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NewlyRetired

WSOP Main Event - Hellmuth controversy

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did you guys see this story?  let me see if I can describe.

======

3 players in on the flop.

In order of action:

Guy A: two diamonds, king high

Hellmuth: Pair of 7's

Guy B: two diamonds, ace high

=====

Flop comes two diamonds and an over card to Hellmuth's pair

Betting goes:

Guy A bets, Hellmuth calls, Guy B shoves

Almost immediately after the shove Hellmuth goes into one of his normal tirades that always indicate he is going to fold since he was basically screaming how weak his hand was.  Problem was Guy A had not yet bet.

=====

The controversy was that with a player still to act, Guy A normally would have folded but with Hellmuth all but mucking his hand with his petulance, Guy A decided to call.

Hellmuth folds, Guy A sucks out sending Guy B home.

======

Many pros saw what happened and called for Hellmuth to be penalized but nothing transpired.

Later Guy B called out Hellmuth on twitter and politely asked him to remain quiet next time.

Hellmuth, while claiming he did nothing wrong, at least did offer to buy Guy's B entrance into next years main event.

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Granted, not a pro...but a behavior that "always indicates he's going to fold" frankly shouldn't mean ####. If that behavior got A to call because he thought he'd fold, then Hellmuth ended up calling, and B went on to triple up, B would probably be perfectly fine with how things proceeded.

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2 minutes ago, RUSF18 said:

Granted, not a pro...but a behavior that "always indicates he's going to fold" frankly shouldn't mean ####. If that behavior got A to call because he thought he'd fold, then Hellmuth ended up calling, and B went on to triple up, B would probably be perfectly fine with how things proceeded.

Talking about the Hand when someone is still to act is crap 

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I have dealt some charity poker events before and what Hellmuth did was wrong. As a dealer we would ask him to please stop since there are other people in the hand. If he didn't he would be given a 1 or 2 round penalty. 

Everyone did the right thing after, the guy asked Hellmuth to not do that again and Hellmuth realized he was wrong and may have cost the guy his tournament and offered to compensate. Doesn't seem to be a big deal. 

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3 minutes ago, RUSF18 said:

Granted, not a pro...but a behavior that "always indicates he's going to fold" frankly shouldn't mean ####. If that behavior got A to call because he thought he'd fold, then Hellmuth ended up calling, and B went on to triple up, B would probably be perfectly fine with how things proceeded.

as I understand it,  talking about a hand when there are others to act in front of you is a big no no.  That is why so many pros called for a penalty on Hellmuth.

Even Hellmuth himself likely realized he was wrong else he never would have offered to pay the $10k for next years entrance fee.

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I haven't watched poker on years. I can't believe he's still doing this ####. ########

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Phil paid.  He bought JCamby33 in for next year's ME.  

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Just now, shadyridr said:

I haven't watched poker on years. I can't believe he's still doing this ####. ########

I saw a video of this the other day, and nothing has changed it seems.  Exact same whining.  The only thing that kept this from being a full melt down was that he finally realized there was still a player to act in front of him and he quickly shut down.

The live announcers were all over him when he started the whine since they could pretty easily see what affect it could have on the hand and eventually worked out in the worst case possible.

At least the guy gets into the event next year.

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:shrug:

 

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Just now, munga30 said:

Phil paid.  He bought JCamby33 in for next year's ME.  

yes, that was already mentioned in the first post.

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Just now, NewlyRetired said:

yes, that was already mentioned in the first post.

No it was not.  

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Just now, munga30 said:

No it was not.  

?  look at the very last line.

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Just now, NewlyRetired said:

?  look at the very last line.

Offered to pay is not paid.  sorry if you think it's nitty but it does advance the story.  Camby tweeted a pic of his receipt.  

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4 minutes ago, munga30 said:

No it was not.  

EVERY GOT DANG TIME

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Guy was likely thrilled to get the call.  Now taking charity.  Lame.

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He is paying the guy’s entry next year, more than generous for the transgression. 

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The guy with the A was the one who shoved and lost.  It's very likely that the guy with the K-2 would have folded if Helmuth hadn't telegraphed his fold like that.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/07/world-series-of-poker-main-event-2018-curses-during-hand-james-campbell-alex-kuzmin-video

Good for Helmuth for making it right.

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16 minutes ago, Daywalker said:

Guy was likely thrilled to get the call.  Now taking charity.  Lame.

:rolleyes:

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10 minutes ago, Psychopav said:

The guy with the A was the one who shoved and lost.  It's very likely that the guy with the K-2 would have folded if Helmuth hadn't telegraphed his fold like that.

did I say this wrong in my first post?  I sometimes screw up the jargon.

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We played family poker last night - my 10-year old raised my 3 bet all-in while I was holding K’s. She had 8/5 off - damn did I laugh and then I called her a loser.  She still had 30 bb’s!  She hit a straight on the river so I threw my drink in her face and told her she sucked and that I was smarter than her.  Learn to play!!

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I saw the video for this already and what he did is absolutely uncalled for. First of all, if someone did that to him, he'd have lost his #### (and rightfully so). Secondly, if someone else did this, they would have received a penalty. 

Phil buying his entry next year is the least he can do given his popularity and wealth. And, at first Phil didn't even apologize correctly. He said he was sorry for swearing, not for affecting the hand with the excuse that he was going to snap call if the other guy folds and would have busted him anyway.  

Hellmuth never thinks he's wrong. Sometimes he has a legit beef, but plenty of times his behavior is inappropriate. This was one of the worst I've seen from him because it's a big and basic poker no-no.

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Phil should really buy both A's and B's entries next year. But if he had to choose, it should be A's. At the end of his involvement, he had hurt A and helped B.

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It was bush league but I thought Phil just blanked for a second and forgot that there was a third person in the hand. Once he came to and remembered there was another guy behind him he shut up. He just gets off on being that character on TV.

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1 hour ago, Psychopav said:

It's very likely that the guy with the K-2 would have folded

Not so sure about that. I think he may call there.

That said, I really like PH, but he lets his emotions get too out of whack and he was clearly clearly wrong here. Should have been given a penalty.

Like others have said he bought the guy into next years ME, but that doesn't excuse the behavior.

Does anyone have a link to the video? I can't find it anywhere

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5 minutes ago, Mr.Pack said:

Does anyone have a link to the video? I can't find it anywhere

it was posted in this thread.  Look ~7 posts above your post

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2 hours ago, NewlyRetired said:

did you guys see this story?  let me see if I can describe.

======

3 players in on the flop.

In order of action:

Guy A: two diamonds, king high

Hellmuth: Pair of 7's

Guy B: two diamonds, ace high

=====

Flop comes two diamonds and an over card to Hellmuth's pair

Betting goes:

Guy A bets, Hellmuth calls, Guy B shoves

Almost immediately after the shove Hellmuth goes into one of his normal tirades that always indicate he is going to fold since he was basically screaming how weak his hand was.  Problem was Guy A had not yet bet.

=====

The controversy was that with a player still to act, Guy A normally would have folded but with Hellmuth all but mucking his hand with his petulance, Guy A decided to call.

Hellmuth folds, Guy A sucks out sending Guy B home.

======

Many pros saw what happened and called for Hellmuth to be penalized but nothing transpired.

Later Guy B called out Hellmuth on twitter and politely asked him to remain quiet next time.

Hellmuth, while claiming he did nothing wrong, at least did offer to buy Guy's B entrance into next years main event.

I saw this live and have followed his FB posts since he did this.  He claimed he made a mistake.   It's up to the dealers and other guys at the table to call him out right when this happens. The announcers on TV called him out right away.    It's just Phil getting carried away too much as he usually does. Hopefully he doesn't do it again.

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30 minutes ago, Nipsey said:

It was bush league but I thought Phil just blanked for a second and forgot that there was a third person in the hand. Once he came to and remembered there was another guy behind him he shut up. He just gets off on being that character on TV.

This is basically what I saw live.   I don't think he did it on purpose.   We all make mistakes playing every now and then.

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21 minutes ago, NewlyRetired said:

it was posted in this thread.  Look ~7 posts above your post

Thanks GB.

Just watched it. So out of line, terrible

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1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

I saw the video for this already and what he did is absolutely uncalled for. First of all, if someone did that to him, he'd have lost his #### (and rightfully so). Secondly, if someone else did this, they would have received a penalty. 

Phil buying his entry next year is the least he can do given his popularity and wealth. And, at first Phil didn't even apologize correctly. He said he was sorry for swearing, not for affecting the hand with the excuse that he was going to snap call if the other guy folds and would have busted him anyway.  

Hellmuth never thinks he's wrong. Sometimes he has a legit beef, but plenty of times his behavior is inappropriate. This was one of the worst I've seen from him because it's a big and basic poker no-no.

On the FB feed I saw, several pointed out that some players #####ing about what Phil did have done the very same thing before and not been called out for it.  It's up to the dealer and other players to call it out.  The TV is delayed 30 minutes.

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Even money I wind up playing with Phil tomorrow in the HORSE .  LOL

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Did anyone see Ivey throw in that chip to call an all-in and they let him take it back?    

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2 minutes ago, Getzlaf15 said:

Love Polk's videos.  I think the hand would have still played out the same way.

Agreed and agreed.

And good luck tomorrow!

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Posted (edited)

37 minutes ago, Getzlaf15 said:

On the FB feed I saw, several pointed out that some players #####ing about what Phil did have done the very same thing before and not been called out for it.  It's up to the dealer and other players to call it out.  The TV is delayed 30 minutes.

Right, but that's kind of the point Polk made. The dealer is more likely to not call out someone like Phil or another poker celebrity.  And just as the announcers immediately knew, you know the dealer did as well.  In a table of unknowns, a dealer is at least saying something with almost certainty and much higher likelihood of giving a penalty in that tournament.

Edited by gianmarco

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1 minute ago, gianmarco said:

Right, but that's kind of the point Polk made. The dealer is more likely to not call out someone like Phil or another poker celebrity.  And just as the announcers immediately knew, you know the dealer did as well.  In a table of unknowns, a dealer is at least saying something with almost certainly and much higher likelihood of giving a penalty in that tournament.

I agree.  Also, Phil only apologized for swearing initially. So I take back what i said earlier.  Someone has to call him out though or it's never going to stop.

Kind of funny that two tables behind me at the PLO8 event before the dinner break, some guy was berating and irritating Phil so hard constantly that he received a one round penalty.

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Phil is in final 3 of Event 71 right this moment. 

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Phil acted inappropariately but not illegaly. He seems to have offered a very fair repentance.Case closed. 

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9 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Phil acted inappropariately but not illegaly. He seems to have offered a very fair repentance.Case closed. 

Actually, it is definitely against the rules. Not even a gray area.

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8 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Actually, it is definitely against the rules. Not even a gray area.

Well if it isn't in the grey, no reason to make such a noise of it. 

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