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eoMMan

Duck Boat Accident

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16 hours ago, GroveDiesel said:

Ugh. 11 members of one family were on the boat. 9 of them didn't make it.

It's being reported here this morning they were an Indianapolis family. They interviewed a surviving family member as she wanted to report the boat captain had told them not to worry about life jackets as they wouldn't need them. She lost her husband, her children, a brother and sister in law. Only her and a nephew survived.

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14 minutes ago, boilerdave said:

It's being reported here this morning they were an Indianapolis family. They interviewed a surviving family member as she wanted to report the boat captain had told them not to worry about life jackets as they wouldn't need them. She lost her husband, her children, a brother and sister in law. Only her and a nephew survived.

Ugh, that’s terrible on top of heading out in that weather to start. 

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1 hour ago, boilerdave said:

It's being reported here this morning they were an Indianapolis family. They interviewed a surviving family member as she wanted to report the boat captain had told them not to worry about life jackets as they wouldn't need them. She lost her husband, her children, a brother and sister in law. Only her and a nephew survived.

Crushing.  

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2 hours ago, boilerdave said:

It's being reported here this morning they were an Indianapolis family. They interviewed a surviving family member as she wanted to report the boat captain had told them not to worry about life jackets as they wouldn't need them. She lost her husband, her children, a brother and sister in law. Only her and a nephew survived.

I saw that earlier.  Just beyond awful.  

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On 7/20/2018 at 9:31 AM, [icon] said:

Duck boats are repurposed old military ambphibious vehicles very popular with tour groups. You drive thru town then head out onto the water. They use them in Red Sox parades and are very popular duck boat tours in town there and many other towns near water. 

The go on the Charles but no way would I go on a lake with one

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2 hours ago, boilerdave said:

It's being reported here this morning they were an Indianapolis family. They interviewed a surviving family member as she wanted to report the boat captain had told them not to worry about life jackets as they wouldn't need them. She lost her husband, her children, a brother and sister in law. Only her and a nephew survived.

I can't even begin to wrap my mind around a loss of that magnitude.  So incredibly sad.

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This happened on the regular lake I goto 3 times a year and have my boat on.  I've boated around these vessels a few times.   

This was the worst storm I've ever seen on table rock lake in the 35 years I've been going there.   I've never seen waves like that and probably won't anytime soon.

Tragic.   Truly the perfect storm at the worst time.

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18 hours ago, Beef Ravioli said:

I just read that this was the companies first accident in 40 years. 

Actually there has been a few. I think this is the worst one. 

I've been on one in Seattle. It's a pretty clunky vehicle. There were no window coverings. We had to wear life vests on our tour.

They've had maintenance problems before so I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of it with the weather. 

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34 minutes ago, CurlyNight said:

Actually there has been a few. I think this is the worst one. 

I've been on one in Seattle. It's a pretty clunky vehicle. There were no window coverings. We had to wear life vests on our tour.

They've had maintenance problems before so I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of it with the weather. 

The way I understood it, the company at Table Rock Lake. Their first accident in 40 years. 

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3 hours ago, WhatDoIKnow said:

:( I can't imagine.

Life jackets should have at least been in hand when the wind and waves really picked up.  Do we know if the captain survived?

He did not.  Read an article yesterday where they talked to his wife/widow. Sounded like a good man, just a terrible situation. 

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3 hours ago, WhatDoIKnow said:

:( I can't imagine.

Life jackets should have at least been in hand when the wind and waves really picked up.  Do we know if the captain survived?

The driver of the boat died.  Not sure if that was the captain or not.

 

2 hours ago, Dentist said:

This was the worst storm I've ever seen on table rock lake in the 35 years I've been going there.   I've never seen waves like that and probably won't anytime soon.

Amazing given the size of the lake - it just isn't that big.  Not that far from shore when it went down, either.

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6 hours ago, boilerdave said:

It's being reported here this morning they were an Indianapolis family. They interviewed a surviving family member as she wanted to report the boat captain had told them not to worry about life jackets as they wouldn't need them. She lost her husband, her children, a brother and sister in law. Only her and a nephew survived.

Instructed not to wear the life jacket is awful news! When were they instructed?  At their departure or when things started getting bad? 

Are the jackets accessible during the ride? In the ceiling above each seat or under each seat? I would think that the storm would have caused people to put on their jackets.

Edited by Beef Ravioli

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6 minutes ago, Beef Ravioli said:

Instructed not to wear the life jacket is awful news! When were they instructed?  At their departure or when things started getting bad? 

Are the jackets accessible during the ride? In the ceiling above each seat or under each seat? I would think that the storm would have caused people to put on their jackets.

I've read some devil's advocate talk that the life vests might not have helped and may have caused more deaths. Apparently a similar accident in the past where everyone had vests on caused more problems. With the tight room inside the boat, everyone wearing the bulky vests would have made it difficult for anyone to get out (which is why inflatable vests shouldn't be inflated until after you're out). And with the closed top, people could float to the ceiling and drown there, unable to get out through another passage below or to the sides. 

I read it's like trying to guess what accident you're going to have as to whether to put on the vest or not. If you know the boat is going to go down in one certain way, everyone should wear vests. But if it goes down another way, that decision could kill everyone. 

Apparently with these boats it's not a given that vests are the best decision. 

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22 hours ago, Rhythmdoctor said:

Still can’t wrap my head around the fact that these death vessels are from WWII and obviously NOT used by the military since then, yet were used for family tours with a history of fatalities. 

I was just going to ask if all of these duck boats are 70 year old decommissioned war vessels. They don't build new ones these days right? 

I rode one on a tour of the Wisconsin Dells about 15 years ago, and didn't know how dangerous they could be.

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20 hours ago, The Future Champs said:

Should be banned outright.   Hopefully the insurers will put them out of business.

If it's true that the operator told the passengers they don't need life vests, that could be enough negligence for the insurance carrier to decline a liability claim. If the boat company doesn't have professional liability insurance and their general liability claim is denied or limits are exhausted, they probably will go out of business.

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21 hours ago, Rhythmdoctor said:

Never seen them here in Chicago 

Unknown in New Orleans, as well.

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1 hour ago, Doug B said:

Unknown in New Orleans, as well.

There's only 4 or 5 cities in the nation that have these duck rides. 

I think they should ban them. They are decades old. It's like driving a car from the 40s. If it's in good condition, practically everything has been replaced. 

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3 hours ago, EYLive said:

If it's true that the operator told the passengers they don't need life vests, that could be enough negligence for the insurance carrier to decline a liability claim.

Likely will be tough to prove unless someone has a video that survived the water.

If claims get high enough, eventually insurance companies would stop insuring them. Apparently they aren't there yet.

 

Edit to add: Some rather damning safety inspection facts...

Edited by DallasDMac

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1 hour ago, CurlyNight said:

There's only 4 or 5 cities in the nation that have these duck rides. 

I think they should ban them. They are decades old. It's like driving a car from the 40s. If it's in good condition, practically everything has been replaced. 

I don't know the exact number but there's gotta be more than 4 or 5. They are all over the US.

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I can't fathom the faith this woman has saying God saved her and angels protected her after she lost her whole family. I'd wish I died with them. I hope she finds peace. Poor woman

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16 minutes ago, eoMMan said:

I don't know the exact number but there's gotta be more than 4 or 5. They are all over the US.

A lot of them shutdown after the philly accident. I know the one in Cincinnati did. 

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9 minutes ago, eoMMan said:

:shrug:

Here's 11 of them plus I know Miami has one or two still going.

https://m.viator.com/USA-tours/Duck-Tours/d77-g3-c76

I could probably find just as many or more that have shut down since the Philly accident. Without even searching Philly, Cincy, and SF come to mind.   

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5 minutes ago, Politician Spock said:

I could probably find just as many or more that have shut down since the Philly accident. Without even searching Philly, Cincy, and SF come to mind.   

Ok. My point was simply that there were quite a bit more than "4 or 5" operating.

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1 minute ago, eoMMan said:

Ok. My point was simply that there were quite a bit more than "4 or 5" operating.

I'll be surprised if there are still 4 or 5 operating a year or two from now. 

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13 hours ago, CurlyNight said:

There's only 4 or 5 cities in the nation that have these duck rides. 

I think they should ban them. They are decades old. It's like driving a car from the 40s. If it's in good condition, practically everything has been replaced. 

Massive overreaction.

There are things with far worse safety records that are still legal. Even this company shows that these things arent the death traps they are being described as. They were completely negligent and had a 73 year old man as one of the crew. Yet even though they are complete morons this was still their first incident in 40 years. 

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17 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Massive overreaction.

There are things with far worse safety records that are still legal. Even this company shows that these things arent the death traps they are being described as. They were completely negligent and had a 73 year old man as one of the crew. Yet even though they are complete morons this was still their first incident in 40 years. 

Yes, they are. Flat-bottom crafts are accidents waiting to happen. Wave your hand in the water and they want to tip. Pontoons and water taxis are the same. They are not safe outside of a bathtub. 

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30 minutes ago, Uruk-Hai said:

 

51 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Massive overreaction.

There are things with far worse safety records that are still legal. Even this company shows that these things arent the death traps they are being described as. They were completely negligent and had a 73 year old man as one of the crew. Yet even though they are complete morons this was still their first incident in 40 years. 

Yes, they are. Flat-bottom crafts are accidents waiting to happen. Wave your hand in the water and they want to tip. Pontoons and water taxis are the same. They are not safe outside of a bathtub. 

 

Why would pontoons not be safe? Why are you bringing them into this discussion? Have you ever ridden on a pontoon?

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Just now, Johnny Rock said:

Why would pontoons not be safe? Why are you bringing them into this discussion? Have you ever ridden on a pontoon?

I owned and piloted one for years. If you have a specific question about them, just ask and I'll do my best to make it understood.

To my larger point, I was talking about any flat-bottomed craft.

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1 hour ago, Uruk-Hai said:

I owned and piloted one for years. If you have a specific question about them, just ask and I'll do my best to make it understood.

To my larger point, I was talking about any flat-bottomed craft.

I have no questions. I’m already familiar with pontoons too although I never owned one. I’m just not understanding the comparison to duck boats and you did nothing to explain your point. 

Pontoons sit on top of the water while these people were deep in the water plowing through. Pontoons are not susceptible to swamping/flooding and are easily escapable for passengers.

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24 minutes ago, Daywalker said:

Bizarre to take 1 and a 2-year-old old on one of these tours.  On many levels.

Nowadays any major tourist site is full of people hauling too young kids everywhere.  

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26 minutes ago, Daywalker said:

Bizarre to take 1 and a 2-year-old old on one of these tours.  On many levels.

Happens everyday at Disney. 

 Crying 2-3-4-5-6-7 year old's being dragged around in 95 degree heat put on rides "You will have a good time with all the $$$ we have spent"   when they would much rather be at the kiddie pool back at the hotel.

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On 7/21/2018 at 5:53 PM, CurlyNight said:

There's only 4 or 5 cities in the nation that have these duck rides. 

I think they should ban them. They are decades old. 

Shocker!  God help you if you ever move out of California... :lol: 

 

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3 hours ago, Daywalker said:

Bizarre to take 1 and a 2-year-old old on one of these tours.  On many levels.

Not that I have any desire to go on one these tours, but if I did, and I was vacationing with the whole family, why would it be bizarre to bring a small child along? :confused:

 

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7 hours ago, the moops said:

Not that I have any desire to go on one these tours, but if I did, and I was vacationing with the whole family, why would it be bizarre to bring a small child along? :confused:

 

Exactly. I’m guessing the folks commenting in here haven’t actually been on one, because it’s generally the most calm/relaxing experience in town. 

This company had been running tons of tours a day for 40 years and this is their first incident in something like a quarter million outings, if I’m reading correct. AND, it wasn’t a mechanical failure but an error in judgment (going out as storm came in) combined with a freak increase in storm intensity. 

Look into protocol by the operators and set parameters for not going out on the water outside certain conditions... but that’s all that’s needed here.

The Pearl clutchers will move on to the next thing to get outraged about soon enough...

Edited by [icon]
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23 hours ago, Uruk-Hai said:

Yes, they are. Flat-bottom crafts are accidents waiting to happen. Wave your hand in the water and they want to tip. Pontoons and water taxis are the same. They are not safe outside of a bathtub. 

I am a bit biased being from wisconsin, but these things are everywhere in the Dells in the summer. You cant go a mile without seeing one. In the water, out of the water probably hundreds if times each day. 

These things were built to transport troops and supplies on bodies of water a lot bigger than your average inland lake. They obviously dont just flip over. In fact even watching the video of this it seems it didnt tip over until it was fully submerged if it even tipped at all. It landed on the floor wheels down and all the safety talk seems focused on the canopy which implies they sink upright. 

 

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37 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

I am a bit biased being from wisconsin, but these things are everywhere in the Dells in the summer. You cant go a mile without seeing one. In the water, out of the water probably hundreds if times each day. 

These things were built to transport troops and supplies on bodies of water a lot bigger than your average inland lake. They obviously dont just flip over. In fact even watching the video of this it seems it didnt tip over until it was fully submerged if it even tipped at all. It landed on the floor wheels down and all the safety talk seems focused on the canopy which implies they sink upright. 

 

From reading all the articles it would seem this was not developed to move people, but gear, save the one driver and 1-2 crew to operate.  

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57 minutes ago, [icon] said:

 

Exactly. I’m guessing the folks commenting in here haven’t actually been on one, because it’s generally the most calm/relaxing experience in town. 

This company had been running tons of tours a day for 40 years and this is their first incident in something like a quarter million outings, if I’m reading correct. AND, it wasn’t a mechanical failure but an error in judgment (going out as storm came in) combined with a freak increase in storm intensity. 

Look into protocol by the operators and set parameters for not going out on the water outside certain conditions... but that’s all that’s needed here.

The Pearl clutchers will move on to the next thing to get outraged about soon enough...

I agree that the outrage shouldn't directed so much towards the boat itself.  It definitely should be more about the decision to head out in a storm.  The news said the wind speeds during the storm were close to a category 1 hurricane.

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3 minutes ago, culdeus said:

From reading all the articles it would seem this was not developed to move people, but gear, save the one driver and 1-2 crew to operate.  

Plenty of photos from WW2 that show them loaded with troops. Payload capacity was 5000 pounds. 

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Quote

 

But those operations came at a deadly cost. The vehicles proved to be unseaworthy in trials while carrying heavy loads, historian Joseph Balkoski wrote in “Beyond the Beachhead.” Several DUKWs sank after unloading off tank landing ships, either felled by enemy fire or large waves, taken under by the weight of artillery guns and shells.

Its drawbacks also appeared in Sicily. The vehicles got stuck in mud and were difficult to unload. They cruised at about 45 mph on land, but only about 5 mph in the water. And when they rallied to drop off supplies, their bulky frame caused traffic jams on narrow roads.

 

WaPo

- There was a lot of dangerous stuff going on in WW2 which was necessitated by wartime.

These were not Giggins craft btw. Higgins boats were fantastic, and IIRC they did not have these problems.

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There was an amphibious car rally at Grand Lake Colorado, was it two years ago.  Maybe a dozen or more Amphicar 770's, an amphibious car from the 1960's.   I had seen them over the years going back to my boyhood. Anyhow, I was out kayaking.  The winds were high and the lake busy.  Lots of chop, not a good day for kayaking, but the fish were biting so I was out there.  One of these cars got swamped by the high wave action.  Water is definitely what they do second best.  Same, I believe, with the Ducks which were ubiquitous from my childhood living not too far from the Wisconsin Dells where these things are a common attraction.

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13 hours ago, Daywalker said:

Bizarre to take 1 and a 2-year-old old on one of these tours.  On many levels.

Why is it bizarre?  I haven't done Duck, but I took my 2 year old on a harbor cruise while on vacation a couple of weeks ago. He loved it, and was just telling his grandma about his "boat ride" yesterday.

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21 minutes ago, Don Quixote said:

Why is it bizarre?  I haven't done Duck, but I took my 2 year old on a harbor cruise while on vacation a couple of weeks ago. He loved it, and was just telling his grandma about his "boat ride" yesterday.

I assume he didn't know how to swim being 2 years old.  Was he wearing a life jacket the whole time?

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1 hour ago, eoMMan said:

I assume he didn't know how to swim being 2 years old.  Was he wearing a life jacket the whole time?

No. But he wasn't swimming - like I said, he was on a boat.

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On 7/21/2018 at 3:53 PM, CurlyNight said:

There's only 4 or 5 cities in the nation that have these duck rides. 

I think they should ban them. They are decades old. It's like driving a car from the 40s. If it's in good condition, practically everything has been replaced. 

This is not accurate.   For this company, yes...but similar amphibious boat rides are operated all over the place.   Boston, Washington DC, San Diego, San Francisco, Miami, Chatanooga, Oahu, Wisconsin Dells, Seattle, Branson...

Edited by -fish-
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