That's the point. But the VAST majority of those were kids who came across the border alone. 

Its a feature of Trump's program to separate the kids from their parents and not have the means to reunite them. That's new and despicable.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, whoknew said:

There's plenty of room to hate the system and hate Trump. He's a terrible, awful human being. 

But that doesn't mean this wasn't going on before Trump was President.

It also doesn’t mean look the other way and excise it now because it happened before.  It’s happening now...what are we doing to fix it...because saying “it’s been done before” which appears to be the GOP mantra,isn’t helping.

To clarify...Im not stating that is what you are doing here

Edited by sho nuff

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42 minutes ago, Dickies said:

The lack of empathy in this passage is astounding.  You also keep ignoring that seeking asylum qualifies as coming here legally.

boy ya'll have grabbed this asylum thing and went bonkers with it

for 8 years of Obama nobody ever mentioned asylum, in all the deportations his administration did

why ?

why didn't ya'll raise bloody hell about that? the answer is ... the left loved Obama, the disaster of illegal immigration and southern border ya'll didn't care about

you do now, because you can use it to make Trump look bad

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Just now, sho nuff said:

It also doesn’t mean look the other way and excise it now because it happened before.  It’s happening now...what are we doing to fix it...because saying “it’s been done before” which appears to be the GOP mantra,isn’t helping.

Right. And when I was saying this happened during the Obama administration - I specifically meant children having to represent themselves in immigration court without a lawyer. 

NOT Trump's policy of prosecuting 100% of the people so that we can separate the kids from the parents. That's despicable. And unique to Trump.

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Just now, whoknew said:

This is exactly what @TobiasFunke was complaining about. The difference in scale and motivation is enormous. 

There were children who had to represent themselves in court during the Obama administration. That's the point. But the VAST majority of those were kids who came across the border alone. 

Its a feature of Trump's program to separate the kids from their parents and not have the means to reunite them. That's new and despicable.

ok so now we see it DID happen

thanks, at least someone understands a bit and acknowledges

how do you know all these that's being talked about didn't come alone ?

I highly disagree with the the red - provide links that the red is true please. What Trump is doing is actually trying to stop the illegals flowing across the borders and prosecuting every one, and because they choose to bring kids, and because kids can't be jailed with parents .... there is separation. is EO is to stop that, but its way more complicated (see the video I posted or look on youtube)

 

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

boy ya'll have grabbed this asylum thing and went bonkers with it

for 8 years of Obama nobody ever mentioned asylum, in all the deportations his administration did

why ?

why didn't ya'll raise bloody hell about that? the answer is ... the left loved Obama, the disaster of illegal immigration and southern border ya'll didn't care about

you do now, because you can use it to make Trump look bad

Probably because Obama never discussed suspending asylum and/or due process for asylum seekers. Trump, on the other hand, did exactly that.

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Trump makes himself look bad on a daily basis all by himself. He doesn't need anyone else's help with that. 

Basic math, where our country is on a globe and why his cable package has other channels besides FOX News? Yes. But not making himself look bad.

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

ok so now we see it DID happen

thanks, at least someone understands a bit and acknowledges

how do you know all these that's being talked about didn't come alone ?

I highly disagree with the the red - provide links that the red is true please. What Trump is doing is actually trying to stop the illegals flowing across the borders and prosecuting every one, and because they choose to bring kids, and because kids can't be jailed with parents .... there is separation. is EO is to stop that, but its way more complicated (see the video I posted or look on youtube)

 

What do you mean provide links? Its been all over the news for the last 3 months.

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12 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

Previous administrations did not separate families seeking asylum

you do know that the pictures and numbers were mostly from Obama era right ?

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

you do know that the pictures and numbers were mostly from Obama era right ?

That must mean all the politicians and reporters who have gone there in the past few months went back in time to film everything.

That's pretty awesome.

Wonder if that's how the Avengers are gonna ultimately beat Thanos. 

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Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

you do know that the pictures and numbers were mostly from Obama era right ?

You do know the pictures and numbers weren’t of families that were seeking asylum, lefagally, in accordance with US law, right?

ETA-AGAIN, stop trying to use “what about-isms;” Would you be okay with your 1-year old having to fend for himself/herself in the legal or social services system if you were charged with a crime, regardless of whether the president was Trump, Obama, GOP, or Dem?

Edited by Bayhawks

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

boy ya'll have grabbed this asylum thing and went bonkers with it

for 8 years of Obama nobody ever mentioned asylum, in all the deportations his administration did

why ?

why didn't ya'll raise bloody hell about that? the answer is ... the left loved Obama, the disaster of illegal immigration and southern border ya'll didn't care about

you do now, because you can use it to make Trump look bad

There is plenty of room to criticize Obama, but I have a hard time figuring out what your position with him is.  Did he deport too many people, or did he have an open border and let everyone in?

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22 minutes ago, whoknew said:

Probably because Obama never discussed suspending asylum and/or due process for asylum seekers. Trump, on the other hand, did exactly that.

asylum is new words used by the left

same people coming for same reasons they always have for the most part

Obama housed them pretty much the same, deported them the same, tried them in courts the same .... what's changed is Trump is cracking down hard and trying to get this illegally coming here under control, Obama didn't

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22 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

You do know the pictures and numbers weren’t of families that were seeking asylum, lefagally, in accordance with US law, right?

ETA-AGAIN, stop trying to use “what about-isms;” Would you be okay with your 1-year old having to fend for himself/herself in the legal or social services system if you were charged with a crime, regardless of whether the president was Trump, Obama, GOP, or Dem?

who knows what they were here for ... you don't, I don't ........... the authorities handle it

was it kids with coyotes? kids with human sex traffickers? kids with family members but not parents? kids alone because their parents abandoned them? I don't know, you don't know ....

this is cnn article too - do not believe the lies that are spreading across the media world on how Trump is or isn't ........... the same procedures and process as Obama,  except he's enforcing the laws to EVERYONE caught here illegally so they can figure it all out - giant damn mess, created by a weak southern border and people flowing across illegally

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/29/us/immigration-refugee-child-missing-hhs-obama-photo-trnd/index.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae23MjN9GOU

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28 minutes ago, Dickies said:

There is plenty of room to criticize Obama, but I have a hard time figuring out what your position with him is.  Did he deport too many people, or did he have an open border and let everyone in?

my problem is spending a billion dollars a year for 8 years and no solution is a complete disaster - whatever bad things are happening at the border in 2017? it all happened in 2015 and 2012 and 2002 and 1998 too with varying waves of numbers

the process and procedures have not changed much - actually applying the laws and enforcing them? that's changed

 

my biggest complaint is the left is just bonkers right now over this ....and for 8 years were pretty much silent with how Obama's administrations did the same things except they didn't enforce the laws as much on prosecuting the illegally being here. Had they done that, the proceedings would have been the same

 

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Posted (edited)

Why do people engage other people who lie blatantly and repeatedly and then deny or simply ignore the truth when it is pointed out to them?

You don’t have to do this.  People like that aren’t going to be convinced of anything.  Defeat them by registering voters and getting them to the polls unified behind candidates who can stop the madness. In the meantime there’s an ignore feature here.

Edited by TobiasFunke
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12 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

asylum is new words used by the left

same people coming for same reasons they always have for the most part

Obama housed them pretty much the same, deported them the same, tried them in courts the same .... what's changed is Trump is cracking down hard and trying to get this illegally coming here under control, Obama didn't

No asylum is an old word that has been used for decades in this country. Jewish people pre WW2 asked for asylum while fleeing Nazi Germany. Plenty of historical examples of this before that if one wishes to research it.

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35 minutes ago, rude classless thugs said:

No asylum is an old word that has been used for decades in this country. Jewish people pre WW2 asked for asylum while fleeing Nazi Germany.

Asylum has three basic requirements. First, an asylum applicant must establish that he or she fears persecution in their home country.[3] Second, the applicant must prove that he or she would be persecuted on account of one of five protected grounds: race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group. Third, an applicant must establish that the government is either involved in the persecution, or unable to control the conduct of private actors

A specified number of legally defined refugees who either apply for asylum from inside the U.S. or apply for refugee status from outside the U.S., are admitted annually. Refugees compose about one-tenth of the total annual immigration to the United States,

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Why do people engage other people who lie blatantly and repeatedly and then deny or simply ignore the truth when it is pointed out to them?

You don’t have to do this.  People like that aren’t going to be convinced of anything.  Defeat them by registering voters and getting them to the polls unified behind candidates who can stop the madness. In the meantime there’s an ignore feature here.

and yet I'm providing links proving what I'm saying

the truth ?

Obama's process and procedures were pretty much the same that Trump uses - Trump is prosecuting many more to try and stop this problem, that's the true part of this

The detention centers, the arresting of illegally here criminals, the deportations, the kids in the immigration courts .... all that's been happening all along

Ya'll didn't know, didn't care under Obama but you do under Trump because its Trump and you can use it to divide and cause chaos. That's the truth

Clinton didn't do it

Obama didn't do it
 

Quote

 

PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: “All Americans, not only in the States most heavily affected but in every place in this country, are rightly disturbed by the large numbers of illegal aliens entering our country.

The jobs they hold might otherwise be held by citizens or legal immigrants. The public service they use impose burdens on our taxpayers.

That's why our administration has moved aggressively to secure our borders more by hiring a record number of new border guards, by deporting twice as many criminal aliens as ever before, by cracking down on illegal hiring, by barring welfare benefits to illegal aliens.

In the budget I will present to you, we will try to do more to speed the deportation of illegal aliens who are arrested for crimes, to better identify illegal aliens in the workplace...

We are a nation of immigrants. But we are also a nation of laws. It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it.” (Bill Clinton, Remarks At State Of The Union, Washington, D.C., 1/24/95)

 

Quote

 

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: “Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my administration has already made -- putting more boots on the Southern border than at any time in our history and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years.

Real reform means establishing a responsible pathway to earned citizenship -- a path that includes passing a background check, paying taxes and a meaningful penalty, learning English, and going to the back of the line behind the folks trying to come here legally.

And real reform means fixing the legal immigration system to cut waiting periods and attract the highly-skilled entrepreneurs and engineers that will help create jobs and grow our economy.” (President Barack Obama, Remarks At State Of The Union, Washington, D.C., 2/12/13)

 

 

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Stunned that a 1 year old child is in court?   

 

Yeah....that happens everyday in this country during custody disputes.    Move along to the next fake outrage.   

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40 minutes ago, packersfan said:

In today's least surprising story:

The Hill‏Verified account @thehill 50s51 seconds ago

#BREAKING: Trump admin won’t meet deadline to reunite young children separated from parents

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/396145-trump-admin-wont-meet-deadline-to-reunite-separated-families

They are good at talking, not so much doing.  See Korea, North. 

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Just now, Sabertooth said:

They are good at talking, not so much doing.  See Korea, North. 

See 8 years spent #####ing about the ACA without once providing a legitimate alternative. 

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

and yet I'm providing links proving what I'm saying

Your saying what happened under Obama is the same thing happening under Trump.  I have yet to see a link from you showing Obama's policy on separating asylum seeker families from each other.  You've given us a link that shows the policy of a ton of child refugees showing up and how that was was handled and how they were processed.  That, of course, isn't the same as families coming to this country together seeking asylum.  You've been told a billion times that while the end results are "locking people up" under both Obama and Trump, the circumstances are completely different and not comparable at all.  :shrug: 

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