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Trump - Putin Summit: The Helsinki Humiliation

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On 7/21/2018 at 10:15 AM, GoBirds said:

While he clearly inherited money and isn’t self made, it’s hard to argue he hasn’t been successful. For the handful of bankruptcies there were hundreds of successes. Not a bad batting average in a business where many come in and tank right away. The norm is inheriting a few million and blowing the fortune in these times unfortunately. 

All he had to do was do everybody dirty all along the way and launder a few billion rubles. New York real estate boom while his family was firmly entrenched in NY real estate didn’t hurt

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I believe the Russians meddled in the election to help Trump win.  Only an idiot wouldn’t.   I don’t believe that there is any objective basis to conclude, with any level of certainty, that the meddling was causally related to his victory.   

A necessary intellectual exercise, and one that needs to be pursued in the interest of preserving the integrity of fundamental democratic institutions should, at a minimum, seek to avoid or curb any further undermining of the electoral process.  At any cost,  

But russian meddling, with or without proof of Trump syndicate collusion, doesn’t ( and won’t on the right) move the needle in the war to come.  Democrats would be better served to (try) and convince the trumpicons that this country needs real meaningful leadership again. 

Even if mueller is able to tangentially tag trump (or some part of his immoral syndicate) for 2016 electoral bs, it won’t be enough.   The left needs to weave a vision of real (social and economic) prosperity in with the wolf in the henhouse narrative to move enough moderates to stomp out the radical trump movement. 

And I still don’t see the leader/candidate who is going to do that.  As ####ed up as that is.  A country of 400mm people doesn’t currently have a candidate who can crush this buffoon.  

Unreal.  

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48 minutes ago, zoonation said:

I believe the Russians meddled in the election to help Trump win.  Only an idiot wouldn’t.   I don’t believe that there is any objective basis to conclude, with any level of certainty, that the meddling was causally related to his victory.  

“Any level of certainty” includes being 1% certain. I’d put the true chance between 35% and 95% with a fairly high level of confidence. The objective basis for that includes the fact that the election was so close that nearly anything could have tipped the scales.

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On 7/21/2018 at 8:15 AM, GoBirds said:

While he clearly inherited money and isn’t self made, it’s hard to argue he hasn’t been successful. For the handful of bankruptcies there were hundreds of successes. Not a bad batting average in a business where many come in and tank right away. The norm is inheriting a few million and blowing the fortune in these times unfortunately. 

This is simply false.

My favorite Trump business, showing his keen insight into the markets:

Quote

I think it’s a great time to start a mortgage company,”  Trump famously predicted to CNBC in April 2006. “The real-estate market is going to be very strong for a long time to come.” In reality, the market had already begun deflating at that point and would collapse within a matter of months. Unsurprisingly, Trump Mortgage’s business fell far short of its projections, doing less than a third of the $3 billion in business executives predicted it would to do in its first year. At the time, Trump blamed the failure on the executives who run the company. He had tapped E.J. Ridings for the company’s CEO position; the company’s website boasted Ridings as having been a “top executive of one of Wall Street’s most prestigious investment banks,” but Money Magazine later found he had just six months of experience as a stockbroker before he went to work a small mortgage company. Trump Mortgage shuttered in September 2007. According to the Washington Post, the company never paid a $298,274 judgement it owed a former employee, nor the $3,555 it owed in unpaid taxes.

 

Edited by -fish-
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35 minutes ago, -fish- said:

This is simply false.

My favorite Trump business, showing his keen insight into the markets:

 

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

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On 7/21/2018 at 8:15 AM, GoBirds said:

While he clearly inherited money and isn’t self made, it’s hard to argue he hasn’t been successful. For the handful of bankruptcies there were hundreds of successes.

Do shell corporations count as successful businesses? Or are you calculating the 1-to-100 ratio in terms of "his businesses only filed for bankruptcy on SIX days of his life, but he made money HUNDREDS of other days"?

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9 hours ago, -fish- said:

This is simply false.

My favorite Trump business, showing his keen insight into the markets:

 

One weak example? Look up how many entities he’s been part of, a lot more than the failures you will find. Sad how desperate some of you are to complain about anything. 

Edited by GoBirds
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7 hours ago, [scooter] said:

Do shell corporations count as successful businesses? Or are you calculating the 1-to-100 ratio in terms of "his businesses only filed for bankruptcy on SIX days of his life, but he made money HUNDREDS of other days"?

Are you smart enough to understand everyone in real estate uses shell companies for their investments and their is nothing wrong with it?

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On 7/21/2018 at 11:28 AM, GoBirds said:

Seeing perspective of a very successful business owner that did it the right way/ethically from what I know is interesting to a much less successful self employed person who hopes to achieve a fraction of that. :D

Familiarity with the challenges of running a company etc. Just interesting to me, nothing more. 

As you mentioned, trump inherited a lot of money, but some of the information I’ve read speculated that his father was doing business with la casa Nostra which was eventually taken over by Russian mafia. I’m not so sure any of his money was ever attained “ethically”, and he also has a long history of litigation regarding vendors and contractors who have done work for him and not been compensated. 

I don’t have time at the moment but I’ll see if I can find some info on the mafia related stuff and link it later. 

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Stormy's lover Donny was such a successful businessman that no legitimate bank would lend him any more money so he had to go groveling to the Russian kleptocracy, undermine our national security and make us the laughing stock of the world. Genius!

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Trump could have simply invested what he inherited and he wouldn't be any more rich than he is with all of his shady dealings.  If Trump wasn't born a multi-millionaire, he'd be a groundskeeper at a golf course or something. Below average intelligence.

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2 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Trump could have simply invested what he inherited and he wouldn't be any more rich than he is with all of his shady dealings.  If Trump wasn't born a multi-millionaire, he'd be a groundskeeper at a golf course or something. Below average intelligence.

But I heard he has the best genetics ever.  I think if he hadn't been born rich, he's probably be another Dolph Lundgren.  

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9 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Trump could have simply invested what he inherited and he wouldn't be any more rich than he is with all of his shady dealings.  If Trump wasn't born a multi-millionaire, he'd be a groundskeeper at a golf course or something. Below average intelligence.

He’s actually be one of the yardbarkers pushing snuggies, oxyclean, or some other scam on TV.

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6 minutes ago, Sammy3469 said:

He’s actually be one of the yardbarkers pushing snuggies, oxyclean, or some other scam on TV.

Oxyclean works pretty well, so that's out.  

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I think, without the money, his upside would be being Jason Spencer.  Most likely, he would be Rodney Dangerfield’s character from Natural Born Killers.

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28 minutes ago, Sammy3469 said:

He’s actually be one of the yardbarkers pushing snuggies, oxyclean, or some other scam on TV.

He's Herb Tarlek from WKRP in Cincinnati.

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1 hour ago, GoBirds said:
9 hours ago, [scooter] said:

Do shell corporations count as successful businesses? Or are you calculating the 1-to-100 ratio in terms of "his businesses only filed for bankruptcy on SIX days of his life, but he made money HUNDREDS of other days"?

Are you smart enough to understand everyone in real estate uses shell companies for their investments and their is nothing wrong with it?

Of course. I'm also smart enough to understand that having 100 shell countries is not the same thing as having 100 successful businesses, and I'm also smart enough not to try to compare shell companies to major businesses that went bankrupt in an attempt to score points on a fantasy football message board.

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23 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Of course. I'm also smart enough to understand that having 100 shell countries is not the same thing as having 100 successful businesses, and I'm also smart enough not to try to compare shell companies to major businesses that went bankrupt in an attempt to score points on a fantasy football message board.

But clearly not smart enough to run four casinos into bankruptcy. That takes wicked SMAHTSTM

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If I'm going to admire someone or respect their success or body of work, I'd like to make sure that I also expect integrity and honesty.   If you read the facts of the discrimination case, it sets the tone for the type of business person or person Trump really is.

https://www.npr.org/2016/09/29/495955920/donald-trump-plagued-by-decades-old-housing-discrimination-case

Quote

The Justice Department sued Donald Trump, his father, Fred, and Trump Management in order to obtain a settlement in which Trump and his father would promise not to discriminate. The case eventually was settled two years later after Trump tried to countersue the Justice Department for $100 million for making false statements. Those allegations were dismissed by the court.

He's also had a history of not paying contractors after work has been completed.  

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

Yes..what a great business man.

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1 hour ago, [scooter] said:

Of course. I'm also smart enough to understand that having 100 shell countries is not the same thing as having 100 successful businesses, and I'm also smart enough not to try to compare shell companies to major businesses that went bankrupt in an attempt to score points on a fantasy football message board.

Wow you really have no clue. 

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Anyone wanna see one of the most ridiculous Tweets of all-time?

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 1m1 minute ago

I’m very concerned that Russia will be fighting very hard to have an impact on the upcoming Election. Based on the fact that no President has been tougher on Russia than me, they will be pushing very hard for the Democrats. They definitely don’t want Trump!

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2 minutes ago, Skoo said:

Anyone wanna see one of the most ridiculous Tweets of all-time?

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 1m1 minute ago

I’m very concerned that Russia will be fighting very hard to have an impact on the upcoming Election. Based on the fact that no President has been tougher on Russia than me, they will be pushing very hard for the Democrats. They definitely don’t want Trump!

:lmao:  :cry::lmao:

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7 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Wow you really have no clue. 

I've heard of speaking of oneself in the third person, but the second?

:P 

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6 minutes ago, Skoo said:

Anyone wanna see one of the most ridiculous Tweets of all-time?

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 1m1 minute ago

I’m very concerned that Russia will be fighting very hard to have an impact on the upcoming Election. Based on the fact that no President has been tougher on Russia than me, they will be pushing very hard for the Democrats. They definitely don’t want Trump!

OED entry

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2 hours ago, Skoo said:

Anyone wanna see one of the most ridiculous Tweets of all-time?

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 1m1 minute ago

I’m very concerned that Russia will be fighting very hard to have an impact on the upcoming Election. Based on the fact that no President has been tougher on Russia than me, they will be pushing very hard for the Democrats. They definitely don’t want Trump!

It's called laying the groundwork. If Dems do well in November, he can say, "That's just because Russia helped them" and then use that to kick up dust about the investigation into the '16 campaign.

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6 minutes ago, badmojo1006 said:

This seems like it ought to garner more attention. Anyone have a basic level explanation of possible reasons Russia might do this? Seems, Cold War-ish, to me.

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On 7/24/2018 at 2:45 PM, zftcg said:

It's called laying the groundwork. If Dems do well in November, he can say, "That's just because Russia helped them" and then use that to kick up dust about the investigation into the '16 campaign.

I actually hope this is 100% his thought process. :lol:

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1 hour ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Seems important to note:

Bond experts like Raymond James's Kevin Giddis pointed to a flood of Treasury supply for higher long-term rates back in May. However, most of the excess likely came from historically large Treasury auctions to help pay for Washington's new tax cuts and spending bill, not Moscow's selling.

"While this liquidation by the Russians is curious, the amount they held, along with the amount they sold, is really insignificant to the multi-trillion dollar Treasury market," Giddis, head of fixed income capital markets at Raymond James, said on Sunday.

"If I had to wager, I would bet that this is part sanctions and part portfolio adjustment and little to do with a real market move," he added. "If this was China or Japan, then the story would be quite different, and so the muted market movement, or lack thereof, pretty much tells the story of the move."

Major foreign holders of U.S. debt accounted for $6.21 trillion of current U.S. debt, while the total public debt outstanding is $21.3 trillion as of July 26.

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