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Classic Album Discussion Thread: The Kinks-Lola Versus Powerman and the Moneygoround, Pt. 1 (1 Viewer)

Eephus said:
Midge Ure was in Ultravox! with Billy Currie who was in Visage with Rusty Egan who was in Rich Kids with Glen Matlock who was in the Sex Pistols.
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Ure was with Rich Kids too. Their only album was produced by the late, great Mick Ronson who also played keyboards on the album 

very small world

 
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Apologies if I glossed over the post with this, but the song 2112 is also about Rush's fight with the record company (the evil overlords in the story), who, after the failure of Caress of Steel, wanted them to make an album of catchy songs again, but Rush basically said, "Screw you, if we are gonna fail, we are gonna fail our way," and wrote an album with a 20-minute song on Side 1, which the record company could not move to Side 2.  The album was released, was a big smash, and the record company never messed with the band again as far as telling them what to do. 

"We have assumed control" - that is Rush telling the record execs, "We have control of our creative destiny." 

Many bands, desperate for success, would have caved, but Rush did not. Even if you do not like their music, you have to give them mad props for sticking to their guns and making it on their terms. 

 
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HellToupee said:
Ure was with Rich Kids too. Their only album was produced by the late, great Mick Ronson who also played keyboards on the album 

very small world
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Mick Jones was also in an early version of Rich Kids.  That's the Mick Jones from the Clash, not the one from Foreigner.

ETA:  trying to wrestle the thread back from the Rush Ditto Heads.

 
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Uruk-Hai said:
Still waiting for @timschochet to post a record by the greatest Classic Rock band of all time (and he'll post the wrong one, but beggars can't be choosers), but while he screws around with these second tier acts.......

Rush was never my thing. I was big into prog way before I was ready for it and Rush came along after I was already burnt out (in more ways than one). I never denied their talent, however - those dudes could play. Peart's not what moves me in a drummer and Geddy has never been what I want a singer to be. That said, when they would lock into a groove they were really really good.

Heart was prefab musically, maybe (from a '70s critics' POV), but they had a force-of-nature that no one else at the time in AOR had - Annie. Heart knew how to build a song and "Crazy On You" had to drive Pete Townsend crazy because it was every bit as good as anything he cooked up.
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Now I am curiois as to which band you are referring to. Did you drop a hint or was that unintentional? 

 
Ghost Rider said:
Apologies if I glossed over the post with this, but the song 2112 is also about Rush's fight with the record company (the evil overlords in the story), who, after the failure of Caress of Steel, wanted them to make an album of catchy songs again, but Rush basically said, "Screw you, if we are gonna fail, we are gonna fail our way," and wrote an album with a 20-minute song on Side 1, which the record company could not move to Side 2.  The album was released, was a big smash, and the record company never messed with the band again as far as telling them what to do. 

"We have assumed control" - that is Rush telling the record execs, "We have control of our creative destiny." 

Many bands, desperate for success, would have caved, but Rush did not. Even if you do not like their music, you have to give them mad props for sticking to their guns and making it on their terms. 
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I do remember reading (or seeing on a doc) that 2112 was definitely going to be a make or break album - if it failed, they would get dropped, and go work regular jobs somewhere. And like you said, they had the "well, let's fail on our terms" attitude. Big fan of this band, for sure.

For those of you who say you liked a bit of Rush but stopped around Subdivisions/etc, definitely check out Clockwork Angels and Snakes and Arrows. Fantastic stuff. 

 
timschochet said:
So about 5 years ago Rolling Stone had a readers poll for the greatest prog rock album ever. #1 was an album by Dream Theater, a band I never listen to (I probably should though) and is not classic rock- too new for that. #2 was 2112. That’s pretty significant. Whatever you want to say about these guys, they’ve obviously lasted a long time, longer than almost all of their contemporaries. 
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Not to sidetrack this discussion, but I would be surprised if you like Dream Theater.  They are like Rush + Iron Maiden + Yes on steroids.  I am a big fan, largely because they do write great songs, but their chops can drive some up a wall. 

 
jwb said:
I do remember reading (or seeing on a doc) that 2112 was definitely going to be a make or break album - if it failed, they would get dropped, and go work regular jobs somewhere. And like you said, they had the "well, let's fail on our terms" attitude. Big fan of this band, for sure.

For those of you who say you liked a bit of Rush but stopped around Subdivisions/etc, definitely check out Clockwork Angels and Snakes and Arrows. Fantastic stuff. 
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I would recommend Counterparts over Snakes and Arrows by a wide distance, but I agree that Clockwork Angels is a great last album (although I wish the sound was less muddy).  

I am also a HUGE fan of Power Windows.  Peart's lyrics on that record are insanely good.  He was hit or miss in the 70's with the fantasy stuff, but once the 80's came around, he started writing about real world issues in a different way and really came into his own as a great lyricist. 

 
Big fan of 2112, although I think the second side drops off noticeably after the  overture. Loved when the Foo Fighters performed it with Rush at the RRHOF ceremony when the latter finally got elected.

 
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ffldrew said:
Funny you put up Night at the Opera and 2112. When I was in High School I was into the first 3 albums big - Queen 1 and 2 #######g kill.(Saw them open for Mott the Hoople - killed it) Sheer Heart Attack not bad - but Night at the Opera was when I started checking out from them and glad I did it's got too much junk - and the same with 2112 -- Working Man, Fly By Night , Finding My Way - great crunching guitar numbers on those first records( I saw them in a school gym in early 75) - tunes you could play in the basement/garage - That was real rock to me as a  kid in the Midwest (KSHE 95 Real Rock Radio) but as 2112 got more and more popular and listened and overplayed -  I was tuned out. I don't think I've listened to another Rush record from start to finish since then. Same with Queen.
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:shock:

 
Buzzbait said:
:shock:
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As much as I love Queen, it wasn't long after A Night at the Opera where they stopped making albums that were great from start to finish.  The nature of the band, with them all writing separately and the styles wildly varying, meant that it got tough to make an album that was loaded with nothing but great songs. They never really did that again until Innuendo, which has one blah song, but then the rest nothing but greatness.  That was clearly their goal since they knew Freddie was running out of time. 

Buzzbait said:
Agree. Counterparts is a really good album. Not even close IMO between CP & SnA. 
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Yep. I like S&A a lot when it was out, but over time I came to view it as merely a pretty good record.  

 
Ghost Rider said:
As much as I love Queen, it wasn't long after A Night at the Opera where they stopped making albums that were great from start to finish.  The nature of the band, with them all writing separately and the styles wildly varying, meant that it got tough to make an album that was loaded with nothing but great songs. 
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Royalties can keep bands together or tear them apart. 

 
Ok since Rush is the topic for now here are my Rush album rankings.

1. Permanent Waves

2. Moving Pictures

3. Hemispheres

4. Signals

5. Power Windows

6. Grace Under Pressure

7. 2112

8. Hold Your Fire

9. A Farewell To Kings

10. Clockwork Angels

11. Counterparts

12. Snakes and Arrows

13. Roll The Bones

14. Presto

15. Test For Echo

16. Caress Of Steel

17. Fly By Night

18. Rush

19. Vapor Trails

 
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Eephus said:
Royalties can keep bands together or tear them apart. 
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Yep. Rush did it smart from the beginning.  They agreed at the start that any money the band made (album sales, royalties, concerts, etc.) would be split evenly no matter what (they each got 33 1/3%). 

Todem said:
Ok since Rush is the topic for now here are my Rush album rankings.

...
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It is hard to do a ranking, but for me, 2112, Power Windows, Moving Pictures and Permanent Waves are always the top 4 (the order depends on my mood). 

 
timschochet said:
Well let’s consider how AOR dealt with him. 

In my memory, exactly two songs got radio play  during the AOR era: “Like a Rolling Stone” and “Knocking On Heavens Door”. And that’s it. Any other Dylan tune was consigned to oldies. “Lay Lady Lay”, which was written AFTER “Rolling Stone”, was played on the oldies station. 
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Are you basing this on one particular radio station?

Rainy Day Women, Lay Lady Lay, Hurricane...I heard these plenty on classic rock radio stations.

 
shuke said:
Are you basing this on one particular radio station?

Rainy Day Women, Lay Lady Lay, Hurricane...I heard these plenty on classic rock radio stations.
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Two in my area. I never heard Rainy Day or Hurricane. Hurricane appeared in the film Dazed and Confused, and then in the Denzel film obviously, and I started hearing it after that.

 
Ghost Rider said:
As much as I love Queen, it wasn't long after A Night at the Opera where they stopped making albums that were great from start to finish.  
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I have to disagree with you here a little. Opera came out in 1975; IMO the last great Queen album was The Game in 1980. So thats 5 years later. 

 
Todem said:
Ok since Rush is the topic for now here are my Rush album rankings.

1. Permanent Waves

2. Moving Pictures

3. Hemispheres

4. Signals

5. Power Windows

6. Grace Under Pressure

7. 2112

8. Hold Your Fire

9. A Farewell To Kings

10. Clockwork Angels

11. Counterparts

12. Snakes and Arrows

13. Roll The Bones

14. Presto

15. Test For Echo

16. Caress Of Steel

17. Fly By Night

18. Rush

19. Vapor Trails
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Interesting. Obviously I haven’t listened to these albums; 2112 was a new listen for me today. But the consensus among critics seems to be 2112 and Moving Pictures. 

But I understand what it’s like to be a fan- I am a very big Who fan, for example, and my favorite album by them is Who Are You, which I doubt anybody would think of selecting as their best. 

 
Todem said:
Ok since Rush is the topic for now here are my Rush album rankings.

1. Permanent Waves

2. Moving Pictures

3. Hemispheres

4. Signals

5. Power Windows

6. Grace Under Pressure

7. 2112

8. Hold Your Fire

9. A Farewell To Kings

10. Clockwork Angels

11. Counterparts

12. Snakes and Arrows

13. Roll The Bones

14. Presto

15. Test For Echo

16. Caress Of Steel

17. Fly By Night

18. Rush

19. Vapor Trails
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I like most of your list with a few exceptions:

Moving Pictures, Signals and Clockwork Angels are the three albums that I can listen to from beginning to end and enjoy every single song, so I have them 1-2-3.  All the rest have at least one song that I consider "meh" and I skip over.

Vapor Trails is very under-rated and I consider better than the three above it.  Especially the song Ghost Rider.

I would add Exit Stage Left as their live version of Jacob's Ladder is MUCH better than the studio version on Permanent Waves.

These are all just little nit-picks and every Rush fan has their favorites.  Most of your list is spot-on.

For the record, Rush is the only band I know that could put on a three and half hour concert one night, do another the next night and never repeat a song.  And you would have a great time at either one.  I know, I know....I'm sure some will argue that...but I'm many beers down the road- so I thought I'd throw that out.

 
Todem said:
jamny said:
I got into Rush when Hemispheres was released. Found 2112 soon after and bought all of their albums. I eagerly anticipated the release of Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures and was not disappointed. I will always remember hearing New World Man on the radio for the first time and thinking...wtf? It was my first experience hating a Rush song. Of course I bought the album and even tried liking Grace Under Pressure and finally gave up on Power Windows. I kept hearing how subsequent albums sounded like "old Rush" but they never did to me. It didn't sour me on the band though because I will always appreciate them for their early years. They went in a different direction and more power to them. They earned it.
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Pick up Counterparts and Clockwork Angels.

You will not be disappointed. Those are wheelhouse classic Rush albums. That phase of the band you loved (and I loved it too of course) is so prevalent on those two more modern Rush albums.
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See I think after looking at your list, I realize why I usually don't think any newer albums sound like "old Rush" Old Rush to me is like Caress of Steel, 2112 and Fly By Night, not Moving Pictures and Permanent Waves. I'll check out some of the newer ones mentioned though. The last one I tried listening to is Snakes and Arrows and it just felt like more of the same.

 
timschochet said:
I have to disagree with you here a little. Opera came out in 1975; IMO the last great Queen album was The Game in 1980. So thats 5 years later. 
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The Game is very good, but even that has a few duds, and remember that was I was referring to their albums with no clunkers.  I mean, think of the classics on albums like News of the World (We Will Rock You, We Are the Champions) and Jazz (Fat Bottomed Girls, Bicycle Race)...and think of the utter trash that is on those records as well. 

timschochet said:
Interesting. Obviously I haven’t listened to these albums; 2112 was a new listen for me today. But the consensus among critics seems to be 2112 and Moving Pictures. 
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Actually, 2112 is usually the least loved of their classic era (1976-1981).  To wit: https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/rush 

2112 always gets mad props because not only is it great, but it was their breakthrough.

Also, professional music critics are generally brain dead dopes. 

 
Ghost Rider said:
The Game is very good, but even that has a few duds, and remember that was I was referring to their albums with no clunkers.  I mean, think of the classics on albums like News of the World (We Will Rock You, We Are the Champions) and Jazz (Fat Bottomed Girls, Bicycle Race)...and think of the utter trash that is on those records as well. 
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I agree that Opera was nearly flawless, but not too many albums in history can justifiably make that claim. I wouldn’t say News of the World and Jazz had utter trash, but definitely uneven moments (thinking Sleeping on the Sidewalk, Fun It, Leaving Home Ain’t Easy)

 
zamboni said:
I agree that Opera was nearly flawless, but not too many albums in history can justifiably make that claim. I wouldn’t say News of the World and Jazz had utter trash, but definitely uneven moments (thinking Sleeping on the Sidewalk, Fun It, Leaving Home Ain’t Easy)
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"Utter trash" might have been overstating it a bit, but I look at it as there being a wide gap between the best songs on those albums and the least best/worst songs.  An album like ...Opera is pretty consistent, with some noticeable highs. 

 
Ghost Rider said:
The Game is very good, but even that has a few duds, and remember that was I was referring to their albums with no clunkers.  I mean, think of the classics on albums like News of the World (We Will Rock You, We Are the Champions) and Jazz (Fat Bottomed Girls, Bicycle Race)...and think of the utter trash that is on those records as well. 
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Ghost Rider said:
"Utter trash" might have been overstating it a bit, but I look at it as there being a wide gap between the best songs on those albums and the least best/worst songs.  An album like ...Opera is pretty consistent, with some noticeable highs. 
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I respect your POV here but don't agree. For starters comparing anything after ANATO isn't fair. It's a tour de force and one of a kind not only in the Queen catalog but in all of music. IMO the four albums that followed (Day at the Races, NOTW, Jazz and The Game) all are great albums end to end. They aren't on the same level as ANATO but again how many albums are? When I play any of those I'm not skipping songs. Granted they are my favorite band (Zeppelin is a close 2nd) so I'm looking at them thru a different lens than you or others but I also think I'm objective enough to offer an honest opinion. It wasn't until Hot Space that I thought "That isn't the level of Queen that I know" and started cherry picking songs to listen off the album.

 
Led Zeppelin II (1969)

Side One

Whole Lotta Love

What Is and What Should Never Be

The Lemon Song

Thank You

Side Two

Heartbreaker

Living Loving Maid (She’s Just a Woman) 

Ramble On

Moby ****

Bring It On Home

I was a bit out of my comfort zone with Rush; not so much these guys as I listened to them incessantly back in the day and sometimes still do. The only question in my mind was which album to bring up first. I chose this one because, IMO, it’s nearly flawless. I’m not going to attempt to compare it to their other great records (though by all means I invite anyone who wants to do just that). I just happen to adore every song listed above and that’s enough for me. If I had to choose a favorite? Heartbreaker. Might be my #1 guitar riff ever. So good.   

 
I’m not sure but I think that Moby **** may have begun the concert drum solo (in which the band walks off the stage and lets the drummer do his thing) that may have become a staple for many classic rock bands in the 70s. I’m chagrined to say I never saw Led Zeppelin live, but How the West Was Won features a 20 minute version of Moby ****. 

Bonham is obviously a very different sounding drummer than Peart. Personally I prefer Bonham but that’s obviously subjective and probably only because I’m more familiar and tend to be blues oriented. 

 
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timschochet said:
Led Zeppelin II (1969)

Side One

Whole Lotta Love

What Is and What Should Never Be

The Lemon Song

Thank You

Side Two

Heartbreaker

Living Loving Maid (She’s Just a Woman) 

Ramble On

Moby ****

Bring It On Home

I was a bit out of my comfort zone with Rush; not so much these guys as I listened to them incessantly back in the day and sometimes still do. The only question in my mind was which album to bring up first. I chose this one because, IMO, it’s nearly flawless. I’m not going to attempt to compare it to their other great records (though by all means I invite anyone who wants to do just that). I just happen to adore every song listed above and that’s enough for me. If I had to choose a favorite? Heartbreaker. Might be my #1 guitar riff ever. So good.   
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Without getting into the whole debate about whether they "stole" their music or not, Zepplin put out and amazing run of records during the brief time. For a band that many consider "hard rock" or even "metal" they sure had an awful lot of acoustic tunes and ballads.

Looking at the band as a whole - Zepplin is arguably the greatest collection of "parts" - meaning each member is very near the top of the list for what they do.

While I listened to a ton of LZ, and have always appreciated them I probably didn't do either enough.

 
One of the reviews I read refers to “What Is and What Should Never Be” and “Ramble On” as “sonic voyages”. I always group these two songs together, because both start with acoustic guitar, slow tempos, and Plant singing at a lower octave in the beginning, and then the chorus suddenly you get electric guitar, fast tempo, and Plant singing high (in more ways than one?) Obviously this sort of transition would set the pattern for some of their later masterpieces. 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Without getting into the whole debate about whether they "stole" their music or not, Zepplin put out and amazing run of records during the brief time. For a band that many consider "hard rock" or even "metal" they sure had an awful lot of acoustic tunes and ballads.

Looking at the band as a whole - Zepplin is arguably the greatest collection of "parts" - meaning each member is very near the top of the list for what they do.

While I listened to a ton of LZ, and have always appreciated them I probably didn't do either enough.
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How can you possibly listen to these guys enough? 

Of course they stole music. But what they did with it is distinctive. 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
For a band that many consider "hard rock" or even "metal" they sure had an awful lot of acoustic tunes and ballads.
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Some years ago I read an interview with Jimmy Page from 1970. One of the questions was who do you like to listen to, and he said Joni Mitchell. I found that very intriguing. But if you listen to an album like Ladies of the Canyon, and then listen to the acoustic songs on LZ II (and especially on LZ III) you can hear it. 

 
Obviously LZIV is a masterpice but LZII isn't far behind IMO. It's the fist LZ CD I bought so it has a special place in my heart. 

 
I like the previous albums being discussed but am just not a LZ fan. It's not the instrumentals, it's Plant whining like his balls are in a vice on nearly every song that makes me a hater. And yes, I know I am in the minority on this opinion.

 
timschochet said:
I’m not sure but I think that Moby **** may have begun the concert drum solo (in which the band walks off the stage and lets the drummer do his thing) that may have become a staple for many classic rock bands in the 70s.
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In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida came a couple of years earlier

 
Arizona Ron said:
My daughter likes a band called Greta Van Fleet.  They sound a lot like Led Zeppelin to me. I'm not mad about it though, I kinda like that there's rock bands still out there.  I'd love to see rock come back in a big way. 
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I think there was a thread about them (or some other new Zep soundalike) band a while ago.  They're OK but not Led Zeppelin.

They're better than Kingdom Come :shrug:

 
three distinct memories from LZ2:

- i got suspended from high school for it. apparently, there had been a ban placed on the Blind Faith, for the cover, (bringing your records to school was very much a thing then) and this, for the "squeeze me baby" lyric, album that i didnt know about - my cutting-early period had already begun - and a teacher sent me to the principal who bounced me for that and an extra day. i remember Cream's Wheels of Fire and Santana were the other albums i was carrying

- that yr i made a "utility" friend - this kid named Ratto - because his dad was an audiophile who had a special sound room and his folks were always out on weekend nites. thing was he wouldnt have parties, it had to be just you & Ratboy, but it was totally worth it to hear 100+ db of perfect fidelity on all one's favorite songs and actually play Beatles albums in reverse and tape it on reel2reel and ####. funny thing, he would pour an inch from all his folks liquor bottles into a Boy Scout canteen and (he didnt do drugs) we'd blast from that all night.

- my eldest cousin Charlie (a guy who has actually never worked because he's the one who really did mint-save all his baseball cards and DC1 comix) took me up to Montreal to see Led Zep in 1970. Couple minutes into Moby ****, Bonzo chucks his sticks and bare-hands his kit for 20 minutes til, red w blood, he passes out. dont think i've ever seen folks go as nuts as they did then.

 
Hammer of the Gods is an interesting read although some have said it's embellished on LZ's destructive road tour habits. In Chuck Klostermans book IV he wrote that he asked Robert Plant about the book while interviewing him for Spin Magazine, Plant replied that had never even read it!

I did see LZ live in the Big Sombrero in 1977. 2.5 songs that is- a torrential downpour came soon after the concert started and the band left the stage. A riot ensued on the ground level and the cops beat the fans off the field in riot gear (I was thankfully sitting in the stands with my friends). Big headlines in the Tampa Tribune the next day, "Led Zeppelin will never be invited to Tampa again!"

 
LZ II was the first album I ever bought.  The old Treasure Island store on S. 27th St. in Milwaukee was ground zero for my lifetime obsession.

The year was 1970.  I was nine years old and had some Xmas money burning a hole in my pocket.  It wasn't that I was a particularly cool child but I'd heard "Whole Lotta Love" earlier that day on American Bandstand and kind of liked it.  Under slightly different circumstances, I could have just as easily walked out of the store with a 1910 Fruitgum Company album under my arm.

 
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