DocHolliday
Footballguy
I love listening to Adele sing but I cannot imagine wanting an album of hers. A little goes a long way for some artists.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Classic Album Discussion Thread: The Kinks-Lola Versus Powerman and the Moneygoround, Pt. 1 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Galileo
Footballguy
Not only have I never listened to this album, I can honestly say I have never heard of a single one of those song titles. Furthermore, I'm OK with that.
ETA...Alright, I was inspired to look up Rolling in The Deep, and I have heard this song before, just didn't know the title. Meh...She's a decent vocalist, but I am not going to yearning to listen to this at any given time...
Last edited by a moderator:
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I look at great singers like great musicians. I still want to hear a great song to go with it. That said, I did like her james bond theme a few years back.
timschochet
Footballguy
Billy Joel- The Stranger (1977)
Movin’ Out (Anthony’s Song)
The Stranger
Just the Way You Are
Scenes From An Italian Restaurant
Vienna
Only The Good Die Young
She’s Always a Woman
Get It Right the First Time
Everybody Has a Dream
A couple years back I was astonished when my younger daughter told me how much she loved “Vienna”- she had to learn it for a ballet dance. At first I thought she might be referring to the Ultravox song (which is also very good BTW). But it shows you the enduring quality of this album.
“She’s Always A Woman” is about as pretty a ballad as produced in the 70s. “Just the Way You Are” is truly overplayed but still a great love song; “Only the Good Die Young” is as close to rock as Joel ever got.
But- and I know I’m going to get crap for this because so many people love it (including my wife) but I find “Scenes From an Italian Restaurant” to be pretentious, long, and annoying. There I said it.
Movin’ Out (Anthony’s Song)
The Stranger
Just the Way You Are
Scenes From An Italian Restaurant
Vienna
Only The Good Die Young
She’s Always a Woman
Get It Right the First Time
Everybody Has a Dream
A couple years back I was astonished when my younger daughter told me how much she loved “Vienna”- she had to learn it for a ballet dance. At first I thought she might be referring to the Ultravox song (which is also very good BTW). But it shows you the enduring quality of this album.
“She’s Always A Woman” is about as pretty a ballad as produced in the 70s. “Just the Way You Are” is truly overplayed but still a great love song; “Only the Good Die Young” is as close to rock as Joel ever got.
But- and I know I’m going to get crap for this because so many people love it (including my wife) but I find “Scenes From an Italian Restaurant” to be pretentious, long, and annoying. There I said it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Fantastic record. Some of his best songs ever are on this, most notably the title track and Scenes from an Italian Restaurant, but let's face it, every song on this one is a gem.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
*lalala*
Piano Man, Big Shot
Startin fires, moving out
Just ain't rock&roll to me-ee
Piano Man, Big Shot
Startin fires, moving out
Just ain't rock&roll to me-ee
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Was wondering when Billy Joel would show up either in this thread or the Top 3 series. Without looking I'd guess An Innocent Man outsold Stranger by a bunch, but Stranger sure has a deeper bench. Great album.
There's some point in Joel's career where I turned heel on him, but it was years after this.
There's some point in Joel's career where I turned heel on him, but it was years after this.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
It's a great song.
This is probably his best album, but it's not my favorite, which is weird.
zamboni
Footballguy
Billy had quite an album run through the '70s, but I think The Stranger is where he truly hit on all cylinders. Definitely overplayed - particularly where I live in the NYC area where his material gets crammed down your throat - but there's no denying the tight hooks of this album. And to think, George Martin almost produced it, but backed away.
zamboni
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
rockaction
Footballguy
Movin' Out is probably my favorite song off of this album.
Good album. Strong.
Good album. Strong.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Movin Out and Only the Good Die Young are my two favorite Billy Joel songs so this is my favorite of his albums. I am not a big Billy Joel fan though so maybe there are much better songs and albums.
zamboni
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
It's a great sounding record with a less gimmicky production style than Joel's three previous albums. Ramone used Joel's touring band instead of session men and the use of synthesizers is pared down to the minimum.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
It still kills me how guys using old technology made better sounding albums than a lot of modern music.
Eephus
Footballguy
I've tried to restrain myself in this thread but I do believe one of the things that distinguish classic records is audio quality that stands the test of time.
Eephus
Footballguy
I saw Joel tour behind The Stranger about a month after the album was released but before "Just the Way You Are" broke big. He was booked into a cattle barn on the UW-Madison campus (The Stock Pavilion) and GA tickets were only six bucks.
He changed the line in "Piano Man" to "...and the microphone smells like a steer" in honor of the venue.
He changed the line in "Piano Man" to "...and the microphone smells like a steer" in honor of the venue.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I really have a hard time listening to/liking stuff made prior to the mid/late 70's because the sound quality just isn't there. It tends to sound like a transistor radio even if you're not listening to it on a transistor radio.
Last edited by a moderator:
Eephus
Footballguy
In many cases, early songs were recorded and mixed with playback over transistor radios in mind. Phil Spector's Wall of Sound sounds much better blasting out of speakers than on headphones.
Recordings were technology constrained through the late 60s but there are still some great sounding records produced before studios went from four to eight track boards. It's tough to tell nowadays because everything has been remastered and remixed but I think Sinatra's late 50s records, Motown, early 60s jazz records, Buddy Holly, early classical stereo recordings are standouts from the era.
I've ranted about this before on this board but my bugaboo are records that were made later after 24-track boards, digital recording and synths became commonplace. To take a couple of bands who Tim has mentioned already, compare Boston's first record with "Third Stage", or "Rumours" with late 80s Fleetwood Mac albums. The later records sound like crap in comparison to material recorded a decade earlier using inferior technology.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Led zep's records of the early 70s always sounded good vs it's counterparts in the airwaves back then. Page seemed to know how to produce albums.
Eephus
Footballguy
It's easy to highlight the impact of multi-track boards because it was pretty much of a technological step change over a very short period of time. I think advances in the techniques used to mike up drum kits up in the studio were just as significant for rock n roll's sound.
I wish I knew more about how and when it was done but I'd put it somewhere between the British Invasion and Led Zeppelin I. Even the heavy rock records from 66-68 like the Yardbirds and Vanilla Fudge have kind of a crappy drum sound.compared to just a few years later. There are a lot of 70s rock records where the drums are still pretty low in the mix but a corner had been turned. Maybe it was all related if it was simply a matter of more tracks allowing more microphones to be devoted to the drums.
I wish I knew more about how and when it was done but I'd put it somewhere between the British Invasion and Led Zeppelin I. Even the heavy rock records from 66-68 like the Yardbirds and Vanilla Fudge have kind of a crappy drum sound.compared to just a few years later. There are a lot of 70s rock records where the drums are still pretty low in the mix but a corner had been turned. Maybe it was all related if it was simply a matter of more tracks allowing more microphones to be devoted to the drums.
northern exposure
Footballguy
Workin' too hard can give you A heart attack (ack) ack ack ack! This part of the song always grated on me.
Was Mr. Joel channeling Bill the Cat?
Eephus
Footballguy
...and since the topic du jour is Billy Joel, compare the sound of "The Stranger" produced by Phil Ramone with Joel's "Turnstiles" album that he self-produced one year earlier using largely the same musicians.
"Turnstiles" has some of Joel's best songs that he's continued to perform for over 40 years but it lacks the sonic immediacy of "The Stranger". "Say Goodbye to Hollywood" opens the earlier record. Joel is trying to emulate an early rock n roll sound but it just comes off as muddy to my ears. The vocals and drums aren't recorded well and the strings are obtrusive. "Moving Out (Anthony's Song)" leads off "The Stranger and is kind of a similar song to "Say Goodbye to Hollywood". But the sound is superior in almost every way. The little touches like the multitracked saxophones, the way the background vocals swell behind the chorus and the motorcycle sound effects make a good song into a great record.
"Turnstiles" has some of Joel's best songs that he's continued to perform for over 40 years but it lacks the sonic immediacy of "The Stranger". "Say Goodbye to Hollywood" opens the earlier record. Joel is trying to emulate an early rock n roll sound but it just comes off as muddy to my ears. The vocals and drums aren't recorded well and the strings are obtrusive. "Moving Out (Anthony's Song)" leads off "The Stranger and is kind of a similar song to "Say Goodbye to Hollywood". But the sound is superior in almost every way. The little touches like the multitracked saxophones, the way the background vocals swell behind the chorus and the motorcycle sound effects make a good song into a great record.
zamboni
Footballguy
Billy has unapologetically said the opening drum fill was lifted from Hal Blaine’s iconic thwap that opens the Ronettes’ “Be My Baby”.
ETA: of course, so have many other artists.
Last edited by a moderator:
Eephus
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Eephus, I know next to nothing about sound quality.
But an album we reviewed earlier, Ziggy Stardust, always struck me as having great sound. I don’t know why it sounds different and so good- care to comment?
But an album we reviewed earlier, Ziggy Stardust, always struck me as having great sound. I don’t know why it sounds different and so good- care to comment?
Eephus
Footballguy
The short answer is Ken Scott who produced the record. Scott started at Abbey Road at the age of 16 and worked under George Martin during the Beatles' most creative period. His first production credit was on Hunky Dory and he produced every Bowie album until Diamond Dogs. Scott's efforts are always cleanly recorded in keeping with his background as an engineer.timschochet said:
The long answer is more qualitative. To my ears, there's the clarity that Scott brought along with a very spacious sound with tons of separation between the instruments. The rhythm section is very trebly; there's very little kick drum by modern standards and many tracks are dominated by strummed acoustic rhythm guitars that work as percussion. It's always difficult to separate the artist and the producer but there's an obvious change in Bowie's sound between Pin-ups (produced by Scott) and Diamond Dogs (produced by Bowie himself). Pin-ups is a covers album but it sounds more like Ziggy than the album that followed. Diamond Dogs has a more claustrophobic sound with much more reverb.
Diamond Dogs was Bowie's only solo production credit (I think). Afterwards he began a partnership with Tony Visconti that lasted until the artist's death. Even when the hands of other producers like Eno and Nile Rogers were involved, Visconti got co-producer credits.
Bowie is a legend of course but he's a mixed bag producer. I've always thought his production work on Mott's All the Young Dudes didn't flatter the band. Iggy's TV Eye live album sounds like there's a wall of garbage between the microphone and the speakers but that may have been Bowie's intent. His studio records with Iggy and Lou Reed are great but not great sounding.
timschochet
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Along with the multi track, microphones got significantly better and more diverse over the course of the 70's. The mic you use for the hi hats has nothing to do with the mic you use in the bass drum, but I don't think there was much differentiation until the 70's. By the mid 70's in the studio you had a mic on every drum, at least 2 overheads for the whole set, top and bottom mics on the snare, a dedicated mic for the hihats, etc.. I'm thinking of Billy Cobham's setup in particular as evidence. Until they could use that kind of setup, with different types of mics for different applications on the set, you couldn't achieve the clarity and the range (particularly low end) you needed to get a good drum recording.Eephus said:
Things continued to sound tinny (IMO) until Led Zeppelin IV. Even that album is a mixed bag, but I think the sound they got on When The Levee breaks was the thing that got the big drum sound snowball really rolling. A lot of that was the room (well stairwell/entryway actually) they set up the drums in for that track, but I think the sound they achieved was pretty influential from that point forward.
The 70's was when engineers had the equipment needed to figure out how to capture the full dynamic range of music on record. Then in the late 80's they clamped everything down and sterilized the sound, overprocessing it, removing all the warmth.
Last edited by a moderator:
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Good point on the distance factor. I remember page wanting more distance to create better sound.
timschochet
Footballguy
Aerosmith- Toys in the Attic (1975)
Toys in the Attic
Uncle Salty
Adam’s Apple
Walk This Way
Big Ten Inch Record
Sweet Emotion
No More No More
Round and Round
You See Me Crying
Like several other artists that we’ve already covered, Aerosmith is a band that has reinvented itself over the years. This album along with their debut represents the first and best version. The fact that they unashamedly attempted to imitate the Stones doesn’t mask a pretty damn good band, with a great rhythm section. The two hit songs that emerged here, “Walk This Way” and “Sweet Emotion” were as good as any hard rock in the 70s.
Toys in the Attic
Uncle Salty
Adam’s Apple
Walk This Way
Big Ten Inch Record
Sweet Emotion
No More No More
Round and Round
You See Me Crying
Like several other artists that we’ve already covered, Aerosmith is a band that has reinvented itself over the years. This album along with their debut represents the first and best version. The fact that they unashamedly attempted to imitate the Stones doesn’t mask a pretty damn good band, with a great rhythm section. The two hit songs that emerged here, “Walk This Way” and “Sweet Emotion” were as good as any hard rock in the 70s.
Last edited by a moderator:
DocHolliday
Footballguy
This is the Aerosmith that I want to remember. Aerosmith, like too many bands, sold out. It is easy to see why this happens to bands. Making money after struggling for years has to feel great. But, it is really disappointing to the fans that love the early music. The music that they put out in the second half of their career is embarrassing. It is weak and nothing like the cool music that Aerosmith made when they were starting out.
Tim mentioned the two hit songs from this album but Toys in the Attic is easily my favorite song by Aerosmith.
Sullie
Footballguy
I really like Toys in the Attic quite a bit but I would argue that Rocks is a better album, maybe call them 1a and 1b on their discography. I don't know what the sales numbers are like but (to me) I always find myself reaching for Rocks when I need an Aerosmith fix.
Back in the Saddle
Last Child
Rats in the Cellar
Comination
Sick as a Dog
Nobody's Fault
Get the Lead Out
Lick and a Promise
Home Tonight
Back in the Saddle
Last Child
Rats in the Cellar
Comination
Sick as a Dog
Nobody's Fault
Get the Lead Out
Lick and a Promise
Home Tonight
timschochet
Footballguy
I did consider Rocks, along with the debut album that features “Dream On”, arguably their best song. But it’s hard to argue with two massive hits like Toys has.
timschochet
Footballguy
I also need to ding this band a couple points for contributing a song to the New England Patriots. Not a good look.
Raging weasel
Footballguy
Pre- and post-80s Aerosmith don't even sound like the same band. Love 70s Aerosmith but generally hate their catalogue since 82.
Though it lacks the hits of some of their other work Get Your Wings is my fav by them with this in 2nd.
Though it lacks the hits of some of their other work Get Your Wings is my fav by them with this in 2nd.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
My cousin Johnny Murphy was my idol when i was a kid. A few yrs older than me & taller than most Irish punks, he dressed in that iconoclastic way that made any combination work. In addition, he could imitate the moves of every great frontman of the 50s & 60s, from Elvis to James Brown to Jagger and everybody in between and had several steps and moves - rolling a tambourine across his shoulder from one hand to another was one - of his own. Woulda been a star except for one thing - couldnt sing. Tone deaf, croaked like a frog.
Johnny became a junkie pretty young in life, when being a junkie was all-encompassingly expensive, and hounded me for dough & favors all the time til he died earlier this decade. Aerosmith was just beginning to hit at the same time i became prominent in the Boston music scene and their practice house was in the town he grew up in, Reading MA. He calls me one time and begsbegsbegs me to use my juice to get him in to an Aerosmith practice so he can be right again w his boys @ home one more time (i wasnt the only one who idolized him before he hit the spike). Made some calls and, fearing the mooching would reach 11 if i went with him, put my bodyguard Wayne on it and he got to talk shop with Steve and there's a picture of them steppin together.
Boom. Johnny stops making his junkie mooch calls for like a year. I know he's not straight, so i take it for gratitude. So much so that, when we got invited to a party at a much larger Aerosmith practice house in Maine (now that they were a thing), i called Johnny and asked if he wanted to come along. The band was a lot less accessible this time around so no great memories, but the smiles on Cool Johnny Murphy's face over being around the life he shoulda had will always have a life in my mind. He apparently got decades of mileage, to mix some metaphors, out his Steven Tyler picture and had a copy cremated with him. So there's that.
Johnny became a junkie pretty young in life, when being a junkie was all-encompassingly expensive, and hounded me for dough & favors all the time til he died earlier this decade. Aerosmith was just beginning to hit at the same time i became prominent in the Boston music scene and their practice house was in the town he grew up in, Reading MA. He calls me one time and begsbegsbegs me to use my juice to get him in to an Aerosmith practice so he can be right again w his boys @ home one more time (i wasnt the only one who idolized him before he hit the spike). Made some calls and, fearing the mooching would reach 11 if i went with him, put my bodyguard Wayne on it and he got to talk shop with Steve and there's a picture of them steppin together.
Boom. Johnny stops making his junkie mooch calls for like a year. I know he's not straight, so i take it for gratitude. So much so that, when we got invited to a party at a much larger Aerosmith practice house in Maine (now that they were a thing), i called Johnny and asked if he wanted to come along. The band was a lot less accessible this time around so no great memories, but the smiles on Cool Johnny Murphy's face over being around the life he shoulda had will always have a life in my mind. He apparently got decades of mileage, to mix some metaphors, out his Steven Tyler picture and had a copy cremated with him. So there's that.
Eephus
Footballguy
It's no coincidence that you mention Billy Cobham because Ken Scott worked with the Mahavishnu Orchestra and on Cobham's early solo records.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Good album. I am not a big fan of Aerosmith, but it's obvious why this album has classic status. It has several massive classics, a few really good songs that also gained traction on radio back in the day, and then rounds out with some killer deep cuts.
Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
No more no more is way underrated....
Going to vegas to see them next summer
Going to vegas to see them next summer
Eephus
Footballguy
The five piece lineup and Tyler's mannerisms got them tagged as the American Stones. That probably helped at the beginning of their career but it really wasn't a fair comparison.
I think their records were always as good as their material. Aerosmith could elevate a good song but they recorded a lot of dreck. Joe Perry is one of the best though; he always could say a lot even in a short four bar solo.
I think their records were always as good as their material. Aerosmith could elevate a good song but they recorded a lot of dreck. Joe Perry is one of the best though; he always could say a lot even in a short four bar solo.
Similar threads
