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Mario Kart

What an embarrassment for our country. re: Immigration

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1 hour ago, TobiasFunke said:

Until you realize that (1) it is already incredibly difficult to come to our country legally and Trump and the GOP are working every day to make it even more difficult, and (2) "not coming to our country illegally" effectively means "stay in your country and be beaten, tortured, raped and murdered" for many people seeking asylum.

So Trump is actually saying "I have a solution. Tell people to stay in their country to be beaten, tortured, raped and murdered unless they can somehow beat impossible odds and gain legal entry to the United States despite my best efforts to deny that legal entry."

I agree, pretty basic stuff. But also incredibly cruel and IMO un-American.

And you didn't even mention that of all the options on how to deal with people crossing the border undocumented, Trump decided on an incredibly cruel, inhumane option. 

So you can add this sentence to what Trump is actually saying - "But if you still choose to come here to seek a better life, we are going to destroy your family."

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12 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

For the 20th time, people who present themselves to immigration officials at ports of call and request asylum ARE NOT coming here illegally.

Please explain how our ignorant POtuS’ quote has anything to do with what is being discussed here?

Using a loop hole is illegal in my book.

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2 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

maybe that was a poor link to the issue which is .... of all those Obama sent back from the USA, how many were asylum seekers ?

you mean to say that when Trump took office they all started coming her for asylum but not the 8 years before ?

c'mon

they're here illegally and most do not meet the criteria of asylum ...

"Asylum has three basic requirements. First, an asylum applicant must establish that he or she fears persecution in their home country.[3] Second, the applicant must prove that he or she would be persecuted on account of one of five protected grounds: race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group. Third, an applicant must establish that the government is either involved in the persecution, or unable to control the conduct of private actors."

these people are not persecuted, the Govt isn't involved etc

 

their home countries are hell holes - that's why they want to leave, it has nothing to do with anything other than that for the vast majoirty

 

now, can we please quit calling it something it isn't ?

Operation goalpost shift engaged!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the bold is the "issue" we are discussing it's just more proof you aren't paying a single bit of attention to what is being said.  It's not about being "sent back".  It's about when they come here seeking asylum, them being automatically separated from their kids while the process unfolds.  You've been told this a billion times already.  It's not about illegal immigrants coming here either.  Yes, I think America is better than what is being put on display at our borders today, but that isn't what this was about.  It's about the application of a policy that our "president" and his administration came up with on their own, that has never been a policy before and how abhorrent that policy unique to our "president" and his administration is.  

 

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2 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:
15 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

For the 20th time, people who present themselves to immigration officials at ports of call and request asylum ARE NOT coming here illegally.

Please explain how our ignorant POtuS’ quote has anything to do with what is being discussed here?

Using a loop hole is illegal in my book.

Then however you use the term loophole is completely different than anyone who's ever used it before.  Loopholes are ambiguities/inadequacies in the law or, sometimes, outright omissions from the law/rule to benefit a specific set of people.  They are not actually breaking the law.  As such, when they are discovered the courts usually get involved to clarify.  Then a precedent is set.  That happened here and the courts ruled the kids needed to be reunited with their parents.  That in Weebs World it's "illegal" means exactly nothing.

Pretty comical that this has to be explained to the alleged "law and order" crowd :lol: 

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19 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

And herein lies the problem.  There's a lot of people on the "right" who agree we should look at asylum cases.  However, what is the process for this and what are the limits on this?  It's also not a coincidence of the exponential growth of people making asylum claims at the border.  Our system is being gamed and we need to fix it so that we can try and help those who are legitimately in need of asylum.  We have a lot of situations (Syria, Libya, etc) all over the world where there are people being treated poorly and living in dangerous conditions.  However this has always been the case.  There may be more from certain areas today and less from others.  How many should we take and what is the process for deciding this? 

I don't know that we have a good plan.  You have people on the left saying that conservatives want to deny everyone and separate families.  You have people on the right saying the left wants totally free flowing borders and criminals and all can come in as they please.  The truth is that while those people may exist on the fringes, most of the people on either side don't have that extreme of a stance, or so I'd like to think.  But even if you're someone who has a tempered view on your side, the rhetoric today likely has even those people believing that the other side is full of hard liners and radicals.  That's what gets the news coverage these days.

 

What you say is true, but this particular thread is about a very specific type of embarrassment.  We may not have a great plan for immigration overall, but whatever we had for the last decade or two is clearly preferable to the historical awfulness of the last year and we need to acknowledge and strongly reject that IMO. If we can't all agree that torturing children by the thousands and not even bothering to keep records that would allow those children to be reunited with their parents is really really really bad, we should throw in the towel now. No reason to debate the nuances of immigration policy.

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The US has a set of laws dictating how one can apply for asylum in the US, and you think if a person follows those laws, he/she is using a “loophole?”

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

 

The US has a set of laws dictating how one can apply for asylum in the US, and you think if a person follows those laws, he/she is using a “loophole?”

 

 

good shtick no?

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6 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

 

The US has a set of laws dictating how one can apply for asylum in the US, and you think if a person follows those laws, he/she is using a “loophole?”

 

 

And also :lol: at the assumption that "apply for" equals "granted"

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On 7/9/2018 at 9:55 AM, Mario Kart said:

This is a one-year old we're talking about. An infant! To see the excuses above answered in regards to infants/toddlers in immigration court... does not compare at all.

So...did this one-year old just crawl here? 

If the parent has already been sent back, what’s the concern? Send the child back to his parent. 

 

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4 minutes ago, jerry jones said:

So...did this one-year old just crawl here? 

If the parent has already been sent back, what’s the concern? Send the child back to his parent. 

 

Well, apparently the one year old was carried here by his or her alleged parents (we don't know for sure since the DNA tests have only just begun being taken). Then was separated from them by ICE, who forgot to register which child was taken from whom (hence another need for DNA tests) and now the one year old has to appear in court without any way of giving him or her guidance.

Does that clarify the predicament?

Edited by msommer

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3 minutes ago, jerry jones said:

So...did this one-year old just crawl here? 

If the parent has already been sent back, what’s the concern? Send the child back to his parent. 

 

You have the address?  Because the Trump administration didn't bother to get them before they took the kids from their parents. They didn't tell the parents how to get their kids back either.  They treated toddlers with less care then a restaurant gives to your coat.

Starting to get the picture yet?  This is one of the worst things the US government has done in a long, long time. We've caused more harm to be sure, but not intentionally.  This is WWII internment camp-level cruelty.

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DNA tests. I wonder if the samples will be thrown away once the kids are identified or if those samples will be turned into a registry of some kind. Parents give their DNA to get their wrongfully taken kids back and then get put onto a criminal registry “just in case.” 

Is this going to happen?

Edited by Mario Kart

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1 hour ago, Shula-holic said:

And herein lies the problem.  There's a lot of people on the "right" who agree we should look at asylum cases. 

Based on what I've seen here, it's been a monumental struggle getting most Trump supporters to acknowledge asylum in the wake of this current crisis of kids being torn from their mothers.   

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13 minutes ago, Mario Kart said:

DNA tests. I wonder if the samples will be thrown away once the kids are identified or if those samples will be turned into a registry of some kind. Parents give their DNA to get their wrongfully taken kids back and then get put onto a criminal registry “just in case.” 

Is this going to happen?

No way the US government will throw away those DNA tests. They will be kept on a searchable database somewhere

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38 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

Based on what I've seen here, it's been a monumental struggle getting most Trump supporters to acknowledge asylum in the wake of this current crisis of kids being torn from their mothers.   

I think most will acknowledge there are some legitimate asylum seekers but also feel that many were using asylum claims as a way to prolong the process and believe the exponential growth in asylum claims at the border is evidence of that.  

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Just now, Shula-holic said:

I think most will acknowledge there are some legitimate asylum seekers but also feel that many were using asylum claims as a way to prolong the process and believe the exponential growth in asylum claims at the border is evidence of that.  

I think it's impossible to know everyone's story.   Our country has had a role in the economic downturn, and subsequent horrible conditions in some of those countries that they are fleeing.  We should probably keep this in mind.

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2 hours ago, Weebs210 said:

Using a loop hole is illegal in my book.

Good thing your book holds zero legal status.

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Just now, urbanhack said:

I think it's impossible to know everyone's story.   Our country has had a role in the economic downturn, and subsequent horrible conditions in some of those countries that they are fleeing.  We should probably keep this in mind.

Perhaps, although I'm not sure which specific action you are referring to.  But making that statement, just as with our current immigration mess, we need some standard way of assessing and evaluating people because we have finite resources and thereby a finite number of people we should accept.  Especially if it's essentially economic asylum they are seeking and not some threat of harm.

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15 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

Perhaps, although I'm not sure which specific action you are referring to.  But making that statement, just as with our current immigration mess, we need some standard way of assessing and evaluating people because we have finite resources and thereby a finite number of people we should accept.  Especially if it's essentially economic asylum they are seeking and not some threat of harm.

That will come out in the investigation of their claim and then their request is denied and they get sent back. 

As for the resources, that is a matter of national priority. Perhaps more for the screening and less for tax breaks would be a solution, who's to say?

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19 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

I think most will acknowledge there are some legitimate asylum seekers but also feel that many were using asylum claims as a way to prolong the process and believe the exponential growth in asylum claims at the border is evidence of that.  

This is the key word.  Many feel that way, but there is no evidence to support it.

An increase in asylum seekers could be attributed to a variety of causes, but to automatically assume they are actors seems :tinfoilhat:.  The most logical explanation for me is that there has been an increase in atrocities being committed in other countries that is causing people to flee their countries.  I'm sure there are some people with illegitimate claims seeking asylum, but that's why we have a system in place to vet them.

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19 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

Perhaps, although I'm not sure which specific action you are referring to.  But making that statement, just as with our current immigration mess, we need some standard way of assessing and evaluating people because we have finite resources and thereby a finite number of people we should accept.  Especially if it's essentially economic asylum they are seeking and not some threat of harm.

If it's a matter of resources then why are we detaining people at for-profit detention centers with no timetable for release/hearings?  Seems like it would be more cost effective to just deport them.

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5 minutes ago, Dickies said:

This is the key word.  Many feel that way, but there is no evidence to support it.

An increase in asylum seekers could be attributed to a variety of causes, but to automatically assume they are actors seems :tinfoilhat:.  The most logical explanation for me is that there has been an increase in atrocities being committed in other countries that is causing people to flee their countries.  I'm sure there are some people with illegitimate claims seeking asylum, but that's why we have a system in place to vet them.

A real issue is economic immigration - which always trends up when the economy of a part of the world seemingly is improving and another not (see Europe and Africa, current)

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6 minutes ago, Dickies said:

This is the key word.  Many feel that way, but there is no evidence to support it.

An increase in asylum seekers could be attributed to a variety of causes, but to automatically assume they are actors seems :tinfoilhat:.  The most logical explanation for me is that there has been an increase in atrocities being committed in other countries that is causing people to flee their countries.  I'm sure there are some people with illegitimate claims seeking asylum, but that's why we have a system in place to vet them.

The numbers went from just over 5,000 in 2007 to almost 92,000 in 2016.  Like you said, I can't say exactly how many fell into legitimate/illegitimate or economic driven, but the numbers are greater than 18x.  That factor of growth tells us all something has significantly changed.  Short of a civil war in a neighboring country it seems implausible to me that claims would increase by a factor of greater than 18 without significant misuse of the system.  That's assuming that we had no real issue statistically in the 5,000 claims in the base year.  A doubling, or even tripling, over that course of time would be troubling but perhaps explainable due to hardships, violence from gangs, etc.  18x there should be an obvious issue unless it's rampant abuse.  

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16 minutes ago, Dickies said:

If it's a matter of resources then why are we detaining people at for-profit detention centers with no timetable for release/hearings?  Seems like it would be more cost effective to just deport them.

I'm not disagreeing with that.  I'm all for a better way to use our resources and treat people better as well.

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13 minutes ago, msommer said:

A real issue is economic immigration - which always trends up when the economy of a part of the world seemingly is improving and another not (see Europe and Africa, current)

Bingo, when you have an 18x increase in asylum cases from 2008 to 2016, something massive has changed.  It's not a civil war, it's the American economy.  2008 was about the pit of the recession.  That's not to say there aren't claims in there for asylum due to violence, but it appears based on the math that most of these claims are economic driven.

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2 hours ago, Shula-holic said:

I think most will acknowledge there are some legitimate asylum seekers but also feel that many were using asylum claims as a way to prolong the process and believe the exponential growth in asylum claims at the border is evidence of that.  

I don't know about "most" especially among Trump supporters.  You see in this very thread the lengths one will go to in order to avoid the reality and intentionally lump very different things together as if they are the same.  People are free to "believe" what they want.  Absent the events/outcomes to support it, I don't put much stock in said belief.  The problem, of course, is the asylum rules aren't really all that different than they have been, so if it were seen as a way to "prolong the process" as you suggest, you have to explain why it's just now happening at an "exponential" level (if that's even true....I have no idea if it is or not).  

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10 hours ago, Shula-holic said:

Bingo, when you have an 18x increase in asylum cases from 2008 to 2016, something massive has changed.  It's not a civil war, it's the American economy.  2008 was about the pit of the recession.  That's not to say there aren't claims in there for asylum due to violence, but it appears based on the math that most of these claims are economic driven.

The proper response is to assign sufficient resources to sort that out, not to suspend the usual jurisprudence/habeas corpus/human rights

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On 7/10/2018 at 2:05 PM, Bayhawks said:

It’s been posted like a dozen times.  I provided a link explaining exactly what is involved in requesting asylum.  You have this ignorant belief that anyone can just shout “asylum” and that means they’ve requested asylum. That’s not how it works.  

actually I have posted a link multiple times on what asylum is

Democrats would have you believe everyone coming across illegally is asylum ..... they're not, that's a lie

 

legal Immigration - US allows over a million a year ............. is it super easy to become a US citizen ? No, it isn't and in today's world is shouldn't be. To shortcut this, people just come across illegally.

 

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On 7/10/2018 at 0:27 PM, The Commish said:

and you have YET to give me the law requiring children be separated from their parents while the family is coming here for asylum.  patiently waiting though

do you think kids go to jail with their parents ?

as its been proven already, majority of these illegals are not here for asylum, they're here because the countries they come from have major issues - that's not asylum

many kids are abandoned at our border too - and that requires processes and procedures, all that have been in place for a decade now

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On 7/10/2018 at 0:43 PM, TobiasFunke said:

Until you realize that (1) it is already incredibly difficult to come to our country legally and Trump and the GOP are working every day to make it even more difficult, and (2) "not coming to our country illegally" effectively means "stay in your country and be beaten, tortured, raped and murdered" for many people seeking asylum.

So Trump is actually saying "I have a solution. Tell people to stay in their country to be beaten, tortured, raped and murdered unless they can somehow beat impossible odds and gain legal entry to the United States despite my best efforts to deny that legal entry."

I agree, pretty basic stuff. But also incredibly cruel and IMO un-American.

1 million legally immigrated people each year to the United States - its not "easy" to become a US citizen and in today's world it shouldn't be.

Trump isn't making it more difficult to get here legally - he IS making it more difficult to be illegal just like Clinton and Bush and Obama promised


What you just typed is somewhat true - those countries have issues. 2/3 of the world is in severe poverty, that's 2 billion people. Do you want them all to come here ? What number is acceptable to you? Unregulated immigration and open borders .... no country does that, for damn good reasons.

 

Trump didn't say that - ever. They're NOT here legally, that's the core problem, always has been

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On 7/10/2018 at 2:08 PM, Dickies said:

Again, for the 100th time these are people seeking asylum, which is not akin to coming here illegally and there is a process to determine the merits of their request.  

they absolutely are not

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On 7/10/2018 at 2:08 PM, Dickies said:

You said upthread you supported Obama's immigration policy, but then also say he did nothing to stop illegal immigration

I said that the immigration policies are intact from Obama years, same process, same procedures .... Obama just elected to play the send to Mexico and they come right back game more often than prosecuting. Tens of thousands of kids every year went through the same immigration court processes that they're going through now.

Obama failed to stop illegals from coming to the US. Massive problem each year for 15-20 years and got worse and worse. That's NOT solving, that's avoiding .... Clinton did it, Bush's did, Obama did but dang they all promised didn't they ?

https://gop.com/flashback-democrats-talked-tough-on-immigration-rsr/

 

and to refresh ya'll on what is happening ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae23MjN9GOU

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On 7/10/2018 at 2:29 PM, The Commish said:

It's about when they come here seeking asylum, them being automatically separated from their kids while the process unfolds.

and how do you know they're really asylum seekers ?

again, people coming from countries that have major issues are NOT asylum seekers .... they're here because their home country sucks, and that aint asylum

 

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On 7/10/2018 at 4:12 PM, TobiasFunke said:

You have the address?  Because the Trump administration didn't bother to get them before they took the kids from their parents. They didn't tell the parents how to get their kids back either.  They treated toddlers with less care then a restaurant gives to your coat.

Starting to get the picture yet?  This is one of the worst things the US government has done in a long, long time. We've caused more harm to be sure, but not intentionally.  This is WWII internment camp-level cruelty.

all could have been avoided had the parents chose not to come to the United States illegally

I guess what the left really wants is children in jail houses with their parents and all the others who've broken US laws, all in jail houses

talk about cruel and mean ... and against US laws

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11 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

actually I have posted a link multiple times on what asylum is

Democrats would have you believe everyone coming across illegally is asylum ..... they're not, that's a lie

 

legal Immigration - US allows over a million a year ............. is it super easy to become a US citizen ? No, it isn't and in today's world is shouldn't be. To shortcut this, people just come across illegally.

 

As to the bolded, no you haven't. You've posted a link to what I assume is the Wikipedia explanation of what is required to beg granted asylum.  I have to assume its from wiki, because you didn't actually post the link, just copied and pasted

As to the underlined, that's ironic.  YOU are continuing to conflate asylum and people who've illegally entered the US, which isn't the issue being discussed (as has been pointed out to you multiple times).  YOU are the one trying to get people to believe that everyone who requests asylum has come here illegally, when in fact, the issue is (AGAIN) that Trump's zero-tolerance policy is separating families who have broken no laws, because they followed all US laws about presenting themselves to US immigration officers at ports-of-call and requested asylum.

 

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15 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

do you think kids go to jail with their parents ?

as its been proven already, majority of these illegals are not here for asylum, they're here because the countries they come from have major issues - that's not asylum

many kids are abandoned at our border too - and that requires processes and procedures, all that have been in place for a decade now

I am talking about asylum seekers and how they are now being treated differently.  You can either engage in that conversation or continue to try to shift it somewhere else, but you won't get another response from me if you choose to ignore specifically what I am talking about.

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6 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

and how do you know they're really asylum seekers ?

again, people coming from countries that have major issues are NOT asylum seekers .... they're here because their home country sucks, and that aint asylum

 

Please educate yourself

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9 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

and how do you know they're really asylum seekers ?

again, people coming from countries that have major issues are NOT asylum seekers .... they're here because their home country sucks, and that aint asylum

 

A person who is seeking asylum DOES NOT mean he/she has to be granted asylum.

People that come here, present themselves to US immigration at ports-of-call, and request asylum ARE asylum seekers (no matter how many times you repeat the lie that they are not).

If they come here because "their home county sucks," and follow all US legal requirements to request asylum, and the US refuses them asylum because they are only here because "their home county sucks," they still were asylum seekers.

If you apply for a job, and go to the interview, and are not hired because you're not qualified, you were still a job applicant. 

This isn't hard, for someone who can think logically.

Edited by Bayhawks
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11 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

YOU are the one trying to get people to believe that everyone who requests asylum has come here illegally, when in fact, the issue is (AGAIN) that Trump's zero-tolerance policy is separating families who have broken no laws, because they followed all US laws about presenting themselves to US immigration officers at ports-of-call and requested asylum.

how do you know they're asylum seekers? saying it and actually BEING is different

your'e saying what the liberal left has said in the news, you have no more an idea who is and isn't asylum seekers than I do

do you ?

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14 minutes ago, The Commish said:

I am talking about asylum seekers and how they are now being treated differently.  You can either engage in that conversation or continue to try to shift it somewhere else, but you won't get another response from me if you choose to ignore specifically what I am talking about.

good gawd

 

lets use a number .... 50,000, 100,000, 1,000,000 ........... pick a number that came to the southern US border in 2017 .......... tell me how many were asylum seekers

do you know? a guess ?

80% ? 20% ??   1% ?

and of all them saying they were seeking asylum, how many were liars? how many were just here because their home country has issues ?

 

 

you don't know, and I don't know ......... its our immigration authorities that have to sort it all through the same process and procedures in place during Obama years. yes, Trump is cracking down, I wish Obama would have instead of just using taxpayer dollars and plane tickets but he didn't.

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

how do you know they're asylum seekers? saying it and actually BEING is different

your'e saying what the liberal left has said in the news, you have no more an idea who is and isn't asylum seekers than I do

do you ?

Because they followed US laws as to what they needed to do to request asylum, thereby making them asylum seekers.  When you do that, saying it and actually BEING it are not different.

When a person LEGALLY requests asylum, the US government makes records of it. You've been provided with the link upthread, you just chose to ignore it so you could continually parrot your conservative right talking points "we don't know if they really are/aren't asylum seekers." 

The reason you don't know, is because you refuse to see what has been linked for you.

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3 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

good gawd

 

lets use a number .... 50,000, 100,000, 1,000,000 ........... pick a number that came to the southern US border in 2017 .......... tell me how many were asylum seekers

do you know? a guess ?

80% ? 20% ??   1% ?

and of all them saying they were seeking asylum, how many were liars? how many were just here because their home country has issues ?

 

 

you don't know, and I don't know ......... its our immigration authorities that have to sort it all through the same process and procedures in place during Obama years. yes, Trump is cracking down, I wish Obama would have instead of just using taxpayer dollars and plane tickets but he didn't.

In 2016, 115,399 affirmative asylum applications were filed with U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (i.e.-LEGALLY applied to seek asylum in the US).  25,945 people were granted asylum by the US government in 2016.

To be clear, that means 115,399 people were asylum seekers, AS DEFINED BY US LAW, in 2016, even though only 25,945 people were granted asylum.  Stealthycat, you seem to think that only the 25,945 were asylum seekers.  You'd be wrong in thinking that.

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Bayhawks I think I'm understand how you're seeing this better

How do you decide who's asylum and who isn't? Do you see the numbers below and the massive, MASSIVE problems that come with literally tens of thousands at the border every day ? Who'd lying, who's a criminal, who's a kid abandoned, who's got kids that are being coyote'd or trafficked?  Its a humanitarian nightmare, its a financial burden in the tens of billions if not hundreds of billions of dollars.

I'm with Trump, stop this southern border problem and that means, stop the massive flow of people. Its actually Mexico that needs to stop it too - they allow all these people to come up, subjecting them all to the issues that happen on a 2,000 mile journey.

I see this as a problem solved by people NOT coming here illegally and understand most of them are - the numbers support what I'm saying. 25,945 granted asylum in 2016 by your numbers, and we know there were hundreds of thousands that came across illegally that had nothing to do with asylum.

Sorting out the liars .... its not easy and the core problem is all of them coming here illegally.

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

In 2016, 115,399 affirmative asylum applications were filed with U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (i.e.-LEGALLY applied to seek asylum in the US).  25,945 people were granted asylum by the US government in 2016.

To be clear, that means 115,399 people were asylum seekers, AS DEFINED BY US LAW, in 2016, even though only 25,945 people were granted asylum.  Stealthycat, you seem to think that only the 25,945 were asylum seekers.  You'd be wrong in thinking that.

lets look at 2016

only 22% were given asylum, the other 78% were liars

but there wasn't only 115,399 coming to the US for asylum - in fact, in 2016 ICE removed a total of 240,255 aliens in FY

https://www.ice.gov/removal-statistics/2016
 

that's on top your numbers - but the numbers are even worse than that

Quote

 

 

ICE conducted 240,255 removals.

ICE conducted 65,332 removals of individuals apprehended by ICE officers (i.e., interior removals) (Figure 5).

60,318 (92 percent) of all interior removals were previously convicted of a crime.

ICE conducted 174,923 removals of individuals apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.[3]

58 percent of all ICE removals, or 138,669, were previously convicted of a crime.

ICE conducted 60,318 interior criminal removals.

ICE removed 78,351 criminals apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.

99.3 percent of all ICE FY 2016 removals, or 238,466, met one or more of ICE’s stated civil immigration enforcement priorities.[4]

Of the 101,586 aliens removed who had no criminal conviction, 95 percent, or 96,572, were apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.[5]

The leading countries of origin for removals were Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador.

2,057 aliens removed by ICE were classified as suspected or confirmed gang members.

 

 

https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-enter-the-US-illegally-per-year

 

Less than 1 million foreign persons are estimated to have entered the USA without inspection in 2016, so have no documentation or authorization to be here

The undocumented alien count seems static at 11 million, although a net add of 3 million a year this is offset as some others get deported or leave voluntarily or are able to adjust to an authorized status for presence in the USA. Just over 1.5 million are those that were aged under 18 when they entered the USA lawfully or without inspection but overstayed a visa and were brought in by a parent or related adult.

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38 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

Bayhawks I think I'm understand how you're seeing this better

How do you decide who's asylum and who isn't? Do you see the numbers below and the massive, MASSIVE problems that come with literally tens of thousands at the border every day ? Who'd lying, who's a criminal, who's a kid abandoned, who's got kids that are being coyote'd or trafficked?  Its a humanitarian nightmare, its a financial burden in the tens of billions if not hundreds of billions of dollars.

I'm with Trump, stop this southern border problem and that means, stop the massive flow of people. Its actually Mexico that needs to stop it too - they allow all these people to come up, subjecting them all to the issues that happen on a 2,000 mile journey.

I see this as a problem solved by people NOT coming here illegally and understand most of them are - the numbers support what I'm saying. 25,945 granted asylum in 2016 by your numbers, and we know there were hundreds of thousands that came across illegally that had nothing to do with asylum.

Sorting out the liars .... its not easy and the core problem is all of them coming here illegally.

 

 

 

lets look at 2016

only 22% were given asylum, the other 78% were liars

but there wasn't only 115,399 coming to the US for asylum - in fact, in 2016 ICE removed a total of 240,255 aliens in FY

https://www.ice.gov/removal-statistics/2016
 

that's on top your numbers - but the numbers are even worse than that

 

https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-enter-the-US-illegally-per-year

 

Less than 1 million foreign persons are estimated to have entered the USA without inspection in 2016, so have no documentation or authorization to be here

The undocumented alien count seems static at 11 million, although a net add of 3 million a year this is offset as some others get deported or leave voluntarily or are able to adjust to an authorized status for presence in the USA. Just over 1.5 million are those that were aged under 18 when they entered the USA lawfully or without inspection but overstayed a visa and were brought in by a parent or related adult.

You’re doing the same thing you’ve been doing throughout the last several pages: trying to muddy the waters with half-truths, irrelevant information, and flat-out lies.

Theres a cap on how many asylums applications the US grants each year, so just because 78% of the applicants were denied, doesn’t mean they lied when they said they needed asylum.

The number of people ICE deported, or the number of illegal aliens who were charged with crimes have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. People who’ve requested asylum, IN ACCORDANCE WITH US LAW, are not here illegally, so what does it matter if A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GROUP OF PEOPLE were arrested or deported.

Again, the point is that Trumps zero-tolerance policy is taking people who have broken no laws and stealing their children from them.

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40 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

I see this as a problem solved by people NOT coming here illegally and understand most of them are - the numbers support what I'm saying. 25,945 granted asylum in 2016 by your numbers, and we know there were hundreds of thousands that came across illegally that had nothing to do with asylum.

 

Gonna break by own rule here and mention one thing here because even some reasonable conservatives seem unable or unwilling to grasp it:  this will never ever happen.  These people are fleeing terror and violence and poverty that hopefully none of us can possibly fathom.  They will not stop running from that terror and violence and poverty in an effort to provide a better life for themselves and particularly their families, ever.  Ever ever ever. If you or I were ever in their position I would hope we'd have the courage and fortitude to do exactly what they're doing. You can't stop people from trying to come to the United States any more than you can stop a broke, starving person from trying to steal a loaf of bread for their family. The sooner everyone understands that, the sooner we can work on real solutions that don't involve unimaginable cruelty towards small children.

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2 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

they absolutely are not

If they come to our border and turn themselves over to us saying they are seeking asylum, then they absolutely are.  That has nothing to do with whether or not there are merits for granting them asylum.  Overstaying a work visa can never be transitioned into seeking asylum

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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

and how do you know they're really asylum seekers ?

again, people coming from countries that have major issues are NOT asylum seekers .... they're here because their home country sucks, and that aint asylum

 

Then we will determine that their claim is not legitimate and they will be rejected.

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2 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

all could have been avoided had the parents chose not to come to the United States illegally

I guess what the left really wants is children in jail houses with their parents and all the others who've broken US laws, all in jail houses

talk about cruel and mean ... and against US laws

WTF are you even talking about? 

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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

and of all them saying they were seeking asylum, how many were liars? how many were just here because their home country has issues ?

 

 

you don't know, and I don't know ......... 

It's everyone else who is saying they don't know how many are "liars".  YOU are saying that they are all "liars."

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1 hour ago, Bayhawks said:

Theres a cap on how many asylums applications the US grants each year, so just because 78% of the applicants were denied, doesn’t mean they lied when they said they needed asylum.

The number of people ICE deported, or the number of illegal aliens who were charged with crimes have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. People who’ve requested asylum, IN ACCORDANCE WITH US LAW, are not here illegally, so what does it matter if A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GROUP OF PEOPLE were arrested or deported.

Again, the point is that Trumps zero-tolerance policy is taking people who have broken no laws and stealing their children from them.

lol   wow, talk about half truths

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/how-many-people-can-get-asylum.html

The U.S. immigration laws do not set a limit on the number of people who can be awarded asylum in the United States each year. The number of asylum grants varies, depending on how many people apply (either of their own volition or as a defense to deportation), and how many of them are successful with their asylum claim.

Stealing?  Or same immigration process and procedures Obama had in place? Yeah .... not stealing. In fact, nothing like that at all

 

The "group" of people is enormous, and not near as many want asylum as they just want to get across the border illegally

 

That you cannot separate that I understand now.

 

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