IC FBGCav
Footballguy
You are correct it is not a political show but he has major podcast people on from both sides and they hate that. They are the partisan people. He calls out bs on both sides. One in 10 might be a political guest.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Thread (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
- Start date
NFL2DF
Footballguy
Apparently Tobias has access to the 4am talking points because that is the exact phrase that everyone was using in response to Shapiro's offer.
Bizarre.
Has there ever been anyone else in history who was told "you can't have an interview/debate on the air like normal people, you have to move to her district and run against her if you want a debate"?
This woman has gone on dozens of shows for interviews in the last month and nobody told the host they had to run for office if they wanted to ask her questions.
NFL2DF
Footballguy
Another person who obviously has no idea who Shapiro is he is just spouting off mindless nonsense.
Hint: Shapiro hates Trump. Shapiro is regarded as one of the most intelligent political debaters in America right now. Oh, and Shapiro hates Trump.
NFL2DF
Footballguy
Can't go 2 posts without using the phrase dog whistle.
Lemme guess, your next post is going to blame toxic masculinity?
NFL2DF
Footballguy
So you are calling anyone who thinks a civil debate is a good idea "the dumbest people in America"?
If I was a little ##### I would you report you for hate speech.
And provide one example of a person in the media who moved to someone else's district and ran for office just so they could have a debate.
I really hope you use toxic masculinity or racist in your next post so I can get BINGO
NFL2DF
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Looks like somebody picked out a thermos.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
That's not accurate to say he hates Trump.
Another person who obviously has no idea who Shapiro is he is just spouting off mindless nonsense.
Hint: Shapiro hates Trump. Shapiro is regarded as one of the most intelligent political debaters in America right now. Oh, and Shapiro hates Trump.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Dickies
Footballguy
The Ezra Klein podcast with Adam Davidson about Trump's corruption was really good too. MT posted a link in another thread.
Every time one of Trump's supporters says he's a successful businessman I think I'll link to the podcast
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/vox/the-ezra-klein-show/e/55606470
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Dickies
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Dickies
Footballguy
Literal socialism is really stupid and bad. But most of the things people label "socialism" these days don't really have much to do with socialism.
Last edited by a moderator:
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
How many Shapiro debates have you seen?
Shapiro is regarded as one of the most intelligent political debaters in America right now.
Koya
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
:subscribed:How many Shapiro debates have you seen?
Shapiro is regarded as one of the most intelligent political debaters in America right now.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
I watched the one where right wingers claimed he destroyed Maher. It wasn’t at all like they claimed.
Yes, but it's really stupid to run as a socialist, given how damaged the label is by real world socialism. I would never vote for someone claiming to be a Democratic Socialist, nor would I vote for a person claiming to be a Democratic Fascist. If people are so ignorant of the historical associations they conjure up, they are too stupid to vote for.
toshiba
Footballguy
Because I take the time to understand someone's politics more so than a label, I would potentially if their values align with mine.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Those terms can become normalized over time. More and more of us are very comfortable with the term "Democratic Socialist" and growing numbers of really stupid people wouldn't mind living in a fascist America and calling it as such.
The Commish
Footballguy
This is probablyt true for many. I wish people would get passed labels and look at the actual positions
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
How many Shapiro debates have you seen?
Another person who obviously has no idea who Shapiro is he is just spouting off mindless nonsense.
Hint: Shapiro hates Trump. Shapiro is regarded as one of the most intelligent political debaters in America right now. Oh, and Shapiro hates Trump.
Oh, I look at the positions also. So far it's been pretty straightforward. I hate the positions of everyone that has identified as a Democratic Socialist, and I'm sure I will hate the positions of anyone that identifies as a Democratic Fascist.
The Commish
Footballguy
toshiba
Footballguy
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I agree but why then use the term socialist? Would any say..Democratic-Communist? We have democrats, progressive democrats, democrats-socialists. Just run as a democrat or is that not possible anymore?
The Commish
Footballguy
I suspect it's because "Democrat" these days is essentially traditional GOP lite (not Trump's version of the GOP). Pretty middle of the road and closer to big business than points in the past. There are two groups in the party now and one group wants to distinguish itself from the other. The funniest part of this whole "controversy" is no one's seemed to have a problem with medicare, public health clinics or public K-12 education right on down the line. All of which are examples of democratic socialism.
Last edited by a moderator:
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Plenty of parties in other countries use the word socialism to describe themselves as left-leaning, I don't think it has the same negative connotation as Communist for most people. Running as a Democrat doesn't really identify what wing of the Democratic Party you identify with, people like Bernie Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez want to make clear that they aren't fully aligned with the more centrist Dems.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I love the classic bully tactic. She won't do because she knows she would lose or is afraid or guilty.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
You can add police, fire departments, public roads, military. For some reason though people have issues when it comes to universal healthcare and higher education.
Koya
Footballguy
Including the position that we need to relook our priories considering how much we spread on the military and associated policies that engrain us in constant conflict while doing a pretty crap job here at home on any number of fronts (healthcare, education to know two)?
I mean, you don't need to be a socialist to at least agree in that, even if the Strategies by which to accomplish such a change of priority could look starkly different between you and they.
The Commish
Footballguy
I don't like the term Democratic Socialism. Wikipedia defines it as basically economic socialism combined with democracy (to distinguish it from the Marx-Lenin version that rejects democracy). That definition is probably based on how the term is typically used in Europe. The American version, as popularized by Sanders (?), doesn't seem to embrace economic socialism to a very large extent.
In general, socialism is the idea that central planning is preferable to blind market forces (and that the means of production should therefore be owned publicly and organized by the workers). A variant is market socialism, which likes the pricing aspect of markets, just not the private profit aspect. Think of it as public or social ownership of the means of production operating within a market system for buying and selling inputs and outputs -- like a somewhat normal economy except that all businesses are non-profits.
Some of Bernie's preferred policies kind of fit the idea of market socialism (Medicare for all), but I don't get the idea that he wants to overhaul the entire economy in that vein. (Just 1/6 of it.)
When Jon Lovett asked Ocasio-Cortez how Democratic Socialism differed from what regular Democrats believe, she didn't have an answer. (I don't remember her exact words -- something along the lines of having to be pragmatic -- but I remember that her answer was non-responsive.)
I think if someone is going to adopt that label, she should be able to talk about what it means in Europe, how it's different here, how it differs from regular socialism and market socialism, and how it differs from what other Democrats believe.
In general, socialism is the idea that central planning is preferable to blind market forces (and that the means of production should therefore be owned publicly and organized by the workers). A variant is market socialism, which likes the pricing aspect of markets, just not the private profit aspect. Think of it as public or social ownership of the means of production operating within a market system for buying and selling inputs and outputs -- like a somewhat normal economy except that all businesses are non-profits.
Some of Bernie's preferred policies kind of fit the idea of market socialism (Medicare for all), but I don't get the idea that he wants to overhaul the entire economy in that vein. (Just 1/6 of it.)
When Jon Lovett asked Ocasio-Cortez how Democratic Socialism differed from what regular Democrats believe, she didn't have an answer. (I don't remember her exact words -- something along the lines of having to be pragmatic -- but I remember that her answer was non-responsive.)
I think if someone is going to adopt that label, she should be able to talk about what it means in Europe, how it's different here, how it differs from regular socialism and market socialism, and how it differs from what other Democrats believe.
Last edited by a moderator:
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Not to get too defensive of this particular candidate, but there seems to be something in this thread and the Warren thread that seems a bit off.
So we have a President who can barely read, but a young Congressional hopeful who would be charged with representing her district in Queens needs to be able to define and speak to the global nuances of a political label that has far broader implications than representing her district faithfully?
I would agree that if she was a Presidential candidate, she should be able to speak more eloquently to those details, and I believe she will get there with experience. But on the other hand, we have a President who isn't clear on what constitutes the United Kingdom, so it seems a bit suspect that her bar should be set that high, given the office she is seeking, and the current state of standards being set by the highest office in the land.
TL
R: We're holding people to standards now?
So we have a President who can barely read, but a young Congressional hopeful who would be charged with representing her district in Queens needs to be able to define and speak to the global nuances of a political label that has far broader implications than representing her district faithfully?
I would agree that if she was a Presidential candidate, she should be able to speak more eloquently to those details, and I believe she will get there with experience. But on the other hand, we have a President who isn't clear on what constitutes the United Kingdom, so it seems a bit suspect that her bar should be set that high, given the office she is seeking, and the current state of standards being set by the highest office in the land.
TL
R: We're holding people to standards now?
Last edited by a moderator:
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
..and ironically the people that seem to say "socialist" like it's a swear word are the one's that claim to be the biggest backers of these examples.
Would it take less time to list the programs we have that aren't socialist in nature?
Amused to Death
Footballguy
These anti-Socialists must be really pissed about the new farm subsidies due to the tariffs. Are we still giving nearly 5 Billion a year in oil subsidies? Talk about socialist policies. Can't fund health care though - socialism!!one!
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
So when JohnnyU says that America between the coasts reject these socialist ideas, I assume he means they want to do away with all these programs to, right?
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Insomniac
Footballguy
You just don't understand. Subsidies for poor people are bad, subsidies for rich corporations are good. One is welfare, the other is just a necessary part of (crony) capitalism.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Anti-socialist checking in. I hate farm subsidies, tariffs, and oil subsidies. HTH.Amused to Death said:
If you're asking whether we should hold Congressional hopefuls to a higher bar than the one our current President is able to clear, the answer is a resounding yes. We should.Grace Under Pressure said:
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Stop setting the bar at Trump.Grace Under Pressure said:Not to get too defensive of this particular candidate, but there seems to be something in this thread and the Warren thread that seems a bit off.
So we have a President who can barely read, but a young Congressional hopeful who would be charged with representing her district in Queens needs to be able to define and speak to the global nuances of a political label that has far broader implications than representing her district faithfully?
I would agree that if she was a Presidential candidate, she should be able to speak more eloquently to those details, and I believe she will get there with experience. But on the other hand, we have a President who isn't clear on what constitutes the United Kingdom, so it seems a bit suspect that her bar should be set that high, given the office she is seeking, and the current state of standards being set by the highest office in the land.
TL
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
We’ve been calling European systems Democratic Socialist governments for decades now without confusing anyone over who controls the means of production.
I don’t think it’s hard to understand that it favors more wealth distribution and a more substantial safety net than that favored by the modern Democratic Party.
I don’t think it’s hard to understand that it favors more wealth distribution and a more substantial safety net than that favored by the modern Democratic Party.
Similar threads
