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bostonfred

Conservatives, what do you actually want?

147 posts in this topic

7 hours ago, Teyana said:

My biggest issue is I don't want babies being murdered anymore. Hopefully Trump can elect a few more judges and this will change.

Is abortion truly your biggest issue? Of course that's fine if it is. Just trying to make sure I understand you. 

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Posted (edited)

4 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Is abortion truly your biggest issue? 

 I would rank it #1 abortion #2 secure borders #3 fair trade

I understand why people don't want abortions illegal, and they would be valid reasons if I didn't think of it as terminating human life. I know many will make the argument it isn't life at such an early stage but I believe it is.

Edited by Teyana
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Interesting question.  I wonder if it would have been better phrased to ask, first, to name three influential conservatives that help to shape your worldview, and then the worldview/what do you want from government.  I think that would end up ultimately helping to understand and define the answers that come after.

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20 minutes ago, Teyana said:

 I would rank it #1 abortion #2 secure borders #3 fair trade

I understand why people don't want abortions illegal, and they would be valid reasons if I didn't think of it as terminating human life. I know many will make the argument it isn't life at such an early stage but I believe it is.

Thanks. 

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23 minutes ago, Teyana said:

 I would rank it #1 abortion #2 secure borders #3 fair trade

I understand why people don't want abortions illegal, and they would be valid reasons if I didn't think of it as terminating human life. I know many will make the argument it isn't life at such an early stage but I believe it is.

Taking an outcome oriented approach to this - Would it be accurate to say that your desired outcome is zero - or in a realistic world, as close to zero - abortions as possible? 

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44 minutes ago, Cripster said:

Absolutely not what I am saying. Workforce training is teaching kids in high school skills that are in high demand in the area. In our case, auto manufacturing and ship building. These businesses help fund  these projects as does the state in high schools and community colleges. The teacher union, which block votes democrat generally opposes this as they feel it discourages a 4 year college education and sells kids short. They don't want it in the schools at all. Many of these kids can't be doctors and lawyers. But they can be welders and earn 40k after two years of community college with benefits. But the majority of individuals supporting this is the business community and conservative legislators. Our educational system ranks in the mid 40s. Workforce training can help a lot of kids from lower income families. I can't imagine why some democrats won't  get behind this. They just want to pour more tax dollars into traditional , sub par education. 

Thanks for the clarification. I see what you're saying. Seems odd as it was the complete opposite in my area but we didn't have unions involved. My high school still offers those sorts of things even today. They are electives but are options. 

Is it argued that offering these classes take away from the core competencies teaching time?  That's something to consider and a reflection of the issues we have with our government's vision or lack thereof for educating students so they can be competitive on the world stage. 

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Posted (edited)

I understand BOTH sides of the abortion issue so I'm am really glad that I don't have to make the decision for the country.

I understand the Left's side.  They don't see the fetus as a viable human being and therefore, it can be removed at the wishes of the mother.  How can a woman be forced to carry a fetus to full term if they don't want the child or the responsibility?  I have two daughters and that decision would be theirs...not mine.

I understand the Right's side.  To them, abortion stops a beating heart and to them, that constitutes murder.....and what would any "god fearing person" do if they knew of murders occurring?  They would try to stop it.

I get it...but the bottom line is that, banning abortions will not end abortions.

I see both sides of the argument and I wouldn't want to rule on it....BUT....don't make me pay for it.  In my opinion....abortions have nothing to do with the role of our government so my tax dollars should not be part of it...one way or the other.

Anyway...IF they were somehow banned...it would fall to the States.

 

Edited by Opie
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2 minutes ago, Opie said:

I understand BOTH sides of the abortion issue so I'm am really glad that I don't have to make the decision for the country.

I understand the Left's side.  They don't see the fetus as a viable human being and can therefore, it can be removed at the wishes of the mother.  Who should a woman be forced to carry a fetus to full term if they don't want the child or the responsibility.  I have two daughters and that decision would be theirs...not mine.

I understand the Right's side.  To them, abortion stops a beating heart and to them, that constitutes murder.....and what would any "god fearing person" do if they knew of murders occurring?  They would try to stop it.

I get it...but the bottom line is that, banning abortions will not end abortions.

I see both sides of the argument and I wouldn't want to rule on it....BUT....don't make me pay for it.  In my opinion....abortions have nothing to do with the role of our government so my tax dollars should not be part of it...one way or the other.

 

I....uh...agree with you...

Do taxpayer dollars even pay for abortions now?

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Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

I....uh...agree with you...

Do taxpayer dollars even pay for abortions now?

I am pretty sure that tax payers' money helps fund Planned Parenthood and the last I heard, Planned Parenthood plays a role in abortions (among other things).

I could be wrong....it happened....once.

Edited by Opie

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8 minutes ago, Opie said:

I understand BOTH sides of the abortion issue so I'm am really glad that I don't have to make the decision for the country.

I understand the Left's side.  They don't see the fetus as a viable human being and can therefore, it can be removed at the wishes of the mother.  Who should a woman be forced to carry a fetus to full term if they don't want the child or the responsibility.  I have two daughters and that decision would be theirs...not mine.

I understand the Right's side.  To them, abortion stops a beating heart and to them, that constitutes murder.....and what would any "god fearing person" do if they knew of murders occurring?  They would try to stop it.

I get it...but the bottom line is that, banning abortions will not end abortions.

I see both sides of the argument and I wouldn't want to rule on it....BUT....don't make me pay for it.  In my opinion....abortions have nothing to do with the role of our government so my tax dollars should not be part of it...one way or the other.

 

I hate abortion.  Hate that it happens.  Hate that some are very necessary and hate that there are reasons for them.

But I realize the choices that are sometimes made.  I realize the dangers of an all out ban.

im for choice with realistic restrictions (later term and so on)

 

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3 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

I hate abortion.  Hate that it happens.  Hate that some are very necessary and hate that there are reasons for them.

But I realize the choices that are sometimes made.  I realize the dangers of an all out ban.

im for choice with realistic restrictions (later term and so on)

 

:goodposting:

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Don't Noonan said:

1)  I support lower taxes and smaller government.  Money is best spent by the people who earn it, not the government.

2) Support legal immigration only.  Oppose amnesty for those who enter the country illegally.  Secure the borders.

3) Healthcare- support competitive, free market health care system.  Health care should remain privatized.  Socialized medicine results in higher costs and everyone receives the same poor quality health care

4) support free market capitalism, creates more economic growth and jobs and not burdened by excessive government regulation.  Recent socialist movement by the left scares me to death as it would ruin our country.

5) climate change - change in global temperature is natural over long periods of time

6) Welfare - I support helping those that truly need it but helping them become self-reliant, rather than allowing them to remain dependent on the government.

7)  Homeland Security - Support necessary defense spending to destroy our biggest threat - ISIS.

8)  Hate discrimination programs like affirmative action, people should be admitted to schools and hired based on their ability.  Loved Trump ending Obama's stupid policy limiting Asians for scholarships.

9) Ban abortions - life begins at conception

10) Social Security - privatize immediately, I don't trust the governement and can do it better myself.

This is easily your best post in this forum.  Well articulated.  

Edited by zoonation

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6 minutes ago, Opie said:

I am pretty sure that tax payers' money helps fund Planned Parenthood and the last I heard, Planned Parenthood plays a role in abortions (among other things).

I could be wrong....it happened....once.

The money from the fed gov't that goes to Planned Parenthood is from Medicaid for non-abortion health care services for poor women. Because of the Hyde Amendment, the Medicaid money specifically can't be used to pay for an abortion.

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8 minutes ago, Opie said:

I am pretty sure that tax payers' money helps fund Planned Parenthood and the last I heard, Planned Parenthood plays a role in abortions (among other things).

I could be wrong....it happened....once.

Yeah, I dunno. I always thought tax pay money couldn't pay for abortions.

I don't think anyone likes abortions, but I'm also a guy who will never have to make that decision under any circumstance.

I'd prefer they weren't necessary and everyone just had access to free birth control.

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4 minutes ago, whoknew said:

The money from the fed gov't that goes to Planned Parenthood is from Medicaid for non-abortion health care services for poor women. Because of the Hyde Amendment, the Medicaid money specifically can't be used to pay for an abortion.

Then, I stand corrected.

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Just now, Opie said:

Then, I stand corrected.

Abortion is so tough.  I believe a woman hS a right to determine what she does with her own body but I hate the idea of abortion.  

It is so tough.  

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Click your mouse lose your house?

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10 hours ago, Teyana said:

I understand why people don't want abortions illegal, and they would be valid reasons if I didn't think of it as terminating human life. I know many will make the argument it isn't life at such an early stage but I believe it is.

What is more important

  • making abortion illegal
  • reducing the number of abortions

?

Sure these don't need to be contradictory goals and I'm sure your answer is "both", but these tend to be conflicting "in practice" which is why I believe this is a legitimate question.

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14 hours ago, rustycolts said:

I don't know if single payer is the way to go or not.  Something has to be done though.  After cobra runs out for me next August I will be going without insurance for 3 years until Medicare kicks in because it is just so expensive.  I think total free market may be the way to go with no restrictions between states.  Maybe nationwide co-opts.

Talk with me, if you'd like, about what options you may or may not have.  Happy to help, if I can.

As for "so expensive", the US spent $3.4T in healthcare in 2016, and that number is projected to grow by 5.6% annually for roughly the next decade according to CMS.  So that means it was roughly $3.6T last year - for ~325M people.  That's roughly $11k for every man, woman, and child on a per person basis.  It doesn't matter if insurance companies, the government, or citizens are paying that cost in the end (or some mix thereof) - it's far too high.  No matter what happens, that cost HAS to be lowered.  In the end, only two things will or even could make a sizeable impact on it - rationing and improving overall health and thus eliminating the cost before it ever happens (studies have shown that roughly half of health care expenses are from "lifestyle choices").  Or we get doctors to start charging ~20% less for their services.

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6 minutes ago, matttyl said:

Talk with me, if you'd like, about what options you may or may not have.  Happy to help, if I can.

As for "so expensive", the US spent $3.4T in healthcare in 2016, and that number is projected to grow by 5.6% annually for roughly the next decade according to CMS.  So that means it was roughly $3.6T last year - for ~325M people.  That's roughly $11k for every man, woman, and child on a per person basis.  It doesn't matter if insurance companies, the government, or citizens are paying that cost in the end (or some mix thereof) - it's far too high.  No matter what happens, that cost HAS to be lowered.  In the end, only two things will or even could make a sizeable impact on it - rationing and improving overall health and thus eliminating the cost before it ever happens (studies have shown that roughly half of health care expenses are from "lifestyle choices").  Or we get doctors to start charging ~20% less for their services.

Thank you I sure will.  I had always thought I would have VA to fall back on,but the rules have changed and it seems I have to many assets to qualify for VA.  Guess the rules were changed back during George Ws admin.  If I had signed up in 76 when I got out then I would have been grandfathered in but I didn't do that.  Shame really because when I joined that was one of the benefits I was promised.

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Just now, rustycolts said:

Thank you I sure will.  I had always thought I would have VA to fall back on,but the rules have changed and it seems I have to many assets to qualify for VA.  Guess the rules were changed back during George Ws admin.  If I had signed up in 76 when I got out then I would have been grandfathered in but I didn't do that.  Shame really because when I joined that was one of the benefits I was promised.

If you have any ability to adjust your income (not assets) you might qualify for a decent deal in the individual market.  One of it's faults, as I see it, is that subsidy eligibility is based on income, not assets.

Also, if you're going to go to the individual market, you'd want to do so as of 1/1/19 so as to only have one deductible in 2019 rather than 2 (COBRA then indy plan).  PM if you want to talk more.

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12 hours ago, Teyana said:

 I would rank it #1 abortion #2 secure borders #3 fair trade

I understand why people don't want abortions illegal, and they would be valid reasons if I didn't think of it as terminating human life. I know many will make the argument it isn't life at such an early stage but I believe it is.

I think this is a very tough issue- maybe the toughest. 

On one hand, if you believe that it is a human life, of course ending the murder of an innocent life would should be a major priority. 

On the other hand, there are questions about when it becomes a life and that life is living inside of another being so where do the rights begin and end. 

In the end, I think abortion should be legal and left to the mother to decide because it is such a gray area. When we have a gray area, I think the decision is best left to the individual. If they are in the wrong and take a life, it is something they will have to live with forever and potentially answer for eternity (if there is a God and all that stuff). 

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21 hours ago, bostonfred said:

What do you want from government?  Be as specific as possible, especially about things that aren't current hot topics, or things that have to do with keeping your team in office.  

Simple.

All of the Democrats to leave for good.

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52 minutes ago, trident said:

Simple.

All of the Democrats to leave for good.

I am not sure if this was honest or just snarky but I'd prefer you leave this stuff for other threads.  If your only political beliefs are that your team is good and the other team is bad then you might want to consider whether you have considered the issues enough to cast a good vote.  

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13 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

I am not sure if this was honest or just snarky but I'd prefer you leave this stuff for other threads.  If your only political beliefs are that your team is good and the other team is bad then you might want to consider whether you have considered the issues enough to cast a good vote.  

When I vote Republican, I know I just cast a good vote.

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2 minutes ago, trident said:

When I vote Republican, I know I just cast a good vote.

This, in a nutshell, is why so many around here are not taken seriously.

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On 7/11/2018 at 1:46 PM, bostonfred said:

What do you want from government?  Be as specific as possible, especially about things that aren't current hot topics, or things that have to do with keeping your team in office.  

I don't think you've gotten a formal conservative answer yet. 

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1 minute ago, Yankee23Fan said:

I don't think you've gotten a formal conservative answer yet. 

Yours is the one everybody is waiting for

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6 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

Yours is the one everybody is waiting for

I've rewritten it 5 times. I don't think anyone is going to like my answer.

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2 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

I've rewritten it 5 times. I don't think anyone is going to like my answer.

?

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Stop teasing us you minx. You're even getting Joe hot and bothered and he hates that.

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2 hours ago, trident said:

Simple.

All of the Democrats to leave for good.

Please leave this thread if this is the kind of thing you're going to post. @bostonfred has done a good job of trying to generate discussion. You are not. 

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Posted (edited)

4 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

Stop teasing us you minx. You're even getting Joe hot and bothered and he hates that.

No hot and bothered. Just interesting it's taken five rewrites.

Edited by Joe Bryant

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3 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

No hot and bothered. Just interesting it's taken five rewrites.

I've been known to write too much.

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2 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

No hot and bothered. Just interesting it's that hard to articulate. 

I think he's implying that his wish list is going to be much more strictly conservative than most.  Get the federal government out of anything the states can do, and stop using the commerce clause to justify government expansion.

I'm interested in the details though. 

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7 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

I've been known to write too much.

I agree clear and concise and to the point is tons better and much more difficult. The number one problem I have with most writing today is people think more words means better. 

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Posted (edited)

17 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Please leave this thread if this is the kind of thing you're going to post. @bostonfred has done a good job of trying to generate discussion. You are not. 

He asked what conservatives really wanted.  As a conservative, that is what I really want.  I want Democrats to go away.

Edited by trident

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25 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

I've been known to write too much.

It's still probably less than Tim, so fire away.

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13 minutes ago, trident said:

He asked what conservatives really wanted.  As a conservative, that is what I really want.  I want Democrats to go away.

Leave this thread.

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17 hours ago, Opie said:

I understand BOTH sides of the abortion issue so I'm am really glad that I don't have to make the decision for the country.

I understand the Left's side.  They don't see the fetus as a viable human being and therefore, it can be removed at the wishes of the mother.  How can a woman be forced to carry a fetus to full term if they don't want the child or the responsibility?  I have two daughters and that decision would be theirs...not mine.

I understand the Right's side.  To them, abortion stops a beating heart and to them, that constitutes murder.....and what would any "god fearing person" do if they knew of murders occurring?  They would try to stop it.

I get it...but the bottom line is that, banning abortions will not end abortions.

I see both sides of the argument and I wouldn't want to rule on it....BUT....don't make me pay for it.  In my opinion....abortions have nothing to do with the role of our government so my tax dollars should not be part of it...one way or the other.

Anyway...IF they were somehow banned...it would fall to the States.

 

They haven't been paid by the government since the Hyde Amendment in 1977

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