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bostonfred

Liberals, what do you actually want?

141 posts in this topic

1- Jet Packs. Where are they!!

2- Protect children from sex change.

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39 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I need to add: I would have been very satisfied with a taco truck on every corner. I was promised this, but unfortunately Hillary Clinton was not elected.

You have that covered with #4.

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5 hours ago, Opie said:

Someone....Anyone....NOT with the last name of Trump......easy enough?

Oh...and that someone MUST have a "D" next to his name.

 

Sounds reasonable to me.

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Less defense, military spending

Huge tax breaks / incentives to encourage investment in alternative energy 

Increase taxes on uber wealthy 

Move funding to public parks, public radio and TV, NEA. 

Sane gun laws

Super generic but it takes someone smarter than me to figure out - have to figure out to fix wealth inequality. There’s going to be rich and poor but it seems like it’s getting way out of wack right now. 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, -fish- said:

1.   Investment in renewable energy.   Commitment to end use of coal.   Significant goals regarding lowering dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil.

2.   Sound environmental policies including a recognition of climate change and either reengaging in the Paris accord or unilateral commitment to something stronger.

3.  Term limits for house and senate.

4.   Campaign finance reform.

5.   Fair, progressive tax schedule.

6.   Health care, including single-payer.

7.   Renegotiate cost of drugs paid for through medicare.

8.   Establish national gun registry and allow searchable databases of weapons.

9.   Limit or prevent borrowing against Social Security

 

Replace #3 with criminal justice reform and this is a great start. For-profit prisons are absolutely insane, though #4 would go a ways to solving that. The fact that you can be thrown in jail for months or years before you ever go to trial, losing your job and possibly your family in the process, is so, so wrong and it happens every day in this country.

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8 hours ago, Opie said:

Someone....Anyone....NOT with the last name of Trump......easy enough?

Oh...and that someone MUST have a "D" next to his name.

Just how hard is this to understand?

Now...gimme, gimme, gimme or it will be ARMAGEDDON...the END of TIMES!

Literally....we ALL WILL DIE if this does not happen.

You're not liberal. Please let liberal minded folks answer. 

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2 hours ago, Don't Noonan said:

If you receive welfare you must get snipped

If you get a mortgage deduction off your taxes you must get drug tested.

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44 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

If you get a mortgage deduction off your taxes you must get drug tested.

sign me up

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6 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Moving it to a weekend might help if you make it weekend-long. A holiday won't help a lot of the people you want to help, though. Service industries aren't closing for election day.

If there was a law stating businesses that stayed open on Elections Day had their tax rate automatically elevated to 500% of revenues and ineligible to take any deductions, do you think they would close on Election Day?

Obviously the question is hyperbole.  Its purpose is to show most policy details that don’t seem feasible are a question of political will.  We’re fortunate enough to live in by far the wealthiest democracy in the history of the form of government.  Just about any policy goal or initiative is within our reach.  It’s a matter of political will. 

But that’s probably off-topic.  The purpose of this thread seems to be desired goals and outcomes.  Details come later.

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I don't know if it's a liberal issue or not but I heard an interesting discussion this morning about term limits for Supreme Court justices that was really intriguing. Would require a constitutional amendment but a regular rotation of modern ideas into those spots may be better than 40 year terms and 90-year-old judges. Because I'm that guy, I have ideas.

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15 hours ago, timschochet said:

9. Pro small business and business in general. 

I am curious what this means.

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34 minutes ago, toshiba said:

I am curious what this means.

Certain Democratic politicians, like Hillary and Corey Booker, consistently emphasize programs and measures designed to help small business and business in general- for instance, Hillary proposed improving Chicago’s transport infrastructure to cut the time of freight traveling through that city by about 400%. This is the sort of pragmatic investment by the federal government that I would like to see more of. 

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To start with a sane American President. 

We've already tried a senile one and that was plenty scary.

Please, pretty please, elect someone sane next time

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9 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Certain Democratic politicians, like Hillary and Corey Booker, consistently emphasize programs and measures designed to help small business and business in general- for instance, Hillary proposed improving Chicago’s transport infrastructure to cut the time of freight traveling through that city by about 400%. This is the sort of pragmatic investment by the federal government that I would like to see more of. 

Thanks, the way it was worded left it very open ended. 

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11 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Certain Democratic politicians, like Hillary and Corey Booker, consistently emphasize programs and measures designed to help small business and business in general- for instance, Hillary proposed improving Chicago’s transport infrastructure to cut the time of freight traveling through that city by about 400%. This is the sort of pragmatic investment by the federal government that I would like to see more of. 

So, in the future a one hour journey will end three hours befor it began?

That's nice!

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Most of the stuff I would say has already been mentioned.  One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that I would like our government to substantially increase the amount of humanitarian foreign aid we provide and substantially decrease our military might.  I want the world to view the U.S. as charitable, not as a bully.

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17 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

For starters:

Fair tax

Single Payer Health Care

Legalization of marijuana 

More emphasis on education, science and innovation

 

 

This is my favorite list of this thread. Would love to see all of these things done. 

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Posted (edited)

26 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Certain Democratic politicians, like Hillary and Corey Booker, consistently emphasize programs and measures designed to help small business and business in general- for instance, Hillary proposed improving Chicago’s transport infrastructure to cut the time of freight traveling through that city by about 400%. This is the sort of pragmatic investment by the federal government that I would like to see more of. 

Booker 2020!

In fact, that's what I'd like to add. That on January 21, 2021 (or whatever), Corey Booker is inaugurated as the new President.

Edited by whoknew
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25 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

This is my favorite list of this thread. Would love to see all of these things done. 

Can you guys please unpack fair tax for me?

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20 hours ago, Opie said:

Someone....Anyone....NOT with the last name of Trump......easy enough?

Oh...and that someone MUST have a "D" next to his name.

Just how hard is this to understand?

Now...gimme, gimme, gimme or it will be ARMAGEDDON...the END of TIMES!

Literally....we ALL WILL DIE if this does not happen.

So you finally converted. Glad you came around!

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Not sure how it got here but Fair Tax is generally considered a conservative idea, because it taxes everyone at the same rate regardless of the marginal value of their dollars.  Most liberal tax policy is based on the idea that a dollar doesn't mean the same thing to Jeff Bezos, myself and someone living at the poverty line.  If all three of us are paying the same amount in taxes at McDonald's, that's not really a liberal tax policy.  In addition, generally speaking the richer you are the lower the percentage of your income that you spend on consumption, so the fair tax would actually be regressive (poor people pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than rich people).  Obviously you could tinker with all of that via exemptions and credits and refunds and whatnot, but the basic idea is definitely not a liberal one.

An example of a liberal tax policy would be a massive increase in the estate tax, with the added revenue being distributed to social programs and tax cuts to the middle and lower classes. It's absolutely ridiculous that we pay more taxes on our salaries than rich people pay on their inheritances.  In a real meritocracy that would be flip-flopped.  What we have is a plutocracy, not a meritocracy.

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Yeah...Sales taxis quite regressive and a pain in he ### to budget for.

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Way way less spending on bombs. Way less.  Like half for starters.  

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Need to eliminate all the tax breaks the filthy rich can use to avoid paying taxes.  The estate tax is awful as it's the government's way of saying they really own your property instead of your family owning it.

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1 hour ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Need to eliminate all the tax breaks the filthy rich can use to avoid paying taxes.  The estate tax is awful as it's the government's way of saying they really own your property instead of your family owning it.

I would love to discuss this in another thread if you'd like to start one. 

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13 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

I would love to discuss this in another thread if you'd like to start one. 

I don't know why. The post mischaracterizes both the estate tax (it's a tax on a transaction, just like income, payroll and capital gains taxes) and taxes generally (real and personal property taxes already exist and are far closer to being "the government's way of saying they really own your property" than estate taxes).

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Affordable effective healthcare for all, including the mentally ill, which I do not believe can be accomplished through a for-profit system.
Equal protection, for real.
Massive cuts to military spending.
Massive increase in education spending.
Livable minimum wage.
Environmental policies grounded in science.
A president with a functioning brain.

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21 hours ago, timschochet said:

Maybe I'm out of place here because I've never really considered myself a liberal. Even so, since liberals are now the most vocal opponents of Donald Trump, I am on their side. So here's what I want, in order of importance:

1. A recognition that man-made climate change is our most serious problem, and a national effort to combat it.

2. A reaffirmation of the United States as leader of the free world, and a commitment to NATO and our other allies such as South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, that we WILL continue to defend them against aggression.

3. Free trade. No tariffs, and re-explore the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

4. A path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants already here. More open immigration allowed, specifically from Latin American countries. Open to taking in refugees from every political hot spot all over the world.

5. An end to institutionalized racism in our justice system against blacks and Latinos.

6. An end to the private sales loophole, background checks for all gun sales, registration of all privately held firearms, a ban on AR-15s and similar weapons.

7. Make homosexuals and transgenders protected classes against discrimination in our society.

8.  Equal pay and rights for women and an emphasis on the "Metoo" movement.

9. Pro small business and business in general. 

That'll do for now. 

How is healthcare not in your top 9?

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23 hours ago, timschochet said:

3. Free trade. No tariffs, and re-explore the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

What exact areas do you want re-examined with regard to TPP? I've read numerous analyses of the deal from all angles of the political spectrum and probably I'd estimate 80-90% of what I read found it a net negative to Americans.

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On 7/11/2018 at 11:10 AM, bostonfred said:

I agree with that, and appreciate the positive contribution, but again, I think that belongs in the conservative thread. 

Why is investment in infrastructure a conservative ideal?  This can and should be here in this thread. 

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6 hours ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Need to eliminate all the tax breaks the filthy rich can use to avoid paying taxes.  The estate tax is awful as it's the government's way of saying they really own your property instead of your family owning it.

Eliminating the estate tax would be a tax break the filthy rich can use to avoid paying taxes.

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7 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

Not sure how it got here but Fair Tax is generally considered a conservative idea, because it taxes everyone at the same rate regardless of the marginal value of their dollars.  Most liberal tax policy is based on the idea that a dollar doesn't mean the same thing to Jeff Bezos, myself and someone living at the poverty line.  If all three of us are paying the same amount in taxes at McDonald's, that's not really a liberal tax policy.  In addition, generally speaking the richer you are the lower the percentage of your income that you spend on consumption, so the fair tax would actually be regressive (poor people pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than rich people).  Obviously you could tinker with all of that via exemptions and credits and refunds and whatnot, but the basic idea is definitely not a liberal one.

An example of a liberal tax policy would be a massive increase in the estate tax, with the added revenue being distributed to social programs and tax cuts to the middle and lower classes. It's absolutely ridiculous that we pay more taxes on our salaries than rich people pay on their inheritances.  In a real meritocracy that would be flip-flopped.  What we have is a plutocracy, not a meritocracy.

I assume that the thought here is that at least under the Fair Tax, all loopholes for the rich are closed.   While it wouldn't be progressive tax, at least they wealthiest would be paying taxes instead of paying nothing or next to nothing through innumerable tax shelters.  

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8 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

Not sure how it got here but Fair Tax is generally considered a conservative idea, because it taxes everyone at the same rate regardless of the marginal value of their dollars.  Most liberal tax policy is based on the idea that a dollar doesn't mean the same thing to Jeff Bezos, myself and someone living at the poverty line.  If all three of us are paying the same amount in taxes at McDonald's, that's not really a liberal tax policy.  In addition, generally speaking the richer you are the lower the percentage of your income that you spend on consumption, so the fair tax would actually be regressive (poor people pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than rich people).  Obviously you could tinker with all of that via exemptions and credits and refunds and whatnot, but the basic idea is definitely not a liberal one.

An example of a liberal tax policy would be a massive increase in the estate tax, with the added revenue being distributed to social programs and tax cuts to the middle and lower classes. It's absolutely ridiculous that we pay more taxes on our salaries than rich people pay on their inheritances.  In a real meritocracy that would be flip-flopped.  What we have is a plutocracy, not a meritocracy.

Can we negotiate? I'll give you single payer health care and free universal care for all children up to age 16 for the Fair Tax and total elimination of the federal income tax structure.

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5 hours ago, BAT1man said:

Why is investment in infrastructure a conservative ideal?  This can and should be here in this thread. 

In fact, extensive infrastructure spending was a notable part of the Progressive platform that Bernie Sanders presented.

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1 hour ago, Yankee23Fan said:

Can we negotiate? I'll give you single payer health care and free universal care for all children up to age 16 for the Fair Tax and total elimination of the federal income tax structure.

Is replacing the ifederal income tax with the Fair Tax revenue neutral? On its face a Fair Tax seems regressive in nature. But that’s a very tempting deal you’ve offered there.

In fact your full list doesn’t differ from my full list that much at all. But mine is posted in the liberal thread.

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1 hour ago, Yankee23Fan said:

Can we negotiate? I'll give you single payer health care and free universal care for all children up to age 16 for the Fair Tax and total elimination of the federal income tax structure.

Can you  also throw in a BIG that is more than 23% poverty level that is the prebate (assuming that number is still the same).  And the language that was in most (all?) of the bills that were proposed automatically reset the 30% tax rate when the FairTax failed to be revenue neutral needs to be there except it needs to say "fully pay for government" and not lock in and/or create more structural deficits.  Now if Congress want to react to a sticker shock when the rate is much higher by doing the hard work of cutting spending (no sequester style automated cuts allowed as we have plenty of experience that they don't get proper attention) then the rate can reset lower also in subsequent years.  

Deal?

Oh and I mostly like your style of conservatism in the other thread.   Too bad that it seems so foreign now a days.

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