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Mario Kart

What an embarrassment for our country. re: Immigration

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15 minutes ago, Calvitron Johnson said:

oops, you got owned!!!!!! 

 

The sentence preceding your quote adds some perspective. 

“Although a network of pro bono organizations and a Justice Department program try to help children find attorneys — some paid for by the government — many children are forced to fend for themselves.” 

So, it was primarily a funding issue. I would also point out that it was shown upthread that the Obama administration separated very few families, compared with the massive amount under Trump’s zero-tolerance policy. Also, in 2014 there was a huge wave of thousands of unaccompanied minors, so children representing themselves was going to happen, as a result of the funding issues and the influx of children showing up by themselves. 

 

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51 minutes ago, Calvitron Johnson said:

oops, you got owned!!!!!! 

 

Where in that link did it discuss those children that were taken from their parents who had requested asylum legally?  Because that’s the issue that is at hand; the Trump administration’s zero-tolerance policy forcing people who broke no law and requested asylum LEGALLY, which the Obama administration didn’t do.

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2 hours ago, irishidiot said:

From the commish:

There is no law requiring a child be separated from their parents while they are seeking asylum.  That's a Trump policy never done by another President in our history.  There are other situations where the law requires people be separated from their parents and those situations have occurred over time under several different Presidents.  Those are DIFFERENT processes and procedures from what Trump is doing now.

 

so is what Trump is doing against the law?

Taking children away from people who come here, and follow all us laws to request asylum?

In simple legal terms, failing to provide due process (against the law).

In moral terms, taking innocent children away from their parents because “they are not like us” ( a d_ _ _ move).

 

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14 hours ago, The Commish said:

There is no law requiring a child be separated from their parents while they are seeking asylum.

they're not seeking asylum - that's a new way the Democrat's are justifying illegally here people

 

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3 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

they're not seeking asylum - that's a new way the Democrat's are justifying illegally here people

 

bull####

 

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13 hours ago, Bayhawks said:

Maybe you should try actually reading about the issue & not just regurgitation Fox News talking points.  There was occasional separation of families under the Obama administration, but nowhere near level it is happening now.  Nielsen admitted as much, in the video YOU posted:

“They (the Obama administration) absolutely did (separate families).  They did — their rate was less than ours, but they absolutely did do this.”

What she failed to mention was that this “lesser rate” she spoke of was 1-2 families separated a year (Obama) vs over 2400 children taken from their families in one month (Trump).  

Your CNN article is from 2 months ago, BEFORE Trump’s NEW policy of separating ALL families entering the country (whether they did so legally/illegally) was public knowledge.  Your bias and cherry-picking of information to try to fit your pre-formed talking points is laughable, while you continue to ignore a simple question: would you be comfortable with YOUR 1-year old having to act on his/her own behalf in family court/the social services system if you were arrested for a crime?

define occasional - give me the numbers please because people here have said it did NOT happen - and yet, it dang sure did

what are the numbers?   well, we know tens of thousands of kids had to go to Immigration courts ........... were they separated from their parents? abandoned? 

its not clear (like any Govt issue)    but the numbers are out there that show there were huge spikes under Obama with kids being in shelters/centers etc and huge spikes in deportation numbers too ...... that smells like separating families except for those 8 years Democrats didn't care, they just didn't

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-administration-holding-more-immigrant-children-shelters-ever-949099

"In fiscal year 2013, under the Barack Obama administration, the HHS Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR) had as many as 25,000 unaccompanied children in its care across 80 shelters, according to a July 2014 article in Mother Jones."

 

 

yes, Trump escalated by having a zero tolerance policy and I'm all for that because this issue HAS to be solved. 8 years Obama solved nothing - fact

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, The Football Freak said:

I would also point out that it was shown upthread that the Obama administration separated very few families

that's simply not known ...... what we DO know is there were massive spiked in deportation AND massive spiked in kids being put in holding centers AND tens of thousands going to immigration court hearings

 

I will say, as I support Trump's administration in handling illegally here, I also supported Obama. The southern border HAS to be fixed, that problem HAS to be addressed and its not easy

A 8 year old kid walks across the border is NOT an easy deal it. Who is the child? Abused? drug mule? where are the parents? family? there are processes and procedures that have to be followed that take time and money and effort .......... and whomever put that kid on the border, they damn well knew it would be too

 

Edited by Stealthycat

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oh and UNACCOMPANIED means they weren't with their parents which would make it difficult to be separated from their parents wouldn't it?

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18 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

define occasional - give me the numbers please because people here have said it did NOT happen - and yet, it dang sure did

what are the numbers?   well, we know tens of thousands of kids had to go to Immigration courts ........... were they separated from their parents? abandoned? 

its not clear (like any Govt issue)    but the numbers are out there that show there were huge spikes under Obama with kids being in shelters/centers etc and huge spikes in deportation numbers too ...... that smells like separating families except for those 8 years Democrats didn't care, they just didn't

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-administration-holding-more-immigrant-children-shelters-ever-949099

"In fiscal year 2013, under the Barack Obama administration, the HHS Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR) had as many as 25,000 unaccompanied children in its care across 80 shelters, according to a July 2014 article in Mother Jones."

 

 

yes, Trump escalated by having a zero tolerance policy and I'm all for that because this issue HAS to be solved. 8 years Obama solved nothing - fact

 

 

 

You keep conflating numbers.  Either you are doing it because you really don't understand what is being discussed, or (more likely) because you understand the issue, but know that your talking points are wrong and want to try to muddy the waters to defend Trump's illegal and immoral policy.

The issue is Trump separating families that HAVE BROKEN NO LAW.  Those people who come here, present themselves to American authorities in accordance with American law, and request asylum.  The Trump administration is separating these families, as a matter of practice, as part of their zero-tolerance policy.  The Obama administration did not.  There are no numbers to support your assertion that they did. 

YOU are the one that keeps claiming that Trump is merely doing what Obama did, so YOU show some proof of YOUR claims.  Show me a link that shows that the Obama administration separated families of people that followed all US laws in requesting asylum.  NOT the same link you keep pointing to that discusses how families that illegally entered the county were separated.  That's not the issue being discussed.  I've already provided links to show that Trump is separating families that have broken no laws.  They are upthread.  It's your turn to actually provide support for your claim.

While you are at it, can you please answer the question that has been posed multiple times? 

Are you okay with YOUR 1-year old having to fend for himself/herself in court and/or the social service system if you were to be arrested for suspicion of committing a crime?

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7 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

The issue is Trump separating families that HAVE BROKEN NO LAW.  Those people who come here, present themselves to American authorities in accordance with American law, and request asylum.  The Trump administration is separating these families, as a matter of practice, as part of their zero-tolerance policy.  The Obama administration did not.  There are no numbers to support your assertion that they did.

as I understand it that's not what'd happening ........... there are definitions and proceedings to asylum, you cannot claim it just because you want to come to the USA

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

as I understand it that's not what'd happening ........... there are definitions and proceedings to asylum, you cannot claim it just because you want to come to the USA

Then you understand it wrong.  I provided links upthread, both to articles discussing it, and a court case where the government is being sued for this practice of the Trump administration.

ETA-so, where are your links?  And, what is your answer to the question posed?

 

Edited by Bayhawks
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8 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

YOU are the one that keeps claiming that Trump is merely doing what Obama did, so YOU show some proof of YOUR claims.  Show me a link that shows that the Obama administration separated families of people that followed all US laws in requesting asylum.  NOT the same link you keep pointing to that discusses how families that illegally entered the county were separated.  That's not the issue being discussed.  I've already provided links to show that Trump is separating families that have broken no laws.  They are upthread.  It's your turn to actually provide support for your claim.

While you are at it, can you please answer the question that has been posed multiple times? 

Are you okay with YOUR 1-year old having to fend for himself/herself in court and/or the social service system if you were to be arrested for suspicion of committing a crime?

I have shown link after link, its your responsibility to open them and understand the correlations and information. i cannot do that for you

Illegally here people and those seeking asylum ..... how do you separate them ? you don't - the authorities do

 

As to your question if that's the way the proceedings are set by rules of our law then I guess the 1 year old goes to a hearing - that's the laws. Trump didn't create all that, it was already in place and again, under obama there were tens of thousands of youth going to same court proceedings and ya'll didn't care about it then

 

why ?

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

(1) I have shown link after link, its your responsibility to open them and understand the correlations and information. i cannot do that for you

(2) Illegally here people and those seeking asylum ..... how do you separate them ? you don't - the authorities do

 

(3) As to your question if that's the way the proceedings are set by rules of our law then I guess the 1 year old goes to a hearing - that's the laws. Trump didn't create all that, it was already in place and again, under obama there were tens of thousands of youth going to same court proceedings and ya'll didn't care about it then

 

why ?

1-You haven't shown a single link that shows the Obama administration separated families that broke no laws. That is the issue at hand, that is what you are claiming (that Obama did it first).  So, again, please provide a link that proves your assertion, not the many links you've provided to try to muddy the waters.

2-Those seeking asylum, LEGALLY, present themselves to American authorities and request asylum.  Those who do not are committing a crime.  That's how you separate them.  Obama didn't separate those families who followed US law when requesting asylum, Trump has.

3-That wasn't my question.  Would YOU be okay with YOUR 1-year old having to fend for him/herself in legal matters if you were arrested for a crime? 

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31 minutes ago, The Commish said:

oh and UNACCOMPANIED means they weren't with their parents which would make it difficult to be separated from their parents wouldn't it?

not difficult for it to be mis-reported no

its not an easy situation, it could all be 100% stopped by not coming here illegally or abandoning your kids at the border

how many are sent alone towards the US border and end up dead, in drug cartels, sex trade etc?  all that is made possible by having a porous southern border and sanctuary cities that encourage, literally, human trafficking

its unbelievable ya'll want to continue that

8 years Obama did nothing to help stop it - will 4 or 8 years of Trump?   all remains to be seen but I'll tell you this, in that what if scenario on the 1 year old

 

if I am a single parent of a 1 year old and I go 1,000 miles south, across the Mexico border, illegally and I get caught by Mexican immigration authorities ?   I damn sure know right now, ahead of time, they're separating me and my kid and I will likely be put in prison and might not ever see my kid again.

if I decide to go anyway, the repercussions of that decision are on ME - my choices, my fault

 

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1 minute ago, Bayhawks said:

1-You haven't shown a single link that shows the Obama administration separated families that broke no laws. That is the issue at hand, that is what you are claiming (that Obama did it first).  So, again, please provide a link that proves your assertion, not the many links you've provided to try to muddy the waters.

2-Those seeking asylum, LEGALLY, present themselves to American authorities and request asylum.  Those who do not are committing a crime.  That's how you separate them.  Obama didn't separate those families who followed US law when requesting asylum, Trump has.

3-That wasn't my question.  Would YOU be okay with YOUR 1-year old having to fend for him/herself in legal matters if you were arrested for a crime?

1-     Here illegally is against the law. You can apply for asylum, but all that has to be processed and figured out

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/obtaining-asylum-united-states

2-    no, its not that easy because people are liars. Do you think drug cartel and MS13 gang members and criminals on the run will lie about asylum ? here is a link and numbers for you

chew on this

"Between 2009 and 2015 his administration has removed more than 2.5 million people through immigration orders, which doesn’t include the number of people who "self-deported" or were turned away and/or returned to their home country at the border by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP)."

"According to governmental data, the Obama administration has deported more people than any other president's administration in history.

In fact, they have deported more than the sum of all the presidents of the 20th century."

were they asylum seekers? was Obama the anti-asylum President ?  maybe its the same people Trump is having to deal with ?  how many are re-entry and that's a felony conviction

3-   you don't like the answer because it doesn't fit your agenda ............ I believe in owning responsibility so yes, if my 1 year old suffered through the proceedings of the law in which I placed him with my choices, I'd have to be ok with that because it was the risk I took and its my fault for him being there. Not his fault, not the legal proceedings in which they're all just doing their jobs ..... that fault for him being there is mine for going to another country illegally.

 

 

 

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I will say this.

The left knows how to stir the feelings of the people of this country and not the happy, feel good ones but the anger and hatred ones.

Damn shame in 8 years of Obama this same border / illegally here problem wasn't addressed and maybe that administration could have done something about it. True too that GW had 8 years and did nothing either, nor did Bush Sr nor did Bill Clinton.  But they didn't and this administration has to.

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1 hour ago, The Commish said:

bull####

 

riddle me this

Obama deported record numbers - true or false ?

were they all asylum seekers ?

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

1-     Here illegally is against the law. You can apply for asylum, but all that has to be processed and figured out

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/obtaining-asylum-united-states

2-    no, its not that easy because people are liars. Do you think drug cartel and MS13 gang members and criminals on the run will lie about asylum ? here is a link and numbers for you

chew on this

"Between 2009 and 2015 his administration has removed more than 2.5 million people through immigration orders, which doesn’t include the number of people who "self-deported" or were turned away and/or returned to their home country at the border by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP)."

"According to governmental data, the Obama administration has deported more people than any other president's administration in history.

In fact, they have deported more than the sum of all the presidents of the 20th century."

were they asylum seekers? was Obama the anti-asylum President ?  maybe its the same people Trump is having to deal with ?  how many are re-entry and that's a felony conviction

3-   you don't like the answer because it doesn't fit your agenda ............ I believe in owning responsibility so yes, if my 1 year old suffered through the proceedings of the law in which I placed him with my choices, I'd have to be ok with that because it was the risk I took and its my fault for him being there. Not his fault, not the legal proceedings in which they're all just doing their jobs ..... that fault for him being there is mine for going to another country illegally.

 

 

 

1-Good god, man!  There is a legal process for requesting asylum.  It's not "sneak across the border, get arrested, then say 'asylum!' "  If these people follow all the LEGAL requirements for requesting asylum, THEY ARE NOT HERE ILLEGALLY!  Stop trying to cloud the issue by posting irrelevant nonsense/

LEGAL process to request asylum in the US, WITHOUT BREAKING ANY LAW, i.e.-NOT here illegally

2-Since you don't understand the difference between what is legal and illegal, this point you made (like much of what you've posted in this thread) is meaningless.

3-Thank you for FINALLY answering the question.  I hope you are being disingenuous, because it says A LOT about you if you think a 1-year old should have to suffer for any faults/sins/crimes of his/her parent.

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you didn't talk about Obama and all the ones his administration sent back ..... they were illegal, but not asylum seekers right ?

maybe, just maybe, that's what's happening here too, a continuation of the southern border issue and the left is using asylum to stir anger and hate ?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/07/10/guatemalan-national-pays-280-fine-for-negligent-driving-in-crash-that-killed-fbi-agent-fire-marshal.html

I guess he was asylum seeker ?

 

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

you didn't talk about Obama and all the ones his administration sent back ..... they were illegal, but not asylum seekers right ?

So Trump was lying and you fell for it when the big rallying cry to elect Trump was we needed tougher immigration and border security, but now you are saying we had it under Obama??

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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

as I understand it that's not what'd happening ........... there are definitions and proceedings to asylum, you cannot claim it just because you want to come to the USA

Exactly....you understand it wrong, but instead of listening to those of us trying to explain it, you're having none of it and continuing with your misunderstanding as if it means something building the gamut of deflection "arguments" all the way down to straw man arguments like this one:

1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

its unbelievable ya'll want to continue that

I could go line by line AGAIN, but there's no point.  You have no interest in trying to understand the issue we are bringing up and how it's different.  I should have known better.

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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

Obama deported record numbers - true or false ?

Oh and to this...according to YOUR sources, this is abjectly false.  He was terrible on immigration and that's why you elected Trump.....because Obama wasn't doing enough.  So you tell me?  Was that all bull#### too or was he actually doing what you were asking for him to do?

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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

you didn't talk about Obama and all the ones his administration sent back ..... they were illegal, but not asylum seekers right ?

maybe, just maybe, that's what's happening here too, a continuation of the southern border issue and the left is using asylum to stir anger and hate ?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/07/10/guatemalan-national-pays-280-fine-for-negligent-driving-in-crash-that-killed-fbi-agent-fire-marshal.html

I guess he was asylum seeker ?

 

Did you even read the link you provided?

Quote

Garza Palacios was arrested by immigration officers for being unlawfully present in the U.S. after overstaying a work visa that expired in 2009

So he was here legally (he had a work visa), then he was here illegally (overstayed the work visa).  That link has LITERALLY NOTHING to do with the discussion at hand (Trump's NEW policy of separating ALL who try to enter the country, regardless of whether they broke any laws or not).

Seriously, can you make it any more obvious that you have no wish to actually discuss the topic and merely want to try to obfuscate and muddy the waters with your nonsense?

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3 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

 

Seriously, can you make it any more obvious that you have no wish to actually discuss the topic and merely want to try to obfuscate and muddy the waters with your nonsense?

That really sounds like a dare.

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1 hour ago, Bayhawks said:

So he was here legally (he had a work visa), then he was here illegally (overstayed the work visa).  That link has LITERALLY NOTHING to do with the discussion at hand (Trump's NEW policy of separating ALL who try to enter the country, regardless of whether they broke any laws or not).

Seriously, can you make it any more obvious that you have no wish to actually discuss the topic and merely want to try to obfuscate and muddy the waters with your nonsense?

maybe after the Visa ended he is wanting asylum ? who are you to judge ?

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2 hours ago, urbanhack said:

So Trump was lying and you fell for it when the big rallying cry to elect Trump was we needed tougher immigration and border security, but now you are saying we had it under Obama??

we had the same laws and processes and rules .... Obama didn't follow them (prosecuting) like Trump is

that's the difference

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maybe that was a poor link to the issue which is .... of all those Obama sent back from the USA, how many were asylum seekers ?

you mean to say that when Trump took office they all started coming her for asylum but not the 8 years before ?

c'mon

they're here illegally and most do not meet the criteria of asylum ...

"Asylum has three basic requirements. First, an asylum applicant must establish that he or she fears persecution in their home country.[3] Second, the applicant must prove that he or she would be persecuted on account of one of five protected grounds: race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group. Third, an applicant must establish that the government is either involved in the persecution, or unable to control the conduct of private actors."

these people are not persecuted, the Govt isn't involved etc

 

their home countries are hell holes - that's why they want to leave, it has nothing to do with anything other than that for the vast majoirty

 

now, can we please quit calling it something it isn't ?

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Fun testimonials!

Olivia Caceres (El Salvador)
Backstory: Caceres was traveling in a caravan with her 14-month-old (called “M.” in court documents) who became sick on the journey to the U.S. border. The father, “J.”, rushed ahead with the child, and the two were separated at the U.S. border crossing in San Ysidro, California, across from Tijuana.
Testimony: “I learned from other members of the caravan who crossed successfully…that immigration officers took M. from J. I felt as if someone had dumped a bucket of cold water on me… Finally, after 7 days of desperately searching for M., I was able to locate him in a shelter in Los Fresnos, Texas. [The child was taken in November 2017 and reunited with his mother – who was detained at the border but subsequently released in the United States in February 2018.]

I went to the Los Angeles airport, showed my identification, signed some documents and they returned M. to me. M. looked scared, he looked absent, he did not seem to capture that he was with me. He would only stare…. When I took off his clothes he was full of dirt and lice. It seemed like they had not bathed him the 85 days he was away from us…. M. is not the same since we were reunited. I thought that, because he is so young he would not be traumatized by this experience, but he does not separate from me. He cries when he does not see me.”


 

Edited by TobiasFunke

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Let's keep it going, because each of these stories deserves attention and should be a source of shame for every single decent human being in this country:

Angelica Rebeca Gonzalez-Garcia (Guatemala)
Backstory: The 31-year-old mother fled domestic abuse with her then seven-year-old daughter.
Testimony: “On May 10, 2018, the day after our arrest, Officers came into the room and told me that they intended to take my daughter away from me… Most devastating of all, the Officers said I would never see my daughter again. When the Officers told me this, I felt like collapsing and dying. I cannot express the pain and fear I felt at that point. My daughter was only seven years old and she was much too young to be taken from me.

“When I asked why, the Officers said that I had ‘endangered’ her by bringing her here… During this same conversation one of the officers asked me ‘In Guatemala do they celebrate mother’s day?’ When I answered yes he said, ‘Then Happy Mother’s Day,’ because the next Sunday was Mother’s day. I lowered my head so that my daughter would not see the tears forming in my eyes. That particular act of cruelty astonished me then as it does now. I could not understand why they hated me so much, or wanted to hurt me so much.”

Edited by TobiasFunke

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Doris Arriagga-Pineda (Unspecified)
Backstory: Fleeing domestic violence.
Testimony: “On May 20th, I was detained. I requested asylum and they took me to the ‘icebox’ (la hielera), where I spent one day with my daughter… who is 6 years of age. We slept on the floor there, with only the aluminum blanket… On May 22nd, they took me to the court, when I got back, they had taken her away… The officer kept saying that I wasn’t my daughter’s mother… What worries me the most about my daughter is the separation… It is difficult for her to eat. She always cries. The day I called, she couldn’t speak. My life is my daughter.”

Edited by TobiasFunke

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Gladys Monroy-Guerra de Tesucum (Guatemala)
Backstory: “I am afraid of returning to my country, because my cousin will kill me and my children. I caught him raping his step-daughter. He is a drug trafficker and he has killed more than 45 people. He told me, in writing with a note on my door, that he is going to dismember me. He has threatened my children as well. We had to flee….The police in my country cannot do anything to protect us.”
Testimony: “When I first spoke with ICE officers, they told us, ‘Why did you come from your country?’, ‘Don’t you know that we hate you people?’, ‘We don’t want you in our country.’

“My two children… fled with me and came in with me… They separated them from me, and they took me to court, where they condemned me as a criminal. No one asked me if I was afraid to return to my country or why I fled… There was no opportunity for me to say goodbye to my children. When I came back to the “dog kennel” (perrera), where we were being held, my boys weren’t there anymore… I didn’t know where they were…

“I am seeking refuge in the USA. We are being treated like criminals in chains and everything. I’m just seeking refuge.”

Edited by TobiasFunke

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23 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

we had the same laws and processes and rules .... Obama didn't follow them (prosecuting) like Trump is

that's the difference

no...it's not

and you have YET to give me the law requiring children be separated from their parents while the family is coming here for asylum.  patiently waiting though

Edited by The Commish

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Maricela Batres (El Salvador)
Backstory: “I had a store in El Salvador. Members of the gang MS-13 demanded money as ‘rent.’ I do not have it, and they have said that if I do not pay $300 a month they will kill my son and me.”
Testimony: “I entered the USA on May 20, 2018 with my son. We were placed in the ‘kennel,’ where we sleep on the ground with a blanket made of aluminum. The officers told us our children would be taken from us for the crime of crossing the border… The officers said that the children would not return. One said ‘It is the price to pay for crossing the border. We do this so that when you return to your countries you do not return, and so you tell your relatives not to come because we will take your children from you.’ I do not know where my son is. I have had no communication with him. The consulate gave me a paper in English with a telephone number. When I call it, no one answers.”

 

Sounds more like terrorism than deterrence to me, but :shrug:

 

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Nery Flores-Oliva (Unspecified)
Backstory: “I came to the United States with my 6-year-old son, afraid after they killed my
husband’s two brothers.”
Testimony: “I entered the United States on May 14, in Reynoso. I was picked up and taken to the ‘icebox,’ a cold room. They treated us badly. My son was with me. The following day the officer told me that they were going to take my son to shower. And they sent me somewhere else, and they never returned with my son. I felt deceived. I never saw him again… I only ask that I be reunited with my son. He is young. He needs me.”

 

Literally a Nazi tactic.

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Yolani Karina Padilla-Orellana (Honduras)
Backstory: “I am a single mother. I received death threats and was afraid they would take my son in Honduras. That is why I decided to come with my son to the United States.”
Testimony: “When we arrived to the United States on May 18, the officers said… when would we stop coming? [and] that it would be better if a bomb were set off in our countries…. From there, my son Jelsin and I were separated. I was not told where he was being taken. They only told me he would be a ward of the state…. On the first day in the ‘icebox,’ they took me out to have my photo taken. I did not expect to see my son but they also brought him out so we could take a photo together… But they did not allow me to talk to him or hug him… That is the last time I saw my son.

While I was in the icebox, I was able to talk to an officer and I told him that I was afraid of returning to Honduras for the reasons I have stated. He told me I was going to be deported without my son. He told me I would be able to ask for my son 45 days after arriving in Honduras. Upon hearing this, I knelt down crying. The officer only laughed.”

 

Donald Trump defends ICE at every turn.  Meanwhile this morning he pardoned two Bundy affiliates who endangered the lives of BLM enforcement personnel by deliberately setting a fire on federal land.  Don't let anyone tell you this is about law and order.  Trump could care less about federal employees and the jobs they're tasked to do, unless that job involves cruelty towards brown people.

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"Well, I have a solution. Tell people not to come to our country illegally. That's the solution. Don't come to our country illegally. Come like other people do. Come legally," Trump told reporters.

 

Pretty basic stuff here.

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3 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

"Well, I have a solution. Tell people not to come to our country illegally. That's the solution. Don't come to our country illegally. Come like other people do. Come legally," Trump told reporters.

 

Pretty basic stuff here.

Until you realize that (1) it is already incredibly difficult to come to our country legally and Trump and the GOP are working every day to make it even more difficult, and (2) "not coming to our country illegally" effectively means "stay in your country and be beaten, tortured, raped and murdered" for many people seeking asylum.

So Trump is actually saying "I have a solution. Tell people to stay in their country to be beaten, tortured, raped and murdered unless they can somehow beat impossible odds and gain legal entry to the United States despite my best efforts to deny that legal entry."

I agree, pretty basic stuff. But also incredibly cruel and IMO un-American.

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15 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

"Well, I have a solution. Tell people not to come to our country illegally. That's the solution. Don't come to our country illegally. Come like other people do. Come legally," Trump told reporters.

 

Pretty basic stuff here.

Is this your final solution?

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57 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

"Well, I have a solution. Tell people not to come to our country illegally. That's the solution. Don't come to our country illegally. Come like other people do. Come legally," Trump told reporters.

 

Pretty basic stuff here.

That didn’t matt r either in several instances.

Amd his administration has worked to limit legal immigration as well.

So his solution is terrible...as usual.

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Instead of asylum who don't these people just ask to work in Trumps hotels?  He hires them instead of Americans whenever he can.  He thinks they work harder and cause less trouble.

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2 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

maybe after the Visa ended he is wanting asylum ? who are you to judge ?

It’s been posted like a dozen times.  I provided a link explaining exactly what is involved in requesting asylum.  You have this ignorant belief that anyone can just shout “asylum” and that means they’ve requested asylum. That’s not how it works.  

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1 minute ago, Bayhawks said:

It’s been posted like a dozen times.  I provided a link explaining exactly what is involved in requesting asylum.  You have this ignorant belief that anyone can just shout “asylum” and that means they’ve requested asylum. That’s not how it works.  

I wonder if that is how Stealthycat declares bankruptcy too. 

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5 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

not difficult for it to be mis-reported no

YOU asked for the numbers and Commish provided the official numbers, but you just dismiss them as being possibly mis-reported.  Let's see you provide evidence backing up that claim.

5 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

it could all be 100% stopped by not coming here illegally or abandoning your kids at the border

Again, for the 100th time these are people seeking asylum, which is not akin to coming here illegally and there is a process to determine the merits of their request.  

5 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

its unbelievable ya'll want to continue that

8 years Obama did nothing to help stop it - will 4 or 8 years of Trump?  

You said upthread you supported Obama's immigration policy, but then also say he did nothing to stop illegal immigration

5 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

if I am a single parent of a 1 year old and I go 1,000 miles south, across the Mexico border, illegally and I get caught by Mexican immigration authorities ?   I damn sure know right now, ahead of time, they're separating me and my kid and I will likely be put in prison and might not ever see my kid again.

I would like the USA to treat people better than how Mexico treats people, but you're right about one thing.  The best way to dissuade people from immigrating to the USA is to treat them worse than MS13 and the drug cartels.

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2 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

maybe that was a poor link to the issue which is .... of all those Obama sent back from the USA, how many were asylum seekers ?

you mean to say that when Trump took office they all started coming her for asylum but not the 8 years before ?

c'mon

they're here illegally and most do not meet the criteria of asylum ...

"Asylum has three basic requirements. First, an asylum applicant must establish that he or she fears persecution in their home country.[3] Second, the applicant must prove that he or she would be persecuted on account of one of five protected grounds: race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group. Third, an applicant must establish that the government is either involved in the persecution, or unable to control the conduct of private actors."

these people are not persecuted, the Govt isn't involved etc

 

their home countries are hell holes - that's why they want to leave, it has nothing to do with anything other than that for the vast majoirty

 

now, can we please quit calling it something it isn't ?

Hey, guy; that quote shows what is involved in the GOVERNMENT GRANTING asylum.  Just because someone requests asylum, doesn’t mean the government has to find that they deserve it.

BUT, if someone follows ALL the US laws with regards to requesting asylum (which is the subject at hand, no matter how much you want to pretend it’s something else), they’ve committed no crime, can’t LEGALLY be jailed/imprisoned, and can’t LEGALLY have their kids taken from them.  Obama’s administration didn’t do this, while Trump’s does, as a part of their zero-tolerance policy.

Edited by Bayhawks

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5 hours ago, Bayhawks said:

3-Thank you for FINALLY answering the question.  I hope you are being disingenuous, because it says A LOT about you if you think a 1-year old should have to suffer for any faults/sins/crimes of his/her parent.

Except the parents aren't criminals.  

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2 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

maybe after the Visa ended he is wanting asylum ? who are you to judge ?

GTFO with this bull####

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1 hour ago, Weebs210 said:

"Well, I have a solution. Tell people not to come to our country illegally. That's the solution. Don't come to our country illegally. Come like other people do. Come legally," Trump told reporters.

 

Pretty basic stuff here.

For the 20th time, people who present themselves to immigration officials at ports of call and request asylum ARE NOT coming here illegally.

Please explain how our ignorant POtuS’ quote has anything to do with what is being discussed here?

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1 hour ago, TobiasFunke said:

Until you realize that (1) it is already incredibly difficult to come to our country legally and Trump and the GOP are working every day to make it even more difficult, and (2) "not coming to our country illegally" effectively means "stay in your country and be beaten, tortured, raped and murdered" for many people seeking asylum.

So Trump is actually saying "I have a solution. Tell people to stay in their country to be beaten, tortured, raped and murdered unless they can somehow beat impossible odds and gain legal entry to the United States despite my best efforts to deny that legal entry."

I agree, pretty basic stuff. But also incredibly cruel and IMO un-American.

And herein lies the problem.  There's a lot of people on the "right" who agree we should look at asylum cases.  However, what is the process for this and what are the limits on this?  It's also not a coincidence of the exponential growth of people making asylum claims at the border.  Our system is being gamed and we need to fix it so that we can try and help those who are legitimately in need of asylum.  We have a lot of situations (Syria, Libya, etc) all over the world where there are people being treated poorly and living in dangerous conditions.  However this has always been the case.  There may be more from certain areas today and less from others.  How many should we take and what is the process for deciding this? 

I don't know that we have a good plan.  You have people on the left saying that conservatives want to deny everyone and separate families.  You have people on the right saying the left wants totally free flowing borders and criminals and all can come in as they please.  The truth is that while those people may exist on the fringes, most of the people on either side don't have that extreme of a stance, or so I'd like to think.  But even if you're someone who has a tempered view on your side, the rhetoric today likely has even those people believing that the other side is full of hard liners and radicals.  That's what gets the news coverage these days.

 

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