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griffin6687

Khalil Mack back to DE?

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Being this is the most recent version of this topic and I don't care to search for which of the previous is more relevant, I will chime in that the switch to a 4-3 scheme under Gruden should solidify Mack as a DE once again.

But the key here is always paying attention to the Rotoworld depth chart designations. They tell you in advance what MFL will do.

Admittedly they inexplicably changed Mack from LB to DE and back to LB last summer. But I wouldn't expect it to happen again prior to this season.

Edited by J Giles Band

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8 hours ago, J Giles Band said:

Being this is the most recent version of this topic and I don't care to search for which of the previous is more relevant, I will chime in that the switch to a 4-3 scheme under Gruden should solidify Mack as a DE once again.

But the key here is always paying attention to the Rotoworld depth chart designations. They tell you in advance what MFL will do.

Admittedly they inexplicably changed Mack from LB to DE and back to LB last summer. But I wouldn't expect it to happen again prior to this season.

It wasn't really inexplicable, they pretty much told us they were going to do it.  It was about Pagano's presence and high level of influence and the (relatively more) success their D had with him at OLB.  They did move Mack around a lot, and while he played a lot with his hand in the dirt he was also standing up quite a bit.  Roto knew that and posted an in-depth discussion/explanation about it and we all saw that coming in May of last year (or should have):

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/754691-lets-talk-khalil-mack-and-a-switch-back-to-lber/?do=findComment&comment=19963603

It's kind of a good thing to search for what's most relevant, there's important info in some of these threads.

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16 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

It wasn't really inexplicable, they pretty much told us they were going to do it.  It was about Pagano's presence and high level of influence and the (relatively more) success their D had with him at OLB.  They did move Mack around a lot, and while he played a lot with his hand in the dirt he was also standing up quite a bit.  Roto knew that and posted an in-depth discussion/explanation about it and we all saw that coming in May of last year (or should have):

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/754691-lets-talk-khalil-mack-and-a-switch-back-to-lber/?do=findComment&comment=19963603

It's kind of a good thing to search for what's most relevant, there's important info in some of these threads.

Thanks for the suggestion. When time permits, that is great. Don't always have that luxury.

But I think you may have missed my point on the Rotoworld change, then change back, then change again. We all knew Mack would be moving around in the defense. Every 3-4 can morph into a 4-3 or 4-man front on obvious passing downs, nickle, etc. So even though the Raiders were using a 3-4, everyone knew Mack would have opportunities to rush the passer with his hand in the dirt. What we didn't know for certain was what % of time that would be. And apparently neither did Rotoworld, or at least they couldn't make up their minds on it.

The smart thing to do would have been to avoid making any position change for Mack until we (they) had a better grasp on what reality would be instead of flip flopping back and forth. My qualm was not with the eventual position designation (although others, including Football Guys certainly had a problem with it as they never changed Mack to LB in the first place), it was with not waiting to make a choice until there was clarity and then sticking with it.

Ultimately, the point I was trying to make to the OP was to pay attention to the Rotoworld depth charts. They are your guide as to what MFL will eventually decide on positions. That and let's give Rotoworld the benefit of the doubt they won't repeat what they did last summer.

Edited by J Giles Band

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6 hours ago, J Giles Band said:

Thanks for the suggestion. When time permits, that is great. Don't always have that luxury.

But I think you may have missed my point on the Rotoworld change, then change back, then change again. We all knew Mack would be moving around in the defense. Every 3-4 can morph into a 4-3 or 4-man front on obvious passing downs, nickle, etc. So even though the Raiders were using a 3-4, everyone knew Mack would have opportunities to rush the passer with his hand in the dirt. What we didn't know for certain was what % of time that would be. And apparently neither did Rotoworld, or at least they couldn't make up their minds on it.

The smart thing to do would have been to avoid making any position change for Mack until we (they) had a better grasp on what reality would be instead of flip flopping back and forth. My qualm was not with the eventual position designation (although others, including Football Guys certainly had a problem with it as they never changed Mack to LB in the first place), it was with not waiting to make a choice until there was clarity and then sticking with it.

Ultimately, the point I was trying to make to the OP was to pay attention to the Rotoworld depth charts. They are your guide as to what MFL will eventually decide on positions. That and let's give Rotoworld the benefit of the doubt they won't repeat what they did last summer.

But that is a reactionary measure and may put him behind his league-mates.  Whatever happens on the Roto depth charts ends up here almost immediately and in many cases is discussed prior to any change coming.  Mack was a DE in 2016 and the article I posted was from February 2017 effectively telling us well in advance he was going to change.  And the first topic I linked had information from Twitter that the initial 2018 Roto depth charts were a copy/paste error and Mack would indeed be a DE. 

As of March 29 Roto had changed him to LB (just like the February article portended), and on April 4th MFL followed suit.  They didn't put him back to DE after that, he remained at LB from then on.  They make changes based on what they see on the field.  It would be worse if they "waited to make a choice" until the day before the season started if there was clarity in March.  I wouldn't want to be ambushed in August knowing I had to go get a new starter at DE, I want to know as soon as they do and hopefully sooner than my league-mates do.

They just don't go back and forth during a preseason.  When the change is to a less advantageous position they tend to move quickly and when it's to a "better" designation they tend to be slower to make sure it's for sure - again, so they don't go back and forth and ruin peoples' day.  I haven't seen one case where they have changed the same player multiple times in the same offseason but I suppose it could happen if what they see on the field changes that quickly.

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You certainly seem more on top of Mack than I, and since he wasn't my player I will defer to what appears to be well chronicled. My recollection was different... thought Mack was changed multiple times last summer and listed as a DE on Rotoworld much later in the summer, but at this point it doesn't really matter.

We are in agreement that if they are going to make a positional switch, the sooner the better. But again, not my point. Was only referring to cases where they switch positions back and forth. And I 100% have seen that happen before (even if it wasn't the case with Mack).

Edited by J Giles Band

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37 minutes ago, JoeSteeler said:

Sounds like he is going to the Bears - as a LB or DE?

Kiss any shot at DE designation g'bye.

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Jesus H Christ please let this be too late and too ambiguous for Roto to change him now.

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Let's pretend he keeps the DE tag. Does this bump his value up, down, or is it a lateral move? 

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MyFantasyLeague.com‏ @MyFantasyLeague

In risposta a @IDPSharks e @ano112318

Last position update coming tomorrow/Monday. Looks like he will be a LB

07:15 - 1 set 2018

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2 hours ago, Young 8 said:

MyFantasyLeague.com‏ @MyFantasyLeague

In risposta a @IDPSharks e @ano112318

Last position update coming tomorrow/Monday. Looks like he will be a LB

07:15 - 1 set 2018

MFL doesn't do their own designations, this doesn't scare me one bit.  Now if that answer comes from Roto I'm crying.

Interestingly, he's not on either depth chart in Roto.  His player page lists him as defensive lineman for Oakland.

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59 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

MFL doesn't do their own designations, this doesn't scare me one bit.  Now if that answer comes from Roto I'm crying.

Interestingly, he's not on either depth chart in Roto.  His player page lists him as defensive lineman for Oakland.

You saying you think MFL leagues may still have him as a dL all year?

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2 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

MFL doesn't do their own designations, this doesn't scare me one bit.  Now if that answer comes from Roto I'm crying.

Interestingly, he's not on either depth chart in Roto.  His player page lists him as defensive lineman for Oakland.

Rotoworld has already made the switch. Mack is listed as an OLB on their depth chart, as expected, in the Bears 3-4. The MFL update on Monday should synch to this.

Terrible luck for Mack owners but better to know ASAP.

Edited by J Giles Band
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19 minutes ago, J Giles Band said:

Rotoworld has already made the switch. Mack is listed as an OLB on their depth chart, as expected, in the Bears 3-4. The MFL update on Monday should synch to this.

Terrible luck for Mack owners but better to know ASAP.

yep - done deal at rotoworld

Khalil Mack | Linebacker | #52

Team: Chicago Bears

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1 hour ago, matttyl said:

You saying you think MFL leagues may still have him as a dL all year?

Rotoworld has now changed him to LB and MFL runs the last update  on Monday. No way he stays at DE

Edited by JoeSteeler
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26 minutes ago, J Giles Band said:

Rotoworld has already made the switch. Mack is listed as an OLB on their depth chart, as expected, in the Bears 3-4. The MFL update on Monday should synch to this.

Terrible luck for Mack owners but better to know ASAP.

Now, yep.  They had not as of my original post.

Excuse me while I go cry in a corner, I literally just traded for Mack.

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3 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

Now, yep.  They had not as of my original post.

Excuse me while I go cry in a corner, I literally just traded for Mack.

It's not ideal, but let's not overstate the calamity either: he's going to eat. Wait, I'm a Packers fan...I'll be over here in the other corner... :cry:

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4 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

Now, yep.  They had not as of my original post.

Excuse me while I go cry in a corner, I literally just traded for Mack.

Sorry man. He was a free agent in our league and went for a premium in the auction this year. More than I wanted to spend had he been signed and in camp with the Raiders even. That said, the holdout and the Raiders odd stance dealing with him gave me pause as I feared this could happen (being traded to a 3-4 team).

Stinks for everyone involved for it to happen this late. I feel terrible for the team who paid the premium in the auction thinking he would be a DE.

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4 hours ago, onionsack said:

It's not ideal, but let's not overstate the calamity either: he's going to eat. Wait, I'm a Packers fan...I'll be over here in the other corner... :cry:

He may eat, but his 11.5 PPG will make him about LB30 while those same 11.5 PPG would make him DL1.  The calamity is real.

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23 minutes ago, KellysHeroes said:

This is why i will never invest in DE and will sell as soon as one on my squad becomes valuable

I think this just reinforces why depth is so important at the position. Have to have the ammo available to handle these changes when they happen. Then deal with it. Then try to find the next lb to de reclass to reload. 

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13 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

I think this just reinforces why depth is so important at the position. Have to have the ammo available to handle these changes when they happen. Then deal with it. Then try to find the next lb to de reclass to reload. 

This is huge, and getting them early.  I should have used one of my last off season roster spots to grab Chandler Jones last year (instead of rostering TWO kickers).  Would have cost me nothing.  Instead I had to trade back into the 2nd round of the rookie/FA draft (using a future 1st) to get him.

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23 hours ago, matttyl said:

Back at LB in my MFL league.

:rant:

 

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On 9/3/2018 at 11:41 AM, Alex P Keaton said:

Logical solution for folks who don't like this:  change your league rules to have a hybrid DE/OLB position.

That's not why we don't like it.  Any donkey can get into a league like you suggest, sort by points, and go hit the wire/draft/whatever.  What we here in this forum are looking for is the next step - figuring out who's currently undervalued, making informed decisions based on intelligent discussions, and getting a leg up on our opponents because we were bold/prepared enough to make the move early.

The Internet is the worst thing that happened to FF.  There are no more sleepers, there are no more surprises.  Everyone has a WDIS thread or an app telling them who to pick up or an expert podcast that they listen to, click three buttons, and end up with Tyreek Hill through pure BS luck.

IDP is the last bastion of the informed FF player and position designation is one of the few real tricks we have left.  I wouldn't even bother playing in a league where someone can just snag every talented player and let the scoring system do their work for them.  I got a couple of huge advantages because I added Chandler Jones and Robert Quinn last year - I don't want to give that up.  I paid for what turned out to be a wrong decision on Mack - not a ton based on the price I paid but hugely in terms of opportunity cost.  That's what I want - rewarded when I'm right, penalized when I'm wrong.

Even worse about this whole thing is that I am a raging Raider fan so not only do I lose Mack's scoring, I lose my favorite Raiders.  At least it wasn't to the Stealers or the Patriots.

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On 9/2/2018 at 8:15 AM, onionsack said:

It's not ideal, but let's not overstate the calamity either: he's going to eat. Wait, I'm a Packers fan...I'll be over here in the other corner... :cry:

:banned:

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