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timschochet

Classic Album Discussion Thread: The Kinks-Lola Versus Powerman and the Moneygoround, Pt. 1

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46 minutes ago, Bull Dozier said:

This is probably sacrilege for a Minnesotan, but I never enjoyed Prince. I find him extremely overrated and don't get the worship. 

:hifive:

Purple Rain is the only album worth listening to from Prince.

But even that is overshadowed by the breathless adoration of an otherwise mediocre catalog. And the deification and exploitation of the man in this city over two years removed from his death is nauseating.

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Top 40 radio in the early 70s was relatively integrated.  Stations could play Marvin Gaye and the Rolling Stones back to back.  This changed a lot during the decade--there were still pop stations but the fragmentation of the music scene led to segregation of the radio dial into White Rock and Black Soul stations.  This was exacerbated by the rise of Disco.

MTV briefly brought back an integrated playlist in the 80s but this was re-establishing the pop world order.  You could hear Prince on MTV and top 40 stations but he wasn't getting airplay on classic rock and AOR formats in 1984.  To be fair, REM and U2 weren't either.

I guess Purple Rain is the classicrockiest album Prince ever released but he was too idiosyncratic an artist to work within genre boundaries.

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2 minutes ago, Eephus said:

Top 40 radio in the early 70s was relatively integrated.  Stations could play Marvin Gaye and the Rolling Stones back to back.  This changed a lot during the decade--there were still pop stations but the fragmentation of the music scene led to segregation of the radio dial into White Rock and Black Soul stations.  This was exacerbated by the rise of Disco.

MTV briefly brought back an integrated playlist in the 80s but this was re-establishing the pop world order.  You could hear Prince on MTV and top 40 stations but he wasn't getting airplay on classic rock and AOR formats in 1984.  To be fair, REM and U2 weren't either.

I guess Purple Rain is the classicrockiest album Prince ever released but he was too idiosyncratic an artist to work within genre boundaries.

And there's another racial aspect to Prince's uneven recording career. Great comedy & recorded music happen best as a result of collaboration. For the first 40-50 years  when black artists recorded for wide audience, record producers and A&R people were white. Great synthesis can come (Wikkit Pikkit did some of his best work showing ofay producers why he didn't need em) from these polar relationships, but it is generally not well-sustained. Except when Stevie Wonder became so enamored of the electronic musicians Margoleff & Cecil that he established a long production relationship with them and produced arguably the greatest 5-album run an artist ever has, white producers havent shared a vision thing nor worked on the shaping of sound, effect & presentation with black artists and black artists have resented & resisted white people telling them what to do. "Let's get it down and get outta here" are not optimal production conditions.Especially with the awful relationships Prince had with his labels, he werent consulting nobody about his sound or his flow and, as i've gone on&on with about other "unrefined" artists like Sufjan Stevens & Maria McKee, posterity suffers the result.

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21 hours ago, rustycolts said:

I just hope to see some discussion on music by bands like Cream,Mountain,ELP,Allman Brothers.  I mean those are great bands that influenced  a lot of the music today.  Plus some bands that maybe are not considered great but I rocked to like Rare Earth, Climax Blues Band, Spooky Tooth.

Rarely hear anyone tout Mountain, but Nantucket Sleigh Ride was awesome

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19 hours ago, Joe Mammy said:

Kansas kicks! 

For me the debut album Masque was the best with "Icarus (Born on Wings of Steel)" my fav song. There was not much rock violin out other than CDB and Jean Luc Ponty, Kansas had a unique sound.

I've seen 'em live many times over the years with the first time in '77 with Styx in Lakeland, FL. Always a good show.

David LaFlamme played some on Its a Beautiful Day.  Papa John Creech was featured on the Hot Tuna Album Burgers.  Me, I always loved Vassar Clemmons, but that's venturing out of Rock to Blue Grass.

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9 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Rarely hear anyone tout Mountain, but Nantucket Sleigh Ride was awesome

Jack Bruce's "Theme For An Imaginary Western" has always been on my short list of all-time favorite songs.

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2 hours ago, zamboni said:

Musical taste is always subjective, but I wouldn't say he's overrated as a musician by any stretch.

I don't know anything about playing the guitar other than I've tried and can't do it. So, I can't criticize him from a technical standpoint. 

 

However, a lot of guitarist have made me feel something from their playing, be it Clapton, Hendrix, Page, Slash, McCready and many others. I've never heard a Prince lick and been moved or even thought "wow, that kicks ###." 

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11 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

And there's another racial aspect to Prince's uneven recording career. Great comedy & recorded music happen best as a result of collaboration. For the first 40-50 years  when black artists recorded for wide audience, record producers and A&R people were white. Great synthesis can come (Wikkit Pikkit did some of his best work showing ofay producers why he didn't need em) from these polar relationships, but it is generally not well-sustained. Except when Stevie Wonder became so enamored of the electronic musicians Margoleff & Cecil that he established a long production relationship with them and produced arguably the greatest 5-album run an artist ever has, white producers havent shared a vision thing nor worked on the shaping of sound, effect & presentation with black artists and black artists have resented & resisted white people telling them what to do. "Let's get it down and get outta here" are not optimal production conditions.Especially with the awful relationships Prince had with his labels, he werent consulting nobody about his sound or his flow and, as i've gone on&on with about other "unrefined" artists like Sufjan Stevens & Maria McKee, posterity suffers the result.

Another factor that damaged Prince's mid-to-late career was his inability to incorporate hip hop culture into his music.  Rap pushed Prince off his perch in the late 80s and early 90s.  He responded with the diss track "Dead On It" from the Black Album which sounds worse today than it did at the time. 

Prince presumably recognized his own rapping limitations enough to hire a rapper when he formed the New Power Generation.  Tony M's skills were better than Prince's but he wasn't great and his raps were usually limited to a verse or two in the middle of a song.  I'm sure most top rappers in the 90s would have flown to MSP in an instant to work with Prince but the Artist seemed unwilling to share the spotlight.  Prince's 21st century records did a better job with rap but he was a cult artist by then.

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3 minutes ago, zamboni said:

Jack Bruce's "Theme For An Imaginary Western" has always been on my short list of all-time favorite songs.

Had to love Felix Pappalardi, played with Mountain, produced Cream and had un-credited tracks, hung with King Crimson, and appeared on at least one Hot Tuna Album I can think of.

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10 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:
19 hours ago, Joe Mammy said:

Kansas kicks! 

For me the debut album Masque was the best with "Icarus (Born on Wings of Steel)" my fav song. There was not much rock violin out other than CDB and Jean Luc Ponty, Kansas had a unique sound.

I've seen 'em live many times over the years with the first time in '77 with Styx in Lakeland, FL. Always a good show.

David LaFlamme played some on Its a Beautiful Day.  Papa John Creech was featured on the Hot Tuna Album Burgers.  Me, I always loved Vassar Clemmons, but that's venturing out of Rock to Blue Grass.

Eddie Jobson played violin with Roxy Music and prog supergroup UK.   Billy Currie played violin quite a bit on early records by Ultravox! but moved almost exclusively to synths by the time they reached their commercial peak with Midge Ure replacing John Foxx.

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1 hour ago, zamboni said:

Jack Bruce's "Theme For An Imaginary Western" has always been on my short list of all-time favorite songs.

Closest to making my head explode a band ever has. Mountain was right up there with Deep Purple volumewise, but i once had the bad luck to see them play in a college field house with corrugated tin walls. Their 135 db load bounced off all three walls and therefore every note hit me like Joe Pesci getting done in in Casino. Great band though - perhaps the most underrated of all time.

Edited by wikkidpissah
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8 minutes ago, Bull Dozier said:

I don't know anything about playing the guitar other than I've tried and can't do it. So, I can't criticize him from a technical standpoint. 

 

However, a lot of guitarist have made me feel something from their playing, be it Clapton, Hendrix, Page, Slash, McCready and many others. I've never heard a Prince lick and been moved or even thought "wow, that kicks ###." 

Felt the same way until I saw one of his performances on SNL.  I can't find it now, though.

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32 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Rarely hear anyone tout Mountain, but Nantucket Sleigh Ride was awesome

I always liked Mountain.  I guess most people recognize Mississippi Queen.  West was and is a great guitarist.  Pappalardi was an outstanding producer.  After Mountain broke up they reformed as West,Bruce and Laing.  West on lead and Jack Bruce on Bass what a combination.

Edited by rustycolts

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1 hour ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

King Crimson, Court of the Crimson King.

Honorable mention to any album cover done by Roger Dean.

 

Also a big fan of the covers for Camel, Moon Madness and Mirage.  I also liked the art work on Babe Ruth, First Base.

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders

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24 minutes ago, Bull Dozier said:

I don't know anything about playing the guitar other than I've tried and can't do it. So, I can't criticize him from a technical standpoint.

However, a lot of guitarist have made me feel something from their playing, be it Clapton, Hendrix, Page, Slash, McCready and many others. I've never heard a Prince lick and been moved or even thought "wow, that kicks ###." 

Here are two performances.

1) George Harrison's Enshrinement into RRHOF - While My Guitar Gently Weeps. If you have to go to the Prince solo, jump forward to about 3:15-3:20 and watch until the end.
2) Superbowl XLI - Documentary - Performance (Video not that great)

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3 hours ago, timschochet said:

Good morning. As mentioned yesterday, I have decided to expand the discussion to a review of classic albums of the past, not limited to AOR and classic rock: 

Prince & The Revolution- Purple Rain (1984) 

Side One

Let’s Go Crazy

Take Me With U

The Beautiful Ones

Computer Blue

Darling Nikki

Side Two

When Doves Cry

I Would Die For U

Baby I’m a Star

Purple Rain

This is an extraordinary album which changed my appreciation of pop music. Prior to hearing this I generally ignored top 40, preferring either punk, certain New Wave bands, or AOR. I was stunned and blown away by the sheer brilliance here, the complexities of the melodies, the brazen sexuality in s song like “Darling Nikki”, etc. it was like being sent to another universe. Favorite song: “Take Me With U”. 

I THINK IT WAS IN '85, LIKE,
                    WHEN ALL THAT ANDROGYNOUS ####WAS GOING ON,  AND WHAT WAS WILD WAS THAT THE GUY WHO LOOKEDTHE MOST LIKE A #####
                    WAS GETTING ALL THE WOMEN.   EVEN I HAD IT--THE JERRY CURL WAS COMING OUT,                    AND I HAD MY #### SLICKEDTO THE SIDE AND ALL THAT.
                    IF YOU WEARING BAGGY #### NOWAND YOU ACTING HARD,                    IF YOU FROM L.A.,
                    YOU MOTHER####ERS WAS WEARINGSOME STRANGE ####.                    WE IN THE CLUB.
                    WE GETTING OUR GROOVE ON,SHAKING IT UP,                    AND PRINCE CAME IN THERE.
                    THAT'S WHEN PURPLE RAIN CAME OUT,                    AND PRINCE WAS THE ####,YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING?
                    PRINCE HAD ON, LIKE, A--  IT WAS LIKEA ZORRO-TYPE OUTFIT.
                    IT HAD THE RUFFLESTHAT COME DOWN THE FRONT.                    HE HAD THE BIG PERMFLUFFED OUT AND ALL THAT.
                    AND THE MUSTACHE, YOU KNOW,JUST DRAWN ON HIS FACE.                    AND IT LOOKED LIKE SOMETHINGTHAT A FIGURE SKATER WOULD WEAR,
                    YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING?                    AND HE WASWITH HIS WHOLE CREW,
                    AND HE HAD THIS OTHER CATNAMED MICKEY FREE,                    AND MICKEY FREE WAS, LIKE,THE NEW CAT IN SHALAMAR
                    THAT,WHEN HE JOINED THE GROUP,                    I HEARD MAD CATS, LIKE,
                    "YO, SHALAMAR GOTTHIS NEW GIRL IN THERE.
                    MAN, THAT ##### FINELIKE A MOTHER####ER."
                    THEY WAS TALKING ABOUTMICKEY FREE, OKAY?
                    MICKEY FREE IS NOT A GIRL,ALL RIGHT?
                    THEY CAME OVERWHERE WE WAS AT.
                    PRINCE STARTED TALKINGTO MY BROTHER.                    - HELLO, EDDIE MURPHY.
                    - PRINCE, WHAT'S UP?                    - I'M A BIG FANOF YOUR COMEDIES.
                    - OOH, THAT'S HOT, PRINCE.
                    - WOULD YOU LIKETO COME TO MY HOUSE
                    AND LISTENTO SOME MUSIC?
                    - OOH, THAT'S COOL.                    FRUITY, GET THE CAR.
                    - ASSEMBLE YOUR CREW.
                    I'LL BE OUTSIDE.
                    - WE WENT UP THERE.                    WE GET THERE.HE PUTS THE TRACKS ON.
                    THE TRACKS ARE SLAMMING,YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?                    AND WE'RE LISTENINGTO THE MUSIC AND EVERYTHING.
                    GROOVING AT THE CRIB.                    HE HAD GIRLS OVER THERE.                    HE HAD A NICE ENVIRONMENT.IT WAS TIGHT.
                    - THIS BORES ME.                    IS ANYONE UPFOR A GAME OF BASKETBALL?                    - [laughs]
                    - HOW ABOUTYOU AND YOUR FRIENDS                    VERSUS MEAND THE REVOLUTION?                    - [laughs]                   

SO I WAS LIKE, "THIS #####MUST BE           JOKING, MAN."
                    I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE'S GOINGWITH THIS AND ####.
                    BUT HE WAS DEAD SERIOUS.
                    HE HAD HIS, UH,HELPER OR WHATEVER
                    GO AND GET SOME, LIKE,SHORTS AND SNEAKERS
                    AND GAVE THEM TO US.
                    AND LAUGHING, I'M LIKE,
                    "THIS IS GONNA BE SOMEFUNNY-### ####."
                    SO THEY COME OUT, RIGHT?
                    AND I LOOK AT THEM,AND, UM,
                    THEY STILL GOT ON THE SAME ####THEY WAS WEARING AT THE CLUB.
                    IT WAS WILD, AND I WAS LIKE,
                    "I KNOW THEY AIN'T THINKINGABOUT PLAYING BALL IN THAT,"
                    BUT THEY WERE.
                    I SAID, "HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT?"
                    YOU KNOW WHAT WE'REGONNA CALL THIS?
                    THE SHIRTSAGAINST THE BLOUSES.
                    [laughter]
                    AND WHEN I SAID THAT,THIS LOOK CAME ON HIS FACE.
                    HE ICE GRILLED ME.
                    AND I'M LOOKING BACK AT HIM,THINKING TO MYSELF,
                    YOU KNOW,"WHAT ARE YOU ANGRY ABOUT?
                    "I MEAN, YOU KNOW WHEREYOU GOT THAT SHIRT FROM,
                    AND IT DAMN SURE WASN'TTHE MEN'S DEPARTMENT."
                    I MEAN, I KIND OFLEARNED SOMETHING THAT DAY:
                    DON'T NEVER JUDGEA BOOK BY ITS COVER.
                    THIS CAT COULD BALL, MAN.
                    - PLAY BALL.
                    HE WAS CROSSING CATS LIKE ICE.
                    CROSSED ME UP.
                    MADE MY KNEESSLAM TOGETHER.
                    HE WAS GETTING REBOUNDSLIKE CHARLES BARKLEY.
                    SNATCHING IT DOWN!
                    - SHOOT THE "J."
                    SHOOT IT!
                    LET'S RUN A PLAY.COMPUTER BLUE.
                    DARLING PICKY.
                    OWW!
                    - THEY WAS KIND OF SETTINGTHESE FRUITY PICKS, MAN,
                    YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING?
                    LIKE, YOU'D BETRYING TO CHECK PRINCE,
                    AND THEN YOU GO THIS CATSTANDING BEHIND YOU,
                    AND HE'S GETTING CLOSE TO YOU,
                    AND HIS HANDSIS OUT LIKE THIS.
                    YOU DON'T REALLY WANTTO BE BENT OVER
                    IN FRONT OF A CAT LIKE THAT,YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING?
                    PRINCE WAS INCREDIBLE!
                    PRINCE, YOU GOT A TOWEL, MAN?
                    IT'S KIND OF HOTOUT HERE, MAN.
                    - WHY DON'T YOU PURIFYYOURSELF IN THE WATERS
                    OF LAKE MINNETONKA.
                    GOOD.
                    IN YOUR FACE,CHARLIE MURPHY.
                    GOOD.
                    GOOD HUSTLE.[slap]
                    - YO, MAN,I'M NOT ON YOUR TEAM.
                    - I MEAN, IT WASN'T EVENLIKE IT WAS CLOSE.
                    IT WAS A LANDSLIDE VICTORY.
                    - GAME.
                    BLOUSES.
                    - I WAS THERE.I SEEN IT.
                    YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME?
                    YOU THINKI'M MAKING IT UP?
                    YOU THINK I'M TRYING TO,UH, YOU KNOW,
                    ENHANCE THE STORYBECAUSE I'M INVOLVED?
                    OR TRYING TO GIVE MYSELFAN EXCUSE FOR LOSING
                    BECAUSE I'M TELLING YOUA STORY ABOUT PRINCE?
                    I DARE YOU TO CHALLENGE PRINCETO A GAME OF BALL ONE-ON-ONE.
                    CHALLENGE HIM!
                    A'IGHT?
                    AND MAKE SURE YOUR PEOPLEIS THERE TO SEE THE GAME.
                    'CAUSE YOU MIGHT GETEMBARRASSED.
                    TRUST ME.
                    - ALL RIGHT, HE BEATYOU IN BASKETBALL,
                    AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED?
                    - AFTER IT WAS ALL OVER,
                    HE TOOK US IN THE HOUSEAND SERVED US PANCAKES.
                    PANCAKES.
                    WELL,I GOT TO ADMIT, UM,
                    IT WAS A GOOD GAME.
                    - I WISH I COULD SAYTHE SAME FOR YOU
                    AND YOUR CREW OF FLUNKIES.
                    DO YOU GUYSWANT SOME GRAPES?
 

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52 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Had to love Felix Pappalardi, played with Mountain, produced Cream and had un-credited tracks, hung with King Crimson, and appeared on at least one Hot Tuna Album I can think of.

His choice of musician buddies was much better than his choice of a spouse. :(

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15 minutes ago, Mr. Ected said:

 

 

Here are two performances.

1) George Harrison's Enshrinement into RRHOF - While My Guitar Gently Weeps. If you have to go to the Prince solo, jump forward to about 3:15-3:20 and watch until the end.
 

Beat me to it.

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21 minutes ago, Mr. Ected said:

 

 

Here are two performances.

1) George Harrison's Enshrinement into RRHOF - While My Guitar Gently Weeps. If you have to go to the Prince solo, jump forward to about 3:15-3:20 and watch until the end.
2) Superbowl XLI - Documentary - Performance (Video not that great)

I'm going to start off this post with two comments. First, I am acknowledging he has skill. My critique is that his own songs don't move me. 

Second, I'll admit bias, and that if I saw McCready solo like that in person, is probably gush and say it was awesome. 

That said, watching the first video reminded me of American idol, and someone covering a Whitney Houston song and doing a bunch of showy vocal runs. Is it skillful and show a gift? Yes, but it doesn't mean I enjoy listening to it. It's also not original work and done within the confines of someone else's composition. 

Again, I'm only criticising in the realm of personal preference and not claiming someone is wrong for enjoying Prince.

 

 

Edited by Bull Dozier
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20 minutes ago, Mr. Ected said:

 

4 minutes ago, zamboni said:

 

Edited by peaces

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14 minutes ago, Bull Dozier said:

I'm going to start off this post with two comments. First, I am acknowledging he has skill. My critique is that his own songs don't move me. 

Second, I'll admit bias, and that if I saw McCready solo like that in person, is probably gush and say it was awesome. 

That said, watching the first video reminded me of American idol, and someone covering a Whitney Houston song and doing a bunch of showy vocal runs. Is it skillful and show a gift? Yes, but it doesn't mean I enjoy listening to it. It's also not original work and done within the confines of someone else's composition. 

Again, I'm only criticising in the realm of personal preference and not claiming someone is wrong for enjoying Prince.

 

 

Beyond his skill as a guitarist, the guy basically played all the instruments on his own tracks. I think the only thing he left up to other people were backing vocals, sometimes (thanks Wendy and Lisa!). He composed and produced all his own stuff and a ton of things for other people as well (often covering instruments then too). At one point in the mid 80's it seemed like every fourth track on pop radio was a Prince production. This is what people mean when they talk about him being a musical genius - the guitar virtuosity was just icing on a many layered cake.

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3 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

Beyond his skill as a guitarist, the guy basically played all the instruments on his own tracks. I think the only thing he left up to other people were backing vocals, sometimes (thanks Wendy and Lisa!). He composed and produced all his own stuff and a ton of things for other people as well (often covering instruments then too). At one point in the mid 80's it seemed like every fourth track on pop radio was a Prince production. This is what people mean when they talk about him being a musical genius - the guitar virtuosity was just icing on a many layered cake.

Look, I could do the exact same thing. With today's technology I could write and record my whole album. And you know what, if Prince were alone today, he would probably think my album is crap, just like what I think about his music. 

If you think about it, the only difference between my album and his would be the millions that actually like his.  That's about it. 

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1 minute ago, zamboni said:
16 minutes ago, Mr. Ected said:

Here are two performances.

1) George Harrison's Enshrinement into RRHOF - While My Guitar Gently Weeps. If you have to go to the Prince solo, jump forward to about 3:15-3:20 and watch until the end.

Beat me to it.

:own3d::pickle::hifive:

@Bull Dozier - I hear you, that's the beauty of this. State what you enjoy, let us know when you don't and we will just make fun of you when the rest of us think you are wrong! ;) Like whenever I make a comment about the trio from up north! :bag:  :wall:

In semi-agreement with Bull, I keep going back and forth on the RRHOF performance. On the one hand, it is so awesome, especially the walk-off at the end; but on the other, part of me thinks it's a little show-offy and a RRHOF celebration of someone else's career shouldn't be that sort of performance. What I am talking about is Geddy Lee during the Yes enshrinement a couple years ago. Chris Squire died a couple years earlier and when they needed someone to play bass on Roundabout, Geddy simply played bass in the background not making a big deal of himself. The one part that makes me OK with Prince at the George Harrison performance is George Harrison's son Dhani is playing and seems to be loving watching Prince. :shrug:

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1 hour ago, Mr. Ected said:

 

In semi-agreement with Bull, I keep going back and forth on the RRHOF performance. On the one hand, it is so awesome, especially the walk-off at the end; but on the other, part of me thinks it's a little show-offy and a RRHOF celebration of someone else's career shouldn't be that sort of performance. What I am talking about is Geddy Lee during the Yes enshrinement a couple years ago. Chris Squire died a couple years earlier and when they needed someone to play bass on Roundabout, Geddy simply played bass in the background not making a big deal of himself. The one part that makes me OK with Prince at the George Harrison performance is George Harrison's son Dhani is playing and seems to be loving watching Prince. :shrug:

Hard to compare with Geddy though. He is one of the most likable and modest superstars you'll find in rock history - even the Rush detractors and Geddy voice-haters would probably agree with that.

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2 hours ago, Eephus said:

Eddie Jobson played violin with Roxy Music and prog supergroup UK.   Billy Currie played violin quite a bit on early records by Ultravox! but moved almost exclusively to synths by the time they reached their commercial peak with Midge Ure replacing John Foxx.

Jobson's outro on Out of the blue is one of RM's best moments.

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3 minutes ago, zamboni said:

Hard to compare with Geddy though. He is one of the most likable and modest superstars you'll find in rock history - even the Rush detractors and Geddy voice-haters would probably agree with that.

OK, Geddy is more modest than Prince. 

 

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As mentioned above, Prince's biggest problem (if you think there is one) is that he had no one to tell him no. Or, at least no one he considered an equal who could keep him from his worst self.

3 of the 4 Beatles had the same problem after the breakup.

That said, Purple Rain is a magnificent album and probably - for better or worse - the most influential of the decade.

1999 did get some airplay on my local AOR channel - DC101 - with "Little Red Corvette". I imagine the programmers had to be dragged kicking and screaming to play it, but they were otherwise stuck with a few good Foreigner, Journey, REO, and Rush records every once in a while.....then nothing beside ####### "Allentown" :X

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4 hours ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

David LaFlamme played some on Its a Beautiful Day.  Papa John Creech was featured on the Hot Tuna Album Burgers.  Me, I always loved Vassar Clemmons, but that's venturing out of Rock to Blue Grass.

Vassar Clements was a frikkin demon. Squarest-lookin' dude you ever wanna see but there was nuttin but fire & frenzy in dem fingers. He's the one i'm takin if i gotta go to Georgia.

And let's not forget rock fiddle luminaries Sugar Cane Harris of Pure Food & Drug Act and Jerry Goodman of The Flock and Mahawishywashy Orchestra

ETA: Dang - i guess there's some footage even Youtube dont have. Just spent a half-hour looking for Clements at rock festivals. Was a time when guys like him & Doc Watson & Leo Kottke & David Grisman & jug band folks used to get invited to be a part of festivals and occasionally some of em (VC especially) would sit in with flat-out rockers and the results were incendiary. No clips, tho - this was the only non-bluegrass i could find.

Edited by wikkidpissah
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6 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

:hifive:

Purple Rain is the only album worth listening to from Prince.

But even that is overshadowed by the breathless adoration of an otherwise mediocre catalog. And the deification and exploitation of the man in this city over two years removed from his death is nauseating.

I like some of his other hits (not Kiss, that song is awful), but Purple Rain was definitely his masterpiece.  Great album from start to finish.  

In my late teens, I was friends with a girl who would get, shall we say, worked up any time she heard Darling Nikki.  She was fun. :cool:

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Prince's catalog is a hot mess.  He released a ton of material after leaving Warner Brothers in the mid-90s but availability of it is very spotty.  Tidal has the most complete collection among commercial streaming services but there are major omissions there as well.  It's a little easier to find Prince content on YouTube than when he was alive but it's still frustrating to search for stuff that is neither old or rare.

I haven't listed to all of his late career records.  He released albums exclusively to his fan club, included them in newspapers and cereal boxes and buried them in Minneapolis snowdrifts.  I've probably listened to most of them.  I'm not going to argue that any of them rival Purple Rain, Dirty Mind or Sign O the Times.  The records are loaded with filler, experiments and jams that promise more than they ultimately deliver.  But all the ones I've heard do have their moments.

It's too bad Prince's musical legacy isn't better preserved at the moment.  Warner Brothers may have screwed the Artist over in his lifetime but they do know how to manage a catalog.  It's up to the courts and the various parties fighting over his estate now.  Hopefully his out of print stuff will eventually find a home and someone with more taste than greed will curate whatever is locked away in the vaults at Paisley Park.  In a way it's fitting, the Artist's ego, excesses, eccentricities and controversies helped make Prince what he was.

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5 hours ago, Chemical X said:

I THINK IT WAS IN '85, LIKE,
                    WHEN ALL THAT ANDROGYNOUS ####WAS GOING ON,  AND WHAT WAS WILD WAS THAT THE GUY WHO LOOKEDTHE MOST LIKE A #####
                    WAS GETTING ALL THE WOMEN.   EVEN I HAD IT--THE JERRY CURL WAS COMING OUT,                    AND I HAD MY #### SLICKEDTO THE SIDE AND ALL THAT.
                    IF YOU WEARING BAGGY #### NOWAND YOU ACTING HARD,                    IF YOU FROM L.A.,
                    YOU MOTHER####ERS WAS WEARINGSOME STRANGE ####.                    WE IN THE CLUB.
                    WE GETTING OUR GROOVE ON,SHAKING IT UP,                    AND PRINCE CAME IN THERE.
                    THAT'S WHEN PURPLE RAIN CAME OUT,                    AND PRINCE WAS THE ####,YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING?
                    PRINCE HAD ON, LIKE, A--  IT WAS LIKEA ZORRO-TYPE OUTFIT.
                    IT HAD THE RUFFLESTHAT COME DOWN THE FRONT.                    HE HAD THE BIG PERMFLUFFED OUT AND ALL THAT.
                    AND THE MUSTACHE, YOU KNOW,JUST DRAWN ON HIS FACE.                    AND IT LOOKED LIKE SOMETHINGTHAT A FIGURE SKATER WOULD WEAR,
                    YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING?                    AND HE WASWITH HIS WHOLE CREW,
                    AND HE HAD THIS OTHER CATNAMED MICKEY FREE,                    AND MICKEY FREE WAS, LIKE,THE NEW CAT IN SHALAMAR
                    THAT,WHEN HE JOINED THE GROUP,                    I HEARD MAD CATS, LIKE,
                    "YO, SHALAMAR GOTTHIS NEW GIRL IN THERE.
                    MAN, THAT ##### FINELIKE A MOTHER####ER."
                    THEY WAS TALKING ABOUTMICKEY FREE, OKAY?
                    MICKEY FREE IS NOT A GIRL,ALL RIGHT?
                    THEY CAME OVERWHERE WE WAS AT.
                    PRINCE STARTED TALKINGTO MY BROTHER.                    - HELLO, EDDIE MURPHY.
                    - PRINCE, WHAT'S UP?                    - I'M A BIG FANOF YOUR COMEDIES.
                    - OOH, THAT'S HOT, PRINCE.
                    - WOULD YOU LIKETO COME TO MY HOUSE
                    AND LISTENTO SOME MUSIC?
                    - OOH, THAT'S COOL.                    FRUITY, GET THE CAR.
                    - ASSEMBLE YOUR CREW.
                    I'LL BE OUTSIDE.
                    - WE WENT UP THERE.                    WE GET THERE.HE PUTS THE TRACKS ON.
                    THE TRACKS ARE SLAMMING,YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?                    AND WE'RE LISTENINGTO THE MUSIC AND EVERYTHING.
                    GROOVING AT THE CRIB.                    HE HAD GIRLS OVER THERE.                    HE HAD A NICE ENVIRONMENT.IT WAS TIGHT.
                    - THIS BORES ME.                    IS ANYONE UPFOR A GAME OF BASKETBALL?                    - [laughs]
                    - HOW ABOUTYOU AND YOUR FRIENDS                    VERSUS MEAND THE REVOLUTION?                    - [laughs]                   

SO I WAS LIKE, "THIS #####MUST BE           JOKING, MAN."
                    I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE'S GOINGWITH THIS AND ####.
                    BUT HE WAS DEAD SERIOUS.
                    HE HAD HIS, UH,HELPER OR WHATEVER
                    GO AND GET SOME, LIKE,SHORTS AND SNEAKERS
                    AND GAVE THEM TO US.
                    AND LAUGHING, I'M LIKE,
                    "THIS IS GONNA BE SOMEFUNNY-### ####."
                    SO THEY COME OUT, RIGHT?
                    AND I LOOK AT THEM,AND, UM,
                    THEY STILL GOT ON THE SAME ####THEY WAS WEARING AT THE CLUB.
                    IT WAS WILD, AND I WAS LIKE,
                    "I KNOW THEY AIN'T THINKINGABOUT PLAYING BALL IN THAT,"
                    BUT THEY WERE.
                    I SAID, "HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT?"
                    YOU KNOW WHAT WE'REGONNA CALL THIS?
                    THE SHIRTSAGAINST THE BLOUSES.
                    [laughter]
                    AND WHEN I SAID THAT,THIS LOOK CAME ON HIS FACE.
                    HE ICE GRILLED ME.
                    AND I'M LOOKING BACK AT HIM,THINKING TO MYSELF,
                    YOU KNOW,"WHAT ARE YOU ANGRY ABOUT?
                    "I MEAN, YOU KNOW WHEREYOU GOT THAT SHIRT FROM,
                    AND IT DAMN SURE WASN'TTHE MEN'S DEPARTMENT."
                    I MEAN, I KIND OFLEARNED SOMETHING THAT DAY:
                    DON'T NEVER JUDGEA BOOK BY ITS COVER.
                    THIS CAT COULD BALL, MAN.
                    - PLAY BALL.
                    HE WAS CROSSING CATS LIKE ICE.
                    CROSSED ME UP.
                    MADE MY KNEESSLAM TOGETHER.
                    HE WAS GETTING REBOUNDSLIKE CHARLES BARKLEY.
                    SNATCHING IT DOWN!
                    - SHOOT THE "J."
                    SHOOT IT!
                    LET'S RUN A PLAY.COMPUTER BLUE.
                    DARLING PICKY.
                    OWW!
                    - THEY WAS KIND OF SETTINGTHESE FRUITY PICKS, MAN,
                    YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING?
                    LIKE, YOU'D BETRYING TO CHECK PRINCE,
                    AND THEN YOU GO THIS CATSTANDING BEHIND YOU,
                    AND HE'S GETTING CLOSE TO YOU,
                    AND HIS HANDSIS OUT LIKE THIS.
                    YOU DON'T REALLY WANTTO BE BENT OVER
                    IN FRONT OF A CAT LIKE THAT,YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING?
                    PRINCE WAS INCREDIBLE!
                    PRINCE, YOU GOT A TOWEL, MAN?
                    IT'S KIND OF HOTOUT HERE, MAN.
                    - WHY DON'T YOU PURIFYYOURSELF IN THE WATERS
                    OF LAKE MINNETONKA.
                    GOOD.
                    IN YOUR FACE,CHARLIE MURPHY.
                    GOOD.
                    GOOD HUSTLE.[slap]
                    - YO, MAN,I'M NOT ON YOUR TEAM.
                    - I MEAN, IT WASN'T EVENLIKE IT WAS CLOSE.
                    IT WAS A LANDSLIDE VICTORY.
                    - GAME.
                    BLOUSES.
                    - I WAS THERE.I SEEN IT.
                    YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME?
                    YOU THINKI'M MAKING IT UP?
                    YOU THINK I'M TRYING TO,UH, YOU KNOW,
                    ENHANCE THE STORYBECAUSE I'M INVOLVED?
                    OR TRYING TO GIVE MYSELFAN EXCUSE FOR LOSING
                    BECAUSE I'M TELLING YOUA STORY ABOUT PRINCE?
                    I DARE YOU TO CHALLENGE PRINCETO A GAME OF BALL ONE-ON-ONE.
                    CHALLENGE HIM!
                    A'IGHT?
                    AND MAKE SURE YOUR PEOPLEIS THERE TO SEE THE GAME.
                    'CAUSE YOU MIGHT GETEMBARRASSED.
                    TRUST ME.
                    - ALL RIGHT, HE BEATYOU IN BASKETBALL,
                    AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED?
                    - AFTER IT WAS ALL OVER,
                    HE TOOK US IN THE HOUSEAND SERVED US PANCAKES.
                    PANCAKES.
                    WELL,I GOT TO ADMIT, UM,
                    IT WAS A GOOD GAME.
                    - I WISH I COULD SAYTHE SAME FOR YOU
                    AND YOUR CREW OF FLUNKIES.
                    DO YOU GUYSWANT SOME GRAPES?
 

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21 minutes ago, Eephus said:

I haven't listed to all of his late career records.  

What i've heard is all One Love post-horny bull####, occasionally broken up by a rousing altar call.. But i've yet to hear a Prince song which doesn't have an interesting tonal and/or rhythmic element. There was more magic in his ear than there ever was in his purple rock, and more modes than moods.

Edited by wikkidpissah

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I think the Purple Rain album is fantastic. Prince's guitar playing has been brought up, and I will add that not only could he shred the hell out of a guitar, he did splits, twirls, sexual things, whateva he wanted while shredding it. I loved watching him perform.

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8 minutes ago, simey said:

I think the Purple Rain album is fantastic. Prince's guitar playing has been brought up, and I will add that not only could he shred the hell out of a guitar, he did splits, twirls, sexual things, whateva he wanted while shredding it. I loved watching him perform.

Yeah but everybody does splits, twirls & sexual things when they play guitar.  I know I do.

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4 minutes ago, Eephus said:

Yeah but everybody does splits, twirls & sexual things when they play guitar.  I know I do.

The only thing you would split trying to do it is your pants.

Edited by simey
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12 minutes ago, simey said:

The only thing you would split trying to do it is your pants.

My partner Michelle Deanovich and I did synchronized splits in a dance contest at a Hamilton High School disco dance night.  We won of course.

The song was "Dazz" by Brick which is way groovier than Kansas. 

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On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 6:21 PM, Joe Mammy said:

Kansas kicks! 

For me the debut album Masque was the best with "Icarus (Born on Wings of Steel)" my fav song. There was not much rock violin out other than CDB and Jean Luc Ponty, Kansas had a unique sound.

I've seen 'em live many times over the years with the first time in '77 with Styx in Lakeland, FL. Always a good show.

Masque wasn't their debut.  They had a couple of albums before that one.

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6 minutes ago, Soonerman said:

Masque wasn't their debut.  They had a couple of albums before that one.

The debut (the one with the great John Brown album cover) is a pretty audacious debut.  After Don Kirshner signed them out of Topeka, Kansas recorded an album with a unique fusion of prog and boogie. 

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Like many artists or bands, Prince started off strong and hit his peak early.   Things got strange as his career progressed.  Prince was not my music but I sure did enjoy listening to it when it was on the radio.   Fortunately, it was on the audio a lot!   Prince made unique music that certainly moved me.    And, he was a damn good guitar player.   

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Guns N‘ Roses- Appetite for Destruction (1987) 

Side One

Welcome to the Jungle

Its So Easy

Nightrain

Out ta Get Me

Mr. Brownstone

Side Two

My Michelle

Think About You

Sweet Child O’ Mine

You’re Crazy

Anything Goes

Rocket Queen

Every few years someone produces a greatest albums list, and I always notice how this one moves up in the rankings. It certainly didn’t start out that way. I had actually heard of this band as early as 1985, because I had a buddy that was a bass player for a hair band that got a few gigs in LA before fading out of existence (I can’t even remember their name at this point) and they actually were on the same bill as GNR and LA Guns. Later on after “Sweet Child O Mine” started rising up the charts, I saw them open for the Stones at the LA Coliseum. I was NOT impressed. All could barely stand up, and he yelled at the bass player. It was ugly. 

I didn’t listen to the album at the time. It was not the sort of music I was into. I liked “Sweet Child O Mine” but it got overplayed so quickly that I couldn’t stand it. The other two radio hits, Jungle and Paradise City, were noise fo me and I didn’t recognize at all their complexity and how they changed music. 

Now I respect them a lot more. Still not my thing (and their racist lyrics from the next album repelled me as well I admit) but I can see how this album really was influential, and obviously worthy of discussion. 

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Not a great record, but a good one.  They could have shaved off 3-4 songs and made it more concise, but whatever.  This is one of those "right place, right time" albums.  It was inherently less cheesy than most of the other hair metal and actually rocked without sounding contrived.  I probably would have liked them more had they had a different, and better, singer, but I get that Axl Rose is part of their appeal for many, so I am probably in the minority on that one. 

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Welcome to the Jungle is the perfect rock song. Sweet, sour, salt, spice, umami. Have yet to listen to Appetite because, being already old when i made this realization and not wanting to like the boys less and knowing i would ultimately have to be disappointed by anything else they did i didnt want to hear more. I have never heard a GnR song but accidentally since and they've never failed to disappoint. And it doesnt make me love WttJ one atom less.

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Today's first album was fitting.  I was embarrassing my son by listening to Baby I'm a Star at top volume while driving around town today.  

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3 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

They could have shaved off 3-4 songs and made it more concise, but whatever.  

I’m wondering if “It’s So Easy” is one of those you think should have been shaved off. Because I was astonished to learn, reading their Wiki page, that it was the first single off the album- a song I have never heard on the radio. 

I was also surprised to learn that “November Rain” had actually been recorded but left off the album, because after “Sweet Child O Mine” they didn’t want a second ballad. 

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I think Appetite is one of the best albums albums ever.  I still have vivid memories of waiting outside of the building for the first day of school in Middle School and everybody passing around their walkmans with Appetite in it.  

That said, I would be perfectly happy never hearing Paradise City ever again.  

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2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I’m wondering if “It’s So Easy” is one of those you think should have been shaved off. Because I was astonished to learn, reading their Wiki page, that it was the first single off the album- a song I have never heard on the radio. 

I was also surprised to learn that “November Rain” had actually been recorded but left off the album, because after “Sweet Child O Mine” they didn’t want a second ballad. 

That's probably my 2nd least favorite on the album.  

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8 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

 but I get that Axl Rose is part of their appeal for many, so I am probably in the minority on that one. 

Certainly the presentation was part of it: Slash in the top hat, Axl doing a Davy Jones dance move, etc. 

And the name of the band too. I always thought it was a perfect band name for marketability: Guns and Roses, harshness and sweetness. Hard rock with a romantic edge to it. 

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