Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Sign in to follow this  
SaintsInDome2006

The Case Against the President: Emoluments, Trump's Finances, Taxes & Foundation

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Mookie said:

And yet, this is no big deal to his supporters.  Trump IS the swamp.

He seems bloated though, not drained

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trump attorneys warn accounting firm not to hand over financial records

Quote

The president’s attorneys urged Mazars USA to not comply with an imminent Democratic subpoena.

President Donald Trump’s attorneys are warning of potential legal action if an accounting firm turns over a decade of the president’s financial records to the House Oversight and Reform Committee.

Trump attorneys William S. Consovoy and Stefan Passantino are urging Mazars USA not to comply with a subpoena that Oversight Chairman Elijah Cummings (D-Md.) plans to issue on Monday for Trump’s financial documents, calling it a politically motivated scheme to take down the president.

...The attorneys said they were formally putting Mazars ”on notice” — an implicit threat of legal action. They also urged Bernstein to hold off on providing the documents to Cummings until the subpoena can be litigated in court, suggesting that a protracted legal battle is likely to ensue.

...

Last month, the committee formally requested that Mazars turn over 10 years of Trump’s financial records, related specifically to the Trump Organization, the president's revocable trust and other subsidiaries.

In response, Mazars asked for a so-called friendly subpoena so that it could comply. Cummings told the firm that it was seeking the documents to corroborate the testimony of Michael Cohen, the president’s former attorney and fixer, who alleged that Trump artificially inflated and deflated the value of his assets for his personal benefit.

Consovoy and Passantino questioned the committee’s legal authority to conduct such an investigation.

...In a separate letter to Cummings, Consovoy and Passantino echoed Republicans’ criticism of the Mazars subpoena. ...

 

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

Trump’s lawyers threatening people to do something illegal.  This seems so familiar. 

These are the sort of crappy threats Michael Cohen described only Trump is threatening the IRS and his own accountants.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>>The numbers show that in 1985, Mr. Trump reported losses of $46.1 million from his core businesses — largely casinos, hotels and retail space in apartment buildings. They continued to lose money every year, totaling $1.17 billion in losses for the decade.

In fact, year after year, Mr. Trump appears to have lost more money than nearly any other individual American taxpayer, The Times found when it compared his results with detailed information the I.R.S. compiles on an annual sampling of high-income earners. His core business losses in 1990 and 1991 — more than $250 million each year — were more than double those of the nearest taxpayers in the I.R.S. information for those years.<<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love how he made money scamming the markets pretending he was going to "buy" a company and then selling his stock when it went up. :lol: Then the market caught on and he lost money. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

I love how he made money scamming the markets pretending he was going to "buy" a company and then selling his stock when it went up. :lol: Then the market caught on and he lost money. 

Once a conman, always a conman.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

>>The numbers show that in 1985, Mr. Trump reported losses of $46.1 million from his core businesses — largely casinos, hotels and retail space in apartment buildings. They continued to lose money every year, totaling $1.17 billion in losses for the decade.

In fact, year after year, Mr. Trump appears to have lost more money than nearly any other individual American taxpayer, The Times found when it compared his results with detailed information the I.R.S. compiles on an annual sampling of high-income earners. His core business losses in 1990 and 1991 — more than $250 million each year — were more than double those of the nearest taxpayers in the I.R.S. information for those years.<<

When he published Art of the Deal in 1987, he was over fifty million in debt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

>>The numbers show that in 1985, Mr. Trump reported losses of $46.1 million from his core businesses — largely casinos, hotels and retail space in apartment buildings. They continued to lose money every year, totaling $1.17 billion in losses for the decade.

In fact, year after year, Mr. Trump appears to have lost more money than nearly any other individual American taxpayer, The Times found when it compared his results with detailed information the I.R.S. compiles on an annual sampling of high-income earners. His core business losses in 1990 and 1991 — more than $250 million each year — were more than double those of the nearest taxpayers in the I.R.S. information for those years.<<

So what does this prove to you?:popcorn:

  • Thinking 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, GoBirds said:

So what does this prove to you?

Well for one I think it's undeniable proof that he was running a grift on the American people about his deal making and money making skills.

But for another I think it shows underlying motives in several of the investigations. The inauguration fund, the foundation, emoluments, quid pro quo claims (take your pick), his filings with the US government, and Russia, say what you will but this was a man in severe need of cash flow and in debt to many people and maybe institutions and foreign actors. For the last two we need to see more to determine who he owed - and owes - money to.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

I love how he made money scamming the markets pretending he was going to "buy" a company and then selling his stock when it went up. :lol: Then the market caught on and he lost money. 

Clearly he's no Gordon Gekko but you just KNOW he wanted to be :lol: 

 

Edited by The Commish
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Well for one I think it's undeniable proof that he was running a grift on the American people about his deal making and money making skills.

But for another I think it shows underlying motives in several of the investigations. The inauguration fund, the foundation, emoluments, quid pro quo claims (take your pick), his filings with the US government, and Russia, say what you will but this was a man in severe need of cash flow and in debt to many people and maybe institutions and foreign actors. For the last two we need to see more to determine who he owed - and owes - money to.

If you can’t see the full picture how do you know how he’s done overall? Real estate is a roller coaster, it’s not unusual if you have a bad investment to take the hit/loss on it and move on as it provides the tax benefit of a loss carry forward. Just because bad investments are dumped and show on the tax return how are you accounting for the good investments that weren’t unloaded and don’t show a gain/loss on the tax return? 

I’m just curious of how you are quantifying his deal making/business on such a small snapshot and not a full picture?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Well for one I think it's undeniable proof that he was running a grift on the American people about his deal making and money making skills.

But for another I think it shows underlying motives in several of the investigations. The inauguration fund, the foundation, emoluments, quid pro quo claims (take your pick), his filings with the US government, and Russia, say what you will but this was a man in severe need of cash flow and in debt to many people and maybe institutions and foreign actors. For the last two we need to see more to determine who he owed - and owes - money to.

meh...that ship sailed about three weeks into his tenure as President and was completely solidified and wrapped up observing his tariff approach and his NK dealings

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, GoBirds said:

If you can’t see the full picture how do you know how he’s done overall? Real estate is a roller coaster, it’s not unusual if you have a bad investment to take the hit/loss on it and move on as it provides the tax benefit of a loss carry forward. Just because bad investments are dumped and show on the tax return how are you accounting for the good investments that weren’t unloaded and don’t show a gain/loss on the tax return? 

I’m just curious of how you are quantifying his deal making/business on such a small snapshot and not a full picture?

That's fair. I think that's an argument for providing the schedules behind these returns plus his more recent returns.

I think another way to do this is to look at comps of businessmen who have similar losses over the years. I'd be really surprised if a comp exists. who lends money to someone like this? Who lets them run companies, besides family members?

I think I'm being fair and objective here. We're talking about average losses of $100 million per year over ten years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, The Commish said:

meh...that ship sailed about three weeks into his tenure as President and was completely solidified and wrapped up observing his tariff approach and his NK dealings

Ha, well proof/evidence for some people, you, and other people, are two different things as I think you're well aware.

Same guy is pushing the 2nd biggest deficit in history right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

That's fair. I think that's an argument for providing the schedules behind these returns plus his more recent returns.

I think another way to do this is to look at comps of businessmen who have similar losses over the years. I'd be really surprised if a comp exists. who lends money to someone like this? Who lets them run companies, besides family members?

I think I'm being fair and objective here. We're talking about average losses of $100 million per year over ten years.

Is that bad?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Ha, well proof/evidence for some people, you, and other people, are two different things as I think you're well aware.

Same guy is pushing the 2nd biggest deficit in history right now.

I think all we really need to know is that if he'd just invested his inheritance in index funds he'd be about where he claims to be today.  Though, of course, that claim is to be taken with a grain of salt.  I am sure you'll get a lot of derping and "we don't know everything" OR "duh...this isn't new" shtick.  The former is the most honest of the two, though it's not necessary to have every single piece of the puzzle in place to see the picture.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has he started tweeting about this?  I suspect he'll be up all hours of the night tonight.  This is the kind of thing that will actually affect him enough to lose sleep over it and attack.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Well for one I think it's undeniable proof that he was running a grift on the American people about his deal making and money making skills.

But for another I think it shows underlying motives in several of the investigations. The inauguration fund, the foundation, emoluments, quid pro quo claims (take your pick), his filings with the US government, and Russia, say what you will but this was a man in severe need of cash flow and in debt to many people and maybe institutions and foreign actors. For the last two we need to see more to determine who he owed - and owes - money to.

You do realize that this loss was 30+ years ago?

I predict lots of people who get their taxes done at the Walmart Jackson Hewitt booth are going to suddenly be tax experts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/7/2019 at 8:00 PM, Bozeman Bruiser said:

You do realize that this loss was 30+ years ago?

I predict lots of people who get their taxes done at the Walmart Jackson Hewitt booth are going to suddenly be tax experts.

1985-1994, so up to 25 years ago.

You have a fair argument for why experts should look at it, real ones. - Boze, $1 billion in the negative negative in 10 years. You want to argue the last 10 years before he got elected were better, ok. Maybe he became a better businessman? Maybe he had some turnaround?

As I understand it the 2005 1995, the infamous Maddow return, was the ideal year for Trump because that's the year he asked Deutsche Bank for a loan, and they would be giving him a good going over.

(eta, grr, happy to post the text for that if you don't have access, could be a while though...).

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Bozeman Bruiser said:

You do realize that this loss was 30+ years ago?

I predict lots of people who get their taxes done at the Walmart Jackson Hewitt booth are going to suddenly be tax experts.

It takes a special kind of condescension  to assume the American people can’t comprehend taxes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

That's fair. I think that's an argument for providing the schedules behind these returns plus his more recent returns.

I think another way to do this is to look at comps of businessmen who have similar losses over the years. I'd be really surprised if a comp exists. who lends money to someone like this? Who lets them run companies, besides family members?

I think I'm being fair and objective here. We're talking about average losses of $100 million per year over ten years.

I think the bolded is a good point and why this is a big waste of time we will never be able to quantify. While schedules will show the income for that year, how do you quantify the market value of the property at that time vs what it was acquired for etc. Then envision how many entities he has his hand in....then do we trust The NY Times(or whoever is delivering this “news”) to give us fair valuations of these in their write up? There’s just no way anything accurate comes from this, will just be skewed based on the agenda of who is writing the article. 

Edited by GoBirds

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

I think the bolded is a good point and why this is a big waste of time we will never be able to quantify. While schedules will show the income for that year, how do you quantify the market value of the property at that time vs what it was acquired for etc. Then envision how many entities he has his hand in....then do we trust The NY Times(or whoever is delivering this “news”) to give us fair valuations of these in their write up? There’s just no way anything accurate comes from this, will just be skewed based on the agenda of who is writing the article. 

Whelp there’s an easy way to solve that :shrug: 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Sammy3469 said:

Whelp there’s an easy way to solve that :shrug: 

Please explain in detail. 

  • Like 1
  • Laughing 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Please explain in detail. 

Pretty easy really...release his taxes :shrug: 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sammy3469 said:

Pretty easy really...release his taxes :shrug: 

Did you not read my posts above? That won’t give a clear picture. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

I think the bolded is a good point and why this is a big waste of time we will never be able to quantify. While schedules will show the income for that year, how do you quantify the market value of the property at that time vs what it was acquired for etc. Then envision how many entities he has his hand in....then do we trust The NY Times(or whoever is delivering this “news”) to give us fair valuations of these in their write up? There’s just no way anything accurate comes from this, will just be skewed based on the agenda of who is writing the article. 

IIRC Cohen said Trump was submitting different market values to lenders than what he was providing the IRS.

That's one reason Congress has asked for documentation from both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, SaintsInDome2006 said:

IIRC Cohen said Trump was submitting different market values to lenders than what he was providing the IRS.

That's one reason Congress has asked for documentation from both.

I get that it sounds devious but think about it.....your books used for your return have a book value based off what you paid for it. When getting a loan from a bank they base what they loan you off market value so if you’ve made a good investment and it’s worth more than you have in it obviously you will let them know and use market value. This is the norm not unusual. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Did you not read my posts above? That won’t give a clear picture. 

If you honestly believe someone can show year after year of losses on their taxes and experience massive gains in real estate value, whelp I got some prime Atlantic City casinos to sell you (and some prime fraudulent university IP addresses as well).

  • Laughing 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Sammy3469 said:

If you honestly believe someone can show year after year of losses on their taxes and experience massive gains in real estate value, whelp I got some prime Atlantic City casinos to sell you (and some prime fraudulent university IP addresses as well).

I’m pretty confident I don’t need lessons in real estate from you but thanks. If you do want to detail how you will provide a detailed view of his financial position from a handful of tax returns I’m happy to listen but assume you can’t and are part of the “we want tax returnz!” bunch since Russia didn’t pan out. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Trump’s dad had been a burger-flipper Donald would, at best, would have been assistant to the lead burger-flipper somewhere.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mnuchin gives private speech to Trump donors.

>>Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin addressed a group of top donors backing President Trump’s reelection Tuesday evening, making an unusual political appearance at a gathering that included industry executives his agency is tasked with regulating.<<

- Pretty much what Hillary and Bill were slated for.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

I’m pretty confident I don’t need lessons in real estate from you but thanks. If you do want to detail how you will provide a detailed view of his financial position from a handful of tax returns I’m happy to listen but assume you can’t and are part of the “we want tax returnz!” bunch since Russia didn’t pan out. 

Notice I didn’t say handful, I said all.  I’m perfectly aware LLCs can show pass-through losses with increasing real values In the short term.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

The newspaper said Trump posted losses in excess of $250 million in both 1990 and 1991, which appeared to be more than double any other individual U.S. taxpayer, based on IRS data.

 

:lmao: like this is “business as usual”.  How much did guys like Ted Turner or Bill Gates of Warren Buffett lose around that same time?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Mnuchin gives private speech to Trump donors.

>>Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin addressed a group of top donors backing President Trump’s reelection Tuesday evening, making an unusual political appearance at a gathering that included industry executives his agency is tasked with regulating.<<

- Pretty much what Hillary and Bill were slated for.

Reminds me of Fox News' obsession with Hillary's "Wall Street speeches"

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Sammy3469 said:

Notice I didn’t say handful, I said all.  I’m perfectly aware LLCs can show pass-through losses with increasing real values In the short term.

Which past presidents have provided all of their tax returns? 

You still haven’t explained how you will account for acquisition costs, fair market value, important info relative to the properties that don’t show up on a schedule on a personal return, among many other factors critical to determine a clear picture on his financial position?

If you don’t know what you are looking for demanding tax returns doesn’t seem to accomplish much.....and if there is no precedent for this amount of financial info being provided how can you set a new norm just because you don’t like him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, McJose said:

 Ted Turner or Bill Gates or Warren Buffett 

FTR, these aren’t good comparisons. 

Steve Wynn

Sheldon Adelson

Krikorian (developer of the MGM Grand at the time). 

These are Trump’s peers; they’re probably the guys you want to look at. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You gotta have faith in the con man to believe the lies and set aside the truth staring you in the face.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Which past presidents have provided all of their tax returns? 

You still haven’t explained how you will account for acquisition costs, fair market value, important info relative to the properties that don’t show up on a schedule on a personal return, among many other factors critical to determine a clear picture on his financial position?

If you don’t know what you are looking for demanding tax returns doesn’t seem to accomplish much.....and if there is no precedent for this amount of financial info being provided how can you set a new norm just because you don’t like him?

I agree with you GoBirds. I’ve never cared about seeing his taxes. I assume he’s a little bit dishonest, a little bit cut corners. If he had done something really bad he’d be in prison right now. The IRS has fried bigger fish than Trump. 

I know there are some people that buy into the Rachel Maddow theory that he borrowed money from Deutche, who gets their money from Russia, so Trump is a stooge of Russia. It’s a crackpot theory IMO. Deutchebanke does have ties to Russian oligarchs, and they probably laundered some of their money by helping Trump buy property. But these sort of shady deals are standard in the upscale real estate industry. Trump is not close to unique in this regard, and the idea that it came with political strings attached is silly IMO. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I agree with you GoBirds. I’ve never cared about seeing his taxes. I assume he’s a little bit dishonest, a little bit cut corners. If he had done something really bad he’d be in prison right now. The IRS has fried bigger fish than Trump. 

I know there are some people that buy into the Rachel Maddow theory that he borrowed money from Deutche, who gets their money from Russia, so Trump is a stooge of Russia. It’s a crackpot theory IMO. Deutchebanke does have ties to Russian oligarchs, and they probably laundered some of their money by helping Trump buy property. But these sort of shady deals are standard in the upscale real estate industry. Trump is not close to unique in this regard, and the idea that it came with political strings attached is silly IMO. 

Yep I think we are on the same page and your first paragraph nailed it. The bolded is what Maddow is selling these days, wow. :lmao:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I agree with you GoBirds. I’ve never cared about seeing his taxes. I assume he’s a little bit dishonest, a little bit cut corners. If he had done something really bad he’d be in prison right now. The IRS has fried bigger fish than Trump. 

I know there are some people that buy into the Rachel Maddow theory that he borrowed money from Deutche, who gets their money from Russia, so Trump is a stooge of Russia. It’s a crackpot theory IMO. Deutchebanke does have ties to Russian oligarchs, and they probably laundered some of their money by helping Trump buy property. But these sort of shady deals are standard in the upscale real estate industry. Trump is not close to unique in this regard, and the idea that it came with political strings attached is silly IMO. 

I like Birds’ & Sammy’s discussion, it had some insight. You’re in the biz, any views on property valuation and taking losses Vs what is reported to lenders?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I agree with you GoBirds. I’ve never cared about seeing his taxes. I assume he’s a little bit dishonest, a little bit cut corners. If he had done something really bad he’d be in prison right now. The IRS has fried bigger fish than Trump. 

I know there are some people that buy into the Rachel Maddow theory that he borrowed money from Deutche, who gets their money from Russia, so Trump is a stooge of Russia. It’s a crackpot theory IMO. Deutchebanke does have ties to Russian oligarchs, and they probably laundered some of their money by helping Trump buy property. But these sort of shady deals are standard in the upscale real estate industry. Trump is not close to unique in this regard, and the idea that it came with political strings attached is silly IMO. 

I wouldn't care much either IF HE WASN'T THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!!! 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.