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Who misses the top 15 (QB edition) (1 Viewer)

Jedi Knight

Footballguy
This is just for fun.  Using our league's scoring by Points Per Game...NOT total points, these were the top 15 QB's in order:

1- Carson Wentz
2- Tom Brady
3- Deshaun Watson
4- Russell Wilson
5- Alex Smith
6- Ben Roethlisburger
7- Jared Goff
8- Drew Brees
9- Aaron Rodgers
10- Case Keenum
11- Mathew Stafford
12- Jimmy Garropolo
13- Phillip Rivers
14- Sam Bradford
15- Kirk Cousins

Now, historically and fairly consistently, only nine of the top 15 repeat the following year.  So who does not make it back this year?  Here's my take:

1- Wentz- Doesn't recover as fast as thought.  Usually takes a half season or so to mentally "get over it".
2- Watson- See above
3- A. Smith- No Nagy, new team
4- Tom Brady- Finally falls off the cliff
5- Case Keenum- New team
6- Sam Bradford- New team, made of glass, best target is at the end of his career.

 
Your question is confusing. You use PPG to set the baseline. Then you mention that 6 don’t repeat the following year, but that is based on end of year rankings for total points. 

Most of the people at any position that don’t repeat in total points fail to do so because they get hurt. 

So are asking which QB’s are most likely to get hurt?

 
WCO tree. Same one as Pederson. No one expects Walsh but he's from that line. 
I’m just saying.  People are acting like the bears are going to be the greatest show on the frozen tundra and the chiefs are going to fall apart.  

And Pederson wasn’t anointed anything until they won the super bowl.  Some people claimed he was the least qualified head coach in the league 

 
I’m just saying.  People are acting like the bears are going to be the greatest show on the frozen tundra and the chiefs are going to fall apart.  

And Pederson wasn’t anointed anything until they won the super bowl.  Some people claimed he was the least qualified head coach in the league 
Right but most from that tree have been successful. Reid, McCarthy, Gruden, Pederson and so on. So chances are Nagy is going to be better than most. 

 
Your question is confusing. You use PPG to set the baseline. Then you mention that 6 don’t repeat the following year, but that is based on end of year rankings for total points. 

Most of the people at any position that don’t repeat in total points fail to do so because they get hurt. 

So are asking which QB’s are most likely to get hurt?
PPG is what we use for ranking players in tiers for keepers.  I'm not asking who will get hurt, because there are a variety of reasons a player can fall out of the top 15- coaching changes, OL gets worse, suspension/benching, WR overhaul, etc...  But I went back as far as 2003 and it's pretty consistent that 6 of the top 15 will fail to repeat the following year.  Just curious on other's thoughts to see if I was overlooking anything and I like seeing other's angles of thought.  I was rushing out the door when I posted this, so I just jotted some quick notes of what I thought- first things that came to mind.

 
I love how Nagy is apparently the next bill Walsh 
No, not really.  I just saw that Alex Smith had his best year when he was OC- now Smith is in Washington- so I guess my real reason is that he is on a new team, new system, new receivers.  I can easily see him not repeating top 15 PPG.

 
Jedi Knight said:
1- Carson Wentz
2- Tom Brady
3- Deshaun Watson
4- Russell Wilson
5- Alex Smith
6- Ben Roethlisburger
7- Jared Goff
8- Drew Brees
9- Aaron Rodgers
10- Case Keenum
11- Mathew Stafford
12- Jimmy Garropolo
13- Phillip Rivers
14- Sam Bradford
15- Kirk Cousins
Andrew luck

Matt Ryan

Andy Dalton

Mariotta 

Carr 

Eli

Jameis 

Not sure who else I'm missing because of your sort order, but there's 7 qbs who could replace guys on your list without any injury.  

The middle tier guys are almost totally interchangeable.  Almost any of them could even deliver a surprise top 5 performance like Alex Smith did last year.  Luck just being healthy.  Ryan in year two of sark's system. Dalton without injuries to his top 3 receivers and some offensive line help.  Mariotta with an emerging receiver and moving away from exotic smash mouth.  Eli with obj engram Shepard and Barkley.  Carr with gruden, Bryant and jordy and a healthy Cooper.  Jameis with the knowledge he's on the hot seat and one of the most talented sets of receivers and tight ends in the NFL. Any of those guys could blow up.  And I didn't even mention second year guys like mahomes and trubisky. 

I'm in a long running ten team one qb league and you can make a good case for waiting until after the first backup qbs go off the board.  

 
Skeletore Eh said:
I love how Nagy is apparently the next bill Walsh 
I think people are liking the Bears personnel in a spread run-pass option offense. If done correctly, it changes the game.    

 
Jedi Knight said:
This is just for fun.  Using our league's scoring by Points Per Game...NOT total points, these were the top 15 QB's in order:

1- Carson Wentz
2- Tom Brady
3- Deshaun Watson
4- Russell Wilson
5- Alex Smith
6- Ben Roethlisburger
7- Jared Goff
8- Drew Brees
9- Aaron Rodgers
10- Case Keenum
11- Mathew Stafford
12- Jimmy Garropolo
13- Phillip Rivers
14- Sam Bradford
15- Kirk Cousins

Now, historically and fairly consistently, only nine of the top 15 repeat the following year.  So who does not make it back this year?  Here's my take:

1- Wilson - What he did last year was magic.  He has lost receivers, most of the defense, and nothing significant was done for the offensive line.  He doesn't have the people around him.  I think he is a prime candidate at risk.

2- A.Smith - Statistical aberration last year.  New team.  He can't drive the ball the way Cousins could.  He will probably be running more.  Although I do think Guice will help, I don't think he will come close. 

3- Jimmy Garropolo- He has played 6 games. The hype is over the top.  The defensive coordinators he will be facing have been scheming. To me, until he has a full season under his belt, it is too early to jump on the Garropolo band wagon.  

4 - Sam Bradford-  I think Josh Rosen is going to start week 1. I don't know if Bradford will see the field this year.

5 - Jared Goff- I think defensive coordinators will have had time to break down the Rams.  I don't think that you can "stop" the offense, but you can take away certain aspects.  I don't want to speculate.  But whatever the adjustment, it will fall on Goff to adjust his play.   I think he will have success, but I think this is going to be a break out year for QBs around the league.  I think we will see some name we have never seen in there before. 

Just my thoughts as of today.  Could change tomorrow.  

I would add Brady, but I think he can go to the short pass game and it will be hard to hit him.  As long as he has RBs to throw to and little WRs to go across the middle, he will be hard to stop.  But I agree, he is old as dirt. 

 
@Hairy Snowman

Interesting list.  I definitely think Wilson regresses from last year's stats but not sure he falls out of the top 15. Losing Richardson and Graham hurts a little but Baldwin probably had a down year in part because those guys contributed more, they added a running back who can catch, and they will need to pass more. 

Alex Smith should regress.  It would be surprising if he didn't. Same with Bradford.  

As a fan I like Jimmy g a lot,  he averaged over 300 yards a game and won every game but still didn't throw for many scores with a coach who likes to run so much he didn't use Julio in the red zone.  I'm not touching him at his current price. 

Goff should be better than last year.  I get that the d is better and teams might "figure him out", but

- Gurley' s receiving is less likely to regress than his rushing touchdowns

- woods was hurt for several games and in his first year playing with Goff 

- Watkins didn't even have preseason to prepare

- Cooks with an off season to prepare is at least a lateral move from Watkins

- Kupp year two

- young tight ends still improving

- Goff year 3 and McVay year 2

Consider that they had a week 8 bye. Before the bye, Goff had a pedestrian 9 to 4 td:int ratio.  After the bye it was 19:3. As Goff and McVay became more comfortable with each other, there was serious improvement. 

I feel like keenum and cousins are more likely to see that drop off than Goff and Wilson.  Not a massive drop, just enough to fall out of the top 15. Because the reality is that there are just more qbs putting up good passing numbers. 

 
@Boston Fred

" I definitely think Wilson regresses from last year's stats but not sure he falls out of the top 15. Losing Richardson and Graham hurts a little but Baldwin probably had a down year in part because those guys contributed more, they added a running back who can catch, and they will need to pass more."

Who does he pass to in the red zone? Both his big targets are gone. Not sure the RB helps.

"Goff should be better than last year."

I would think so also.  I was reaching.  The defense is improved on paper, but the back end speed has questions.  I think the Rams may play even more ball control to limit the exposure.  I also think Gurley probably shares more of the load this year.  Cooks is an upgrade from Watson IMO. Much bigger route tree.  If the Rams are winning, and shortening games, then Goff's passing numbers may not jump like they did last year. 

Just a thought.

Edit to add: I also believe we are about to see this rookie class of QBs take the league by storm this year.  I expect at least one to reach top 15 (I am betting on Josh Rosen or Josh Allen).  But I could see more.  I see an uptick in passing statistics league wide.        

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jedi Knight said:
This is just for fun.  Using our league's scoring by Points Per Game...NOT total points, these were the top 15 QB's in order:

1- Carson Wentz
2- Tom Brady
3- Deshaun Watson
4- Russell Wilson
5- Alex Smith
6- Ben Roethlisburger
7- Jared Goff
8- Drew Brees
9- Aaron Rodgers
10- Case Keenum
11- Mathew Stafford
12- Jimmy Garropolo
13- Phillip Rivers
14- Sam Bradford
15- Kirk Cousins

Now, historically and fairly consistently, only nine of the top 15 repeat the following year.  So who does not make it back this year?  Here's my take:

1- Wentz- Doesn't recover as fast as thought.  Usually takes a half season or so to mentally "get over it".
2- Watson- See above
3- A. Smith- No Nagy, new team
4- Tom Brady- Finally falls off the cliff
5- Case Keenum- New team
6- Sam Bradford- New team, made of glass, best target is at the end of his career.
Bradford only played 1 and a half games last year.  Putting him on this list because it is PPG really isn't meaningful.   Using PPG as an evaluation is ok but I am not sure it has much meaning for predicting who won't be on it this  year.  Using Bradford as an example, it is very possible that two or three QB's play less than 4 games and have a high PPG average because of it so it bumps some of these guys off the list.  Bradford is a prime example from last year. 

I just don't think this is a very meaningful exercise because PPG is really affected by small sample size and missed games that actually artificially bump up injured players potential. 

 
IMO, we can probably sort the teams into 3 tiers to figure things out. Basically, starting QB's will either fall in the top half or the bottom half of the league to get to a Top 16.

Teams with offenses that are likely to support a Top 15 QB (in no particular order):
NEP, LAR, PHI, NOS, PIT, ATL, LAC, GBP, DET, HOU

Teams with offenses or situations that are probably less likely to support a Top 15 QB:
NYJ, BUF, MIA, ARI, OAK, DEN, CHI, CLE, CIN, IND (without Luck), BAL

Teams somewhere in the middle:
WAS, CAR, SEA, KCC, SFO, TEN, TBB, NYG, MIN, DAL, JAC

IMO, that first list of 10 has a lot of QBs that barring something really weird happening should be in the Top 15. A lot of people have pointed to the changes in NE and age as a reason for Brady to slip, but he has proven it doesn't really matter who he is throwing to. Since it is a PPG list, him getting injured is less of a factor. If he gets hurt and misses time, he still would likely make the list. The only way he wouldn't is if NE goes to a ground and pound game and rely on the defense. If you watched the SB, that ain't happening.

The Rams scored a ton of points last year, and Gurley likely won't score that many TDs again. I suppose the risk is the Rams defense is so good that they opt to take the air out of the ball and sit on leads. That might be enough for Goff to fall from 12 in FBG scoring to below 16.

The Eagles look to be returning a team that scored a lot and let Blount leave. I still think they score a lot through the air. PIT still has a stacked offense. ATL had a fall from grace last year but added Ridley. I would put Ryan back into the Top 15.

Rivers is one of those guys that on a PPG basis usually makes the Top 15, so I would guess he sticks. Rodgers stays because he's a bad, bad man. Stafford sticks because he throws a lot, plays indoors, and when was he not a Top 15 guy in PPG? Watson potentially could fall out if he can't play the same coming back from injury.

In the SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE group . . .

Green had a super human season last year and is switching teams and systems. I would say he falls out. Newton and Wilson each have had some up and down seasons and have gotten a lot of fantasy points rushing the ball. If they rush less, they are at risk of falling out of the Top 15. A leg injury to either guy that prevents racking up rushing points would likely do the trick, so I would guess one of those two falls off the list.

Mahomes is a mostly green starter, so he could make the list. I think Jimmy G. will struggle more than people think, ans a slight down tick could easily have him just out of the Top 15. I am not sold that TEN wants to have a more vertical game, which keep Mariota out. Winston might come back from suspension with something to prove. He ranked in the Top 15 on a ppg basis last year, so breaking into the Top 15 on this list wouldn't take much doing.

Eli should have a better running game and an better OL, but he is still Eli. This might be his last chance to make this list, but I am still a little skeptical.

As for other guys falling off, I don't think Keenum makes it. DEN not the same situation as MIN, and I would be a little down on MIN this season anyway. Cousins might still be on the bubble. A strong defense and likely a better running game with Cook might limited how much Cousins has to throw the ball. And Bradford never should have counted on this list in the first place.

So I would pick Wilson, Smith, Keenum, Jimmy G, Bradford, and Cousins to fall off. If I had to add 6 in, I would pick Cam (not sure how he wasn't on the list to begin with), Winston, Mahomes, Luck (if he comes back), and that 15th spot could be just about anybody. If things click, I'll take a shot in the dark at Tyrod (even though I said the Browns were in the unlikely category).

 
Skeletore Eh said:
I’m just saying.  People are acting like the bears are going to be the greatest show on the frozen tundra and the chiefs are going to fall apart.  

And Pederson wasn’t anointed anything until they won the super bowl.  Some people claimed he was the least qualified head coach in the league 


I think people are liking the Bears personnel in a spread run-pass option offense. If done correctly, it changes the game.    
This. Many of us liked Cohen's talent last year. Now he has a coach who had success with a somewhat comparable player. Robinson, Burton, Shaheen, etc. The team has a lot more talent than last year, a better coach, and the QB is in his second year. There's plenty of reason for optimism. It might not pan out, but in the surface they look like they could be this year's Rams (offense).

 

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