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Mario Kart

What an embarrassment for our country. re: Immigration

224 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, The Commish said:

I am talking about asylum seekers and how they are now being treated differently.  You can either engage in that conversation or continue to try to shift it somewhere else, but you won't get another response from me if you choose to ignore specifically what I am talking about.

boy liberals really have ya'll hooked on this asylum thing

I wish GOP would have used that in 2010 against Obama and his immigration policies and got people riled up and angry and hateful mad. Maybe it'd have helped get that border problem fixed

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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

How do you decide who's asylum and who isn't? 

You either don't read what has been posted or have severe reading comprehension issues.  Seeking asylum and being granted asylum are two separate things.  Luckily we have a process that does just that.

1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

Its a humanitarian nightmare, its a financial burden in the tens of billions if not hundreds of billions of dollars.

You're correct that separating kids from their parents who came here legally is a humanitarian crisis, but you're wrong about the financial burden of immigrants.  It has been shown that illegal immigrants are an overwhelming net positive economically.  (I am going to assume that legal immigrants are as well)

1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

I'm with Trump, stop this southern border problem and that means, stop the massive flow of people.

You can't just stop people from coming here.  They are seeking a better life, the American Dream.

1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

I see this as a problem solved by people NOT coming here illegally and understand most of them are - the numbers support what I'm saying. 25,945 granted asylum in 2016 by your numbers, and we know there were hundreds of thousands that came across illegally that had nothing to do with asylum.

Sorting out the liars .... its not easy and the core problem is all of them coming here illegally.

People not coming here illegally is not a solution to the problem.  You don't get to just snap your fingers and instantly stop the flow of people coming here.  The rest of this statement makes no sense.  On one hand you agree that the hundreds of thousands that came across the border illegally had nothing to do with asylum, but then say that the core problem with our system for legal immigration via asylum is that people are coming here illegally through the asylum process.  

1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

but there wasn't only 115,399 coming to the US for asylum - in fact, in 2016 ICE removed a total of 240,255 aliens in FY

Again, these are two completely separate things that have absolutely nothing to do with each other

Edited by Dickies

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38 minutes ago, Dickies said:

If they come to our border and turn themselves over to us saying they are seeking asylum, then they absolutely are.  That has nothing to do with whether or not there are merits for granting them asylum.  Overstaying a work visa can never be transitioned into seeking asylum

they can say they are - but if they are not being persecuted but rather they just want to come to the US because its a better country than they're from, that's not asylum

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1 minute ago, Dickies said:

Luckily we have a process that does just that.

 

2 minutes ago, Dickies said:

You can't just stop people from coming here.  They are seeking a better life, the American Dream.

 

 

thank goodness you see there is a process - same as Obama had. Difference is, there is a cracking down of who's lying and who isn't IMO.  The United State like every country monitors and controls immigration and refugees ............ they have to. A country without borders, without citizens and without laws that are obeyed and followed isn't a country at all

 

 

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

they can say they are - but if they are not being persecuted but rather they just want to come to the US because its a better country than they're from, that's not asylum

AGAIN you are confusing seeking asylum with being granted asylum

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2 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

good gawd

 

lets use a number .... 50,000, 100,000, 1,000,000 ........... pick a number that came to the southern US border in 2017 .......... tell me how many were asylum seekers

do you know? a guess ?

80% ? 20% ??   1% ?

and of all them saying they were seeking asylum, how many were liars? how many were just here because their home country has issues ?

 

 

you don't know, and I don't know ......... its our immigration authorities that have to sort it all through the same process and procedures in place during Obama years. yes, Trump is cracking down, I wish Obama would have instead of just using taxpayer dollars and plane tickets but he didn't.

none of this matters :shrug: 

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

thank goodness you see there is a process - same as Obama had. Difference is, there is a cracking down of who's lying and who isn't IMO.  The United State like every country monitors and controls immigration and refugees ............ they have to. A country without borders, without citizens and without laws that are obeyed and followed isn't a country at all

The separation of children from their parents was not the policy Obama had.  How do you figure we are cracking down on who is lying?

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8 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:
2 hours ago, The Commish said:

I am talking about asylum seekers and how they are now being treated differently.  You can either engage in that conversation or continue to try to shift it somewhere else, but you won't get another response from me if you choose to ignore specifically what I am talking about.

boy liberals really have ya'll hooked on this asylum thing

I wish GOP would have used that in 2010 against Obama and his immigration policies and got people riled up and angry and hateful mad. Maybe it'd have helped get that border problem fixed

:confused:  Asylum isn't a "liberal" or "conservative" thing...it just is :shrug: 

Now, the treatment of those people has been vastly different and as I said before, if you'd like to discuss how our current "president" is treating them vs any of our other presidents in history, I'd be happy to, but it's not going to fit well into your preconstructed talking points.

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I think ya'll are so wrapped up in this you cannot see all the problems. I think the left has your feelings so entwined with words and phrases of children and cages and asylum its impossible to logically and reasonably discuss all the border and immigration issues.

In that, the left has been brilliant in how they're played this. 8 years Obama deported at the cost of hundreds of millions of dollars to taxpayers people coming across the southern border. Literally hundreds of thousands of kids had to go through the immigration system of processes and procedures because they were abandoned at the border, enormous costs involved there. Border security and authorities have to try and figure out who's sex trafficking, who's drug trafficking, who's really who, who are gang members, which have criminal records, who REALLY should be allowed into the US and immigrate or seek asylum.

 

The core solution is stop illegal entry into the United States. I know ya'll have been told people are legitimately coming to the US seeking asylum and in your minds at the border they're crucified and Trump steals all the children .......... the reality is the border crisis is literally flooding the border flooded with people just running from their homelands that are trashed and many of those people have criminal records and they're wanting to by pass the legal immigration system.

The children is another story, because they're abandoned, sold, muled out and abused over that 2,000 miles or more journey that's sick and wrong. The US immigration system is trying to handle that best they can. Separating parents who put their kids through that journey knows the consequences.

 

I'm out - I tried to come back to this thread and make time and discuss rationally and reasonable and all but I think ya'll have your feelings too twisted by the media to do that.

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

I think ya'll are so wrapped up in this you cannot see all the problems.

We see all the problems just fine.  We are talking about a specific one that Trump and his administration created all on their own that is pretty brutal.  

1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

I'm out - I tried to come back to this thread and make time and discuss rationally and reasonable and all but I think ya'll have your feelings too twisted by the media to do that.

Projection 101

------------------------------------------------------------

I have made my comments and opinions on illegal immigration as a whole crystal clear in these threads.  There are many different problems that need to be solved/addressed and there are many different solutions required.  What's been discussed here, or attempted to be discussed, is the new issue created by this administration, how disgusting it is and how transparently ignorant and lacking in empathy it is.

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14 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

I think ya'll are so wrapped up in this you cannot see all the problems. I think the left has your feelings so entwined with words and phrases of children and cages and asylum its impossible to logically and reasonably discuss all the border and immigration issues.

In that, the left has been brilliant in how they're played this. 8 years Obama deported at the cost of hundreds of millions of dollars to taxpayers people coming across the southern border. Literally hundreds of thousands of kids had to go through the immigration system of processes and procedures because they were abandoned at the border, enormous costs involved there. Border security and authorities have to try and figure out who's sex trafficking, who's drug trafficking, who's really who, who are gang members, which have criminal records, who REALLY should be allowed into the US and immigrate or seek asylum.

Why is the cost of hundreds of millions seemingly the biggest concern when Trump's solution is a $20B wall that will likely only marginally limit illegal immigration from its current state?

The core solution is stop illegal entry into the United States. I know ya'll have been told people are legitimately coming to the US seeking asylum and in your minds at the border they're crucified and Trump steals all the children .......... the reality is the border crisis is literally flooding the border flooded with people just running from their homelands that are trashed and many of those people have criminal records and they're wanting to by pass the legal immigration system.

There are people coming here legitimately, but obviously not everyone is.  Trump may not be crucifying them (yay hyperbole!) but he is separating the children from their parents.  Try having an ounce of empathy since you acknowledge what these people are trying to escape.  You just happened to randomly win the birthplace lottery.

The children is another story, because they're abandoned, sold, muled out and abused over that 2,000 miles or more journey that's sick and wrong. The US immigration system is trying to handle that best they can. Separating parents who put their kids through that journey knows the consequences.

Again, you severely lack empathy.  Thousands of children were separated before the educated masses in the US even learned about this happening, how on earth are these people fleeing their homelands supposed to know their kids are going to be seized from them and not returned?

I'm out - I tried to come back to this thread and make time and discuss rationally and reasonable and all but I think ya'll have your feelings too twisted by the media to do that.

YOU are the one spewing conservative media talking points

 

Edited by Dickies

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1 hour ago, Dickies said:

It has been shown that illegal immigrants are an overwhelming net positive economically.  (I am going to assume that legal immigrants are as well)

It has been shown that immigrants are a net positive to the federal budget and a net negative to state budgets.

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57 minutes ago, The Commish said:

a specific one that Trump and his administration created

 

same processes, same procedures as Obama's administration had at its disposal .... same deportations, same sending of kids to holding centers, same immigration courts, same all of that

yes, Trump has cracked down where Obama ignored that is true

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

 

same processes, same procedures as Obama's administration had at its disposal .... same deportations, same sending of kids to holding centers, same immigration courts, same all of that

yes, Trump has cracked down where Obama ignored that is true

 

 

 "well Obama COULD have separated kids from their parents while the family was seeking asylum"?  I guess that's a shift, baby step, towards the truth.  Given what I've been provided, I'll take it.  At least you've backed off "That's the law, he has no choice" and "this policy is the same policy all presidents before him had".

But you've created yourself another problem.  If you acknowledge that Obama had the option and chose not to use it for obvious reasons, you're left with this option being solely used as a means to intimidate people seeking asylum (which isn't against the law in any form, shape or fashion) because asylum cases were processed just fine before without having to use this approach.  Good work today!  I feel like we had a breakthrough :thumbup: 

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31 minutes ago, Sand said:

It has been shown that immigrants are a net positive to the federal budget and a net negative to state budgets.

Just to be specific - you mean undocumented (or illegal, if you prefer) immigrants, right? Not all immigrants?

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43 minutes ago, Sand said:

It has been shown that immigrants are a net positive to the federal budget and a net negative to state budgets.

In Florida, that's false. Documented or not, immigrants in Florida have helped the state's bottom line.

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So this new "rule" about people seeking asylum on the grounds of gang and/or domestic violence being automatically rejected....is this an EO or just "guidance"?  Quite frankly, this is more disgusting to me than the stuff from before....can't really make up this sort of dooshbagery.  

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3 hours ago, whoknew said:

Just to be specific - you mean undocumented (or illegal, if you prefer) immigrants, right? Not all immigrants?

From what I remember the article (which I can't find offhand) didn't specify.  

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2 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Illegal immigrants hurt african american employment rate as well

I love this new right narrative.  When the illegal immigrants are gone the African Americans can take the #### jobs they were doing .

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34 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Illegal immigrants hurt african american employment rate as well

how?

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The 6 year old girl who was crying in the audio released by Pro Publica has been reunited with her mother. link

If anyone asks, this is why we get angry and throw fits and raise hell about Trump and his worst policies and tendencies.

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17 hours ago, Don't Noonan said:

Illegal immigrants hurt african american employment rate as well

they do? even middle and upper class african americans?   please unpack.

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27 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

they do? even middle and upper class african americans?   please unpack.

he was asked probably a dozen times if you continue to catch up on the thread....don't hold your breath.

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